I never felt like these 3 cards were particularly problematic.
And these nerfs are huge. Gibberling is dead no question asked. Apotheosis is relegated to combo decks only.
Renew is ok at 2 mana I guess, and it helps mitigate some of the powercreep we've seen in priest. I'm totally fine with this one, but it didn't feel necessary.
Gibberling was insanely problematic. Losing on turn 1 is just BS.
Apotheosis wasnt a problematic card imo. They should nerf card generation and created by BS of Priest, not solid cards like Apotheosis. Sethekk is way more problematic than Apotheosis imo.
Renew was a 1 mana spell that could be generated by many ways and each of it discovers other cards so it was like 7-8 extra cards per game. On 2 mana as you says its still good to heal 3 and discover a spell.
Gibberling is dead yes, but token druid is still a good deck without it, but now the cant win you in turn 1 by having a 7 minion board of 2/2 wich was unfair.
Apotheosis is the one i dont like, obviously it was op the combo with samuro, litteraly a reno with clear board but there are more problematic card like the one that reduces cost of spells in hand by one.
MY conclusion: needed nerfs it was sad to play against priest(i its since the game exist), now its powerlevel is less
I never felt like these 3 cards were particularly problematic.
What? Gibberling was cancerous as f..k, dude.
Not my opinion, there was the very rare, occasional turn 1 win (unless you have a cheap board clear) and that's it. they totally killed the card is all i'm saying, it's not what they usually do with nerfs. 100% cost increase for a tempo card, it's massive.
I respect your opinion, I understand why people feel like it was cancerous, I just feel like it wasn't consistent enough to warrant a nerf. Most of the time it was a conditional Alleycat, now it's like one of the worst 2 drops in the game.
Gibberling had caused many turn 1 auto-wins with the right hand (usually when going second), which is exactly why it was nerfed. I don't agree that the card is dead now. It is still a powerful combo card, but for the mid-game now. It can still build huge boards out of thin air at around 4-5 mana.
Gibberling is absolutely dead. Much harder to create any viable board of these and more time for opponent to counter. I don't play much Druid, but I'm honestly not sure what deck is left for them: from the little experimentation I did a while back, Celestial is terrible and Taunt is little better (or worse? hard to say).
As for clamping down on card generation, that's fine to do, but there's got to be a payoff somewhere for Priest. A frickin win condition (beyond opponents killing themselves because the game take 45 minutes) would be just super helpful. Here's a crazy idea: how about some decent minions?
The renew nerf is fantastic. Now it can’t be generated by wandmaster and its more expensive to use. The apotheosis nerf didn’t really do anything I feel except make samuro a little less of a Reno. They should have changed it to grant lifesteal on your turn. Would have kept the card powerful but not an auto win vs some decks. The gibberling nerf is whatever. The card is far from dead. They just can’t play it on turn 1. Everything they could do on turn 1 now is moved to turn 2. Technically they can still blow up turn 1 they’ll just need to be a little more lucky and have one less gibberling.
Well that's the correct verb there, felt, because all three of these cards have been problematic for a while now. I wonder if renew and apotheosis were nerfed too harshly but I definitely understand why they'd rather err on that side (since the community gave them so much shit for nerfing palas too lightly the first time around). Priest can enjoy being tier 4 for a couple of weeks, warlock players have been there since the expansion came out, it can't be that bad :)
Maybe gibberling will still be in token druid but just as a one of (it's not like you can't go off with the card, you just need to wait one more turn to do it) or maybe token druid will simply choose to go all-spell instead.
Feels like the cards might be problematic with cards in the coming set as well, like they were on the verge of wanting to nerf and those cards mean they need to nerf before the expansion hits?
I've not been playing standard all too much, so these cards didn't strike me as a problem but that can easily be my own ignorance. I have had someone gibberling me once, but that's the only time I've seen that happen on turn 1 - again though, I haven't played too much so could easily be a low sample size.
The heal these cards provide is what is keeping Priest in its, arguably toxic, archetype. Apoth will still heal with Samuro, just not as much. Renew is still usable and almost unaffected because it will still be discounted to 1 or 0 easily - the main nerf here is preventing the Wandmaker generating another one and any new copies costing 2 so not as easy to chain into one Discover after another.
These nerfs pave the way for the new archetype they will push in the new expansion. They don't kill Priest but its obnoxiousness as the class has become unbearable to play against. I queue up to a Priest and then go and make myself a cup of tea as the opponent just plays all by themselves.
