Hearthpwn

I am a rogue player guys so the coins wins it for me every day all day.. :D

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i remember that, according to stats, the win rate of the player who has coin is a little higher than the opponent. However, i just found my situation is different (according to my tracker).

That's not true.  The player with The Coin has a lower win rate.  It's 3% better to go first than second.

That's not true, that's on average, over the whole playerbase, so some people could play much better with the coin than without, it also depends a lot on  the deck you are playing, your skill level etc. You can't always say that every player will have a better win rate if they go first more often, since it's just an average, and the advantage overall is tiny even over such a large sample (I'm assuming it's large of course, with the Blizzard stats).

That's basically what IS being said.  "On average' it's better to go first than second by about 3%."  Thus YMMV when it comes to individual stats.

(Though do note that it's actually NOT common for a deck to actually break into "going second is better" territory.  Too many think too much of Dream Combos that aren't that common, like a perfect undertaker + 1/2/3 mana deathrattle minion and forgetting the many times you get a 1/2/3/4 or 12/3/3 combo, which is actually horrible for a Coin start.  Thus on average most decks, even many aggro ones, are better off going first in the long run.)

The thing is that while you need to pay attention to YOUR deck when dealing with your game, when it comes to topics like this that question whether the coin, as a whole, is better then we go with the overall average: no it's not.  

final note: Note that even WITH decks made to be better with the coin, the advantage doesn't break past 3% either. Thus the coin, with ALL of its benefits, gives a range of 3% advantage first-1-2% advantage second depending on deck.  We honestly are talking about spare change here as far as advantages goes.

 

It's very deck-depend in my mind. I remember, before all the Miracle Rogue nerfs, my stats were far better with the coin.

Miracle was one of the few decks that could actually break into the 'better going second' territory.  Even then, it was a small percentage.  It honestly did almost as well going first as second (it wouldn't be loved as a deck for half a year if it only did well half of the time).  

I can put it this way, there isn't a deck out there that does horrible going first but rocks going second.  If it can kick your face with the coin, it typically could've kicked your face without the coin.

 

 

Vegas breaks millionaires with a half percent advantage.  Wouldn't call that spare change.

You want to go 1st. In MTG you play best 2 out of 3, because going 1st is such an advantage, then the loser of the 1st game decides if they want to go 1st or 2nd. You only play one game on ladder so Blizzard had to come up with something to even that out. 

My winrate over last 100 games with coin: 59%.  My winrate over last 100 games without coin: 62%.  Apparently I prefer to go first.

There is a really good video on that but sadly I have no clue how to find it. maybe somebody else knows about it or the right key words.

It's generally accepted in game theory that first move has an advantage over second move, in HS it's not as true as it is in a game like chess yet there are fairly few decks that actually profit from the coin. Those decks are usually decks including creatures that convert the coin in something useful. Be it Archmage or as an combo activator in rogue.

But generally speaking first move has quite a lot of advantages, from dictating the tempo to first having access to the higher mana pool. Usually it comes more into play with decks that have a 1 drop but warrior has with fiery war axe the best two drop to counter the T1 and T2, so even if a coin is used and two mana creatures are played at T1 and T2, warrior can usually deal with them. Of course usually is the key word here since of course there are exceptions but those are not relevant for an statistically advantage.

Having the higher mana pool means you can play your creatures before he does, meaning he either has to deal with them. An example is T7 with Dr. Boom. Given that both people have Dr. Boom in their hand, the person who can play Dr. Boom has the advantage since he is able to force the opponent to play for example BGH instead of his own Dr. Boom, often leading to not hitting the mana cost on point.

With patron warrior you are one turn closer to your T8 which is usually were you fire your combo, resulting into one turn less were you opponent is able to prepare or burst you down. 

Yet big differences in win/lose ratio due to the coin are often just statistically anomalies and would not be as big over a million games. More reasonable numbers are probably up to 5% variance, and that's already the absolute maximum.  

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRHdIScOMWQ found the video

If you want the Coin, then you don't know what you want. Every TCG has an extra card for the player going second, and there's still a huge advantage to going first. Hearthstone has the mulligan of an extra card and the Coin on top of that, and there's still a huge advantage to going first. Going first is that big of an advantage.

