To be honest, I think that they should at the very least make old adventures purchaseable with gold rather than money. It's so much more expensive for a f2p to get 1600 dust to craft brann, loatheb, reno etc than buying those wings, especially with the pass giving more gold than before and HOF rotations taking away all the dust one could plan to make. That's the one thing that is, I think, perfectly doable for wild and the only that's realistic. Cards costing less dust or packs costing less gold is fine in theory until you remember that bobby kotick needs a new Pacific island for the summer holidays, it's simply never going to happen. But, especially considering that old heroes and new bundles often cost gold as well as currency, I really don't get why they can't offer old adventures for gold again.
Yes there's an exploit to do that for most (other than karazhan IIRC) but it's not really ideal, is it now.
I've played since release and spent a couple hundred dollars and have no issues with them giving players old cards for free. I do get there are people that feel if they buy something no one else should get it free. Maybe they only give free the things prior to the 2nd to last expansion? With as fast as we get expansions and new years there is going to come a point where NO ONE new is ever going to play wild because they are 20 sets behind. I would think the people that care about wild would want more players playing and wouldn't worry about something that had value a year+ ago, but perhaps that's just me. I donate my old clothes and gadgets, so that other people that need or want them can have them , i don't horde them in a box or a closet because i paid money for them. I get that some people feel different though.
I guess I'm probably the wrong person to ask because i think Wild is a shit show and I dont play it... :D
I've played since release and spent a couple hundred dollars and have no issues with them giving players old cards for free. I do get there are people that feel if they buy something no one else should get it free. Maybe they only give free the things prior to the 2nd to last expansion? With as fast as we get expansions and new years there is going to come a point where NO ONE new is ever going to play wild because they are 20 sets behind. I would think the people that care about wild would want more players playing and wouldn't worry about something that had value a year+ ago, but perhaps that's just me. I donate my old clothes and gadgets, so that other people that need or want them can have them , i don't horde them in a box or a closet because i paid money for them. I get that some people feel different though.
I guess I'm probably the wrong person to ask because i think Wild is a shit show and I dont play it... :D
There is a vast difference between donating items to the truly needy and giving items to people who can, if they choose, afford them. A better analogy is to say, "Yeah, I know you bought a new car 4 years ago, but now everyone should get the same car for free." At a discount? Sure. But free is unfair. And you're simply wrong to say that these cards only "had value a year+ ago." Unlike old clothes or gadgets, many old HS cards retain their value. There are many old cards that still see substantial play in Wild. Reno decks continue to have a huge role in the Wild meta, for example.
If people want to play Wild, they should buy the packs using either gold or money, or else craft the cards using dust. Again, I'm open to some sort of discount, but free is another matter. On the other hand, if Blizzard wants to compensate me in dust for all the cards they're giving other people for free, I'm more than willing to change my tune....! But I'm not holding my breath.
I've played since release and spent a couple hundred dollars and have no issues with them giving players old cards for free. I do get there are people that feel if they buy something no one else should get it free. Maybe they only give free the things prior to the 2nd to last expansion? With as fast as we get expansions and new years there is going to come a point where NO ONE new is ever going to play wild because they are 20 sets behind. I would think the people that care about wild would want more players playing and wouldn't worry about something that had value a year+ ago, but perhaps that's just me. I donate my old clothes and gadgets, so that other people that need or want them can have them , i don't horde them in a box or a closet because i paid money for them. I get that some people feel different though.
I guess I'm probably the wrong person to ask because i think Wild is a shit show and I dont play it... :D
There is a vast difference between donating items to the truly needy and giving items to people who can, if they choose, afford them. A better analogy is to say, "Yeah, I know you bought a new car 4 years ago, but now everyone should get the same car for free." At a discount? Sure. But free is unfair. And you're simply wrong to say that these cards only "had value a year+ ago." Unlike old clothes or gadgets, many old HS cards retain their value. There are many old cards that still see substantial play in Wild. Reno decks continue to have a huge role in the Wild meta, for example.
If people want to play Wild, they should buy the packs using either gold or money, or else craft the cards using dust. Again, I'm open to some sort of discount, but free is another matter. On the other hand, if Blizzard wants to compensate me in dust for all the cards they're giving other people for free, I'm more than willing to change my tune....! But I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah I feel a discount if some sort is a fair compromise. The quotes post is right in that it's hard now but simply impossible in a few years. Seems a waste of a business opportunity if nothing else. Even trying sale weeks where packs for wild are half off or something. See what the uptake is and maybe go from there.
