While i don't disagree with all the points, I have to be honest and say that through several hundred games since Hysteria has been around I don't think i've used it on turn 3 THAT often. You use yours that often on turn 3?
Wow, Paladin got buffed hardcore with the First Day of School “nerf”. I always have a full hand and board and have constant advantage. Plus the chances of generating a really good 1 Mana minion are high. I love it 🥰
I would like some help from this community ending systemic class warfare brought on by Blizzard against my people. The Shaman class is a noble and ancient one in Hearthstone that deserves equality. If Fiendish Circle is 3 Mana it is only Fair that Call in the Finishers also cost 3 Mana. Demons have just as much synergy if not more than Murlocs historically in Hearthstone. Justice is all I seek.
I love how everyone's acting like you can't have Kazakus and Hysteria in the same deck anymore. With the sheer amount of spell-generation in Priest, there are plenty of bites at the Hysteria-apple even if you don't run it in your decklist (to satisfy Kazakus's deck-building condition).
While i don't disagree with all the points, I have to be honest and say that through several hundred games since Hysteria has been around I don't think i've used it on turn 3 THAT often. You use yours that often on turn 3?
Nope. Unless there was enough attack on board to kill a Crabrider. The real nerf is in the Kazakus anti-synergy.
Hysteria is still completely broken at 4 mana. It still can easily clear a full board in the late game. Also, don't forget, a priest usually has to pull one or two of the 100 "created by" abilities to get one at the right time. If the priest is unlucky, he just gets another Soul Mirror. /salt
I dont see any change in meta. People still play same decks. Hunter is on the rise, so warriors also became more popular, but all in all its paladins and mages... No buffed card except for Nzoth see play
I dont see any change in meta. People still play same decks. Hunter is on the rise, so warriors also became more popular, but all in all its paladins and mages... No buffed card except for Nzoth see play
It hasn't even been 24 hours. A lot of people are sticking with known decks because they don't know what else is good yet. That doesn't mean nothing else is good.
The purpose of the changes wasn't to kill existing decks, so it makes sense that you'd still see them and that they are still viable. The purpose was to give other decks a bit of breathing room -- you won't see that for a few more days until streamers have a chance to show the huddled masses the way.
(In other words, most players are very bad at choosing decks for themselves. It takes a minute for newly viable archetypes to spread.)
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I dont see any change in meta. People still play same decks. Hunter is on the rise, so warriors also became more popular, but all in all its paladins and mages... No buffed card except for Nzoth see play
It hasn't even been 24 hours. A lot of people are sticking with known decks because they don't know what else is good yet. That doesn't mean nothing else is good.
The purpose of the changes wasn't to kill existing decks, so it makes sense that you'd still see them and that they are still viable. The purpose was to give other decks a bit of breathing room -- you won't see that for a few more days until streamers have a chance to show the huddled masses the way.
(In other words, most players are very bad at choosing decks for themselves. It takes a minute for newly viable archetypes to spread.)
Exactly. People said the same thing right after the DoL nerf. Within a week, DoL's playrate had dropped significantly. I barely see it anymore (though, in fairness, I play more Wild than Standard).
First day: this is a huge nerf, only reason to play it was 0 mana plus 1 and getting a 1 drop consistently on 1 without having to run more than one or two of them. It was a tempo and value play, now it’s just slow value.
spring water: huge difference, because it comes down 1 turn later, isn’t free anymore and only ramps after being hit by two discounts. Btw, despite apm mage being the most played deck in wild, it’s only Tier 3 (before the nerfs)(read vs Report, arguments without statistics are no arguments but opinions)
hysteria: don’t know if necessary but a huge nerf (but a great buff for even warlock!). One turn is often the difference between winning and losing, as is 1 spare mana to eg smite something that survived (btw holy smite is better then or at least as strong as penance, someone argued it being worse)
crabrider: best nerf, it still keeps its ability as an early game clear that leaves a body but loses the blow out potential. Together with first day a big hit for handbuff pala in wild
mankrik: depends on the deck its played. Still good.
