I think Ogremancer is the king of the "meta counter" cards right now. He's one of the few cards I'm afraid of playing Token Druid (besides Counterspell and Oh My Yogg!) and I guess he's also quite frightening for Spell Mage and some of the other decks as well. It is a spell-heavy meta after all, so probably everything that counters spells is good.
Cards don’t counter decks, strategies do. One thing that I have noticed is the effect that losing mass silence or even just the 0 cost silence spell in priest has allowed many buff decks to flourish. I don’t think we would be in the situation we are right now if silence were better and more widely available.
Rush warrior has trouble with low minion decks. So poison rogue and spell mage can be a challenge.
Libram paladin hates silence, devolving missiles and bounce to hand. Having said that though, it’s going to end up best deck in the meta I think. There are fewer weaknesses than aggro paladin and just as many strengths.
Counters: Rush Warrior and Secret Paladin: Devolving Missiles is pretty good vs their buffed stuff Spell Mage & Token Druid: Cult Neophyte is the nuts, so is Ogremancer Libram Paladin: Blackjack Stunner and other Sap-like effects Control Priest: Tickatus and not much else Miracle Rogue: This deck has no really bad matchups and isn't very susceptible to tech cards. Best counter is...playing hunter?
Miracle Rogue: This deck has no really bad matchups and isn't very susceptible to tech cards. Best counter is...playing hunter?
According to HSReplay it has a 36% matchup vs Rush Warrior from Diamond to Legend. Against Secret Libram Paladin, Control Warrior and Control Priest it's deep in red too. From personal experience I can say that it didn't feel extremely challenging for Token Druid to beat either.
I've been playing quite a bit of Miracle Rogue lately and while my WR is not amazing it doesn't feel like any of the matchups is particularly bad. Rush Warrior is indeed a problem as the deck has very few answers to big buffed minions, but Libram Paladin, Control Warrior and Control Priest always felt like 50-50 matchups to me. Token Druid too and that with my deck where I don't even run Cult Neophytes. Apart from that OTK Demon Hunter is also not great matchup and neither is Face Hunter (but again close to 50-50 I'd estimate) Spell Mage, Control Warlock, other druid decks, other DH decks and aggro Paladins (non-Libram) are all good matchups I feel
I main control warlock so this is what I'm doing right now. I hope it's useful.
Rush warrior: The removal and healing warlock already has should be enough.
Libram paladin: Zul'jin is working great. It can support you to 1: Take from their hand liadrim and 2: if they already used all their librams on 1 minion, give it to their hand so you delete them. Also you can steal them with Silas, as you can use him as tech against control warrior. And ooze because they have like 3/4 weapons and it's also useful against weapon rogue. Ogre is also useful.
Spell mage: Ogre. But probably they can delete him easily, so just try to have board presence to mitigate the 10 split damage and use carefully your healing.
Token druid: This one is hard. Ogre and your removal (hysteria, 2 board damage...).
Secret paladin: This one is hard too because oh my yogg. Same as token druid. In general, agains aggro decks like this one and hunter, the taunt 2/4 heals 4 works so good.
Control priest: Tickatus kekw. If it's corrupt priest, just keep your removal to face them. It's easier than clown druid.
Miracle rogue: Use carefully your healing, also you can get alex from their hand with zul'jin.
Miracle Rogue: This deck has no really bad matchups and isn't very susceptible to tech cards. Best counter is...playing hunter?
According to HSReplay it has a 36% matchup vs Rush Warrior from Diamond to Legend. Against Secret Libram Paladin, Control Warrior and Control Priest it's deep in red too. From personal experience I can say that it didn't feel extremely challenging for Token Druid to beat either.
fyi, from today's VS report:
Miracle Rogue’s win rate correlates with its play rate, as it exhibits gradually stronger performance at higher levels of play. Its matchup spread is very balanced, giving the pilot the feeling that every matchup is ‘winnable’. That seems to carry some psychological value beyond its overall win rate.
which is exactly my feeling when playing this deck
Especially in a diverse meta like this. There's not enough weapon presence to really justify ooze. There are probably enough secrets to warrant some tech there, but the current secret tech is just awful. There's not enough combo to warrant hand disruption. The only viable "tech" card imo is Ogremancer, and that's because it's just an all-around good card. But even then, you don't want to force it; it needs to fit what your deck does and not replace a 5-drop more relevant to your win condition.
Especially in a diverse meta like this. There's not enough weapon presence to really justify ooze. There are probably enough secrets to warrant some tech there, but the current secret tech is just awful. There's not enough combo to warrant hand disruption. The only viable "tech" card imo is Ogremancer, and that's because it's just an all-around good card. But even then, you don't want to force it; it needs to fit what your deck does and not replace a 5-drop more relevant to your win condition.