Why should wild cards be cheaper? They aren’t less powerful than new cards, furthermore wild isn’t expensive (secret mage is about 4.3 k dust and one of the best decks in the format). Standard cards are also wild cards per Definition, and many of them see play there. Switching to wild (which I recommend from personal experience) is not expensive, it’s most of the time even cheaper then building a new standard deck. Also, only the best new cards see play, there is no need to craft cards that will be bad as soon as the next set drops
Why should wild cards be cheaper? They aren’t less powerful than new cards, furthermore wild isn’t expensive (secret mage is about 4.3 k dust and one of the best decks in the format). Standard cards are also wild cards per Definition, and many of them see play there. Switching to wild (which I recommend from personal experience) is not expensive, it’s most of the time even cheaper then building a new standard deck. Also, only the best new cards see play, there is no need to craft cards that will be bad as soon as the next set drops
Well you can say this but not every player is like you. It’s easy to get into Wild if your intention is purely to craft a strong deck and try to hit Legend but what about if players want to get into Wild in order to experiment with old cards and test out cool decks?
You cannot do that with a bare collection. And building a Wild collection from scratch costs an unreasonable amount of money.
Yeah that’s true, but it’s not just about building 1 deck. If a new player (or returning player in my case) wants to build a Wild collection it’s almost impossible without paying an amount of money that is very difficult to justify.
For me, to enjoy a mode I have to have access to a large collection as I build and test a lot of decks. Wild would be the perfect mode for me but I’m not going to pay hundreds or thousands or pounds to play it.
Why should wild cards be cheaper? They aren’t less powerful than new cards, furthermore wild isn’t expensive (secret mage is about 4.3 k dust and one of the best decks in the format). Standard cards are also wild cards per Definition, and many of them see play there. Switching to wild (which I recommend from personal experience) is not expensive, it’s most of the time even cheaper then building a new standard deck. Also, only the best new cards see play, there is no need to craft cards that will be bad as soon as the next set drops
Well you can say this but not every player is like you. It’s easy to get into Wild if your intention is purely to craft a strong deck and try to hit Legend but what about if players want to get into Wild in order to experiment with old cards and test out cool decks?
You cannot do that with a bare collection. And building a Wild collection from scratch costs an unreasonable amount of money.
Agreed, its not about winning its more about the options. If I only want one deck that wins, then I might just as well play standard. But at the same time, thats just my personal inclination.
You imply that I play those aggro decks. I play some of them (and then not the good ones), and I generally climb to legend with homebrew stuff (not just 1 card difference from meta decks, more like 10-15 ). This decks are starting points to learn the meta (advised before experimenting because you’ll learn what cards are actually playable) and get a look what wild is like (hint: there are nearly no Grindy control matchups, value is no win condition). Many people seem to think that they could play some cool of meta stuff, and yeah, you can do that. If you want to experiment and keep it cheap, decide for one class you like the most and start there with the good decks, then craft the stupid cards. Dh is also always there for experimenting
Not to say that nothing should be done to make Wild more accessible, but I am confused about this idea that WIld is so much harder to get into.
Most good Wild decks are relatively cheap, Reno decks aside. Almost every Wild deck makes use of some Standard cards, as new cards are frequently stronger, or at least comparable to older cards. Most of the legendaries that used to be good (already a small amount) have become outdated over time. There are a few that still seem intriguing, but are only necessary for archetypes that don't do particularly well either, like Aviana or Shudderwock. It's not like you really need them, even if they are cool.
I also want to add that with the new reward system, you make enough Gold that you can reasonably invest in Wild as well, given some patience. I started Hearthstone shortly before Wild started. I had close to no cards for GvG (one single pack from Arena), the first wing of Naxx and a handful TGT packs before, I chose to focus on Old Gods. This month, I could buy enough packs with Gold to get every Common and Rare in the game. I bought a lot of GVG, quite a lot of TGT, and I still had gaps to fill in every other expansion that came out before Rise of Shadows. And STILL, I am currently at over 10k gold. I bought less for Barrens, sure, but I'll get those cards through events and ladder rewards anyway, sooner or later. In the meantime, I can play Wild, Classic, Battlegrounds etc., and I could even play some Standard decks if I wanted. So, if you really want to fill up your Wild collection, you can get there eventually.
