Because priest is op and annoying. Before he was able to win with value and time. Now he is able to win only playing in the curve. It is not slow for priest. You can receive an OTK in turn 10. A priest can discover the spell in its own deck.
I always disliked uncounterable instant kill mechanics, and no - I don't consider highrolling your Mutanus to be a viable counter.
Of course this is the perspective of someone who likes long control vs. control games, where managing your resources and value cards is the name of the game. Knowing that you will now also play against the Xyrella-clock that will get you eventually might just ruin my favorite Warrior vs. Priest games.
At least it won't be viable in Wild, as you can't step into *any* game without 1/4 of your cards being pure disruption at this point.
Knowing that you will now also play against the Xyrella-clock that will get you eventually might just ruin my favorite Warrior vs. Priest
As a player on the other side of that match up, trust me when I say that I would have loved a mutanus back when I was getting ETC'd or Silas'd to death. Of course, it would have been a more effective counter in those cases since there are more minion combo pieces to hit.
There is absolutely no reason to freak out over a 46 mana combo that rewards you with a 7/7 taunt, requires you to play cards in a specific order, to shuffle your win condition and to draw and play it manually.
It's a fun card, it will destroy bad decks and greedy bastards on expansion launch, and that's it.
I'm much more freaked out about the mage and warlock questlines, these are insanely easy to complete and the reward is incredible.
And yeah Celestial Druid messes with more game plans than you imagine.
It's not a 46 mana combo lol, you're just playing your deck - playing cards you'd play anyway when you'd want to play them. The ordering only has to be semi-specific. Also, it's a 1 card combo in the sense that you only have to fit 1 card into basically any control list. You don't have to waste hand space holding onto combo pieces or waste tempo tutoring/drawing for combo pieces, or waste more tempo setting up your combo (a 5 mana 7/7 taunt is not a waste of tempo). And yes, it obviously gets countered by celestial druid, but again, it only takes up one slot in your deck so you can easily build in multiple win conditions.
In a vacuum, this card is stupidly OP, but it will be completely wasted on a class that is worse than it's ever been since GvG in a completely aggro dominated meta. That's probably for the best though - if this was playable it would be horribly boring to play and horribly annoying to play against.
For one mana, even if you only discover one card, is a decent value. Discovering more than one card is a premium. The win condition at the end is just gravy. It will infrequently win games all on its own. That won't stop deck designers from trying. In Wild Priest can stall, delay and survive with aplomb.
Just means priest can beat control warrior.... just play normal priest game. About 1 in 50 it will work on curve. Priest doesn't play on curve, and if they try they are probably dead by turn 10.
The Priest questline is simply an alternative to running C'Thun as a tool against control mirrors. C'Thun is generally bad (outside of said control mirrors) as it dilutes your deck with 4 mediocre/bad cards. The questline forces you to run some 5- and 8-drops that you normally also wouldn't, again making your deck slightly worse. It also makes your mulligan worse in matchups where you don't care about finishing it. They are both very slow. The main advantage of the questline is that it is more reliable than C'Thun in those control mirrors (in terms of killing the opponent).
However: it's not an auto-win vs control decks. Other control decks can run disruption cards, their own OTK-type win conditions, etc...it will only be an auto-win vs ultra-greedy, sub-optimal, 'fun' decks.
When the community says please give priest a win condition I don't think this is what they meant. That said, this doesn't help priest as much as people think it does.
While obviously curvestone could occur with a turn 10 kill, aggro has been rampant and not enough has been seen to show it going in a control direction. This card doesn't really help priest win the aggro matchup, it's obviously just in line in a combo matchup, and in theory this would win in a control matchup. However if the quest existed in a control matchup you'd save mutanus for the turn the quest ended to eat xyrella, or in warlocks case Tickitus could just burn the shard itself. While this could be good I don't see it being nearly the gamebreaker people think it is.
Honestly at best a 2 star with current kits, and i'd bet it gets nerfed if it is too strong anyway.
I mean priest... doesn't even really struggle against aggro that much. They have lots of efficient removal tools and healing.
But seriously: at what point are people going to start reading the quest rewards for each step along the way?
Drawing 2 cards just from playing a single 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 cost cards is really good.
For me the problem is that several of the other lines (warlock and Pali) consistently complete turn 4 for a 7/7 with a game altering effect. Try controlling a paladin that spams 1 cost stuff early (Pali has tons of generation), gets a 7/7 turn 5 that turns any silver hand recruits into 3/3 (and likely has two since the deck plays our 1 cost your next hero power costs 0 friend as part of the chain completion...) then spawns 2 3/3 minions per turn for two mana, has spell control like omy and tons of low cost cards that now constantly fill the board with upgraded 3/3 minions. Please tell me how a priest replies turn 6 and 7 (with any hope of staying on curve, not burning out of cards, and not needing a literally perfect hand to survive. Forget completing the questline, priest is happy to MAKE IT to turn 8 (especially because they lost a card on the quest line, and only got it back if they played on curve 2,3,4 which again requires either perfect draws, of has allowed the paladin to melt your face turn 5.
