No, the problem is if you don't adjust your gameplan with one of these decks. Unless you are confident that your removal tools can handle all the shit that DoL can produce, perhaps it's a better idea to switch plan and try to bring some stats on board and kill them while they spend their turn 4 doing nothing.
Ain't gonna work. There's a serious lack of sticky minions at the moment and Spell Mage has more than enough removal to crush that gameplan.
With Priest: get a Sethekk on board, buff it, get a bunch of random value and start pushing damage.
Control Warrior decks have lots of ways to bring stats on board as well as push damage with weapons.
Not really. And keep in mind there's a very real chance you're trying to get through 46 HP with Ice Barrier off of the Ring Tosses.
You just can't develop a winning board these days unless you have a deck built specifically to do that within the first 3-4 turns, and no control deck is capable of that. And maybe that's fine; midrange should beat "do nothing". But I guess my gripe is that it overperforms against other midrange and faster minion-based decks. And I think that's a product of mana cheating and card draw.
i've beaten a lot of mages with priest... with nzoth and now miracle.. but yeah i hate them anyway, because if you dont draw your key cards you are doomed.
With the nerfs one witnessed the political management of a dissatisfied crowd. Nothing really changed, but at least devs pretend to do something about preconceived idea who should rule the meta. With the ascention of the new expansion Mage was prominent in their marketing trailers. So you don't nerf Deck of Lunacy to oblivion. The non-target audience will continue to be dissatisfied. But who cares as long as the fanboys keep celebrating the intended mindlessness.
You're clearly just a fanboy troll who doesn't understand the game. Git good, scrub!
Teach me then. I'm all ears. You seem to understand the game or shall I say card design politics?
I kinda agree with you in the "yeah they dont nerf mage because they want Mage and Paladin to be good actualle" yeah but that is not a fair point. Like obviusly every expansion, in every card game, the devs already have a favorite deck (class, color, craft, pick the name) for a particular expansion. I am not against that. My problem is how you set that Class on the top. Lets talk about Paladin, everyone knows paladin is busted but even when we are not happy with paladin you dont see that many people talking about how paladin is unfair. In fact the only people that want Paladin ULTRA NERF are the high legend players and the pro-players because they know how problematic is that mach that has not RNG factor. So is a deck that probably will remain strong until a new deck shows up.
Deck of Lunacy and Spell mage as a whole is a clown festa but with really good rng high rolls and a great limited card pull. Its a card and a deck that in general no one like. You can go to any streamer or any youtuber channel and see their reactions every time they face spell mage. That is not just them hating the matchup. Everyone here also hate this matchup. I can even imagine that MAGES PLAYERS hate this matchup in the mirror because is just about who gets the better RnG faster and how likely is that the tables turns. Which is not fun. Is not you winning or losing the game, you play Lunacy and you start drawing cards, the system will decide if you win or not.
With the nerfs one witnessed the political management of a dissatisfied crowd. Nothing really changed, but at least devs pretend to do something about preconceived idea who should rule the meta. With the ascention of the new expansion Mage was prominent in their marketing trailers. So you don't nerf Deck of Lunacy to oblivion. The non-target audience will continue to be dissatisfied. But who cares as long as the fanboys keep celebrating the intended mindlessness.
You're clearly just a fanboy troll who doesn't understand the game. Git good, scrub!
Teach me then. I'm all ears. You seem to understand the game or shall I say card design politics?
Do I? What gives you that impression?
Ok then you were just babbling. As any good Pavlovian regurgitation of 'gid good' means.
Glad you cottoned on there, champ. Was just meeting babble with babble.
DoL at 4 mana seems fair. Being played later means that (a) it transforms fewer spells and (b) you have to spend your turn 4 doing nothing. If you guys can't develop enough tempo to beat a deck that passes on t4 then the problem is the deck you are playing and not DoL
So the problem is with you if you play warlock, priest and warrior?
Every deck has good and bad matchups, it is of course your responsibility and your decision to play a deck that is bad against the most played deck in the meta. You'd still lose even if they cut Lunacy from the deck, it's just a bad matchup, deal with it or play a different deck.
This isn't 2014 anymore, every matchup is polarized and unfair except the mirror match, deck strategies, game plans and finisher cards are just too different in power and design to ever be balanced with each other, even the amount of card draw is widely different between classes, imagine playing shaman or priest against rogue or mage, it's not even the same game anymore, on turn 10 they have emptied their deck and you still have 15 cards in yours. Your most important skill isn't knowing how to play the game it's knowing what deck to use and what changes to make in your deck to get the edge, based on where you are on the ladder, if it's day or night and if it's early or late in the month.