Too many people think of that ONE TURN when the coin gets useful, but not the rest of the turns, or even turn 1 matters.

For most decks, the actual BEST start is actually NOT with the coin.  It's with a 1, 2, and 3 drop.  Going first and being able to drop a 1 drop is THE best start you can manage for most decks, even better than going second and dropping a 2 drop.  Anyone who has fought a mage who's dropped a mana wyrm then followed with a frost bolt against your minion understands this issue.  

Note that many decks also fall under the same concept.  While a druid going coin/wild growth/shade is great, going first with innervate/shade/wild growth is much, much better.  

The coin, for most decks, is best when you DON'T have a great start as a curve manager.  If you get a 2, 2, 3 in your hand, going second is better.  Same for, say, a 4, 5, 8 as you can coin the 4 to at least have a 3 drop while hero powering turn 2.  

However, when your start runs properly with a 1, 2, 3, or a 2, 3, 4 start, you're behind on tempo since your opponent gets to drop their minion first.  Then, the most you can do is either kill theirs and end with an empty board, to which they drop their next minion, or you drop your minion and they get their full mana AND a minion ready to move to deal with it and maintain Tempo.  And it's Tempo that wins games.  The entire game revolves around obtaining, holding, and denying Tempo.  Who acts first greatly determines Tempo and that's far more powerful than how strong your initial minion is.

(btw, about that 'coined double 1 drop' for aggro, that always assumes an empty board.  That doesn't work as well against a Chow or northshire drop by an opponent going first.  Besides, if my hunter drops a leper gnome going first and you drop 2 gnomes, I still get to Gaz it, killing one of your gnomes and doing 3 damage to your face or going all face and doing 5.  Even if we trade faces afterwards, I get my animal companion out first, get to start using my hero power while dropping minions first, get to put my highmanes out first, and have been hitting you first.)

There's only a few exceptions.  Those exceptions are based on mechanics specially designed to benefit from non-traditional bonuses.  Rogue's 'combo' feature benefits from multiple cards and a card that's 0 mana becomes EXTREMELY powerful to them.  Tempo mage has a ton of tricks to gain Tempo, such as Apprentice into Frost bolt in turn 3, and how blasted durable mana wyrm is so giving up early Tempo isn't so bad for them.  Meanwhile, they are VERY dependent on a good mana curve so having a coin to smooth out any lumps is very important.  

But for most decks out there, the coin can turn a bad situation into a decent one, but going first is the only way to get the best situation.

It's just like a lot of marketing tricks.  Getting a 50% discount on $100 'feels' better than a product that's $45, and losing $20 'feels' worse than gaining $25.  The coin 'feels' better as it gives more control and prevents problems, which is why so many want it.  

But that doesn't make it true.

Since I play druid, having coin is an advantage, you are able to play bigger minions if you want to innervate into something (possible Piloted Shredder turn 1.) There are also more uses for coin in druid, such as turn 8 combo if you have lethal.

as control i like to go second(handlock) to start playing my 4 mana minion on turn 3 and as aggro most of the time first to play does 1 drops

No. The enemies use the coin wrong many times. I like that. 

As mentioned above, for druids it can be good, not in the case of the example given to play minions earlier, but definetly for wild Growth and ramping up.

Quote from wg15 >>

No. The enemies use the coin wrong many times. I like that. 

As mentioned above, for druids it can be good, not in the case of the example given to play minions earlier, but definetly for wild Growth and ramping up.

It entirely depends on the deck. There are certain decks that can gain a lot of tempo from the coin. Specifically rogue, but it can also be helpful with Druid and Mage. According to Blizzards statistics without the coin is a couple of percentage points higher. Anecdotally in Arena I have a much higher win rate with the coin according to my records on HearthArena, but that is probably due to 2 things, 1 I didn't initially pick enough 2 drops in my decks so having the coin helped smooth out my curve, and 2 see rogue (combo's etc)

edit: fell for necro  

Dead thread.  Dead point.