Dont even get me started on warlock. Darkglare warlocks can get their quest line completed turn 4. Which means a turn 5 play 7/7. that will allow the warlock to low cost burn you to death by latest turn 6 (turn 7 without coin - even reno priest may not have time to even play reno - and even if you do, the warlock is drawing cards by burning you, so you are still gonna melt, even back at 30). Darkglare makes most of these plays free (or 1 mana) and many of the early ones don't even put the warlock at risk for aggro (lose 5 life, gain 5 armor etc.). Literally (worst case warlock goes first): turn 1, questline, turn 2 hero power, turn 3 dark glare + 2/1 draw and lose 2 life + 1/1 hero power free + hero power. Quest line completes both heros now at 27. Play lose 5 life gain 5 armor, play 3/2 lose 3 life. Quest line 2 completed play now stands opponent at 24 warlock at 25 with 2 armor, warlock with a 2/1, 1/1, 1/1, 3/2 in play, one mana open, 3 cards in hand. Assuming those 3 cards aren't crazy lucky (if they are, the quest line finishes here), the warlock can easily finish with a draw and self burn turn 4 (even if dark glare dies). Now the turn 5 7/7 is happening. The warlock is above 15 (probably well above counting armor) and had tons of early minions so is exceedingly unlikely to have been overrun by aggro, and can, turn 6, draw and burn through their deck at the other players expense (with coin, I've actually seen warlocks play the 7/7 turn 4 and kill me turn 5).
Anyone who thinks a questline that requires 7 distinct plays totalling 35 mana with restrictions on the timing of the plays (you need to draw and cast your 2,3,4 costs BEFORE the 5,6 costs count, so if you don't get fansastic luck and get a hand perfectly on curve (or play a discover deck and get reasonably lucky) you will be foddering plays saving yourself that dont count for the quest. Even when the quest completes all you get is a 7/7 fof 5 with the chance to draw a block able win condition (mutanus eats the 7/7, tickatus kills the shard, omy, counterspell, illucia, the list goes on) that costs 10 mana....
The questline is hot trash in wild and at best middle of the road in standard.
When the community says please give priest a win condition I don't think this is what they meant. That said, this doesn't help priest as much as people think it does.
While obviously curvestone could occur with a turn 10 kill, aggro has been rampant and not enough has been seen to show it going in a control direction. This card doesn't really help priest win the aggro matchup, it's obviously just in line in a combo matchup, and in theory this would win in a control matchup. However if the quest existed in a control matchup you'd save mutanus for the turn the quest ended to eat xyrella, or in warlocks case Tickitus could just burn the shard itself. While this could be good I don't see it being nearly the gamebreaker people think it is.
Honestly at best a 2 star with current kits, and i'd bet it gets nerfed if it is too strong anyway.
I mean priest... doesn't even really struggle against aggro that much. They have lots of efficient removal tools and healing.
But seriously: at what point are people going to start reading the quest rewards for each step along the way?
Drawing 2 cards just from playing a single 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 cost cards is really good.
It's not just about the 10 mana instawin card.
when a game ends on turn 5 or 6 hell even 7 its just bad card.
For me the problem is that several of the other lines (warlock and Pali) consistently complete turn 4 for a 7/7 with a game altering effect. Try controlling a paladin that spams 1 cost stuff early (Pali has tons of generation), gets a 7/7 turn 5 that turns any silver hand recruits into 3/3 (and likely has two since the deck plays our 1 cost your next hero power costs 0 friend as part of the chain completion...) then spawns 2 3/3 minions per turn for two mana, has spell control like omy and tons of low cost cards that now constantly fill the board with upgraded 3/3 minions. Please tell me how a priest replies turn 6 and 7 (with any hope of staying on curve, not burning out of cards, and not needing a literally perfect hand to survive. Forget completing the questline, priest is happy to MAKE IT to turn 8 (especially because they lost a card on the quest line, and only got it back if they played on curve 2,3,4 which again requires either perfect draws, of has allowed the paladin to melt your face turn 5.
