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There's always going to be 'power creep', otherwise we'd just be stuck with slightly different versions of chill wind yeti, maybe a stat or two switch from attack to health or whatever and a different art style.
The game has to move on, evolve and progress. What was fun 5 years ago isn't fun anymore if that's all you've put out and you can't release hundreds of cards a year and just tweak the stat lines. You need to keep existing players interested and this means raising the power level over time.
I don't think I've played a game that is updated regularly that doesn't do this. New classes, moves and skill trees that get added are generally more powerful.
They tend to knock it down a touch on rotation but it's reasonable to me that throughout the 2 years of a rotation that the power of cards increases. I'd personally find it boring otherwise. I suspect others would too after years of the same sort of cards.
Yep, Wild still unplayable. Water nerf did nothing.
If you play Control decks, you are too slow and you are dead by turn 4/5.
If you play Aggro decks, they freeze your board and you are dead by turn 4/5.
Mage has always been the ultimate masturbation class, ignoring the opponent and satisfying themselves. But at least it took some time to get their combos going.
broom, heropower with the 8/8 demon to attack face in demon hunter? those seem pretty good and impossible if nzoth was 10 mana (w/o coin)
I mean it's been pretty obvious that they don't give a damn about wild really. "they want to wait for the meta to settle"
Secret mage has been a tier 1 deck for like over 3 years now and a 1 mana nerf to spring water will obviously not kill flamewaker mage.
Wild's meta will never settle with the current card release schedule will it?
@P4dge but that is a clear copout. It is possible to make interesting cards on budget, especially when you have Standard rotations to serve as artificial sources of scarcity to make those new cards playable compared to golden oldies. Indeed that was pretty much the excuse used to introduce Standard, which I also found a copout since it is an implicit admission by the devs that they are not clever enough to make cards that are both balanced and interesting. It shows incompetence and greed, because now newer packs are more worthwhile than old ones forcing you to constantly grow your collection aggressively, little to no advantage to old players. Powercreep does the same thing, so now we are doubly fucked for same reasons, incompetence and greed by Blizzard. Plus it is just aesthetically unpleasing, seeing how much worse old cards are than contemporary ones.
I don't know about other games as I don't play them, so someone else will have to either challenge you or back you that all card games powercreep over time. But I do know that I find this practice very disgusting and scummy and it is a big part of why Blizz won't see a dime from me.
Old packs are only less worthwhile if you play standard. Just play wild it’s mutch better and more diverse. If you play well and know the Meta, legend is easily achievable with a lot of off meta/ homebrew decks.
apm mage is common, but wasn’t op even before the nerfs. It was top of tier 3 and the nerfs made it even worse. There are a lot of hard counters like even Hunter odd dh secret mage/Reno mage with iceblock, pirate warrior should be good against it as well. Also, decks that to huge early and slower decks with techs like dirty rat, illucia, loatheb, cult neophyte. Darkglare is also favoured, as it goes wide and huge early, has a lot of burst and runs double neophyte. Murloc shaman should beat it up too. Of course, you can lose against it if they draw the giga nuts, but you will win way more than lose. Secret mage btw has an 80%+ winrate against apm mage. The deck will become less popular over time, as it is weak. And incanters flow will be nerfed sometime in the future because of standard.
Well. Battlegrounds is much improved.
Contrsucted standard is just a stream of paladins still. Very boring.
I think everyone is so dissatisfied because they took so long and you'd expect big changes. This wasn't worth the wait.
Mage got two nerfs and literally NOTHING changed. The cancer remains
Am I the only one who would love an old fashioned arrangement where we meet the players piloting busted decks in person so that we can settle our disputes in a meaningful way?
Bonus points because the dentist archetypes would get an indirect buff. Good for everybody’!
The Refreshing Spring Water "nerf" is nice... now it activates Ring Toss as well.
Cancer cells love a rich blood supply my dude
There's a thread about Hysteria but as usual focused on stats and class performance overlooking the bigger picture. So in the light of this thread some observations.
1. It isn't helpfull to talk about 'nerfs' as the stats changed but the meta is barely effected. So what is the point? It's more helpfull to tak about player engagement changes. The other frame of 'nerfs' called balance changes is also not helpful as this game isn't about balance and to be viewed as a misleading euphemism when player engagement wavers. The idea is that if player engament drops card changes are immanent.
2. Then Hystera. This is one of the few cards or maybe the ony card that has undergone player engagement changes twice within the same expansion. The first one was 'silently' done. The beloved aggro-burn crowd complained combo with big friendly minions which created a major board clear. The second change is more interesting and has to do with the meta. First let's review the arguments:
Argument [1] A wierd argument. It might be possible that I don't understand what is meant here, but it beats me. Does the opponent get the 'opportunity to consider how to best ineract with it' at 4 manna? Why then does opportunity arise at 4 manna? Why not 5 or 6 manna? How can you interact with a card that isn't played yet? It's a spell not a minion.