I think ogremancer might be a bad card. While it’s an obvious tech choice to pressure spell heavy decks, I think the value it has is limited and a different 5 drop might be better in most cases. I don’t really have stats on it, but I see it played a lot and whenever I play it too, it seems to get removed immediately and it makes maybe one skeleton. It just seems to me like it never really stops a deck from doing what it wants to do, at best it delays it a turn but really it gets removed easily and it took your entire turn to cast it. It just seems like it might be too expensive and a tempo loss for a middling tech card. I could be wrong though.
I think it protects your board if you're playing a deck that runs mostly low HP minions (like secret Paladin). Low damage AOE becomes much less appealing for your opponent.
Conversely if you're playing a deck like control Warlock that really doesn't have anything to do in the mid-game, it can serve as a soft taunt and buy you an extra turn to get to your Twisting Nether and powerful late game stuff.
Like I said, it has to fit into your gameplan. I think early on streamers were just plugging into every deck because it generally gets value, but it didn't always make sense.
I think Ogremancer is the king of the "meta counter" cards right now. He's one of the few cards I'm afraid of playing Token Druid (besides Counterspell and Oh My Yogg!) and I guess he's also quite frightening for Spell Mage and some of the other decks as well. It is a spell-heavy meta after all, so probably everything that counters spells is good.
This is a great shout and it's a really good design in that it's tough to play around but not unfair and isn't completely useless against a non spell specific deck, something which utilises spells but isn't just centered around them.
Especially in a diverse meta like this. There's not enough weapon presence to really justify ooze. There are probably enough secrets to warrant some tech there, but the current secret tech is just awful. There's not enough combo to warrant hand disruption. The only viable "tech" card imo is Ogremancer, and that's because it's just an all-around good card. But even then, you don't want to force it; it needs to fit what your deck does and not replace a 5-drop more relevant to your win condition.
I think ogremancer might be a bad card. While it’s an obvious tech choice to pressure spell heavy decks, I think the value it has is limited and a different 5 drop might be better in most cases. I don’t really have stats on it, but I see it played a lot and whenever I play it too, it seems to get removed immediately and it makes maybe one skeleton. It just seems to me like it never really stops a deck from doing what it wants to do, at best it delays it a turn but really it gets removed easily and it took your entire turn to cast it. It just seems like it might be too expensive and a tempo loss for a middling tech card. I could be wrong though.
It's not a bad card. It's a bad tech card -- or rather, tech cards are usually bad, so you certainly shouldn't bog your deck down with one as expensive as Ogremancer.
However, in a deck where it makes sense anyway -- such as Control Warlock, which needs a bit of midgame pressure and defense to soak up some of the opponent's removal and other resources -- it's extremely good. I find your statement that it's "removed easily" rather odd. Yes, it does get removed quickly, but only because the opponent cannot afford to leave it on the board. However, quickly is not the same as easily. It nearly always trades at least two-for-one or eats a hard removal that the opponent would rather save for bigger threats down the line.
And, of course, data does exist. In decks that run it (not just tech it), its played win rate is quite good. It's definitely not the first card you'd cut. But it's true that you're not going to get anywhere by just tossing an Ogremancer into any old deck that's struggling against spells. If you do that, there's a good chance you become significantly weaker against minion-based decks (specifically Rush Warrior, which is too popular to ignore).
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which cards can counter todays meta decks for each one?
rash warrior: ?
secret paladin: ?
libram paladin: ?
spell mage: ?
token druid: ?
control priest: ?
miracle rogue: ?
Devolving Missiles can be pretty effective against a few of those decks.
I think Ogremancer is the king of the "meta counter" cards right now. He's one of the few cards I'm afraid of playing Token Druid (besides Counterspell and Oh My Yogg!) and I guess he's also quite frightening for Spell Mage and some of the other decks as well. It is a spell-heavy meta after all, so probably everything that counters spells is good.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
I think for Rash Warrior all you need is aloe vera.
Good one. :D
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
Cards don’t counter decks, strategies do. One thing that I have noticed is the effect that losing mass silence or even just the 0 cost silence spell in priest has allowed many buff decks to flourish. I don’t think we would be in the situation we are right now if silence were better and more widely available.
Rush warrior has trouble with low minion decks. So poison rogue and spell mage can be a challenge.
Libram paladin hates silence, devolving missiles and bounce to hand. Having said that though, it’s going to end up best deck in the meta I think. There are fewer weaknesses than aggro paladin and just as many strengths.
Counters:
Rush Warrior and Secret Paladin: Devolving Missiles is pretty good vs their buffed stuff
Spell Mage & Token Druid: Cult Neophyte is the nuts, so is Ogremancer
Libram Paladin: Blackjack Stunner and other Sap-like effects
Control Priest: Tickatus and not much else
Miracle Rogue: This deck has no really bad matchups and isn't very susceptible to tech cards. Best counter is...playing hunter?
