This card has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck. To know why this card is OP, we will compare Mankrik to its best comparison, the Primes. The Primes start as a non-Prime, same as Mankrik. Then it shuffles a more powerful counterpart to the deck and you need to draw it, same as Mankrik. For the Primes' case, the card needs to be played to gain the value. The card is stronger than the standard, but not that much, since they cost a LOT. Mankrik, however, costs (0), does not need to be played, is guaranteed to deal 3 damage to face, and it draws a card, too. So, if it became a minion, it would be a 0 Mana 3/7 Charge minion with draw a card as the Battlecry. Its OP-ness is not as visible from other classes, as they don't have the card to draw it immediately, but Hunter does.
My suggestion is to change the card Mankrik shuffles into the deck so that it doesn't cast when drawn. 3 Mana 3/7 deal 3 damage to face is very good. If Hunter is okay with playing a 4 Mana 3/4 that hits 4 to your own face as well as your opponent's, then it should be as okay to play the card.
This card is too good. It has a 2.5 Mana body and it pretty much casts Scavenger's Ingenuity, but it also buffs the other copy instead of just the one drawn. The card is too powerful. It also has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter's deck, alongside Mankrik and Rinling's Rifle, but I don't think Rinling's Rifle is OP, considering there will be more Hunter Secrets in next expansions to butcher its Discover RNG.
My suggestion is to reduce the buff to +1/+1 from +2/+1.
And that's it for Hunter. Since it requires like 4 nerfs to balance Paladin, I don't think it's outrageous to ask for 2 nerfs for Hunter.
Why was this card buffed? This card was already balanced before the buff, since its effect is very powerful. Now, it's just frustrating to have to face a 5/6 at turn 5 after it transforms a minion into garbage.
The card can deal up to 40 damage on its own in 4 turns, or around 10-16 damage in 1 turn on average. If they don't like Pyroblast to deal 10 damage at 8 Mana, then they should be as not okay with this. The card is so hard to take care of, literally the only two ways to counter this card are to defeat it before it deals massive damage (sigh aggro again) or to Ooze it, or be a Priest as the bonus third. If a card has that few counters and that huge risk if not countered, then there is a problem with the card. Granted, the card is nowhere near as good by itself, but so was Crabrider before it got nerfed.
My suggestion is to increase its Cost to 6 Mana from 5 Mana. At least it's slower, so that control decks have more time to prepare and aggro decks can punish it more.
It's a 0 Mana draw 3 gain 3 Mana. Enough explanation. If this hasn't convinced you, I don't know what will. This card has like 100% use rate in Demon Hunter decks.
My suggestion is to reduce the cost reduction to (2) less from (3) less.
This card is so bad. Not only it hits you more the more opponent you hit, but the worst part of this card is that it's RANDOM. The best comparison to this is Throw Glaive. The latter costs 1 Mana less. Yes, it deals 1 less damage, but it's not random. Come on, just give the extra 1 damage as reward for being random.
My suggestion is to reduce its Cost to 0 Mana from 1 Mana.
We know from Immolation Aura that dealing 2 damage to all minions is worth 2 Mana, and we know from Iron Hide and Flash Heal that gaining 5 Vitality (Health/Armor) is worth 1 Mana. That means the other effect costs 2 Mana. The problem is, the other effect is garbage. You must KILL the minions, and it only gives you 2 Armor for each. Most of the time, you will only gain 4-6 Armor. You might gain more, but it's usually an extremely specific condition, and that's pretty much how all AoE effects work. You may gain more value or lose value depending on the condition.
My suggestion is to reduce its Cost to 3 Mana from 4 Mana.
Warsong wrangler is so slow.. this is simply another one of those posts where certain cards defeated you, and now ya gotta cut some cards heads off. Even though your post looks well thought out, and intellectually sound while you're reading it. That's all this post is. That's all this forum is.
Warsong wrangler is so slow.. this is simply another one of those posts where certain cards defeated you, and now ya gotta cut some cards heads off. Even though your post looks well thought out, and intellectually sound while you're reading it. That's all this post is. That's all this forum is.
I respect your opinion, but how about elaborating more?
Like I said before, Warsong Wrangler has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck, and I think we can all agree that Face Hunter is OP and a card or two must be nerfed.