Druid's nerf is indeed the direct, proper nerf the game needed. The board swing was just too great.
I wouldn't want them to kill healing as an archetype though. I'd think it's bizarre to have a game with this lore etc and not have a class that was centered around healing. Would be nice if it could be a little more warlock style though in that the priest is often flitting around low health and can be burst down but has a higher survivability than other classes.
I'd be interested in DoT and HoT effects, personally and think that would reduce the amount of burst but reward forward planning and resource management more.
I don't think any of these cards are dead. People should be able to find a new way to play Gibberling ... i.e. more of a mid-game board flood using cards like Pride's Fury at the end of the turn. It's true that Druid won't be able to automatically win certain matchups if they highroll which is a good thing.
It was, but it's the dual class card, designed mostly for Warlock. He doesn't use it right now (because aggro deals too much damage and Warlock can't heal effectively), but I bet it will be the staple of new Questline archetype and Handlock will probably use it too.
Raise Dead was (still is?) an insane value card in ctrl priest decks. I don't understand why people consider it mostly a warlock card. Self-damage is much less problematic when you can heal yourself with half your deck/created cards and every single priest ctrl deck minion is a very relevant resurrect/value machine.
Anyway, Lightning Bloom is the druid problem card. Gibberling is just another, though well-deserved, victim of a card that can basically speed up every card in your deck by 2 turns for 0(!) mana. How on earth did that get past QA?
Apotheosis is by far the biggest nerf. The card's impact will decrease a lot, so aggro is, more than ever, back on the menu. The difference between a 2-damage Samuro clear + heal and a 3-damage clear + heal is absolutely insane. Renew is still fine and Gibberling, although a lot slower, can still become a 5-7 minion 2-drop in spell druid. It just takes a little more time to explode.
Raise Dead was (still is?) an insane value card in ctrl priest decks. I don't understand why people consider it mostly a warlock card. Self-damage is much less problematic when you can heal yourself with half your deck/created cards and every single priest ctrl deck minion is a very relevant resurrect/value machine.
Making it 1 mana would be buff for Priest (because of Wandmaker), and increasing self-damage to like 4-5 would be too much for Warlock to handle (actually for Priest probably too, because he doesn't have that much healing, unless he's lucky with discovers).
I never felt like these 3 cards were particularly problematic.
And these nerfs are huge. Gibberling is dead no question asked. Apotheosis is relegated to combo decks only.
Renew is ok at 2 mana I guess, and it helps mitigate some of the powercreep we've seen in priest. I'm totally fine with this one, but it didn't feel necessary.
Gibberling was insanely problematic. Losing on turn 1 is just BS.
Apotheosis wasnt a problematic card imo. They should nerf card generation and created by BS of Priest, not solid cards like Apotheosis. Sethekk is way more problematic than Apotheosis imo.
EVERYONE , GET A BEER!
Yeah, the priest nerfs didn't feel necessary to me. There are far worse things out there right now.
But the Gibberling one is fine. Token druid can go hug a tree. :)
Renew was a 1 mana spell that could be generated by many ways and each of it discovers other cards so it was like 7-8 extra cards per game. On 2 mana as you says its still good to heal 3 and discover a spell.
Gibberling is dead yes, but token druid is still a good deck without it, but now the cant win you in turn 1 by having a 7 minion board of 2/2 wich was unfair.
Apotheosis is the one i dont like, obviously it was op the combo with samuro, litteraly a reno with clear board but there are more problematic card like the one that reduces cost of spells in hand by one.
MY conclusion: needed nerfs it was sad to play against priest(i its since the game exist), now its powerlevel is less
What? Gibberling was cancerous as f..k, dude.
Not my opinion, there was the very rare, occasional turn 1 win (unless you have a cheap board clear) and that's it. they totally killed the card is all i'm saying, it's not what they usually do with nerfs. 100% cost increase for a tempo card, it's massive.
I respect your opinion, I understand why people feel like it was cancerous, I just feel like it wasn't consistent enough to warrant a nerf. Most of the time it was a conditional Alleycat, now it's like one of the worst 2 drops in the game.
Gibberling had caused many turn 1 auto-wins with the right hand (usually when going second), which is exactly why it was nerfed. I don't agree that the card is dead now. It is still a powerful combo card, but for the mid-game now. It can still build huge boards out of thin air at around 4-5 mana.
I don't see them weird.
Gibberling is absolutely dead. Much harder to create any viable board of these and more time for opponent to counter. I don't play much Druid, but I'm honestly not sure what deck is left for them: from the little experimentation I did a while back, Celestial is terrible and Taunt is little better (or worse? hard to say).