That being said, this WILL get harder and harder with every passing year. While every deck will ultimately consist of 30 cards, the ever increasing list of Wild sets makes the mode less and less attractive for newcomers who want to try it out. So, I do support the idea that there could be some discount or other bonuses that help and encourage people to try it out.
But if you want to play Wild and think there's too many cards you don't have: Just get started. Save some gold here and there for packs, and craft some of those key legendaries that really stood the test of time. Crafting Loatheb is a lot more worthwhile and feels better to craft than some craze of the month Standard legendary that might become irrelevant with the next expansion or balance patch.
It'd be interesting if there were some sort of "Loaner" system available. Years ago, when I played Magic: the Gathering, I had a decently large collection, as did my friends, but we of course didn't all have the same cards. So the decks we could build were different. I'd sometimes lend a deck to a friend for a few games/weeks so that he could get a feel for it, after which he'd return it and maybe try to trade for/buy some of the cards in that deck he was missing. When my brother wanted to learn how to play, I loaned him a deck to get him started while he built up his own collection.
I'm not sure exactly how that translates to a digital game like Hearthstone, but maybe you could "license" some of your own cards to someone on your Friends List for a limited time, and they could put them in decks (whereas you could not use them in your decks while they're "loaned out"). There would have to be limitations, like "max 30 cards loaned out at any given time," or something -- the potential for abuse of the system/lost sales is high, without proper safeguards.
I'm not playing Wild because I prefer Standard, but I also have a very robust Wild collection, because I've been playing since launch. If I could toss my Reno Jackson and Loatheb at a newbie trying to learn the ropes, I gladly would, as long as I still had the option to use them myself later in case I wanted to try Wild, or in case a Tavern Brawl comes up where I'd want my Wild stuff. In the meantime, though, I'd be happy to temporarily "sacrifice" some of the unused portion of my collection if it would help somebody else out.
I'm just not certain what the necessary limitations would be.
No way. That is so unfair to old players. I had to pay full price for my old cards and I didn’t dust them because i wanted to play wild. New players or players that CHOSE to disenchant their old cards for standard shouldn’t immediately be able to get the old cards easier just cause they want to. That’s so entitled. Work up your collection like everyone else had to!
No way. That is so unfair to old players. I had to pay full price for my old cards and I didn’t dust them because i wanted to play wild. New players or players that CHOSE to disenchant their old cards for standard shouldn’t immediately be able to get the old cards easier just cause they want to. That’s so entitled. Work up your collection like everyone else had to!
Man you are going to hate the real life. stuff lose value, just because you payed full price when it was more valuable does not mean that you are entitled to be guaranteed compensation if the price drops. It is another story if they actually change the card, because then your product is changed by them.
No way. That is so unfair to old players. I had to pay full price for my old cards and I didn’t dust them because i wanted to play wild. New players or players that CHOSE to disenchant their old cards for standard shouldn’t immediately be able to get the old cards easier just cause they want to. That’s so entitled. Work up your collection like everyone else had to!
Yeah. If only all companies understood this. It is so unfair that people can buy the videocard I got in 2018 for much less money...
Just to respond to people saying it isn't more expensive etc, reno costs the same as fitb legendary and comments of this ilk.
You're right but you're missing the point. You're responding to this from a 'either or' perspective but that's not what I see people asking for.
Sure, if you play wild instead of standard then creating 3 or 4 decks costs the same. Cool. No problem for people who want to play wild over standard.
The problem is for people who want to do both. Then it is more expensive, that's simply a fact. The meta is different and you'll need cards in addition to anything you need for standard.
So the discussion is more for that part of the community. The players who want to invest in wild but can't justify investing into wild whilst also investing into standard. Wild is significantly less active/popular (as I understand). So there's those people who don't want to play because they don't like the format or don't want to learn old cards etc but then there are people who want to play but can't and it's those people that Blizzard are losing out on.
