Hi, hope someone can answer with clarity - new June 1, 2021 TOS says blizz will "scour" (my wording, but how I do imagine it) your hard drive for "unallowed" software or hardware... does the new tos consider vpn software as unallowed?
No, or at least nothing in the published TOS suggests so and no published comments address VPNs in that manner.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
of course it's legal as long as they notify you and you click "I agree".
If you think that's nuts, some of the stuff that Apple has snuck into their IOS terms of service would really piss you off.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
No, or at least nothing in the published TOS suggests so and no published comments address VPNs in that manner.
When opening battle dot net app this morning it had a new, as of June 1st, tos... one of the paragraphs (1c I believe) specifically addressed software (or hardware for that matter) that intercepted or redirected to or thru servers gameplay. That's what prompted this thread. Not sure I'm all that crazy about them sifting thru my hard drive either.
I mean they don't go into detail, but if I had to guess, they're doing a hunt for bot programs.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I skimmed the full TOS but it's entirely possible I missed something.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I mean they don't go into detail, but if I had to guess, they're doing a hunt for bot programs.
Uhmm, should proly read thru the tos... while I understand the desire on Blizzard - well really activision, to rid the world of bots in HS, the idea that it's acceptable to make arbitrary decisions on what software exists on my 'puter or mobile could be grounds for account termination seems ambitious at best, beyond reasonable in my estimation.
The way the new tos reads for example if you use HS decktracker or firestone and they have a falling out that is temporary blizz could find anyone using it in violation and terminate an account... with no recourse even after they kiss and make up. If you play WoW. Zygor or similar tools could cause the same!
What if they decided one of your third party games they offer thru blizz was now offensive and stop carrying it... even if you got it from another source it would be grounds for termination.
I realize all of these examples are unlikely to happen... still... it reads that way.
Matchmaking: Host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game(s), or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play (except as expressly authorized by Blizzard), or as part of content aggregation networks.
Unauthorized Connections: Facilitate, create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Platform including without limitation (i) any connection to any unauthorized server that emulates, or attempts to emulate, the Platform; and (ii) any connection using third-party programs or tools not expressly authorized by Blizzard.
So in the 1 C section (license limitations) there were these two paragraphs, neither of which reach VPN but have somewhat similar language.
also there is this:
Data Mining: Use any unauthorized process or software that intercepts, collects, reads, or “mines” information generated or stored by the Platform; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third-party user interfaces.
Don't think any of that is a blanket comment on VPNs. Just some possible uses of abnormal connections.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
As I said above, I'm not arguing with you, but there are frequently incredible liberties taken among folks who are using various forms of DRM and other real-time license limitations and updates.
In other words, they think they can yank your right to play the game whenever they feel like for whatever they feel like, and realistically you're probably not going to be able to wage a relevant legal challenge to that belief.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I'm dealing with a similar disappointment with the company who publishes World of Warships.
After spending countless hours and significant amounts of money in that game, they suddenly rolled out an update that completely cut out all players who weren't using a very specific set of graphics drivers under the windows 10 OS.
Since I am currently using a refurbished machine, those particular drivers were not going to cut it for my hardware.
All of a sudden, my account is basically worthless until I decide to buy a new computer and no realistic appeal options to the company.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Section 4 actually has the most offensive language to me... but it refers back to section 1C:
Section 1:
License Limitations.Blizzard may suspend or revoke your license to use the Platform, or parts, components and/or single features thereof, if you violate, or assist others in violating, the license limitations set forth below. You agree that you will not, in whole or in part or under any circumstances, do the following:
any code and/or software, not expressly authorized by Blizzard, that can be used in connection with the Platform and/or any component or feature thereof which changes and/or facilitates the gameplay or other functionality;
Section 4:
Consent to Monitor.WHILE RUNNING, THE PLATFORM (INCLUDING A GAME) MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER, CONSOLE, OR MOBILE DEVICE'S MEMORY FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING EITHER CONCURRENTLY WITH A GAME OR OUT OF PROCESS. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE PROHIBITED BY SECTION 1.C. ABOVE. IN THE EVENT THAT THE PLATFORM DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, (a) THE PLATFORM MAY COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE; AND/OR (b) BLIZZARD MAY EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER. Additionally, certain Games include a tool that will allow your computer system to forward information to Blizzard in the event that the Game crashes, including system and driver data, and by agreeing hereto you consent to Blizzard receiving and/or using this data.