i agree and disagree with you and you maybe know why is this. Like you said is our decision to play something. And i said very early that i accept the bad matches like Warlock. I dont want Priest to be able to win against everything. But lets be honest here: is no Mage beating priest 24/7. Its Mage beating any midrage and control deck 24/7. Like yaah some people can have good rolls and win consistenly against Mage as Priest or Druid or Warrior, that stuff happens. Still numbers show that Mages has even more winrate than Paladin against all the kinds of decks i name on multiple pages. How do you call that? a deck that has more than 65% winrate against 4 different decks and more. Its absurd. That is beyond unbalance. There are more decks hard losing to mage just because is mages and they just happen to play something that is not face Hunter or face Demon Hunter or face shaman than people losing to paladin (that is the best deck in the meta). That just 100% a problem. And even in this 3 "good matchups" only 2 (hunter and DH) are increasing their winrate against mage. Shaman is not getting over the 50% winrate consistenly.
It's not about DoL played winrates. It's at 70%ish post nerf, which is insane in a vacuum anyway, but the point is, people like myself would hate it if it was 50%. It is what it does to the gameplay- it just removes any sense of fun, turns the game into a total clown-fiesta.
It just isn't the experience I want from a Online CCG. Watchposts, on the other hand, which got hit with huge (and effective) nerfs, I felt like were some of the more interesting cards to be added to the game in a while. They changed the game up, and I'm sad to see them essentially removed.
It's not about DoL played winrates. It's at 70%ish post nerf, which is insane in a vacuum anyway, but the point is, people like myself would hate it if it was 50%. It is what it does to the gameplay- it just removes any sense of fun, turns the game into a total clown-fiesta.
It just isn't the experience I want from a Online CCG. Watchposts, on the other hand, which got hit with huge (and effective) nerfs, I felt like were some of the more interesting cards to be added to the game in a while. They changed the game up, and I'm sad to see them essentially removed.
I agree on this. I have tried Kargal Priest in wild, it is surprisingly effective. After nerfs, the deck slows opponent significantly less down. They can way too easily remove them now. I would personally want posts not to be nerfed. I will try it few more times but I will probably dust Kargal when I will get full dust refund anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
The correct way to nerf it would be to raise it to 3 mana (not 4) and then make it change random spells that cost one to three more. I would think the intent of this card was to be more random but it's easy to feed spells in when you know what spells are three levels higher and what you'll get.. i.e. filling with three mana cost spells so you get all the draw spells that cost six normally. If it was random one to three higher, that gives it more of a random feel and overall would be the better nerf.
People don't seem to understand a pretty obvious thing. The nerfs weren't meant to make Lunacy Mage worse against its good matchups. They were meant to make sure that its bad matchups beat it even harder. The nerf to the Watch Posts should give some breathing room for Aggro decks to come back into the game. With more aggro decks populating the ladder, Lunacy Mage will start running into more bad matchups and those should bring its win rate down to a reasonable level where it's not utterly garbage but far from meta defining. They don't want the deck to die because a lot of people enjoy it but they also don't want ladder tryhards thinking that it's super competitive and that they should play it for maximum efficiency on their climb to the high ranks. This should diminish the total population of the deck and its win rate should come down to an okay number (not great but not terrible either).
Dude you came to the wrong place with your logic and reason lol
Sinse the nerf i have playing non-stop with a couple of builds of Spell priest, control priest and corrupt priest. The number of mage matchups not change at all. The reason? the deck seems indifferent to the nerf. This may not suprise nobody because they dont really touch the effect of the card and this is one of those cards that it really dont matter when it comes to play unless you will lose the game if you play the card in that same turn: which is not happening on turn 4.
The matchup against aggro become worse? yeah but Spell mage was losing that match already, face DH, aggro hunter and Doom hammer shaman, all this decks win pretty often against Spell-mage or atleast that is what i imagine sinse there is not enough freeze spells to stop any of this decks in rotation. But Midrange, Tempo, Combo and Control decks cant do anything to punish Lunacy on 4. The game will procede as the same: they will draw 4 cards for 0 mana (sometimes more if they reduce the cost of Water) and depending of the spells they get and the 6 or more free minions the generate the match will be over for the other player. It is impossible to win this matchup? nope but is pretty unlikely that you will win consistenly against a deck that generate random high cost spells that can be played for half their mana cost (and sometimes even less).
I really hope the Devs understand that this deck is just unhealthy for the game. The ladder will remain the same: aggro tier 2 decks, paladin, mage and rogue in the last spot. In all my years playing HS i cant remember a card that feels so opressive for so many archtypes sise DH Druid and Cubelock. And...this honestly feels even worse because is not a linear combo is just...get destroyed by RNG but your opponent has too little chances to get a "bad roll" of spells in all the matches.
Kibler's suggestion of having Lunacy buff the spells by 1-4 mana instead of 3 would go a long way... things are too consistent at +3 with this small spell pool. Adding to the chaos by swinging the mana cost more would be fitting, as well as a good nerf to effect.