Argument [2] Is more understandable. I reason at the request from the aggro-burn target audience that is destined to rule the meta (Paladin Mage).
3. So if the OP is dissapointed remember that the aggro-burn crowd isn't. Player agagement means serving their demands.
4. So why Hysteria? ...because Tickatis wasn't 'nerfed.' Complaining about it also means player engagement. As a political card Tickatus keeps control in check giving way to the desired meta dominance of paladin and mage. The beloved target audience doesn't mind so no 'nerf.' The obvious choice was Hysteria. To tone down Warlock a bit. But the victim of all card design and player engagement-politcs is of course Priest. But since Priest players rest assured to be the wallpaper crowd playing a wallpaper class and only a nuisance to the target audience, keeping them in check doesn't hurt.
The politics of card design and the politics of player engagement says it all. But the pseudo-intellectualis and other stats-fetishists may think differently.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Regarding your response to Argument 1 ("How can you interact with a card that isn't played yet?"), this is what's called "playing around" a card. If you're facing a Warlock or Priest in the current meta, you know that it's possible -- even likely -- that they have Hysteria in their deck, if not their hand. So you know that it can turn your minions against each other. This affects your decisions of which minions to play, and even the decision of whether to play a minion at all.
If the board is completely empty, playing one minion isn't much of a problem. Hysteria can't affect it without another minion to knock it into. And that's where the mana costs come into play. If I know my opponent has to pay 3 mana for their Hysteria, then I know which of my minions might be susceptible to any minions they might play on their turn to crash my guy into. If the opponent has a coin, then I should be avoiding playing 1- or 2-health minions, because they could coin out a 2-attack 1-drop and Hysteria my minion into it. If no coin, then I should be safe with 2+ health minions, because what are they going to do, Murloc Tinyfin me? I'll take my chances.
But it also means that I have to be wary of committing two minions of my own. If I play a 1/4 and a 2/2 against a Priest who will have max 3 mana next turn, I'm just handing my opponent a Hysteria-able board. Easy clear, no problem. I just wasted two minions. But if I know that Hysteria costs 4, then I'm safe to play those two minions this turn, because I know Hysteria isn't coming for at least another turn (mana-reduction shenanigans aside).
It's the same math you always have to do against removal. In the olden times, playing 4-health minions into Mage's 7-mana turn was a risky move. You could easily get Flamestrike-d (now you need 6-health minions to survive that). Playing high-attack or equal-stat minions into Priest's 7-mana turn means there's a good chance you could get Soul Mirror'd in response. Good players will evaluate these possibilities, and play their turn accordingly. Maybe you bait out the removal without fully committing stuff you could have played. Maybe you prioritize playing a single minion that could survive the opponent's "clear" cards, whether through high health or a deathrattle that leaves a minion behind for you. But if you just plow forward with your gameplan, heedless of how the opponent might respond, that's pretty naive.
TL;DR: You've always been able to play around removal before the spell is actually cast, and Hysteria is no exception to this fundamental Hearthstone skill.
Hysteria nerf was about as dumb as not touching Incanter's Flow. Just made zero sense. It's not like Warlock or Priest were locking games down with it. Priest needed it more than anything to maintain what success they are capable of. Warlock was just...well irrelevant with or without it. SMH.
Hi! I would like to play shaman
https://hsreplay.net/decks/#playerClasses=SHAMAN&gameType=RANKED_STANDARD
But there are no shaman decks found...
Wild is wild. There's too many crazy things to play in wild to justify making it truly balanced. I figured this was the purpose of wild anyway considering you have access to every card in the game. Hence the name "Wild". If anything it's more like a battle of all time greats, and in some cases new challengers arise with each rotation. I've created some crazy decks in wild.
You're basing it off of the previous meta, though. You have to account for how the deck will fare when its bad matchups are weakened or see less play.
Priest is in a dangerous place because there's not much viable combo deck representation out there right now. Really the only things keeping the deck in check are spell mage and warlock. Spell Mage got another nerf, and Warlock is long overdue to see its play rate drop to be more in line with its power level. Meanwhile secret pally got hit with a couple of nerfs that could swing the matchup to favorable for the Priest as well.
We'll see how things shake out, but I think it was a good anticipatory nerf, at least in regards to Priest. Maybe Warlock didn't deserve it, but I suppose that's the peril of dual class cards.
I knew someone would come up with the playing around argument. But that doesn't answer my question: why hysteria and why 4 manna does the playing around 'balance', let alone then that this argument would count for every card available, so it isn't an argument specific for Hysteria.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.