I agree with the Rancor buff because it is so bad at 4 mana, but that would be an extremely powerful card auto include in control decks. By far the best out of all the 3 mana deal 2 damage board clears. (Breath of the Infinite, Volcanic Potion, School Spirits, Powershot). Not sure that's good for the game.
Warsong wrangler is so slow.. this is simply another one of those posts where certain cards defeated you, and now ya gotta cut some cards heads off. Even though your post looks well thought out, and intellectually sound while you're reading it. That's all this post is. That's all this forum is.
I respect your opinion, but how about elaborating more?
Like I said before, Warsong Wrangler has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck, and I think we can all agree that Face Hunter is OP and a card or two must be nerfed.
Statistical data is on my side. What is on yours?
There will always be a highest win rate card in every deck. This is not why you nerf a card. And we cannot all agree that face hunter is OP.
Warsong wrangler is so slow.. this is simply another one of those posts where certain cards defeated you, and now ya gotta cut some cards heads off. Even though your post looks well thought out, and intellectually sound while you're reading it. That's all this post is. That's all this forum is.
I respect your opinion, but how about elaborating more?
Like I said before, Warsong Wrangler has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck, and I think we can all agree that Face Hunter is OP and a card or two must be nerfed.
Statistical data is on my side. What is on yours?
You don't though. Stats aren't on your side. You got beat.
Warsong wrangler is so slow.. this is simply another one of those posts where certain cards defeated you, and now ya gotta cut some cards heads off. Even though your post looks well thought out, and intellectually sound while you're reading it. That's all this post is. That's all this forum is.
I respect your opinion, but how about elaborating more?
Like I said before, Warsong Wrangler has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck, and I think we can all agree that Face Hunter is OP and a card or two must be nerfed.
Statistical data is on my side. What is on yours?
You don't though. Stats aren't on your side. You got beat.
I think you're a troll. I'm going to ignore you for the rest of this thread.
Warsong wrangler is so slow.. this is simply another one of those posts where certain cards defeated you, and now ya gotta cut some cards heads off. Even though your post looks well thought out, and intellectually sound while you're reading it. That's all this post is. That's all this forum is.
I respect your opinion, but how about elaborating more?
Like I said before, Warsong Wrangler has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck, and I think we can all agree that Face Hunter is OP and a card or two must be nerfed.
Statistical data is on my side. What is on yours?
You don't though. Stats aren't on your side. You got beat.
What stats? And what do they really show? That one or two cards in the deck are too powerful? Or that the current meta is simply favorable for aggressive decks? What do the match-ups look like?
As far as I can tell, face hunter still largely has the same weaknesses it always had. Answer their early board, build one of your own, run them out of resources, maybe heal a bit. Their reach is limited.
I know you're a sore loser. I'm not a troll, and my post history shows that. You got beat. I know you're doing the whole "high route" bit, but you're already exposed for being what you are. Whether I'm being ignored or not, I definitely don't care.
Face Hunter has always been the best deck at the beginning of every expansion, give it some time and it will slowly fade into Tier 2
Your post is more like "I lose to Face Hunter and Doom Shaman, nerf them"
What? No. Hunter might be the best in every beginning, but it's usually only for 1 to 2 days.
Last expansion (Forged in The Barrens), Paladin immediately became number 1, closely followed by Hunter. Then it stayed that way, even after nerfs, until the 4th nerf got announced.
Face it, the meta has been settled. The top 3 are Hunter, Shaman, and Demon Hunter.
Jesus, just let the meta be for a while, eh? Games' pretty fun as it is right now and various classes and decks are viable... always a reason to complain
I like how people here are anti-stats, while people in the other threads, especially the thread made by a guy who reached Legend with Control Warrior, talk greatly about stats.
It's as if there are two completely different and opposite circles in one community.
Either that or you are just pretentious hypocrites.
A lot of my suggestions, while just an opinion, are based on stats. Mankrik and Warsong Wrangler specifically.
Admittedly, I didn't look very sharply at the stats before suggesting the other three nerfs, but for Lilypad Lurker, I chose that because it was unnecessarily buffed.
