I know this game always profit aggro/midrange decks becouse of general design, but playing control now is pointless. I feel like aggro/midrange decks has too many damage/card draw.
Well control was supposed to counter aggro. But since aggro can draw their entire deck, now aggro beats control and combo, combo beats control obviously, and control beats nothing but poor souls trying to get creative with non-meta decks.
Instead of a fine loop of aggro > combo > control > aggro, the game now is aggro > combo > control < combo < aggro. To be fair, this has been going on for years, it just gets worse everytime.
Even soul fragment control warlock can't keep up with aggro deck, despite the massive healing, despite the best removals in the game, it's just sad.
I know that blizzard has stated on multiple occasions that they hate fatigue games, they want games to end on turn 10, and they actively work towards that goal. The thing is, nerfing fatigue game plans is basically nerfing control as a whole, and they don't seem to realize that just yet.
They need to keep powercreeping big cards AND stop powercreeping small cards. But people hate control metas even more than aggro metas.. So it's not gonna happen. They nerfed watch posts for this reason. Not at all for balance. Kinda like when they nerfed Barnes, internal data indicated that there was nothing wrong with Barnes power level, but people hated it.
There's also this old idea, to make maximum health 40 instead of 30, would fix a looooot of recurring balance issues between aggro and control in my opinion. But it's not going to happen, just food for thought.
Tickatus doesn't beat combos, it beats other controls ! -_-
Now with Tickatus, Warlock is the only class who can play control. Thank you so much Blizzard !!
Tick generally beats combo, or, rather, a resolved corrupted tick will generally beat combo, forcing the combo player to read and take risks like going off early with a chance of whiffing (which, if it's possible, I'll generally do when a lock spends T7 playing an uncorrupted strongman). Can combo survive a Tick? Sometimes. Depends no draws, but usually there'll be at least one key card burnt.
Tickatus doesn't beat combos, it beats other controls ! -_-
Now with Tickatus, Warlock is the only class who can play control. Thank you so much Blizzard !!
Tick generally beats combo, or, rather, a resolved corrupted tick will generally beat combo, forcing the combo player to read and take risks like going off early with a chance of whiffing (which, if it's possible, I'll generally do when a lock spends T7 playing an uncorrupted strongman). Can combo survive a Tick? Sometimes. Depends no draws, but usually there'll be at least one key card burnt.
Best example is C’Thun… if the Warlock gets Tickatus out before their opponent draws all the C’thun pieces, good chance one gets burned.
Yeah, to me, secret paladin feels unfair to play against.
They has 10 cards to draw: 2x Knight of Anointment 2x Sword of the Fallen (basically draw 4 secrets and play them, also improving your top deck because you are playing trash cards that you would never want to draw in mid/late game) 2x Hand of A'dal 2x Northwatch Commander ¡¡¡10, THAT'S INSANE!!!
Also they can protect their minions with their secret: noble sacrifice from minions and oh my yogg from spells while they buff them with avenge, hand of a'dal etc etc etc etc etc. And now I'm seeing a lot of divine shield addition.
And, there is a lot of RNG you can't play aroud: Oh my yogg's spell, where avenge is going to be placed, 4 early minions from first day of school...
On the other hand, facing face hunter doesn't feel unfair to me at all: Even having 7 cards to draw: 2x Warsong Wrangler 2x Quick Shot and 3 from Barak Kodobane it has requirements: Warsong needs beast in the deck, quick shot needs and empty hand and Barak needs to have played Mankrik first to release it full potential, because 1 and 2 cost hunter spells are not strong by theirself.
Also, you know when their big turns can happend: Turn 5 rhyno, turn 4 Warsong, turn 2 Kolkar... so it's easier than paladin to play around them and there is no big RNG scenarios.
And about Tikatus, I can understand what people think about him, it doesn't feel fair playing against him because there is no way to play around him. If we're playing rock, papper and scissor, 1 deck shouldn't could be 2 of 3.
More terrible tickatus logic. Man it’s just daily isn’t it lol.
The stats on tickatus look bad because most of the meta is aggressive and tickatus warlock loses to those decks. But it beats anyone trying something else.
Tick is too slow to beat combo decks consistently if the player knows the match up. The main combo decks are Demon Hunter and Hunter and both have an above 70% win rate against Control Warlock at top 1000 Legend.
Like PetiteMouche has said the rock paper scissors of old no longer exists. The amount of cheap/free card draw and generation means control can no longer win the value game.
As others have said, if the meta slows down to (in theory) allow control decks, Tickatus will be there to push it back. There is no way that a control deck (or OTK) can win against a tickatus warlock deck. Too much removal and the loss of 10 cards (minimum usually) is just too much to overcome.
It's a terrible card design imo and I feel a little sad that it exists. Making it neutral would just make the pain spread more evenly...
Tickatus doesn't beat combos, it beats other controls ! -_-
Now with Tickatus, Warlock is the only class who can play control. Thank you so much Blizzard !!
Tick generally beats combo, or, rather, a resolved corrupted tick will generally beat combo, forcing the combo player to read and take risks like going off early with a chance of whiffing (which, if it's possible, I'll generally do when a lock spends T7 playing an uncorrupted strongman). Can combo survive a Tick? Sometimes. Depends no draws, but usually there'll be at least one key card burnt.
a combo deck these days will cycle too much for Tickatus to be a factor, he’s not anti combo tech because combo decks crap on warlock. Anti combo tech specifically targets your opponent’s hand, like Mindrender or dirty rat and they target specific types of cards to maximize the disrupt. Just blindly trying to burn cards from a deck that has a lot of cycle and a small combo isn’t as likely to achieve the effect.
As an aside an completely sort of unrelated to this post, does anyone know why Mindrender Illucia was nerfed? She's difficult to play, very situational and ( as far as I'm aware) no one was complaining about her when she got nerfed. The stats to mana ratio are now terrible (as they were before the nerf) and most of the cards you would want to be able to play are often now out of reach given the mana cost.
It seems wierd that TIckatus has survived without intervention and lots of people hate it yet she got nerfed out of the blue when no one expected it (and could be a reasonable counter to Tickatus)
For the past year or two, we've had a tremendous power creep of aggressive cards, while power level of control remained pretty much the same. Aggro can now draw whole deck by the turn 7-8, continuously dealing tons of face damage (often unblockable, from hand). At the same time, Brawl is still THE BEST mass removal in the game (yes, card from 7 years ago...) and access to reliable, cheap and strong healing is nonexistent.
Face damage is so powerful now, that we need cards like: 2 mana, heal your hero for 15 or 3 mana 3/20 taunt, can't be targeted by spells or Hero Powers. No, I'm not kidding... Since there's no chance of that in the near future, I'm done with HS for now.
So I understand Secret Paladin has plenty of draw with Northwatch Commander and deck thinning with Sword of the Fallen and all that. But how is Hunter a part of this "draws their whole deck" conversation? It got a single card that draws more than one card and I don't think aggro decks would play a 5 mana 3/5. Is there something I'm missing?
Hunter has very consistent and powerful aggro tools (including it’s hero power). It doesn’t need to rely on drawing it’s deck as much as some other aggro decks do.
With that said I imagine old school Control decks would fare quite well against Face Hunter, atleast more so than something like Weapon Rogue.
As an aside an completely sort of unrelated to this post, does anyone know why Mindrender Illucia was nerfed? She's difficult to play, very situational and ( as far as I'm aware) no one was complaining about her when she got nerfed. The stats to mana ratio are now terrible (as they were before the nerf) and most of the cards you would want to be able to play are often now out of reach given the mana cost.
It seems wierd that TIckatus has survived without intervention and lots of people hate it yet she got nerfed out of the blue when no one expected it (and could be a reasonable counter to Tickatus)
Iksar has already said in one of the Q&As, that if Tickatus Warlock was ever 10-15% of the meta, they’d probably look to making adjustments. As of right now, it is currently 14% of the meta across all ranks & 11% in legend. It’s the 2nd most popular deck in the game behind face hunter, despite being a “bad deck.”
Whether or not they will actually follow through with adjustments, remains to be seen. Stay tuned.
As an aside an completely sort of unrelated to this post, does anyone know why Mindrender Illucia was nerfed? She's difficult to play, very situational and ( as far as I'm aware) no one was complaining about her when she got nerfed. The stats to mana ratio are now terrible (as they were before the nerf) and most of the cards you would want to be able to play are often now out of reach given the mana cost.
It seems wierd that TIckatus has survived without intervention and lots of people hate it yet she got nerfed out of the blue when no one expected it (and could be a reasonable counter to Tickatus)
Illucia was designed as a late-game disruption card, but at 2 mana many players would play it versus aggro on t2, followed by playing the opponent's Coin + some 1-drop. Then the aggro player would effectively be stuck with a useless hand on turn 2 that is probably full of expensive removal spells meaning he had no way to continue developing tempo and come back on t3 to a hand that is already missing some resources. Such a play was often game-ending at t2 and the devs thought that this was not the way Illucia was intended to be used when designed
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I know this game always profit aggro/midrange decks becouse of general design, but playing control now is pointless. I feel like aggro/midrange decks has too many damage/card draw.
Rock paper scissors. Deck that beats aggro/midrange tends to lose to control which tends to lose to aggro
Well control was supposed to counter aggro. But since aggro can draw their entire deck, now aggro beats control and combo, combo beats control obviously, and control beats nothing but poor souls trying to get creative with non-meta decks.
Instead of a fine loop of aggro > combo > control > aggro, the game now is aggro > combo > control < combo < aggro. To be fair, this has been going on for years, it just gets worse everytime.
Even soul fragment control warlock can't keep up with aggro deck, despite the massive healing, despite the best removals in the game, it's just sad.
I know that blizzard has stated on multiple occasions that they hate fatigue games, they want games to end on turn 10, and they actively work towards that goal. The thing is, nerfing fatigue game plans is basically nerfing control as a whole, and they don't seem to realize that just yet.
They need to keep powercreeping big cards AND stop powercreeping small cards. But people hate control metas even more than aggro metas.. So it's not gonna happen. They nerfed watch posts for this reason. Not at all for balance. Kinda like when they nerfed Barnes, internal data indicated that there was nothing wrong with Barnes power level, but people hated it.
There's also this old idea, to make maximum health 40 instead of 30, would fix a looooot of recurring balance issues between aggro and control in my opinion. But it's not going to happen, just food for thought.
And then Tickatus enters with both paper and scissors.
It's the one and only control card that beats combo, warlocks deserve it. In fact, all classes deserve it, I wish it was neutral.
Tickatus doesn't beat combos, it beats other controls ! -_-
Now with Tickatus, Warlock is the only class who can play control. Thank you so much Blizzard !!
More terrible tickatus logic. Man it’s just daily isn’t it lol.
Tick generally beats combo, or, rather, a resolved corrupted tick will generally beat combo, forcing the combo player to read and take risks like going off early with a chance of whiffing (which, if it's possible, I'll generally do when a lock spends T7 playing an uncorrupted strongman). Can combo survive a Tick? Sometimes. Depends no draws, but usually there'll be at least one key card burnt.
Best example is C’Thun… if the Warlock gets Tickatus out before their opponent draws all the C’thun pieces, good chance one gets burned.
Yeah, to me, secret paladin feels unfair to play against.
They has 10 cards to draw: 2x Knight of Anointment 2x Sword of the Fallen (basically draw 4 secrets and play them, also improving your top deck because you are playing trash cards that you would never want to draw in mid/late game) 2x Hand of A'dal 2x Northwatch Commander ¡¡¡10, THAT'S INSANE!!!
Also they can protect their minions with their secret: noble sacrifice from minions and oh my yogg from spells while they buff them with avenge, hand of a'dal etc etc etc etc etc. And now I'm seeing a lot of divine shield addition.
And, there is a lot of RNG you can't play aroud: Oh my yogg's spell, where avenge is going to be placed, 4 early minions from first day of school...
On the other hand, facing face hunter doesn't feel unfair to me at all: Even having 7 cards to draw: 2x Warsong Wrangler 2x Quick Shot and 3 from Barak Kodobane it has requirements: Warsong needs beast in the deck, quick shot needs and empty hand and Barak needs to have played Mankrik first to release it full potential, because 1 and 2 cost hunter spells are not strong by theirself.