Meanwhile, the shell of spell mage is still very strong. Most absurdly is Refreshing Spring Water (not even mentioned on the first page of this thread!). A 0-mana Draw 2 shows that no one in Hearthstone balance has any clue.
Well yeah what did you expect, if they nerf most op card of the most played class in HS, people will leave game. Also, only Penflinger got nerfed, rest of the cards got "readjusted".
Kibler's suggestion of having Lunacy buff the spells by 1-4 mana instead of 3 would go a long way... things are too consistent at +3 with this small spell pool. Adding to the chaos by swinging the mana cost more would be fitting, as well as a good nerf to effect.
Meanwhile, the shell of spell mage is still very strong. Most absurdly is Refreshing Spring Water (not even mentioned on the first page of this thread!). A 0-mana Draw 2 shows that no one in Hearthstone balance has any clue.
This is what concerns me. Although I find Barrens to be a fairly vanilla expansion I can appreciate how a lot of the craziness has been toned down. However printing cards like Refreshing Spring Water and Sword of the Fallen - which cheat out both mana and card draw for no downside outside of playing them in the deck they were designed to be played in - show that the design team are on completely different wavelengths to me when it comes to that aspect of the game.
It feels like their answer to pushing any new archetype is to just give them cheap/free card draw and a couple of over-statted tempo cards.
When people make these comments I always wonder what rank they are and why they don't play a counter? Are you playing in Gold or Platinum ranks? Because at D5 the meta is much more defined and the deck even before the nerf wasn't an easy push to legend. It's just not. Minion mage is very susceptible to aggro and weapons. It cannot heal. Yea it can burst sometimes. Yea it can draw very well. But some of these cards aren't that great. Alexis Blast minion pool is terrible.
When people make these comments I always wonder what rank they are and why they don't play a counter? Are you playing in Gold or Platinum ranks? Because at D5 the meta is much more defined and the deck even before the nerf wasn't an easy push to legend. It's just not. Minion mage is very susceptible to aggro and weapons. It cannot heal. Yea it can burst sometimes. Yea it can draw very well. But some of these cards aren't that great. Alexis Blast minion pool is terrible.
Well data shows that the deck is still the secon strongest deck of the meta nad it has only 2 real counters (just one of those is a real dealt for mage). So when people make this comments its more about "this is still locking the meta en 2 (Paladin and Mage decks and only counter decks allows (Hunter and DH)" Which is not fun and is one of the most restricted metas in this last expansions. People is also complaining about the easy turn tables hyper good rng pull. Apexis Blast minion pool is far better than before. Orb and Font of power card pool are also excelent. So its the best deck of the world? nope for sure. But is the most unfun deck of the meta for sure. As i said even when paladin is fairly stronger people dont complain about paladin because is a more linear matchup. You know when you win or you lose against Paladin. Against mage, you never know.
Ain't gonna work. There's a serious lack of sticky minions at the moment and Spell Mage has more than enough removal to crush that gameplan.
Devolving Missiles
Not really. And keep in mind there's a very real chance you're trying to get through 46 HP with Ice Barrier off of the Ring Tosses.
You just can't develop a winning board these days unless you have a deck built specifically to do that within the first 3-4 turns, and no control deck is capable of that. And maybe that's fine; midrange should beat "do nothing". But I guess my gripe is that it overperforms against other midrange and faster minion-based decks. And I think that's a product of mana cheating and card draw.
i've beaten a lot of mages with priest... with nzoth and now miracle.. but yeah i hate them anyway, because if you dont draw your key cards you are doomed.
I kinda agree with you in the "yeah they dont nerf mage because they want Mage and Paladin to be good actualle" yeah but that is not a fair point. Like obviusly every expansion, in every card game, the devs already have a favorite deck (class, color, craft, pick the name) for a particular expansion. I am not against that. My problem is how you set that Class on the top. Lets talk about Paladin, everyone knows paladin is busted but even when we are not happy with paladin you dont see that many people talking about how paladin is unfair. In fact the only people that want Paladin ULTRA NERF are the high legend players and the pro-players because they know how problematic is that mach that has not RNG factor. So is a deck that probably will remain strong until a new deck shows up.
Deck of Lunacy and Spell mage as a whole is a clown festa but with really good rng high rolls and a great limited card pull. Its a card and a deck that in general no one like. You can go to any streamer or any youtuber channel and see their reactions every time they face spell mage. That is not just them hating the matchup. Everyone here also hate this matchup. I can even imagine that MAGES PLAYERS hate this matchup in the mirror because is just about who gets the better RnG faster and how likely is that the tables turns. Which is not fun. Is not you winning or losing the game, you play Lunacy and you start drawing cards, the system will decide if you win or not.
