I wish they removed tidal surge completely and changed torrent to cost 5 mana with the effect that when it cost 5 mana it has life steal and when it cost 1 mana it does not... so basically it worked with groundskeeper..
Is a nice change I dont understand the state of groundskeeper in the modern Shaman, whit only one Spell to accomplish the effect I think thats is ridiculous.
And thinking in solutions from shaman, another approach is merge the mecanic of Elementals and Spells, If the last turn you play a Elemental or a Spell ... that way is more easy activate the effects and this way win tempo in cascade
I can't believe you people are acting like Tinyfin's Caravan doesn't count as card draw!
Seriously, though, I suspect (though I have no source to back the theory up) that Team 5 sees Shaman as the "random" class, and they therefore prefer to give it more random resource generation than actual card draw. And to be fair, Shaman does have a LOT of random value generation. Maybe they think it would be too much value if you could draw cards in addition to all that?
I'm not saying it's a correct way of thinking, just that it's the argument they might make.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I can't believe you people are acting like Tinyfin's Caravan doesn't count as card draw!
Seriously, though, I suspect (though I have no source to back the theory up) that Team 5 sees Shaman as the "random" class, and they therefore prefer to give it more random resource generation than actual card draw. And to be fair, Shaman does have a LOT of random value generation. Maybe they think it would be too much value if you could draw cards in addition to all that?
I'm not saying it's a correct way of thinking, just that it's the argument they might make.
They certainly have a lot of random card generation. Though I wouldn't call it value generation given that 90% of it is just removal that ends up clogging up your hand in control matchups.
Contrast that with a class like Priest that churns out 9+ cost dragons, extra minions via Raise Dead, and actually has a few proactive spells (Idol of Y'Shaarj, Auspicious Spirits, spells that copy & buff minions other than totems).
Shaman would be a much more interesting class if they could generate things that allow them to pressure rather than pretty much entirely reactive spells. That's how control Shaman felt to me in previous xpacs. Not that it was ever a strong deck, but it could at least put out consistent pressure in control matchups.
One thing strikes me: I don't think Shaman would need a tonne more draw to become noticeably stronger. Paladin might be awash with draw--three different two-of cards which replace themselves, plus the weapon to pull out secrets. But that's not necessarily typical. Some solid decks like Rush Warrior and Face Hunter can run as little as 3-5 total draw cards.
Cagematch Custodian is a nice little card, and if Shaman got the equivalent of the old Mage card Bonfire Elemental, plus something kinda like Ringmaster Whatley or Barak Kodobane for a solid midgame reload (even if it requires specific deckbuilding), that might be enough to make a pretty reasonable Shaman deck. Just getting a little bit more probably makes a big difference, even if Shaman draw never rivals Rogue draw.
One thing strikes me: I don't think Shaman would need a tonne more draw to become noticeably stronger. Paladin might be awash with draw--three different two-of cards which replace themselves, plus the weapon to pull out secrets. But that's not necessarily typical. Some solid decks like Rush Warrior and Face Hunter can run as little as 3-5 total draw cards.
Cagematch Custodian is a nice little card, and if Shaman got the equivalent of the old Mage card Bonfire Elemental, plus something kinda like Ringmaster Whatley or Barak Kodobane for a solid midgame reload (even if it requires specific deckbuilding), that might be enough to make a pretty reasonable Shaman deck. Just getting a little bit more probably makes a big difference, even if Shaman draw never rivals Rogue draw.
I agree, at least with Elemental. Late game reload would be nice, but I don't find myself short resources while moving through the curve. Issues are much more with the lack of mana cheat, ability to create a resilient/sticky board, and ability to leverage your board with buffs. Having more good minions in my hand doesn't really solve any of that. Just need a way to discount the ones I already have or make them harder to remove.
I hope that these shaman buff are just a preparation for the mini-expansion set that will occur next. Unbound Elemental need another Overlead synergy to be REALLY good and Lilypad Lurker is waiting on more elemental and card draw. Just print a 4 mana 4/5 elemental that draw a card if you played an elemental last turn and you are good.
One thing strikes me: I don't think Shaman would need a tonne more draw to become noticeably stronger. Paladin might be awash with draw--three different two-of cards which replace themselves, plus the weapon to pull out secrets. But that's not necessarily typical. Some solid decks like Rush Warrior and Face Hunter can run as little as 3-5 total draw cards.
Cagematch Custodian is a nice little card, and if Shaman got the equivalent of the old Mage card Bonfire Elemental, plus something kinda like Ringmaster Whatley or Barak Kodobane for a solid midgame reload (even if it requires specific deckbuilding), that might be enough to make a pretty reasonable Shaman deck. Just getting a little bit more probably makes a big difference, even if Shaman draw never rivals Rogue draw.
I agree, at least with Elemental. Late game reload would be nice, but I don't find myself short resources while moving through the curve. Issues are much more with the lack of mana cheat, ability to create a resilient/sticky board, and ability to leverage your board with buffs. Having more good minions in my hand doesn't really solve any of that. Just need a way to discount the ones I already have or make them harder to remove.
you need a way to discount and value? you mean like Far Sight and Ancestral Spirit which was in part of the classic set and not added to the core set?
cards like Far Sight and Ancestral Spirit are important in order to setup your board as a shaman, especially since you will most likely be overloaded if you do it with a Earth Elemental so you need to make sure you don't get hard punished...
man blizzard team have no idea about what shaman is or how to play it... noobs
cards like Far Sight and Ancestral Spirit are important in order to setup your board as a shaman, especially since you will most likely be overloaded if you do it with a Earth Elemental so you need to make sure you don't get hard punished...