I put money into the game, I put money into standard every expansion, I'm just not prepared, nor will I play it enough to justify, to put money into packs from years ago as well. Now Blizzard can accept that, maybe that'd fine in their business model but this is a hypothetical conversation about what could help the people who want to play it, play it.
If you think the model is just fine, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But others are also entitled to discuss hypothetical ways of it being more affordable for them.
I have every card from the latest expansion and 90 odd% of the cards from previous expansions in standard. I still spent almost 10k in dust to craft some cards for wild though yesterday. That's on top of the money I've invested into hearthstone and on top of that entire collection I've spent money to build. The gap is going to continue getting bigger and as new players enter, wild will just be more and more difficult to get into, unless you're fine with sacrificing standard to do it. Or you're happy putting money into both.
No way. That is so unfair to old players. I had to pay full price for my old cards and I didn’t dust them because i wanted to play wild. New players or players that CHOSE to disenchant their old cards for standard shouldn’t immediately be able to get the old cards easier just cause they want to. That’s so entitled. Work up your collection like everyone else had to!
Man you are going to hate the real life. stuff lose value, just because you payed full price when it was more valuable does not mean that you are entitled to be guaranteed compensation if the price drops. It is another story if they actually change the card, because then your product is changed by them.
Who cares? Games don’t have to suck like real life lmao. I don’t want them to. In fact i want to feel rewarded for my investment and time spent in this game! Which right now how wild is, i do! This is a digital card game. The value doesn’t have to drop unless it’s literally manipulated to. That isn’t fair to old players and the only reason you say ”haha life isn’t fair breh get over it” is because it benefits YOU this time around.
No way. That is so unfair to old players. I had to pay full price for my old cards and I didn’t dust them because i wanted to play wild. New players or players that CHOSE to disenchant their old cards for standard shouldn’t immediately be able to get the old cards easier just cause they want to. That’s so entitled. Work up your collection like everyone else had to!
Man you are going to hate the real life. stuff lose value, just because you payed full price when it was more valuable does not mean that you are entitled to be guaranteed compensation if the price drops. It is another story if they actually change the card, because then your product is changed by them.
Who cares? Games don’t have to suck like real life lmao. I don’t want them to. In fact i want to feel rewarded for my investment and time spent in this game! Which right now how wild is, i do! This is a digital card game. The value doesn’t have to drop unless it’s literally manipulated to. That isn’t fair to old players and the only reason you say ”haha life isn’t fair breh get over it” is because it benefits YOU this time around.
Thing is - if someone else will get cards cheaper, yours won't disappear
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To be honest, I think that they should at the very least make old adventures purchaseable with gold rather than money. It's so much more expensive for a f2p to get 1600 dust to craft brann, loatheb, reno etc than buying those wings, especially with the pass giving more gold than before and HOF rotations taking away all the dust one could plan to make. That's the one thing that is, I think, perfectly doable for wild and the only that's realistic. Cards costing less dust or packs costing less gold is fine in theory until you remember that bobby kotick needs a new Pacific island for the summer holidays, it's simply never going to happen. But, especially considering that old heroes and new bundles often cost gold as well as currency, I really don't get why they can't offer old adventures for gold again.
Yes there's an exploit to do that for most (other than karazhan IIRC) but it's not really ideal, is it now.
I've played since release and spent a couple hundred dollars and have no issues with them giving players old cards for free. I do get there are people that feel if they buy something no one else should get it free. Maybe they only give free the things prior to the 2nd to last expansion? With as fast as we get expansions and new years there is going to come a point where NO ONE new is ever going to play wild because they are 20 sets behind. I would think the people that care about wild would want more players playing and wouldn't worry about something that had value a year+ ago, but perhaps that's just me. I donate my old clothes and gadgets, so that other people that need or want them can have them , i don't horde them in a box or a closet because i paid money for them. I get that some people feel different though.
I guess I'm probably the wrong person to ask because i think Wild is a shit show and I dont play it... :D
There is a vast difference between donating items to the truly needy and giving items to people who can, if they choose, afford them. A better analogy is to say, "Yeah, I know you bought a new car 4 years ago, but now everyone should get the same car for free." At a discount? Sure. But free is unfair. And you're simply wrong to say that these cards only "had value a year+ ago." Unlike old clothes or gadgets, many old HS cards retain their value. There are many old cards that still see substantial play in Wild. Reno decks continue to have a huge role in the Wild meta, for example.