I'm going to revise my list here and change the cards need to be nerfed:
Skull of Gul'dan to either Deathspeaker Blackthorn or Illidari Inquisitor, more on the latter. The latter can have a ridiculous win rate of 75% if played.
Next time, before calling someone "sore loser because you lose a match", actually back your arguments.
lol warsong wrangler is on the list to be cut? wow someone is salty. sorry but that card isn't great. it has a high winrate in a deck that, before other, better decks were nerfed, was steady tier 2/3 deck. good enough to climb, nothing to write home about. its stats are paltry if you go back even a month pal. you just salty and that card is just ok as are the other cards on your list.
A lot of my suggestions, while just an opinion, are based on stats. Mankrik and Warsong Wrangler specifically.
You sort of vaguely referred to "win rates". But whatever specific stats you meant, I'm not sure they show what you think they show.
At any rate, as to your suggested nerfs for these cards -- as someone who plays hunter almost exclusively -- they would become unplayed. Your nerf to Mankrik would also make Barak Kodobane unplayed in standard because currently hunter has no 3-drop spell it wants to include in any deck, and paying 5 mana to draw two low-impact cards is not something any hunter can afford.
Your goal for nerfing these cards may have been to tweak hunters' overall win rate down a bit, but what you'd accomplish with them is utterly trashing not just face hunters, but probably any other hunter archetype in standard.
For a class that has very limited card draw, and no mana-cheat (in standard), each card played must be high impact, or have high synergy with other cards, to compete. Hunter is a pretty fair class. If its overall win rate is high, it may well be due to a favorable meta, rather than the strength of these two cards. What do your stats really show?
I like how people here are anti-stats, while people in the other threads, especially the thread made by a guy who reached Legend with Control Warrior, talk greatly about stats.
It's as if there are two completely different and opposite circles in one community.
Either that or you are just pretentious hypocrites.
A lot of my suggestions, while just an opinion, are based on stats. Mankrik and Warsong Wrangler specifically.
Admittedly, I didn't look very sharply at the stats before suggesting the other three nerfs, but for Lilypad Lurker, I chose that because it was unnecessarily buffed.
I'm going to revise my list here and change the cards need to be nerfed:
Skull of Gul'dan to either Deathspeaker Blackthorn or Illidari Inquisitor, more on the latter. The latter can have a ridiculous win rate of 75% if played.
Next time, before calling someone "sore loser because you lose a match", actually back your arguments.
Played win rate isn't a great indicator of a card's overall strength either though. Finisher cards will have a really high win rate, they tend to get played to end games. Mechathun likely has or had a very high played win rate, it doesn't mean the deck or card itself is over powered or requires a nerf.
I think the reaction you've had is because the community calls for nerfs literally all the time. Every single update and expansion I've seen, there are multiple different calls for nerfs and most never get done, because they aren't necessary and it's honestly pretty tiresome at this point.
I've been messing around with priest and have found hunter, shaman and demon hunter are all very farmable. There are a few strong classes and decks, that doesn't mean they are a problem and you've probably been branded quickly with the 'moan because you lost to a card' because that happens pretty much daily here. It's kind of like the boy who cried wolf.
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It has been around 1 week since the release of the Wailing Caverns Mini Set. I think we have our own list of change suggestions. Here is mine:
1. Mankrik
This card has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck. To know why this card is OP, we will compare Mankrik to its best comparison, the Primes. The Primes start as a non-Prime, same as Mankrik. Then it shuffles a more powerful counterpart to the deck and you need to draw it, same as Mankrik. For the Primes' case, the card needs to be played to gain the value. The card is stronger than the standard, but not that much, since they cost a LOT. Mankrik, however, costs (0), does not need to be played, is guaranteed to deal 3 damage to face, and it draws a card, too. So, if it became a minion, it would be a 0 Mana 3/7 Charge minion with draw a card as the Battlecry. Its OP-ness is not as visible from other classes, as they don't have the card to draw it immediately, but Hunter does.
My suggestion is to change the card Mankrik shuffles into the deck so that it doesn't cast when drawn. 3 Mana 3/7 deal 3 damage to face is very good. If Hunter is okay with playing a 4 Mana 3/4 that hits 4 to your own face as well as your opponent's, then it should be as okay to play the card.