As for clamping down on card generation, that's fine to do, but there's got to be a payoff somewhere for Priest. A frickin win condition (beyond opponents killing themselves because the game take 45 minutes) would be just super helpful. Here's a crazy idea: how about some decent minions?
The renew nerf is fantastic. Now it can’t be generated by wandmaster and its more expensive to use. The apotheosis nerf didn’t really do anything I feel except make samuro a little less of a Reno. They should have changed it to grant lifesteal on your turn. Would have kept the card powerful but not an auto win vs some decks. The gibberling nerf is whatever. The card is far from dead. They just can’t play it on turn 1. Everything they could do on turn 1 now is moved to turn 2. Technically they can still blow up turn 1 they’ll just need to be a little more lucky and have one less gibberling.
Well that's the correct verb there, felt, because all three of these cards have been problematic for a while now. I wonder if renew and apotheosis were nerfed too harshly but I definitely understand why they'd rather err on that side (since the community gave them so much shit for nerfing palas too lightly the first time around). Priest can enjoy being tier 4 for a couple of weeks, warlock players have been there since the expansion came out, it can't be that bad :)
Maybe gibberling will still be in token druid but just as a one of (it's not like you can't go off with the card, you just need to wait one more turn to do it) or maybe token druid will simply choose to go all-spell instead.
Feels like the cards might be problematic with cards in the coming set as well, like they were on the verge of wanting to nerf and those cards mean they need to nerf before the expansion hits?
I've not been playing standard all too much, so these cards didn't strike me as a problem but that can easily be my own ignorance. I have had someone gibberling me once, but that's the only time I've seen that happen on turn 1 - again though, I haven't played too much so could easily be a low sample size.
The heal these cards provide is what is keeping Priest in its, arguably toxic, archetype. Apoth will still heal with Samuro, just not as much. Renew is still usable and almost unaffected because it will still be discounted to 1 or 0 easily - the main nerf here is preventing the Wandmaker generating another one and any new copies costing 2 so not as easy to chain into one Discover after another.
These nerfs pave the way for the new archetype they will push in the new expansion. They don't kill Priest but its obnoxiousness as the class has become unbearable to play against. I queue up to a Priest and then go and make myself a cup of tea as the opponent just plays all by themselves.
Druid's nerf is indeed the direct, proper nerf the game needed. The board swing was just too great.
I wouldn't want them to kill healing as an archetype though. I'd think it's bizarre to have a game with this lore etc and not have a class that was centered around healing. Would be nice if it could be a little more warlock style though in that the priest is often flitting around low health and can be burst down but has a higher survivability than other classes.
I'd be interested in DoT and HoT effects, personally and think that would reduce the amount of burst but reward forward planning and resource management more.
I don't think any of these cards are dead. People should be able to find a new way to play Gibberling ... i.e. more of a mid-game board flood using cards like Pride's Fury at the end of the turn. It's true that Druid won't be able to automatically win certain matchups if they highroll which is a good thing.
Well, it seems like they want Priest to join Useless Losers Club, run by Warlock...
Well I thought RAISE DEAD was a bigger issue..
It was, but it's the dual class card, designed mostly for Warlock. He doesn't use it right now (because aggro deals too much damage and Warlock can't heal effectively), but I bet it will be the staple of new Questline archetype and Handlock will probably use it too.
Raise Dead was (still is?) an insane value card in ctrl priest decks. I don't understand why people consider it mostly a warlock card. Self-damage is much less problematic when you can heal yourself with half your deck/created cards and every single priest ctrl deck minion is a very relevant resurrect/value machine.
Anyway, Lightning Bloom is the druid problem card. Gibberling is just another, though well-deserved, victim of a card that can basically speed up every card in your deck by 2 turns for 0(!) mana. How on earth did that get past QA?
Apotheosis is by far the biggest nerf. The card's impact will decrease a lot, so aggro is, more than ever, back on the menu. The difference between a 2-damage Samuro clear + heal and a 3-damage clear + heal is absolutely insane. Renew is still fine and Gibberling, although a lot slower, can still become a 5-7 minion 2-drop in spell druid. It just takes a little more time to explode.
Making it 1 mana would be buff for Priest (because of Wandmaker), and increasing self-damage to like 4-5 would be too much for Warlock to handle (actually for Priest probably too, because he doesn't have that much healing, unless he's lucky with discovers).