Dont even get me started on warlock. Darkglare warlocks can get their quest line completed turn 4. Which means a turn 5 play 7/7. that will allow the warlock to low cost burn you to death by latest turn 6 (turn 7 without coin - even reno priest may not have time to even play reno - and even if you do, the warlock is drawing cards by burning you, so you are still gonna melt, even back at 30). Darkglare makes most of these plays free (or 1 mana) and many of the early ones don't even put the warlock at risk for aggro (lose 5 life, gain 5 armor etc.). Literally (worst case warlock goes first): turn 1, questline, turn 2 hero power, turn 3 dark glare + 2/1 draw and lose 2 life + 1/1 hero power free + hero power. Quest line completes both heros now at 27. Play lose 5 life gain 5 armor, play 3/2 lose 3 life. Quest line 2 completed play now stands opponent at 24 warlock at 25 with 2 armor, warlock with a 2/1, 1/1, 1/1, 3/2 in play, one mana open, 3 cards in hand. Assuming those 3 cards aren't crazy lucky (if they are, the quest line finishes here), the warlock can easily finish with a draw and self burn turn 4 (even if dark glare dies). Now the turn 5 7/7 is happening. The warlock is above 15 (probably well above counting armor) and had tons of early minions so is exceedingly unlikely to have been overrun by aggro, and can, turn 6, draw and burn through their deck at the other players expense (with coin, I've actually seen warlocks play the 7/7 turn 4 and kill me turn 5).
Anyone who thinks a questline that requires 7 distinct plays totalling 35 mana with restrictions on the timing of the plays (you need to draw and cast your 2,3,4 costs BEFORE the 5,6 costs count, so if you don't get fansastic luck and get a hand perfectly on curve (or play a discover deck and get reasonably lucky) you will be foddering plays saving yourself that dont count for the quest. Even when the quest completes all you get is a 7/7 fof 5 with the chance to draw a block able win condition (mutanus eats the 7/7, tickatus kills the shard, omy, counterspell, illucia, the list goes on) that costs 10 mana....
The questline is hot trash in wild and at best middle of the road in standard.
Even if they made a card use original cost of a card in effect it would still be trash. That would be my suggestion for standard.
When the community says please give priest a win condition I don't think this is what they meant. That said, this doesn't help priest as much as people think it does.
While obviously curvestone could occur with a turn 10 kill, aggro has been rampant and not enough has been seen to show it going in a control direction. This card doesn't really help priest win the aggro matchup, it's obviously just in line in a combo matchup, and in theory this would win in a control matchup. However if the quest existed in a control matchup you'd save mutanus for the turn the quest ended to eat xyrella, or in warlocks case Tickitus could just burn the shard itself. While this could be good I don't see it being nearly the gamebreaker people think it is.
Honestly at best a 2 star with current kits, and i'd bet it gets nerfed if it is too strong anyway.
I mean priest... doesn't even really struggle against aggro that much. They have lots of efficient removal tools and healing.
But seriously: at what point are people going to start reading the quest rewards for each step along the way?
Drawing 2 cards just from playing a single 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 cost cards is really good.
It's not just about the 10 mana instawin card.
when a game ends on turn 5 or 6 hell even 7 its just bad card.
If a game ends on turn 5, 6 or 7 a lot of priest cards are bad.
And even then, if you're playing on curve, it's still a 1 mana draw 2.
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Because priest is op and annoying. Before he was able to win with value and time. Now he is able to win only playing in the curve. It is not slow for priest. You can receive an OTK in turn 10. A priest can discover the spell in its own deck.
It is not the quest that priest deserved.
I always disliked uncounterable instant kill mechanics, and no - I don't consider highrolling your Mutanus to be a viable counter.
Of course this is the perspective of someone who likes long control vs. control games, where managing your resources and value cards is the name of the game. Knowing that you will now also play against the Xyrella-clock that will get you eventually might just ruin my favorite Warrior vs. Priest games.
At least it won't be viable in Wild, as you can't step into *any* game without 1/4 of your cards being pure disruption at this point.
As a player on the other side of that match up, trust me when I say that I would have loved a mutanus back when I was getting ETC'd or Silas'd to death. Of course, it would have been a more effective counter in those cases since there are more minion combo pieces to hit.
Priest gets no win con, people bitch. Priest gets a win con... people bitch. In other news, water is wet
There is absolutely no reason to freak out over a 46 mana combo that rewards you with a 7/7 taunt, requires you to play cards in a specific order, to shuffle your win condition and to draw and play it manually.
It's a fun card, it will destroy bad decks and greedy bastards on expansion launch, and that's it.
I'm much more freaked out about the mage and warlock questlines, these are insanely easy to complete and the reward is incredible.
And yeah Celestial Druid messes with more game plans than you imagine.
It's not a 46 mana combo lol, you're just playing your deck - playing cards you'd play anyway when you'd want to play them. The ordering only has to be semi-specific. Also, it's a 1 card combo in the sense that you only have to fit 1 card into basically any control list. You don't have to waste hand space holding onto combo pieces or waste tempo tutoring/drawing for combo pieces, or waste more tempo setting up your combo (a 5 mana 7/7 taunt is not a waste of tempo). And yes, it obviously gets countered by celestial druid, but again, it only takes up one slot in your deck so you can easily build in multiple win conditions.
