I do think it's powerful. I think the real problem lies that creating cards that affect your whole deck (this, Prince Keleseth, Deck of Lunacy have a very polarising power level depending on when in the game you draw it. Play it on curve and you win, draw it late and it's a dead card.
We've learned that a turn 6, do nothing but affect your whole deck Deck of Chaos is too low tempo. But playing one of these style cards on Turn 2 or 3 can win you the game right there. Invigorating Sermon at turn 4 seems well balanced. The nice thing about Sermon is that it's not an entirely dead draw when you draw it late in the game either.
Well, Deck of Chaos has another big issue. To make it work, you have to build your entire deck around it, using objectively bad minions and hoping to play DoC (which is single card without any way to tutor it) before you draw them. It's abysmal for 6 mana, but in my opinion it wouldn't be much better even for 4 (because if you don't draw it, you just play bad deck). Incanter's Flow, on the other hand, can buff any spell in your deck (and it's 100% spells), so you aren't limited in any way while constructing it. Deck of Lunacy is more comparable to Deck of Chaos, but again, it doesn't restrict your deck, just improving already strong package of cards. That's why Lunacy Mage could win games even without drawing DoL early enough and that's why non-DoL NMM still exists and does pretty well.
As if all classes don't have something considered 'OP' to those who never play them. Mage isn't OP, it's very beatable with the likes of Paladin [who has a bunch of annoying cards that could do with fixing] Hubter, Warrior, Priest, Rogue ... can all beat Mage if they draw good first
7 mages, all running pretty much identical decks and 1 priest in European top 8. I’m not sure any mage card is OP on it’s own but the synergy between them all is just off the scale. Why even risk running lunacy when you can just burn face turn after turn with ease.
As if all classes don't have something considered 'OP' to those who never play them. Mage isn't OP, it's very beatable with the likes of Paladin [who has a bunch of annoying cards that could do with fixing] Hubter, Warrior, Priest, Rogue ... can all beat Mage if they draw good first
'If I draw good first' is a terrible point. You could literally win with any deck if you get good draws and your opponent doesn't. And the problem isn't Mage being unbeatable or anything. It's the absurd amount of mana cheat and highroll potential they have with Incanter's Flow.
7 mages, all running pretty much identical decks and 1 priest in European top 8. I’m not sure any mage card is OP on it’s own but the synergy between them all is just off the scale. Why even risk running lunacy when you can just burn face turn after turn with ease.
Yup! Thijs played 3 flows to RDU's one, and it didn't matter, it was the synergy of what they drew after that made the difference - it certainly is a strong card played early but all classes have their OP cards
I hit legend easy last month (only 4 losses) with a deck that had two copies of Invigorating Sermon. It's a strong card if it comes out early. You just don't see people playing it because most people copy decks rather than being creative :)
Theres no sense on playing that card in paly when yo can play an OP card in curve that hits face just like every paladin card does
Yeah,but some people play for fun .. they ladder to D5 or to legend and then the memes start.I did play a lot of sermon in a divine shield tempo rush build of my own.and its actually working great.i had good times vs secret pala or vs rush warrior. But in this meta it defenetly is expendive at 4 mana.The trick is to develop and win the board before u play the sermon.and its gg.
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Anyone else watching how disgusting Incanter’s flow is in GM? Games lasting about 3 minutes. 🤣
I don't need to watch GM to know how disgusting that card is. I already see it enough on turn 2.
Its not even that card, its the sheer amount of card draw making Mage a rather ....unpleasant class.
I still hate Refreshing Spring Water more...
I do think it's powerful. I think the real problem lies that creating cards that affect your whole deck (this, Prince Keleseth, Deck of Lunacy have a very polarising power level depending on when in the game you draw it. Play it on curve and you win, draw it late and it's a dead card.
We've learned that a turn 6, do nothing but affect your whole deck Deck of Chaos is too low tempo. But playing one of these style cards on Turn 2 or 3 can win you the game right there. Invigorating Sermon at turn 4 seems well balanced. The nice thing about Sermon is that it's not an entirely dead draw when you draw it late in the game either.
Hence nobody plays that card, lul.
Well, Deck of Chaos has another big issue. To make it work, you have to build your entire deck around it, using objectively bad minions and hoping to play DoC (which is single card without any way to tutor it) before you draw them. It's abysmal for 6 mana, but in my opinion it wouldn't be much better even for 4 (because if you don't draw it, you just play bad deck). Incanter's Flow, on the other hand, can buff any spell in your deck (and it's 100% spells), so you aren't limited in any way while constructing it. Deck of Lunacy is more comparable to Deck of Chaos, but again, it doesn't restrict your deck, just improving already strong package of cards. That's why Lunacy Mage could win games even without drawing DoL early enough and that's why non-DoL NMM still exists and does pretty well.
Dont worry, its gonna be ultra nerfed
Devolving missiles...why is no one talking about this card?
As if all classes don't have something considered 'OP' to those who never play them. Mage isn't OP, it's very beatable with the likes of Paladin [who has a bunch of annoying cards that could do with fixing] Hubter, Warrior, Priest, Rogue ... can all beat Mage if they draw good first
Mage with incanters flow in turn 2 just beats everything, just like paly with the murloc in turn 1
7 mages, all running pretty much identical decks and 1 priest in European top 8. I’m not sure any mage card is OP on it’s own but the synergy between them all is just off the scale. Why even risk running lunacy when you can just burn face turn after turn with ease.
'If I draw good first' is a terrible point. You could literally win with any deck if you get good draws and your opponent doesn't. And the problem isn't Mage being unbeatable or anything. It's the absurd amount of mana cheat and highroll potential they have with Incanter's Flow.
I told people in this forum that nerfing Deck of Lunacy would not be close to enough to shut down this deck
But as usual, the mage mains tried hard to defend their broken toy
Flow and Spring Water need Warsong Treatment. And then, priest need the warsong treatment.
Wrong, I do and it is indeed balanced and strong, it would be OP at 3 mana, just like incanter's flow is OP at 2.
"nobody" = netdeckers
Because there is nothing wrong with that card
Yup! Thijs played 3 flows to RDU's one, and it didn't matter, it was the synergy of what they drew after that made the difference - it certainly is a strong card played early but all classes have their OP cards
Nobody= nobody
Theres no sense on playing that card in paly when yo can play an OP card in curve that hits face just like every paladin card does
I hit legend easy last month (only 4 losses) with a deck that had two copies of Invigorating Sermon. It's a strong card if it comes out early. You just don't see people playing it because most people copy decks rather than being creative :)
Yeah,but some people play for fun .. they ladder to D5 or to legend and then the memes start.I did play a lot of sermon in a divine shield tempo rush build of my own.and its actually working great.i had good times vs secret pala or vs rush warrior. But in this meta it defenetly is expendive at 4 mana.The trick is to develop and win the board before u play the sermon.and its gg.