2. Warsong Wrangler
This card is too good. It has a 2.5 Mana body and it pretty much casts Scavenger's Ingenuity, but it also buffs the other copy instead of just the one drawn. The card is too powerful. It also has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter's deck, alongside Mankrik and Rinling's Rifle, but I don't think Rinling's Rifle is OP, considering there will be more Hunter Secrets in next expansions to butcher its Discover RNG.
My suggestion is to reduce the buff to +1/+1 from +2/+1.
And that's it for Hunter. Since it requires like 4 nerfs to balance Paladin, I don't think it's outrageous to ask for 2 nerfs for Hunter.
3. Lilypad Lurker
Why was this card buffed? This card was already balanced before the buff, since its effect is very powerful. Now, it's just frustrating to have to face a 5/6 at turn 5 after it transforms a minion into garbage.
My suggestion is to revert the buff.
4. Doomhammer
The card can deal up to 40 damage on its own in 4 turns, or around 10-16 damage in 1 turn on average. If they don't like Pyroblast to deal 10 damage at 8 Mana, then they should be as not okay with this. The card is so hard to take care of, literally the only two ways to counter this card are to defeat it before it deals massive damage (sigh aggro again) or to Ooze it, or be a Priest as the bonus third. If a card has that few counters and that huge risk if not countered, then there is a problem with the card. Granted, the card is nowhere near as good by itself, but so was Crabrider before it got nerfed.
My suggestion is to increase its Cost to 6 Mana from 5 Mana. At least it's slower, so that control decks have more time to prepare and aggro decks can punish it more.
5. Skull of Gul'dan
It's a 0 Mana draw 3 gain 3 Mana. Enough explanation. If this hasn't convinced you, I don't know what will. This card has like 100% use rate in Demon Hunter decks.
My suggestion is to reduce the cost reduction to (2) less from (3) less.
That's it for the nerfs, now to the buffs.
6. Perpetual Flame
This card is so bad. Not only it hits you more the more opponent you hit, but the worst part of this card is that it's RANDOM. The best comparison to this is Throw Glaive. The latter costs 1 Mana less. Yes, it deals 1 less damage, but it's not random. Come on, just give the extra 1 damage as reward for being random.
My suggestion is to reduce its Cost to 0 Mana from 1 Mana.
7. Rancor
We know from Immolation Aura that dealing 2 damage to all minions is worth 2 Mana, and we know from Iron Hide and Flash Heal that gaining 5 Vitality (Health/Armor) is worth 1 Mana. That means the other effect costs 2 Mana. The problem is, the other effect is garbage. You must KILL the minions, and it only gives you 2 Armor for each. Most of the time, you will only gain 4-6 Armor. You might gain more, but it's usually an extremely specific condition, and that's pretty much how all AoE effects work. You may gain more value or lose value depending on the condition.
My suggestion is to reduce its Cost to 3 Mana from 4 Mana.
Apart from Mankrik I don't see the problem. There are counters to weapons, and the elemental is strong but we've seen worse.
Warsong wrangler is so slow.. this is simply another one of those posts where certain cards defeated you, and now ya gotta cut some cards heads off. Even though your post looks well thought out, and intellectually sound while you're reading it. That's all this post is. That's all this forum is.
I respect your opinion, but how about elaborating more?
Like I said before, Warsong Wrangler has one of the highest win rates in Face Hunter deck, and I think we can all agree that Face Hunter is OP and a card or two must be nerfed.
Statistical data is on my side. What is on yours?
I agree with the Rancor buff because it is so bad at 4 mana, but that would be an extremely powerful card auto include in control decks. By far the best out of all the 3 mana deal 2 damage board clears. (Breath of the Infinite, Volcanic Potion, School Spirits, Powershot). Not sure that's good for the game.
Other suggestions are trash, sorry.
There will always be a highest win rate card in every deck. This is not why you nerf a card. And we cannot all agree that face hunter is OP.
You don't though. Stats aren't on your side. You got beat.
I think you're a troll. I'm going to ignore you for the rest of this thread.
What stats? And what do they really show? That one or two cards in the deck are too powerful? Or that the current meta is simply favorable for aggressive decks? What do the match-ups look like?
