Taunt or life gain minion? Don't worry they will devolve it or turn it into a frog.
Break Doomhammer with ooze? Don't worry, Cagematch custodian makes sure they have a backup.
Even Deathrattle Demon Hunter is lucky to be able to keep a minion on the board.
Shaman can easily destroy all your minions and also build board.
Have 20 health? Don't worry, Doomhammer plus some combination of cards in their hand whether Diligent Notetaker, Rockbiter Weapon, Stormstrike will give them 20 attack and if they don't have it they just need to use one of their several discover cards to find one and they get about 4 chances.
This is the WORST incarnation of Shaman I have experienced, even super evolve Shaman at least ran out of gas. Current Shaman does not ever run out of gas. You probably have to be Token Druid or Face Hunter to beat it or be another Shaman,
This is the WORST incarnation of Shaman I have experienced, even super evolve Shaman at least ran out of gas. Current Shaman does not ever run out of gas. You probably have to be Token Druid or Face Hunter to beat it or be another Shaman,
Really hard to take your complaint seriously when you say "probably need to be a hunter to beat the deck".
Just play control warrior and you will eat shamans for lunch
Well, taking percentages into account even Galakrond Shaman was more dominating than what we have now.
Still I hate today's Shaman more. Half of their decks is simply the same "minion+removal" card. Differences between their cards are so minimal it creates very boring experience.
This game can be a real downer sometimes. You know the games where it feels like whatever you do doesn't matter and your opponent just has all the answers? I'm actually sympathizing with OP here, I guess.
Maybe that is the way the game is designed, but it sure seems like the new shaman has all the stuff to win without your participation required.
Maybe control warrior gaining a bunch of armor is the best way to beat them, or just race their face. But that's not the game I'd like to play.
If this is the worst incarnation of shaman you’ve ever faced then you clearly weren’t around during tunnel trogg or powermace/whirling zippomatic…
Oh my sweet summer child, green as the warm grass you were just delivered on.
^ this. i don't miss those days at all.
but that aside, i will agree with OP that elemental/doom shaman is super not fun to play against. which is made worse by the fact that i feel like every other deck on ladder is this deck. this current meta feels like the worst single-player game i've ever had, where it's always just playing against the same three decks over and over. i honestly cannot wait for this next expansion.
As always, if you think a deck is OP, you need to try using it before you complain about it.
Taunt-heavy archetypes just shut this deck down. You may devolve some of them, but you don't have enough hard removal to get through all the defenses they can muster.
That said, it is Tier 1 for a reason, and Doomhammer is definitely that reason. In conjunction with all the hero attack buffs in Shaman now, it's a bit much. I don't know if I'd nerf Doomhammer directly, though. Maybe change Stormstrike so it sets your hero's attack to 3 instead of giving it +3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I have been having extra succes with face hunter thanks to shaman. In general, as a face hunter, you don't care if your minions are removed after they have dealt the initial damage to face, so it is more of a race, where hunter just outshines shaman.
There was a period, long ago and forgotten, when Midrange shaman was the most powerful deck in the game, with no other deck coming even close to beating it. Elemental shaman is another midrange deck, but it's definitely not that dominant.
I'd say Lilypad Lurker is the worst offender here, since it has pretty much no counterplay and gives you too much tempo and value packed in one card for just 5 mana. It would be fine as a defensive tool in control deck, but in aggro deck it's way too strong (It's the same thing as Counterspell vs Oh My Yogg! or Blackjack Stunner or Devolving Missiles). Aggro decks shouldn't have access to that cheap and effective cards.
1. I have everything needed for Elemental Shaman of any flavor. Shaman is my favorite class so I have everything in standard for Shaman (But I don't like to play stupid broken decks). I could play it if I wanted to and I did play it some after the miniset came out. But I got bored of it quick so I have been playing other classes I normally don't play much (Priest, Demon Hunter)
2. Yeah, I know Galakrond Shaman was known to be worse, but I quit Standard for Battlegrounds after BG came out -- and while I read a lot about Galakrond Shaman being insane, early Battlegrounds was incredible so I wasn't playing Standard.
I've heard a lot about old Tunnel Trogg Shaman. I'm sure that was pretty bad.
3. "Taunt-heavy archetypes just shut this deck down." I assume you mean Clown Druid, unless you mean Deathrattle/Jewel of Nozoth Hunter. Either way, I don't like Druid. I may try Deathrattle/Jewel Hunter as it is actually a fun deck, but I bet it loses a lot because I think it is a Tier 3 deck if I recall. Any other class, the Shaman just turns every big Taunt into a frog or Torrent's it -- making taunt useless.
As always, if you think a deck is OP, you need to try using it before you complain about it.
This is such a great point. Every time I find myself despising a deck, I play 10 or so games with it to get a better sense of how it plays, what beats it, what it struggles with or dominates. Then I switch back to something else that isn't gross.
It's so much more efficient than switching around decks and trying to beat it with every other class.
Far from unbeatable like old midrange shaman and not a problem at all, except maybe the deck is overused in ladder, but shaman deserve a good deck after being Tier trash for so long.
Elemental Shaman in the New No Minion Mage.
Never runs out of answers.
Taunt or life gain minion? Don't worry they will devolve it or turn it into a frog.
Break Doomhammer with ooze? Don't worry, Cagematch custodian makes sure they have a backup.