In a vacuum, this card is stupidly OP, but it will be completely wasted on a class that is worse than it's ever been since GvG in a completely aggro dominated meta. That's probably for the best though - if this was playable it would be horribly boring to play and horribly annoying to play against.
For one mana, even if you only discover one card, is a decent value. Discovering more than one card is a premium. The win condition at the end is just gravy. It will infrequently win games all on its own. That won't stop deck designers from trying. In Wild Priest can stall, delay and survive with aplomb.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
Just means priest can beat control warrior.... just play normal priest game. About 1 in 50 it will work on curve. Priest doesn't play on curve, and if they try they are probably dead by turn 10.
The Priest questline is simply an alternative to running C'Thun as a tool against control mirrors. C'Thun is generally bad (outside of said control mirrors) as it dilutes your deck with 4 mediocre/bad cards. The questline forces you to run some 5- and 8-drops that you normally also wouldn't, again making your deck slightly worse. It also makes your mulligan worse in matchups where you don't care about finishing it. They are both very slow. The main advantage of the questline is that it is more reliable than C'Thun in those control mirrors (in terms of killing the opponent).
However: it's not an auto-win vs control decks. Other control decks can run disruption cards, their own OTK-type win conditions, etc...it will only be an auto-win vs ultra-greedy, sub-optimal, 'fun' decks.
I mean priest... doesn't even really struggle against aggro that much. They have lots of efficient removal tools and healing.
But seriously: at what point are people going to start reading the quest rewards for each step along the way?
Drawing 2 cards just from playing a single 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 cost cards is really good.
It's not just about the 10 mana instawin card.
For me the problem is that several of the other lines (warlock and Pali) consistently complete turn 4 for a 7/7 with a game altering effect. Try controlling a paladin that spams 1 cost stuff early (Pali has tons of generation), gets a 7/7 turn 5 that turns any silver hand recruits into 3/3 (and likely has two since the deck plays our 1 cost your next hero power costs 0 friend as part of the chain completion...) then spawns 2 3/3 minions per turn for two mana, has spell control like omy and tons of low cost cards that now constantly fill the board with upgraded 3/3 minions. Please tell me how a priest replies turn 6 and 7 (with any hope of staying on curve, not burning out of cards, and not needing a literally perfect hand to survive. Forget completing the questline, priest is happy to MAKE IT to turn 8 (especially because they lost a card on the quest line, and only got it back if they played on curve 2,3,4 which again requires either perfect draws, of has allowed the paladin to melt your face turn 5.
Dont even get me started on warlock. Darkglare warlocks can get their quest line completed turn 4. Which means a turn 5 play 7/7. that will allow the warlock to low cost burn you to death by latest turn 6 (turn 7 without coin - even reno priest may not have time to even play reno - and even if you do, the warlock is drawing cards by burning you, so you are still gonna melt, even back at 30). Darkglare makes most of these plays free (or 1 mana) and many of the early ones don't even put the warlock at risk for aggro (lose 5 life, gain 5 armor etc.). Literally (worst case warlock goes first): turn 1, questline, turn 2 hero power, turn 3 dark glare + 2/1 draw and lose 2 life + 1/1 hero power free + hero power. Quest line completes both heros now at 27. Play lose 5 life gain 5 armor, play 3/2 lose 3 life. Quest line 2 completed play now stands opponent at 24 warlock at 25 with 2 armor, warlock with a 2/1, 1/1, 1/1, 3/2 in play, one mana open, 3 cards in hand. Assuming those 3 cards aren't crazy lucky (if they are, the quest line finishes here), the warlock can easily finish with a draw and self burn turn 4 (even if dark glare dies). Now the turn 5 7/7 is happening. The warlock is above 15 (probably well above counting armor) and had tons of early minions so is exceedingly unlikely to have been overrun by aggro, and can, turn 6, draw and burn through their deck at the other players expense (with coin, I've actually seen warlocks play the 7/7 turn 4 and kill me turn 5).
Anyone who thinks a questline that requires 7 distinct plays totalling 35 mana with restrictions on the timing of the plays (you need to draw and cast your 2,3,4 costs BEFORE the 5,6 costs count, so if you don't get fansastic luck and get a hand perfectly on curve (or play a discover deck and get reasonably lucky) you will be foddering plays saving yourself that dont count for the quest. Even when the quest completes all you get is a 7/7 fof 5 with the chance to draw a block able win condition (mutanus eats the 7/7, tickatus kills the shard, omy, counterspell, illucia, the list goes on) that costs 10 mana....
The questline is hot trash in wild and at best middle of the road in standard.
when a game ends on turn 5 or 6 hell even 7 its just bad card.
Even if they made a card use original cost of a card in effect it would still be trash. That would be my suggestion for standard.
If a game ends on turn 5, 6 or 7 a lot of priest cards are bad.
And even then, if you're playing on curve, it's still a 1 mana draw 2.