buffs: they where minor. Maybe findish rites in some kind of demon Zoo or with juggler /councilman in wild but still bad. Deck of Chaos still way too slow (hopefully, if not it would be a horrible meta) the shaman cards got better, but it won’t be enough I believe (for standard, in wild murloc shaman is tier 1, even shaman and big shaman are quite good, and Reno shudderwock is somewhat playable).
what they didn’t nerf:
tickatus: doesn’t deserve a nerf. The numbers show it’s just bad so no point even Talking about it. If it’s changed it should be buffed.
conviction: should have been hit (at least from a wild point of view) but I get that they didn Want to hit pala to hard in standard.
oh my yogg: needs no nerf. Learn to play and accept that sometimes you lose games.
incanters flow: should have been lunacyed to 4 (at least 3) mana. / not less than one. I predict that this will happen later
I agree with you on most things. When it comes to Paladin, I think they made great changes with respect to the general Pala gameplay. It's a class designed to be extremely good when they have the board and pretty bad when not. In that regard, I think Conviction - though a really strong card - is barely alright, as you need the board to make use of it (other than Fireball that some people compare it to). The fact that you can't abuse it for double face damage with a Crabrider is a huge indirect nerf to the card.
By the same token, I like the nerf to First Day of School. It doesn't give you that immediate board presence anymore that made aggressive Paladin decks so oppressive. Instead now you get more value to come back on board later, but not to an excessive degree, as 1-drops usually aren't that strong later on.
I would have loved to see the addition "but not less than 1" to Incanter's Flow. Zero cost spells have repeatedly proven to be problematic and this together with the nerf to Refreshing Spring Water would have made that Spell Mage deck feel a lot more fair I think, without completely killing it.
Nothing has changed much, still all Pallys and Mage with the odd bore-fest Priest in Diamond
Mages?
Win-rate doesn't equal play-rate. That tier list may show how successful those decks are, but it doesn't show how common they are on ladder.
While it's almost self evident that the most powerful deck will be the most common one, and I've made that argument before, that doesn't mean that decks/classes that don't show up here aren't being played at all.
Nothing has changed much, still all Pallys and Mage with the odd bore-fest Priest in Diamond
Mages?
Win-rate doesn't equal play-rate. That tier list may show how successful those decks are, but it doesn't show how common they are on ladder.
While it's almost self evident that the most powerful deck will be the most common one, and I've made that argument before, that doesn't mean that decks/classes that don't show up here aren't being played at all.
But don't you think it would be fair to give it more than one day for those Mage players to back off from an archetype that isn't winning as much as it used to? Complaining about which archetypes you are playing against doesn't make as much sense as talking about specific interactions during game play and how the balance changes affected those.
Blizzard cannot directly control which decks people choose to play.
Let's just hope all the fools who were crying about Refreshing Spring Water realize after a few games that the deck is still broken and that Refreshing Spring Water wasn't the problem.
Rsw at 5 slows the deck down you have plenty of time to do dmg stop bitching.
I posit the key lesson: it's often ineffective to use targeted nerfs to fix widespread and determined power creep.
I counterpose that that was never the intent, nor it is a desirable, achievable or realistic goal.
Why would you be pro-powercreep? At the very least it long-term devalues your collection since the newest cards will be more powerful and hence more desirable. Only the newest players benefit from it and only while they are new. And ofc Blizzard which through this inflation of cards forces you to buy more new packs to stay ahead. And if I wanted to list the bad sides of powercreep I could write pages. Really makes no sense to me.
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While i don't disagree with all the points, I have to be honest and say that through several hundred games since Hysteria has been around I don't think i've used it on turn 3 THAT often. You use yours that often on turn 3?
Wow, Paladin got buffed hardcore with the First Day of School “nerf”. I always have a full hand and board and have constant advantage. Plus the chances of generating a really good 1 Mana minion are high. I love it 🥰
I would like some help from this community ending systemic class warfare brought on by Blizzard against my people. The Shaman class is a noble and ancient one in Hearthstone that deserves equality. If Fiendish Circle is 3 Mana it is only Fair that Call in the Finishers also cost 3 Mana. Demons have just as much synergy if not more than Murlocs historically in Hearthstone. Justice is all I seek.