According to HSReplay it has a 36% matchup vs Rush Warrior from Diamond to Legend. Against Secret Libram Paladin, Control Warrior and Control Priest it's deep in red too. From personal experience I can say that it didn't feel extremely challenging for Token Druid to beat either.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
I've been playing quite a bit of Miracle Rogue lately and while my WR is not amazing it doesn't feel like any of the matchups is particularly bad. Rush Warrior is indeed a problem as the deck has very few answers to big buffed minions, but Libram Paladin, Control Warrior and Control Priest always felt like 50-50 matchups to me. Token Druid too and that with my deck where I don't even run Cult Neophytes. Apart from that OTK Demon Hunter is also not great matchup and neither is Face Hunter (but again close to 50-50 I'd estimate)
Spell Mage, Control Warlock, other druid decks, other DH decks and aggro Paladins (non-Libram) are all good matchups I feel
Hsreplay -> Meta -> choose the type of deck -> matchups.
It's data from all ranks, but can give you the general picture
Silver Hand Recruit
my question was about cards. not decks.
some cards broke decks' snergy and those cards may not be meta today
I main control warlock so this is what I'm doing right now. I hope it's useful.
Rush warrior: The removal and healing warlock already has should be enough.
Libram paladin: Zul'jin is working great. It can support you to 1: Take from their hand liadrim and 2: if they already used all their librams on 1 minion, give it to their hand so you delete them. Also you can steal them with Silas, as you can use him as tech against control warrior. And ooze because they have like 3/4 weapons and it's also useful against weapon rogue. Ogre is also useful.
Spell mage: Ogre. But probably they can delete him easily, so just try to have board presence to mitigate the 10 split damage and use carefully your healing.
Token druid: This one is hard. Ogre and your removal (hysteria, 2 board damage...).
Secret paladin: This one is hard too because oh my yogg. Same as token druid. In general, agains aggro decks like this one and hunter, the taunt 2/4 heals 4 works so good.
Control priest: Tickatus kekw. If it's corrupt priest, just keep your removal to face them. It's easier than clown druid.
Miracle rogue: Use carefully your healing, also you can get alex from their hand with zul'jin.
fyi, from today's VS report:
which is exactly my feeling when playing this deck
I don't understand the purpose of this thread. Are you trying to add a bunch of tech cards to your favorite deck to make it "meta-proof"?
That's a good way to end up with a watered-down deck that can't win against anything.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
tech card bad.
Especially in a diverse meta like this. There's not enough weapon presence to really justify ooze. There are probably enough secrets to warrant some tech there, but the current secret tech is just awful. There's not enough combo to warrant hand disruption. The only viable "tech" card imo is Ogremancer, and that's because it's just an all-around good card. But even then, you don't want to force it; it needs to fit what your deck does and not replace a 5-drop more relevant to your win condition.
Here is everything u need to know when it comes to counters
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-196/
I think ogremancer might be a bad card. While it’s an obvious tech choice to pressure spell heavy decks, I think the value it has is limited and a different 5 drop might be better in most cases. I don’t really have stats on it, but I see it played a lot and whenever I play it too, it seems to get removed immediately and it makes maybe one skeleton. It just seems to me like it never really stops a deck from doing what it wants to do, at best it delays it a turn but really it gets removed easily and it took your entire turn to cast it. It just seems like it might be too expensive and a tempo loss for a middling tech card. I could be wrong though.
I think it protects your board if you're playing a deck that runs mostly low HP minions (like secret Paladin). Low damage AOE becomes much less appealing for your opponent.
Conversely if you're playing a deck like control Warlock that really doesn't have anything to do in the mid-game, it can serve as a soft taunt and buy you an extra turn to get to your Twisting Nether and powerful late game stuff.
Like I said, it has to fit into your gameplan. I think early on streamers were just plugging into every deck because it generally gets value, but it didn't always make sense.
This is a great shout and it's a really good design in that it's tough to play around but not unfair and isn't completely useless against a non spell specific deck, something which utilises spells but isn't just centered around them.
It's not a bad card. It's a bad tech card -- or rather, tech cards are usually bad, so you certainly shouldn't bog your deck down with one as expensive as Ogremancer.
However, in a deck where it makes sense anyway -- such as Control Warlock, which needs a bit of midgame pressure and defense to soak up some of the opponent's removal and other resources -- it's extremely good. I find your statement that it's "removed easily" rather odd. Yes, it does get removed quickly, but only because the opponent cannot afford to leave it on the board. However, quickly is not the same as easily. It nearly always trades at least two-for-one or eats a hard removal that the opponent would rather save for bigger threats down the line.
And, of course, data does exist. In decks that run it (not just tech it), its played win rate is quite good. It's definitely not the first card you'd cut. But it's true that you're not going to get anywhere by just tossing an Ogremancer into any old deck that's struggling against spells. If you do that, there's a good chance you become significantly weaker against minion-based decks (specifically Rush Warrior, which is too popular to ignore).
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland