I have the impression that people complaining about warlock never really played it.
This, but it's the case with pretty much all decks. Bronze people are biased, because they only remember when deck X kicked their butt and not when they won against it. Also, they often have no idea how the deck performs in other matchups.
Warlock does not have any other draw source other than his heropower (luckysoul is not really a good draw tool) when playing jaraxus he also loses a lot of tempo. Tickatus is really too slow for aggressive matchups. I have the impression that people complaining about warlock never really played it. And I like the fact that he keeps the priest and other greedy decks under control.
The people complaining about warlock are generally not playing the aggressive decks that just beat warlock. The problem, such as it is, is that Blizzard has pushed aggro so hard that people naturally want to find counters to it, and the best counter so far (control priest) is just an autoloss to Control Warlock (which is bad against aggro and the broader meta, for what it's worth - that may be why it seems hard to pilot to its defenders).
It's fine for a deck to be favored against another, but Control Warlock has an 80/20 matchup spread against all of the priest decks in the meta, since Priest's whole design philosophy hinges on them being able to go late. Tickatus + Y'Shaarj just win against priest, and that was before Jaraxxus was inexplicably buffed.
And aggro - the most pushed archetype every expansion since Ashes of Outlands - already keeps greedy decks under control! Why does there need to be a deck - a card, really - that just wins against a particular class no matter what that class is trying to do?
The main problem that people are having is that the established decklists are still from the time of mage dominance and are ill equipped to handle the new meta.
Ah here we have the inevitable, quintessential fanboy. Everything devs do is wise, good, deep....and of course complainers must suck at the game one way or another.
To parafrase Yoda: hmmmm...wrong am I?
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The main problem that people are having is that the established decklists are still from the time of mage dominance and are ill equipped to handle the new meta.
Standard is better than before nerfs but there are still room for some tweaks. Paladin is still too oppressive with almost perfect curve, strong secrets and buff spells, especially Librams. I'd like to see Crabrider and Libram of Hope nerfed.
Crabrider has too much longevity with 4 health and it's very dangerous when buffed. It's also performing well in Rush Warrior. I suggest making it 1/3.
Libram of Hope is just too powerful card. The healing effect combined with extremely high stat minion with both taunt and divine shield itself is enough to end some games but the cost of the card can also be reduced and it can be played more than twice per game with Lady Liadrin. I suggest reducing the stat line of the minion and I think reducing attack of the minion would be reasonable. It's meant to be defensive card and 8 attack is too high. Making it 6/8 would be reasonable nerf to make the card feel a bit fairer but to still keep the card strong option for Libram Paladin.
A great fix for Libram of hope would be to remove the Libram tag so it can't be discounted. At 9 mana it's very strong, but a 9 mana card should be. The problem is that it's too easy to discount it to the point that it's hopelessly broken.
I dunno, having a good games with all decks and dont hard struggle against anything. Using spell dmg mage on climbing and i do climb - slowly but yes. Btw. warlock is easiest match up for me :D
I feel like a lot of the complaints listed are about game finishing strategies, which are NOT synonymous with OP or meta warping. They are win conditions, and they’re intended to be strong. Even counterable against certain decks i.e. yshaarj +clowns dying to twisted nether.
Calling for nerfs just because you lose against a countering class or in close games is inappropriate and makes you look like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
There are people complaining about more than half the classes in the game, in some cases about more than one deck per class. People don't understand what imbalanced means. Unless we have one or two decks dominating everyone, or one card completely warping the metagame to a "counter thst card" state, then the metagame is fine, as it is right now.
I understand that not everyone enjoys deckbuilding, testing and tweaking. Some people like to jump straight into the game. If you're getting smashed on ranked then watch some GM matches, or wait for the next VS report and get an updated list.
Believe me or not, but right now Warlock is LITERALLY the worst class in the game. Control Lock is oddly popular (I guess mostly due to Tickatus "fun factor"), but incredibly awful vs the meta at the same time. He has one good matchup (Control Priest, which is not very popular on ladder yet) and loses to anything else. If the Tickatus gets nerfed, people will just stop playing the deck (and class) altogether, because why would they keep doing it?
Honestly, I'm OK with the idea, because I'm sick of Tickatus complaints and his nerf might also encourage Team 5 to buff Warlock at some point. But then Priest will step in, and trust me, he's much tougher to beat than Control Lock with his Tickatus meme deck. Unfortunately for you, Control Lock is also the greatest counter to greedy, infinite value Control Priest, and after Lock's death, no one will stop Priest from grinding you in 15 minutes long matches.
Yes, I know, Shaman looks bad too right now, but at least he has some potential and space to improve. On the other hand, Warlock has a very mediocre Core Set and the worst Barrens Set in the game, with zero potential to do better in the meta. With or wothout nerf, in a few weeks Warlock will be as popular in the meta, as a steak in a vegan restaurant.
I guarantee most players who want warlock nerfed are brain dead secret pallys or some other aggro deck
Prob not, yo. They're likely primarily people who want to play midrange or control decks. Warlock has bad matchups against aggro. However, I've not been able to play midrange since Warlock basically is capable of pretty reliably burning my late game and dealing with my early game while healing off all my damage. I had to switch over to aggro weapon shaman to outpace them
Control Lock is oddly popular (I guess mostly due to Tickatus "fun factor"), but incredibly awful vs the meta at the same time.
Maybe it's bad in this very specific meta but this is still a very powerful control deck, and not due to Tickatus at all. If it wasn't for the corrupt package with Cascading Disaster (best removal in the entire game) and Y'shaarj, I wouldn't bother with Tickatus. I mostly run it for the warlock mirror, because they run more card draw than me, so I win fatigue even when they burn 10 of my cards, unless they burn tick and yshaarj of course.
It's one of the few control decks that can still somewhat keep up with aggro decks, the deck is literally filled with top tier cards.
The soul fragment package is very good against aggro.
Tickatus breaks slow combo decks.
The corrupt package is very good against greedy decks.
Raise Dead to get more soul fragments or more crazy legendaries out of nowhere.
Seemingly infinite healing. (I count 28 + 5 armor in my deck, not counting Tamsin/Raise dead/Y'shaarj)
Control warlock isn't oddly popular, it is rightfully so, it's a great deck that can potentially disrupt all opposing archetypes (aggro, combo, control) with different tools and it has many more good matchups than just control priest.
If warlock is the worst class in the meta, that says more about the craziness of other aggro and combo decks, than the weakness of warlock's core and barrens set. I understand everyone's deck and skill is different, and I don't know what meta control warlock exactly looks like, but out of my 22 standard decks, my control warlock is far from the worst.
Nerf Tickatus if you want, I'll still beat priest with Jaraxxus.
Yes, I know, Shaman looks bad too right now, but at least he has some potential and space to improve.
No card draw = no space to improve. It's way harder to experiment new strategies with shaman than any other class imo. Warlock in particular, has much more space to improve and make changes in the deck to adapt to the meta. Core set really isn't as bad as you think (jaraxxus, twisting, drain soul, hellfire, top tier control cards), and yeah barrens set kinda sucks (still gave us Tamsin) but the other expansions don't.
The meta right now is purest aggro meta we ever had because aggro is insanely powerful, and on top of that if you want to play anti aggro decks well I have bad news for you - not only is aggro stronger than your anti aggro deck and will still kill you because card draw and infinite damage is a thing, unless you wanna play Warlock you're just gonna get destroyed by Tickatus for playing a slower deck.
TLDR; Blizz wants you to play Aggro or Tickatus, other classes and archetypes don't exist. Balance 10/10, tickatus burning your deck faster than blizz can burn your wallet.
As a general rule, when someone says "something-est meta ever" they're engaging in a bit of hyperbole.
In this specific case, when someone says "this is the 'purest' aggro meta we['ve] ever had", they're clueless to a level rarely seen outside of league of legends balance whines.
Furthermore, the aggro OR Tickatus narrative makes no sense, as Tickatus has a dismal record against aggro, so if it's truly a pure aggro meta, Tickatus would get hung out to dry to the tune of 65-70%.
Meanwhile, while this same narrative continues, I just broke 90 matchups with Silas Warrior against the Tick, and the matchup record stands at 56-34. Hardly the combo/control strangler it's shaped up to be. And yes, before anyone says it, i'm aware 90 games is still in the realm of anecdotal, but shortly I'll have a statistically significant sample size, at which point all of that bull shit goes out the window, and I seriously doubt the record is going to turn into a negative winrate between now and then.
As to the random who said the discussion in this forum has been reasonable, just listing a bunch of cards you personally want to see nerfed is not a reasonable discussion. Obviously, anyone has the right to like or dislike what they please, but we "reasonably" have to have some amount of objective criteria for what constitutes a nerf-worthy situation. Otherwise, this might as well be the salt thread. And if people just post "I think X should be nerfed" with nothing in the way of what makes this a situation where that nerf is warranted, it's just a thinly-disguised salt post, reply or OP.
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No, it's not great by any means and above gold it becomes utterly unplayable (in standard). You might not agree with me, yet guys from Vicious Syndicate have exactly the same opinion about this deck. Of course, they are not always right, but usually they are.
Tickatus desperately needs a nerf so control can return. Paladin needs at least 3 cards nerfed and wild mage needs flamewaker and sorc nerfed.
Naah I think most are the priest kind of whiner. Or maybe people who think control warrior can be a thing if tickatus isn't a thing.
This, but it's the case with pretty much all decks. Bronze people are biased, because they only remember when deck X kicked their butt and not when they won against it. Also, they often have no idea how the deck performs in other matchups.
This just made my day. XDDDDDDDD
The people complaining about warlock are generally not playing the aggressive decks that just beat warlock. The problem, such as it is, is that Blizzard has pushed aggro so hard that people naturally want to find counters to it, and the best counter so far (control priest) is just an autoloss to Control Warlock (which is bad against aggro and the broader meta, for what it's worth - that may be why it seems hard to pilot to its defenders).
It's fine for a deck to be favored against another, but Control Warlock has an 80/20 matchup spread against all of the priest decks in the meta, since Priest's whole design philosophy hinges on them being able to go late. Tickatus + Y'Shaarj just win against priest, and that was before Jaraxxus was inexplicably buffed.
And aggro - the most pushed archetype every expansion since Ashes of Outlands - already keeps greedy decks under control! Why does there need to be a deck - a card, really - that just wins against a particular class no matter what that class is trying to do?
Ah here we have the inevitable, quintessential fanboy. Everything devs do is wise, good, deep....and of course complainers must suck at the game one way or another.
To parafrase Yoda: hmmmm...wrong am I?
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
A great fix for Libram of hope would be to remove the Libram tag so it can't be discounted. At 9 mana it's very strong, but a 9 mana card should be. The problem is that it's too easy to discount it to the point that it's hopelessly broken.
I dunno, having a good games with all decks and dont hard struggle against anything. Using spell dmg mage on climbing and i do climb - slowly but yes. Btw. warlock is easiest match up for me :D
I feel like a lot of the complaints listed are about game finishing strategies, which are NOT synonymous with OP or meta warping. They are win conditions, and they’re intended to be strong. Even counterable against certain decks i.e. yshaarj +clowns dying to twisted nether.
Calling for nerfs just because you lose against a countering class or in close games is inappropriate and makes you look like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
There are people complaining about more than half the classes in the game, in some cases about more than one deck per class. People don't understand what imbalanced means. Unless we have one or two decks dominating everyone, or one card completely warping the metagame to a "counter thst card" state, then the metagame is fine, as it is right now.
I understand that not everyone enjoys deckbuilding, testing and tweaking. Some people like to jump straight into the game. If you're getting smashed on ranked then watch some GM matches, or wait for the next VS report and get an updated list.
com one... Warlock sucks, Paladin is ok now, Hunter will drop soon and will be ok too.
Tickatus sucks man...
Believe me or not, but right now Warlock is LITERALLY the worst class in the game. Control Lock is oddly popular (I guess mostly due to Tickatus "fun factor"), but incredibly awful vs the meta at the same time. He has one good matchup (Control Priest, which is not very popular on ladder yet) and loses to anything else. If the Tickatus gets nerfed, people will just stop playing the deck (and class) altogether, because why would they keep doing it?
Honestly, I'm OK with the idea, because I'm sick of Tickatus complaints and his nerf might also encourage Team 5 to buff Warlock at some point. But then Priest will step in, and trust me, he's much tougher to beat than Control Lock with his Tickatus meme deck. Unfortunately for you, Control Lock is also the greatest counter to greedy, infinite value Control Priest, and after Lock's death, no one will stop Priest from grinding you in 15 minutes long matches.
Yes, I know, Shaman looks bad too right now, but at least he has some potential and space to improve. On the other hand, Warlock has a very mediocre Core Set and the worst Barrens Set in the game, with zero potential to do better in the meta. With or wothout nerf, in a few weeks Warlock will be as popular in the meta, as a steak in a vegan restaurant.
Prob not, yo. They're likely primarily people who want to play midrange or control decks. Warlock has bad matchups against aggro. However, I've not been able to play midrange since Warlock basically is capable of pretty reliably burning my late game and dealing with my early game while healing off all my damage. I had to switch over to aggro weapon shaman to outpace them
Maybe it's bad in this very specific meta but this is still a very powerful control deck, and not due to Tickatus at all. If it wasn't for the corrupt package with Cascading Disaster (best removal in the entire game) and Y'shaarj, I wouldn't bother with Tickatus. I mostly run it for the warlock mirror, because they run more card draw than me, so I win fatigue even when they burn 10 of my cards, unless they burn tick and yshaarj of course.
It's one of the few control decks that can still somewhat keep up with aggro decks, the deck is literally filled with top tier cards.
The soul fragment package is very good against aggro.
Tickatus breaks slow combo decks.
The corrupt package is very good against greedy decks.
Lord Jaraxxus is very good against control decks.
Tamsin Roame, Envoy Rustwix are massive value generators.
Soulciologist Malicia and Y'Shaarj, the Defiler are very low effort and massive board tempo push.
Twisting Nether, School Spirits, Hellfire, Cascading Disaster (x4), Hysteria, all the top tier board clears in the world.
Drain Soul, Soul Shear, Siphon Soul, decent single target removals with healing attached.
Raise Dead to get more soul fragments or more crazy legendaries out of nowhere.
Seemingly infinite healing. (I count 28 + 5 armor in my deck, not counting Tamsin/Raise dead/Y'shaarj)
Control warlock isn't oddly popular, it is rightfully so, it's a great deck that can potentially disrupt all opposing archetypes (aggro, combo, control) with different tools and it has many more good matchups than just control priest.
If warlock is the worst class in the meta, that says more about the craziness of other aggro and combo decks, than the weakness of warlock's core and barrens set. I understand everyone's deck and skill is different, and I don't know what meta control warlock exactly looks like, but out of my 22 standard decks, my control warlock is far from the worst.
Nerf Tickatus if you want, I'll still beat priest with Jaraxxus.
No card draw = no space to improve. It's way harder to experiment new strategies with shaman than any other class imo. Warlock in particular, has much more space to improve and make changes in the deck to adapt to the meta. Core set really isn't as bad as you think (jaraxxus, twisting, drain soul, hellfire, top tier control cards), and yeah barrens set kinda sucks (still gave us Tamsin) but the other expansions don't.
As a general rule, when someone says "something-est meta ever" they're engaging in a bit of hyperbole.
In this specific case, when someone says "this is the 'purest' aggro meta we['ve] ever had", they're clueless to a level rarely seen outside of league of legends balance whines.
Furthermore, the aggro OR Tickatus narrative makes no sense, as Tickatus has a dismal record against aggro, so if it's truly a pure aggro meta, Tickatus would get hung out to dry to the tune of 65-70%.
Meanwhile, while this same narrative continues, I just broke 90 matchups with Silas Warrior against the Tick, and the matchup record stands at 56-34. Hardly the combo/control strangler it's shaped up to be. And yes, before anyone says it, i'm aware 90 games is still in the realm of anecdotal, but shortly I'll have a statistically significant sample size, at which point all of that bull shit goes out the window, and I seriously doubt the record is going to turn into a negative winrate between now and then.
As to the random who said the discussion in this forum has been reasonable, just listing a bunch of cards you personally want to see nerfed is not a reasonable discussion. Obviously, anyone has the right to like or dislike what they please, but we "reasonably" have to have some amount of objective criteria for what constitutes a nerf-worthy situation. Otherwise, this might as well be the salt thread. And if people just post "I think X should be nerfed" with nothing in the way of what makes this a situation where that nerf is warranted, it's just a thinly-disguised salt post, reply or OP.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Every single aspect of the Game in Standard affecting all 10 Classes, wich means
doesn't feel fair or well balanced in so many ways.
Not everything is bad, but i quickly lost the interest in the new expanions because the matches rarely feel really good - even when i won.
@PetiteMouche
No, it's not great by any means and above gold it becomes utterly unplayable (in standard). You might not agree with me, yet guys from Vicious Syndicate have exactly the same opinion about this deck. Of course, they are not always right, but usually they are.
Maby parental control so that 8 year old kids that play hunter cant do it? Lel
Oh i forgot, you guys who think tickatus is OP have literally no idea about what OP means