If people want to play Wild, they should buy the packs using either gold or money, or else craft the cards using dust. Again, I'm open to some sort of discount, but free is another matter. On the other hand, if Blizzard wants to compensate me in dust for all the cards they're giving other people for free, I'm more than willing to change my tune....! But I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah I feel a discount if some sort is a fair compromise. The quotes post is right in that it's hard now but simply impossible in a few years. Seems a waste of a business opportunity if nothing else. Even trying sale weeks where packs for wild are half off or something. See what the uptake is and maybe go from there.
Wild cards should be discounted when they rotate and eventually become free (or extremely cheap) the older they become.
GvG costing the same as FitB is absurd.
Why should wild cards be cheaper? They aren’t less powerful than new cards, furthermore wild isn’t expensive (secret mage is about 4.3 k dust and one of the best decks in the format). Standard cards are also wild cards per Definition, and many of them see play there. Switching to wild (which I recommend from personal experience) is not expensive, it’s most of the time even cheaper then building a new standard deck. Also, only the best new cards see play, there is no need to craft cards that will be bad as soon as the next set drops
Well you can say this but not every player is like you. It’s easy to get into Wild if your intention is purely to craft a strong deck and try to hit Legend but what about if players want to get into Wild in order to experiment with old cards and test out cool decks?
You cannot do that with a bare collection. And building a Wild collection from scratch costs an unreasonable amount of money.
Oh I am not playing any of this decks. But control decks are expensive in every format.
Yeah that’s true, but it’s not just about building 1 deck. If a new player (or returning player in my case) wants to build a Wild collection it’s almost impossible without paying an amount of money that is very difficult to justify.
For me, to enjoy a mode I have to have access to a large collection as I build and test a lot of decks. Wild would be the perfect mode for me but I’m not going to pay hundreds or thousands or pounds to play it.
Agreed, its not about winning its more about the options.
If I only want one deck that wins, then I might just as well play standard. But at the same time, thats just my personal inclination.
You imply that I play those aggro decks. I play some of them (and then not the good ones), and I generally climb to legend with homebrew stuff (not just 1 card difference from meta decks, more like 10-15 ). This decks are starting points to learn the meta (advised before experimenting because you’ll learn what cards are actually playable) and get a look what wild is like (hint: there are nearly no Grindy control matchups, value is no win condition). Many people seem to think that they could play some cool of meta stuff, and yeah, you can do that. If you want to experiment and keep it cheap, decide for one class you like the most and start there with the good decks, then craft the stupid cards. Dh is also always there for experimenting
Not to say that nothing should be done to make Wild more accessible, but I am confused about this idea that WIld is so much harder to get into.
Most good Wild decks are relatively cheap, Reno decks aside. Almost every Wild deck makes use of some Standard cards, as new cards are frequently stronger, or at least comparable to older cards. Most of the legendaries that used to be good (already a small amount) have become outdated over time. There are a few that still seem intriguing, but are only necessary for archetypes that don't do particularly well either, like Aviana or Shudderwock. It's not like you really need them, even if they are cool.
I also want to add that with the new reward system, you make enough Gold that you can reasonably invest in Wild as well, given some patience. I started Hearthstone shortly before Wild started. I had close to no cards for GvG (one single pack from Arena), the first wing of Naxx and a handful TGT packs before, I chose to focus on Old Gods. This month, I could buy enough packs with Gold to get every Common and Rare in the game. I bought a lot of GVG, quite a lot of TGT, and I still had gaps to fill in every other expansion that came out before Rise of Shadows. And STILL, I am currently at over 10k gold. I bought less for Barrens, sure, but I'll get those cards through events and ladder rewards anyway, sooner or later. In the meantime, I can play Wild, Classic, Battlegrounds etc., and I could even play some Standard decks if I wanted. So, if you really want to fill up your Wild collection, you can get there eventually.
That being said, this WILL get harder and harder with every passing year. While every deck will ultimately consist of 30 cards, the ever increasing list of Wild sets makes the mode less and less attractive for newcomers who want to try it out. So, I do support the idea that there could be some discount or other bonuses that help and encourage people to try it out.