As far as I can tell, face hunter still largely has the same weaknesses it always had. Answer their early board, build one of your own, run them out of resources, maybe heal a bit. Their reach is limited.
I know you're a sore loser. I'm not a troll, and my post history shows that. You got beat. I know you're doing the whole "high route" bit, but you're already exposed for being what you are. Whether I'm being ignored or not, I definitely don't care.
Face Hunter has always been the best deck at the beginning of every expansion, give it some time and it will slowly fade into Tier 2
Your post is more like "I lose to Face Hunter and Doom Shaman, nerf them"
What? No. Hunter might be the best in every beginning, but it's usually only for 1 to 2 days.
Last expansion (Forged in The Barrens), Paladin immediately became number 1, closely followed by Hunter. Then it stayed that way, even after nerfs, until the 4th nerf got announced.
Face it, the meta has been settled. The top 3 are Hunter, Shaman, and Demon Hunter.
Mankirk was already nerfed .
Only Mankrik could get a slap on the waist, getting bumped to 4 mana just to not get tutored by Barak Obama, but the rest is fine.
Face Hunter and Shaman have many counters, its a matter of get gud, sorry.
Jesus, just let the meta be for a while, eh? Games' pretty fun as it is right now and various classes and decks are viable... always a reason to complain
I like how people here are anti-stats, while people in the other threads, especially the thread made by a guy who reached Legend with Control Warrior, talk greatly about stats.
It's as if there are two completely different and opposite circles in one community.
Either that or you are just pretentious hypocrites.
A lot of my suggestions, while just an opinion, are based on stats. Mankrik and Warsong Wrangler specifically.
Admittedly, I didn't look very sharply at the stats before suggesting the other three nerfs, but for Lilypad Lurker, I chose that because it was unnecessarily buffed.
I'm going to revise my list here and change the cards need to be nerfed:
Skull of Gul'dan to either Deathspeaker Blackthorn or Illidari Inquisitor, more on the latter. The latter can have a ridiculous win rate of 75% if played.
Next time, before calling someone "sore loser because you lose a match", actually back your arguments.
90% of them are hyper aggro (smashing opponent's face in 5-6 turns) and 10% are designed to beat that aggro. Sure, fun like hell...
lol warsong wrangler is on the list to be cut? wow someone is salty. sorry but that card isn't great. it has a high winrate in a deck that, before other, better decks were nerfed, was steady tier 2/3 deck. good enough to climb, nothing to write home about. its stats are paltry if you go back even a month pal. you just salty and that card is just ok as are the other cards on your list.
You sort of vaguely referred to "win rates". But whatever specific stats you meant, I'm not sure they show what you think they show.
At any rate, as to your suggested nerfs for these cards -- as someone who plays hunter almost exclusively -- they would become unplayed. Your nerf to Mankrik would also make Barak Kodobane unplayed in standard because currently hunter has no 3-drop spell it wants to include in any deck, and paying 5 mana to draw two low-impact cards is not something any hunter can afford.
Your goal for nerfing these cards may have been to tweak hunters' overall win rate down a bit, but what you'd accomplish with them is utterly trashing not just face hunters, but probably any other hunter archetype in standard.
For a class that has very limited card draw, and no mana-cheat (in standard), each card played must be high impact, or have high synergy with other cards, to compete. Hunter is a pretty fair class. If its overall win rate is high, it may well be due to a favorable meta, rather than the strength of these two cards. What do your stats really show?
Played win rate isn't a great indicator of a card's overall strength either though. Finisher cards will have a really high win rate, they tend to get played to end games. Mechathun likely has or had a very high played win rate, it doesn't mean the deck or card itself is over powered or requires a nerf.
I think the reaction you've had is because the community calls for nerfs literally all the time. Every single update and expansion I've seen, there are multiple different calls for nerfs and most never get done, because they aren't necessary and it's honestly pretty tiresome at this point.
I've been messing around with priest and have found hunter, shaman and demon hunter are all very farmable. There are a few strong classes and decks, that doesn't mean they are a problem and you've probably been branded quickly with the 'moan because you lost to a card' because that happens pretty much daily here. It's kind of like the boy who cried wolf.