Right right, the Section 4 is basically just saying what they're going to do about it if you violate 1C
Also, I suppose it's the part that notifies you that it's monitoring in real time, but I'm cynical, so I always assumed that's true every moment I'm on the internet.
I still don't think 1C can be fairly read to reach VPN's doing their IP masking stuff. Everything in 1C referred to specific interactions with the platform, the game, or the servers of Activision.
I don't know, all this is academic, as they can claim anything is unauthorized post facto and there wouldn't be much we could do about it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
This is absolutely true... no recourse except of course to quit playing... which is what started this discussion for me, didn't even want to consider that after years of investment - both in time and otherwise. Plus the enjoyment factor lol!
In any event, thanks for sharing your ideas, much appreciated!!
Another game just did this a month or so ago (I think it was a type of shooter) - but I can't remember any of the details. So I can't look to see how it has played out.
Section 4 actually has the most offensive language to me... but it refers back to section 1C:
Section 1:
License Limitations.Blizzard may suspend or revoke your license to use the Platform, or parts, components and/or single features thereof, if you violate, or assist others in violating, the license limitations set forth below. You agree that you will not, in whole or in part or under any circumstances, do the following:
any code and/or software, not expressly authorized by Blizzard, that can be used in connection with the Platform and/or any component or feature thereof which changes and/or facilitates the gameplay or other functionality;
Section 4:
Consent to Monitor.WHILE RUNNING, THE PLATFORM (INCLUDING A GAME) MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER, CONSOLE, OR MOBILE DEVICE'S MEMORY FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING EITHER CONCURRENTLY WITH A GAME OR OUT OF PROCESS. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE PROHIBITED BY SECTION 1.C. ABOVE. IN THE EVENT THAT THE PLATFORM DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, (a) THE PLATFORM MAY COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE; AND/OR (b) BLIZZARD MAY EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER. Additionally, certain Games include a tool that will allow your computer system to forward information to Blizzard in the event that the Game crashes, including system and driver data, and by agreeing hereto you consent to Blizzard receiving and/or using this data.
Another game just did this a month or so ago (I think it was a type of shooter) - but I can't remember any of the details. So I can't look to see how it has played out.
Do you mean Valorant? That has been over a year now, but the problem was/is that their anti-cheat system works at ring 0. Which means that its booted up before the OS and has more rights than the admin. Oh, and the company is owned by the chinese giant tencent, wonder what they could do with such a software...
1 What's chinese government opinion on the topic - after all it would be a pity if the developers got their game banned on such a huge market (go go China!)?
2 How much we can sue Blizzard if they ever loose or have our data stolen. After all it's a ton of personal information?
Jokes aside, I understand they try to prevent boting but they are stepping a bit too far in my opinion.
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Hi, hope someone can answer with clarity - new June 1, 2021 TOS says blizz will "scour" (my wording, but how I do imagine it) your hard drive for "unallowed" software or hardware... does the new tos consider vpn software as unallowed?
Thanks
Uh, thanks for telling me. Is this even legal?
No, or at least nothing in the published TOS suggests so and no published comments address VPNs in that manner.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
of course it's legal as long as they notify you and you click "I agree".
If you think that's nuts, some of the stuff that Apple has snuck into their IOS terms of service would really piss you off.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
wait, what are they gonna actually do?