Also, you know when their big turns can happend: Turn 5 rhyno, turn 4 Warsong, turn 2 Kolkar... so it's easier than paladin to play around them and there is no big RNG scenarios.
And about Tikatus, I can understand what people think about him, it doesn't feel fair playing against him because there is no way to play around him. If we're playing rock, papper and scissor, 1 deck shouldn't could be 2 of 3.
The stats on tickatus look bad because most of the meta is aggressive and tickatus warlock loses to those decks. But it beats anyone trying something else.
Tick is too slow to beat combo decks consistently if the player knows the match up. The main combo decks are Demon Hunter and Hunter and both have an above 70% win rate against Control Warlock at top 1000 Legend.
Like PetiteMouche has said the rock paper scissors of old no longer exists. The amount of cheap/free card draw and generation means control can no longer win the value game.
As others have said, if the meta slows down to (in theory) allow control decks, Tickatus will be there to push it back. There is no way that a control deck (or OTK) can win against a tickatus warlock deck. Too much removal and the loss of 10 cards (minimum usually) is just too much to overcome.
It's a terrible card design imo and I feel a little sad that it exists. Making it neutral would just make the pain spread more evenly...
a combo deck these days will cycle too much for Tickatus to be a factor, he’s not anti combo tech because combo decks crap on warlock. Anti combo tech specifically targets your opponent’s hand, like Mindrender or dirty rat and they target specific types of cards to maximize the disrupt. Just blindly trying to burn cards from a deck that has a lot of cycle and a small combo isn’t as likely to achieve the effect.
As an aside an completely sort of unrelated to this post, does anyone know why Mindrender Illucia was nerfed? She's difficult to play, very situational and ( as far as I'm aware) no one was complaining about her when she got nerfed. The stats to mana ratio are now terrible (as they were before the nerf) and most of the cards you would want to be able to play are often now out of reach given the mana cost.
It seems wierd that TIckatus has survived without intervention and lots of people hate it yet she got nerfed out of the blue when no one expected it (and could be a reasonable counter to Tickatus)
For the past year or two, we've had a tremendous power creep of aggressive cards, while power level of control remained pretty much the same. Aggro can now draw whole deck by the turn 7-8, continuously dealing tons of face damage (often unblockable, from hand). At the same time, Brawl is still THE BEST mass removal in the game (yes, card from 7 years ago...) and access to reliable, cheap and strong healing is nonexistent.
Face damage is so powerful now, that we need cards like: 2 mana, heal your hero for 15 or 3 mana 3/20 taunt, can't be targeted by spells or Hero Powers. No, I'm not kidding... Since there's no chance of that in the near future, I'm done with HS for now.
So I understand Secret Paladin has plenty of draw with Northwatch Commander and deck thinning with Sword of the Fallen and all that. But how is Hunter a part of this "draws their whole deck" conversation? It got a single card that draws more than one card and I don't think aggro decks would play a 5 mana 3/5. Is there something I'm missing?
please don't bully my son
Hunter has very consistent and powerful aggro tools (including it’s hero power). It doesn’t need to rely on drawing it’s deck as much as some other aggro decks do.
With that said I imagine old school Control decks would fare quite well against Face Hunter, atleast more so than something like Weapon Rogue.
Iksar has already said in one of the Q&As, that if Tickatus Warlock was ever 10-15% of the meta, they’d probably look to making adjustments. As of right now, it is currently 14% of the meta across all ranks & 11% in legend. It’s the 2nd most popular deck in the game behind face hunter, despite being a “bad deck.”
Whether or not they will actually follow through with adjustments, remains to be seen. Stay tuned.
Illucia was designed as a late-game disruption card, but at 2 mana many players would play it versus aggro on t2, followed by playing the opponent's Coin + some 1-drop. Then the aggro player would effectively be stuck with a useless hand on turn 2 that is probably full of expensive removal spells meaning he had no way to continue developing tempo and come back on t3 to a hand that is already missing some resources. Such a play was often game-ending at t2 and the devs thought that this was not the way Illucia was intended to be used when designed