Even Deathrattle Demon Hunter is lucky to be able to keep a minion on the board.
Shaman can easily destroy all your minions and also build board.
Have 20 health? Don't worry, Doomhammer plus some combination of cards in their hand whether Diligent Notetaker, Rockbiter Weapon, Stormstrike will give them 20 attack and if they don't have it they just need to use one of their several discover cards to find one and they get about 4 chances.
This is the WORST incarnation of Shaman I have experienced, even super evolve Shaman at least ran out of gas. Current Shaman does not ever run out of gas. You probably have to be Token Druid or Face Hunter to beat it or be another Shaman,
Git good?
Really hard to take your complaint seriously when you say "probably need to be a hunter to beat the deck".
Just play control warrior and you will eat shamans for lunch
If this is the worst incarnation of shaman you’ve ever faced then you clearly weren’t around during tunnel trogg or powermace/whirling zippomatic…
Oh my sweet summer child, green as the warm grass you were just delivered on.
Well, taking percentages into account even Galakrond Shaman was more dominating than what we have now.
Still I hate today's Shaman more. Half of their decks is simply the same "minion+removal" card. Differences between their cards are so minimal it creates very boring experience.
We're soon getting a new set where every deck will be running 2x weapon removal, so let's allow weapon classes to have some fun before that.
This game can be a real downer sometimes. You know the games where it feels like whatever you do doesn't matter and your opponent just has all the answers? I'm actually sympathizing with OP here, I guess.
Maybe that is the way the game is designed, but it sure seems like the new shaman has all the stuff to win without your participation required.
Maybe control warrior gaining a bunch of armor is the best way to beat them, or just race their face. But that's not the game I'd like to play.
^ this. i don't miss those days at all.
but that aside, i will agree with OP that elemental/doom shaman is super not fun to play against. which is made worse by the fact that i feel like every other deck on ladder is this deck. this current meta feels like the worst single-player game i've ever had, where it's always just playing against the same three decks over and over. i honestly cannot wait for this next expansion.
As always, if you think a deck is OP, you need to try using it before you complain about it.
Taunt-heavy archetypes just shut this deck down. You may devolve some of them, but you don't have enough hard removal to get through all the defenses they can muster.
That said, it is Tier 1 for a reason, and Doomhammer is definitely that reason. In conjunction with all the hero attack buffs in Shaman now, it's a bit much. I don't know if I'd nerf Doomhammer directly, though. Maybe change Stormstrike so it sets your hero's attack to 3 instead of giving it +3.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I have been having extra succes with face hunter thanks to shaman. In general, as a face hunter, you don't care if your minions are removed after they have dealt the initial damage to face, so it is more of a race, where hunter just outshines shaman.
There was a period, long ago and forgotten, when Midrange shaman was the most powerful deck in the game, with no other deck coming even close to beating it. Elemental shaman is another midrange deck, but it's definitely not that dominant.
I'd say Lilypad Lurker is the worst offender here, since it has pretty much no counterplay and gives you too much tempo and value packed in one card for just 5 mana. It would be fine as a defensive tool in control deck, but in aggro deck it's way too strong (It's the same thing as Counterspell vs Oh My Yogg! or Blackjack Stunner or Devolving Missiles). Aggro decks shouldn't have access to that cheap and effective cards.
Sadly FortyDust is right... You should play the deck, this way it's way easier to understand its weakness. But for this you have to be rich ^^.
My face hunter sometimes kills even priest and warlock, but I hate facing demonhunter or shaman. Maybe elemental shaman is k
1. I have everything needed for Elemental Shaman of any flavor. Shaman is my favorite class so I have everything in standard for Shaman (But I don't like to play stupid broken decks). I could play it if I wanted to and I did play it some after the miniset came out. But I got bored of it quick so I have been playing other classes I normally don't play much (Priest, Demon Hunter)
2. Yeah, I know Galakrond Shaman was known to be worse, but I quit Standard for Battlegrounds after BG came out -- and while I read a lot about Galakrond Shaman being insane, early Battlegrounds was incredible so I wasn't playing Standard.
I've heard a lot about old Tunnel Trogg Shaman. I'm sure that was pretty bad.
3. "Taunt-heavy archetypes just shut this deck down." I assume you mean Clown Druid, unless you mean Deathrattle/Jewel of Nozoth Hunter. Either way, I don't like Druid. I may try Deathrattle/Jewel Hunter as it is actually a fun deck, but I bet it loses a lot because I think it is a Tier 3 deck if I recall. Any other class, the Shaman just turns every big Taunt into a frog or Torrent's it -- making taunt useless.
They should roll back some buffs on elemental they have made previously. 5/6 with targetable hex for 5 is not balanced.
This is such a great point. Every time I find myself despising a deck, I play 10 or so games with it to get a better sense of how it plays, what beats it, what it struggles with or dominates. Then I switch back to something else that isn't gross.
It's so much more efficient than switching around decks and trying to beat it with every other class.
Run an ooze. Use taunts. Make a wide board.
What rank are you? Because they can't balance the game around anyone who thinks this is the best shaman to ever exist.
Far from unbeatable like old midrange shaman and not a problem at all, except maybe the deck is overused in ladder, but shaman deserve a good deck after being Tier trash for so long.
Play wild it's more rewarding. More answers to stuff like this