When opening battle dot net app this morning it had a new, as of June 1st, tos... one of the paragraphs (1c I believe) specifically addressed software (or hardware for that matter) that intercepted or redirected to or thru servers gameplay. That's what prompted this thread. Not sure I'm all that crazy about them sifting thru my hard drive either.
I mean they don't go into detail, but if I had to guess, they're doing a hunt for bot programs.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Hmm, let me go look Crunchy.
I skimmed the full TOS but it's entirely possible I missed something.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Uhmm, should proly read thru the tos... while I understand the desire on Blizzard - well really activision, to rid the world of bots in HS, the idea that it's acceptable to make arbitrary decisions on what software exists on my 'puter or mobile could be grounds for account termination seems ambitious at best, beyond reasonable in my estimation.
The way the new tos reads for example if you use HS decktracker or firestone and they have a falling out that is temporary blizz could find anyone using it in violation and terminate an account... with no recourse even after they kiss and make up. If you play WoW. Zygor or similar tools could cause the same!
What if they decided one of your third party games they offer thru blizz was now offensive and stop carrying it... even if you got it from another source it would be grounds for termination.
I realize all of these examples are unlikely to happen... still... it reads that way.
So in the 1 C section (license limitations) there were these two paragraphs, neither of which reach VPN but have somewhat similar language.
also there is this:
Data Mining: Use any unauthorized process or software that intercepts, collects, reads, or “mines” information generated or stored by the Platform; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third-party user interfaces.
Don't think any of that is a blanket comment on VPNs. Just some possible uses of abnormal connections.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
As I said above, I'm not arguing with you, but there are frequently incredible liberties taken among folks who are using various forms of DRM and other real-time license limitations and updates.
In other words, they think they can yank your right to play the game whenever they feel like for whatever they feel like, and realistically you're probably not going to be able to wage a relevant legal challenge to that belief.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I'm dealing with a similar disappointment with the company who publishes World of Warships.
After spending countless hours and significant amounts of money in that game, they suddenly rolled out an update that completely cut out all players who weren't using a very specific set of graphics drivers under the windows 10 OS.
Since I am currently using a refurbished machine, those particular drivers were not going to cut it for my hardware.
All of a sudden, my account is basically worthless until I decide to buy a new computer and no realistic appeal options to the company.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Section 4 actually has the most offensive language to me... but it refers back to section 1C:
Section 1:
Section 4:
Sorry your going thru that... sometimes cya gets so out of hand at companies they lose the whole point why people came to them in the first place.
Right right, the Section 4 is basically just saying what they're going to do about it if you violate 1C
Also, I suppose it's the part that notifies you that it's monitoring in real time, but I'm cynical, so I always assumed that's true every moment I'm on the internet.
I still don't think 1C can be fairly read to reach VPN's doing their IP masking stuff. Everything in 1C referred to specific interactions with the platform, the game, or the servers of Activision.
I don't know, all this is academic, as they can claim anything is unauthorized post facto and there wouldn't be much we could do about it.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
This is absolutely true... no recourse except of course to quit playing... which is what started this discussion for me, didn't even want to consider that after years of investment - both in time and otherwise. Plus the enjoyment factor lol!
In any event, thanks for sharing your ideas, much appreciated!!
Another game just did this a month or so ago (I think it was a type of shooter) - but I can't remember any of the details. So I can't look to see how it has played out.
This is great but can you snip 1.C.?
Do you mean Valorant? That has been over a year now, but the problem was/is that their anti-cheat system works at ring 0. Which means that its booted up before the OS and has more rights than the admin. Oh, and the company is owned by the chinese giant tencent, wonder what they could do with such a software...
I have only two questions:
1 What's chinese government opinion on the topic - after all it would be a pity if the developers got their game banned on such a huge market (go go China!)?
2 How much we can sue Blizzard if they ever loose or have our data stolen. After all it's a ton of personal information?
Jokes aside, I understand they try to prevent boting but they are stepping a bit too far in my opinion.