Glad you cottoned on there, champ. Was just meeting babble with babble.
i agree and disagree with you and you maybe know why is this. Like you said is our decision to play something. And i said very early that i accept the bad matches like Warlock. I dont want Priest to be able to win against everything. But lets be honest here: is no Mage beating priest 24/7. Its Mage beating any midrage and control deck 24/7. Like yaah some people can have good rolls and win consistenly against Mage as Priest or Druid or Warrior, that stuff happens. Still numbers show that Mages has even more winrate than Paladin against all the kinds of decks i name on multiple pages. How do you call that? a deck that has more than 65% winrate against 4 different decks and more. Its absurd. That is beyond unbalance. There are more decks hard losing to mage just because is mages and they just happen to play something that is not face Hunter or face Demon Hunter or face shaman than people losing to paladin (that is the best deck in the meta). That just 100% a problem. And even in this 3 "good matchups" only 2 (hunter and DH) are increasing their winrate against mage. Shaman is not getting over the 50% winrate consistenly.
It's not about DoL played winrates. It's at 70%ish post nerf, which is insane in a vacuum anyway, but the point is, people like myself would hate it if it was 50%. It is what it does to the gameplay- it just removes any sense of fun, turns the game into a total clown-fiesta.
It just isn't the experience I want from a Online CCG. Watchposts, on the other hand, which got hit with huge (and effective) nerfs, I felt like were some of the more interesting cards to be added to the game in a while. They changed the game up, and I'm sad to see them essentially removed.
I agree on this. I have tried Kargal Priest in wild, it is surprisingly effective. After nerfs, the deck slows opponent significantly less down. They can way too easily remove them now. I would personally want posts not to be nerfed. I will try it few more times but I will probably dust Kargal when I will get full dust refund anyway.
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
The correct way to nerf it would be to raise it to 3 mana (not 4) and then make it change random spells that cost one to three more. I would think the intent of this card was to be more random but it's easy to feed spells in when you know what spells are three levels higher and what you'll get.. i.e. filling with three mana cost spells so you get all the draw spells that cost six normally. If it was random one to three higher, that gives it more of a random feel and overall would be the better nerf.
Dude you came to the wrong place with your logic and reason lol
I played more than 100 games after patch, didnt see a single lunacy mage and i like it :3
Since*
They should nerf apexis blast.... it is a cancer for the same reason that they nerf barov.
Kibler's suggestion of having Lunacy buff the spells by 1-4 mana instead of 3 would go a long way... things are too consistent at +3 with this small spell pool. Adding to the chaos by swinging the mana cost more would be fitting, as well as a good nerf to effect.
Meanwhile, the shell of spell mage is still very strong. Most absurdly is Refreshing Spring Water (not even mentioned on the first page of this thread!). A 0-mana Draw 2 shows that no one in Hearthstone balance has any clue.
Well yeah what did you expect, if they nerf most op card of the most played class in HS, people will leave game. Also, only Penflinger got nerfed, rest of the cards got "readjusted".
Every time my opponent plays Lunacy on turn 4 I go "Well, I guess I win then"
Very different experience from before. Only once did a mage actually recover. And that involved getting Skull of Gul'dan.
I've been playing spell mage without it and I feel that is waayyy better.
This is what concerns me. Although I find Barrens to be a fairly vanilla expansion I can appreciate how a lot of the craziness has been toned down. However printing cards like Refreshing Spring Water and Sword of the Fallen - which cheat out both mana and card draw for no downside outside of playing them in the deck they were designed to be played in - show that the design team are on completely different wavelengths to me when it comes to that aspect of the game.
It feels like their answer to pushing any new archetype is to just give them cheap/free card draw and a couple of over-statted tempo cards.
When people make these comments I always wonder what rank they are and why they don't play a counter? Are you playing in Gold or Platinum ranks? Because at D5 the meta is much more defined and the deck even before the nerf wasn't an easy push to legend. It's just not. Minion mage is very susceptible to aggro and weapons. It cannot heal. Yea it can burst sometimes. Yea it can draw very well. But some of these cards aren't that great. Alexis Blast minion pool is terrible.
Every single class cheats out mana...every single one. Some are worst than others but they all have had their moments.
Well data shows that the deck is still the secon strongest deck of the meta nad it has only 2 real counters (just one of those is a real dealt for mage). So when people make this comments its more about "this is still locking the meta en 2 (Paladin and Mage decks and only counter decks allows (Hunter and DH)" Which is not fun and is one of the most restricted metas in this last expansions. People is also complaining about the easy turn tables hyper good rng pull. Apexis Blast minion pool is far better than before. Orb and Font of power card pool are also excelent. So its the best deck of the world? nope for sure. But is the most unfun deck of the meta for sure. As i said even when paladin is fairly stronger people dont complain about paladin because is a more linear matchup. You know when you win or you lose against Paladin. Against mage, you never know.
ofc the nerf did something... meby it need more nerf who know but saying that it did noting is just lieing