I love how everyone's acting like you can't have Kazakus and Hysteria in the same deck anymore. With the sheer amount of spell-generation in Priest, there are plenty of bites at the Hysteria-apple even if you don't run it in your decklist (to satisfy Kazakus's deck-building condition).
You've got Renew, you have Palm Reading, there's Venomous Scorpid (who can also take out a minion or two on the way), not to mention Sethekk Veilweaver.
Sure, it won't be as reliable, but it's not "goodbye forever," it's "see you around."
Nope. Unless there was enough attack on board to kill a Crabrider. The real nerf is in the Kazakus anti-synergy.
Hysteria is still completely broken at 4 mana. It still can easily clear a full board in the late game. Also, don't forget, a priest usually has to pull one or two of the 100 "created by" abilities to get one at the right time. If the priest is unlucky, he just gets another Soul Mirror. /salt
I dont see any change in meta. People still play same decks. Hunter is on the rise, so warriors also became more popular, but all in all its paladins and mages... No buffed card except for Nzoth see play
It hasn't even been 24 hours. A lot of people are sticking with known decks because they don't know what else is good yet. That doesn't mean nothing else is good.
The purpose of the changes wasn't to kill existing decks, so it makes sense that you'd still see them and that they are still viable. The purpose was to give other decks a bit of breathing room -- you won't see that for a few more days until streamers have a chance to show the huddled masses the way.
(In other words, most players are very bad at choosing decks for themselves. It takes a minute for newly viable archetypes to spread.)
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Exactly. People said the same thing right after the DoL nerf. Within a week, DoL's playrate had dropped significantly. I barely see it anymore (though, in fairness, I play more Wild than Standard).
I agree with you on most things. When it comes to Paladin, I think they made great changes with respect to the general Pala gameplay. It's a class designed to be extremely good when they have the board and pretty bad when not. In that regard, I think Conviction - though a really strong card - is barely alright, as you need the board to make use of it (other than Fireball that some people compare it to). The fact that you can't abuse it for double face damage with a Crabrider is a huge indirect nerf to the card.
By the same token, I like the nerf to First Day of School. It doesn't give you that immediate board presence anymore that made aggressive Paladin decks so oppressive. Instead now you get more value to come back on board later, but not to an excessive degree, as 1-drops usually aren't that strong later on.
I would have loved to see the addition "but not less than 1" to Incanter's Flow. Zero cost spells have repeatedly proven to be problematic and this together with the nerf to Refreshing Spring Water would have made that Spell Mage deck feel a lot more fair I think, without completely killing it.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
Nothing has changed much, still all Pallys and Mage with the odd bore-fest Priest in Diamond
Exactly, no more insanely buffed crabriders or well-curved boards with 1-cost minions by First Day of School
Aggro and secret paladin still have good packages and the annoying yogg secret, but at least they can be counterplayed
Mages?
Win-rate doesn't equal play-rate.
That tier list may show how successful those decks are, but it doesn't show how common they are on ladder.
While it's almost self evident that the most powerful deck will be the most common one, and I've made that argument before, that doesn't mean that decks/classes that don't show up here aren't being played at all.
please don't bully my son
But don't you think it would be fair to give it more than one day for those Mage players to back off from an archetype that isn't winning as much as it used to? Complaining about which archetypes you are playing against doesn't make as much sense as talking about specific interactions during game play and how the balance changes affected those.
Blizzard cannot directly control which decks people choose to play.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I posit the key lesson: it's often ineffective to use targeted nerfs to fix widespread and determined power creep.
I counterpose that that was never the intent, nor it is a desirable, achievable or realistic goal.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Rsw at 5 slows the deck down you have plenty of time to do dmg stop bitching.
My control warrior deck is suddenly p okay to play today with the N'Zoth buff. I think the ceiling is high for ole Zothy.
Why would you be pro-powercreep? At the very least it long-term devalues your collection since the newest cards will be more powerful and hence more desirable. Only the newest players benefit from it and only while they are new. And ofc Blizzard which through this inflation of cards forces you to buy more new packs to stay ahead. And if I wanted to list the bad sides of powercreep I could write pages. Really makes no sense to me.