With rush minions and power creep, there is no time to set up anything unless you can cheat out a 9+ mana minion on the board before turn 6.
Reintroducing cards like Totem Golem, Thing from Below and other strong totem/overload cards would be the most obvious way back to viability for Shaman imo. The mechanics are fine, they just need the right cost and synergies.
used to be viable if you got him or the ancestral discounted by a farsight and ofc played together maybe even with a board clear.. it worked for me really succesfully, even did it with totems decks doomsayer + far sight on turn 4 was a real issue for an aggro decks
It's no magic bullet but Totemic Reflection + Grand Totem Eys'or seems to be a bit of a sleeper. Not playing top 100 but a lot of decks I've found are struggling to deal with 2 3/7's plus all the buffs they give, especially if you can play it turn 5/6, and especially if they survive a turn. Trick Totem has trolled me far too many times though.
Is a nice change I dont understand the state of groundskeeper in the modern Shaman, whit only one Spell to accomplish the effect I think thats is ridiculous.
And thinking in solutions from shaman, another approach is merge the mecanic of Elementals and Spells, If the last turn you play a Elemental or a Spell ... that way is more easy activate the effects and this way win tempo in cascade
What do Blizzard want us to do with these shit.ty elemental buffs?
Really?
Quote from a post;
"How can you win a card game without card draw?"
Can't agree more.
I can't believe you people are acting like Tinyfin's Caravan doesn't count as card draw!
Seriously, though, I suspect (though I have no source to back the theory up) that Team 5 sees Shaman as the "random" class, and they therefore prefer to give it more random resource generation than actual card draw. And to be fair, Shaman does have a LOT of random value generation. Maybe they think it would be too much value if you could draw cards in addition to all that?
I'm not saying it's a correct way of thinking, just that it's the argument they might make.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I think they are preparing for the mini set.
shaman is too complex for them to figure out, all the played last turn and overload is too much for them to figure out
They certainly have a lot of random card generation. Though I wouldn't call it value generation given that 90% of it is just removal that ends up clogging up your hand in control matchups.
Contrast that with a class like Priest that churns out 9+ cost dragons, extra minions via Raise Dead, and actually has a few proactive spells (Idol of Y'Shaarj, Auspicious Spirits, spells that copy & buff minions other than totems).
Shaman would be a much more interesting class if they could generate things that allow them to pressure rather than pretty much entirely reactive spells. That's how control Shaman felt to me in previous xpacs. Not that it was ever a strong deck, but it could at least put out consistent pressure in control matchups.
also side note unbound elemental still don't work with guidance when you choose to overload... xD
One thing strikes me: I don't think Shaman would need a tonne more draw to become noticeably stronger. Paladin might be awash with draw--three different two-of cards which replace themselves, plus the weapon to pull out secrets. But that's not necessarily typical. Some solid decks like Rush Warrior and Face Hunter can run as little as 3-5 total draw cards.
Cagematch Custodian is a nice little card, and if Shaman got the equivalent of the old Mage card Bonfire Elemental, plus something kinda like Ringmaster Whatley or Barak Kodobane for a solid midgame reload (even if it requires specific deckbuilding), that might be enough to make a pretty reasonable Shaman deck. Just getting a little bit more probably makes a big difference, even if Shaman draw never rivals Rogue draw.
I agree, at least with Elemental. Late game reload would be nice, but I don't find myself short resources while moving through the curve. Issues are much more with the lack of mana cheat, ability to create a resilient/sticky board, and ability to leverage your board with buffs. Having more good minions in my hand doesn't really solve any of that. Just need a way to discount the ones I already have or make them harder to remove.
I hope that these shaman buff are just a preparation for the mini-expansion set that will occur next. Unbound Elemental need another Overlead synergy to be REALLY good and Lilypad Lurker is waiting on more elemental and card draw. Just print a 4 mana 4/5 elemental that draw a card if you played an elemental last turn and you are good.
Maybe they should learn the obvious lesson from Duels that Overload only works when it doesn't actually Overload you.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
you need a way to discount and value? you mean like Far Sight and Ancestral Spirit which was in part of the classic set and not added to the core set?
I used to play a deck back in the days centered around big taunts like Earth Elemental White Eyes and Ragnaros the Firelord
cards like Far Sight and Ancestral Spirit are important in order to setup your board as a shaman, especially since you will most likely be overloaded if you do it with a Earth Elemental so you need to make sure you don't get hard punished...
man blizzard team have no idea about what shaman is or how to play it... noobs
With rush minions and power creep, there is no time to set up anything unless you can cheat out a 9+ mana minion on the board before turn 6.
Earth Elemental is just not viable.
Reintroducing cards like Totem Golem, Thing from Below and other strong totem/overload cards would be the most obvious way back to viability for Shaman imo. The mechanics are fine, they just need the right cost and synergies.
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used to be viable if you got him or the ancestral discounted by a farsight and ofc played together maybe even with a board clear.. it worked for me really succesfully, even did it with totems decks doomsayer + far sight on turn 4 was a real issue for an aggro decks
XD < this was the only comment possible for such buffs. OP got the point
It's no magic bullet but Totemic Reflection + Grand Totem Eys'or seems to be a bit of a sleeper. Not playing top 100 but a lot of decks I've found are struggling to deal with 2 3/7's plus all the buffs they give, especially if you can play it turn 5/6, and especially if they survive a turn. Trick Totem has trolled me far too many times though.
It's sad because it's true.
I love you Dreadsteed, I will never disenchant you!