But if you want to play Wild and think there's too many cards you don't have: Just get started. Save some gold here and there for packs, and craft some of those key legendaries that really stood the test of time. Crafting Loatheb is a lot more worthwhile and feels better to craft than some craze of the month Standard legendary that might become irrelevant with the next expansion or balance patch.
It'd be interesting if there were some sort of "Loaner" system available. Years ago, when I played Magic: the Gathering, I had a decently large collection, as did my friends, but we of course didn't all have the same cards. So the decks we could build were different. I'd sometimes lend a deck to a friend for a few games/weeks so that he could get a feel for it, after which he'd return it and maybe try to trade for/buy some of the cards in that deck he was missing. When my brother wanted to learn how to play, I loaned him a deck to get him started while he built up his own collection.
I'm not sure exactly how that translates to a digital game like Hearthstone, but maybe you could "license" some of your own cards to someone on your Friends List for a limited time, and they could put them in decks (whereas you could not use them in your decks while they're "loaned out"). There would have to be limitations, like "max 30 cards loaned out at any given time," or something -- the potential for abuse of the system/lost sales is high, without proper safeguards.
I'm not playing Wild because I prefer Standard, but I also have a very robust Wild collection, because I've been playing since launch. If I could toss my Reno Jackson and Loatheb at a newbie trying to learn the ropes, I gladly would, as long as I still had the option to use them myself later in case I wanted to try Wild, or in case a Tavern Brawl comes up where I'd want my Wild stuff. In the meantime, though, I'd be happy to temporarily "sacrifice" some of the unused portion of my collection if it would help somebody else out.
I'm just not certain what the necessary limitations would be.
No way. That is so unfair to old players. I had to pay full price for my old cards and I didn’t dust them because i wanted to play wild. New players or players that CHOSE to disenchant their old cards for standard shouldn’t immediately be able to get the old cards easier just cause they want to. That’s so entitled.
Work up your collection like everyone else had to!
Man you are going to hate the real life.
stuff lose value, just because you payed full price when it was more valuable does not mean that you are entitled to be guaranteed compensation if the price drops. It is another story if they actually change the card, because then your product is changed by them.
This comment gives me hope!
Thanks
Yeah. If only all companies understood this. It is so unfair that people can buy the videocard I got in 2018 for much less money...
/sarcasm off
This kind of elitism is ridiculous.
Just to respond to people saying it isn't more expensive etc, reno costs the same as fitb legendary and comments of this ilk.
You're right but you're missing the point. You're responding to this from a 'either or' perspective but that's not what I see people asking for.
Sure, if you play wild instead of standard then creating 3 or 4 decks costs the same. Cool. No problem for people who want to play wild over standard.
The problem is for people who want to do both. Then it is more expensive, that's simply a fact. The meta is different and you'll need cards in addition to anything you need for standard.
So the discussion is more for that part of the community. The players who want to invest in wild but can't justify investing into wild whilst also investing into standard. Wild is significantly less active/popular (as I understand). So there's those people who don't want to play because they don't like the format or don't want to learn old cards etc but then there are people who want to play but can't and it's those people that Blizzard are losing out on.
I put money into the game, I put money into standard every expansion, I'm just not prepared, nor will I play it enough to justify, to put money into packs from years ago as well. Now Blizzard can accept that, maybe that'd fine in their business model but this is a hypothetical conversation about what could help the people who want to play it, play it.
If you think the model is just fine, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But others are also entitled to discuss hypothetical ways of it being more affordable for them.
I have every card from the latest expansion and 90 odd% of the cards from previous expansions in standard. I still spent almost 10k in dust to craft some cards for wild though yesterday. That's on top of the money I've invested into hearthstone and on top of that entire collection I've spent money to build. The gap is going to continue getting bigger and as new players enter, wild will just be more and more difficult to get into, unless you're fine with sacrificing standard to do it. Or you're happy putting money into both.
Who cares? Games don’t have to suck like real life lmao. I don’t want them to. In fact i want to feel rewarded for my investment and time spent in this game! Which right now how wild is, i do!
This is a digital card game. The value doesn’t have to drop unless it’s literally manipulated to. That isn’t fair to old players and the only reason you say ”haha life isn’t fair breh get over it” is because it benefits YOU this time around.
Thing is - if someone else will get cards cheaper, yours won't disappear