...I literally never experienced this "Watch Posts completely shut down early game" thing people are talking about. It forced me to rethink my curve, but I never thought "wow, guess I lose".
you pass turn 1. Your opponent coins Far Watch Post. You have no removal on 2, and no playable card. Your opponent develops a minion. You draw another card, going to +1 mana. You pass. Your opponent plays Mankirk/other watch post. You see the problem here?
Your hand would have to be absolutely horrible if you have literally no minions to play by turn 3.
And if your opponent is doing nothing but playing watch posts for 2 turns, they haven't really developed anything anyway.
Those watchposts will ruin your entire game plan, if they stay up. If you always have early minions on curve, good for you, great even. But not every deck has them, and not every deck has to have them. The watchposts do too much, and if you cannot contest them on board, you should be able to remove them for at least their original cost.
But are there not to be cards that ruin your gameplan? It feels kinda natural to oppose cards that actually do something.
...I literally never experienced this "Watch Posts completely shut down early game" thing people are talking about. It forced me to rethink my curve, but I never thought "wow, guess I lose".
you pass turn 1. Your opponent coins Far Watch Post. You have no removal on 2, and no playable card. Your opponent develops a minion. You draw another card, going to +1 mana. You pass. Your opponent plays Mankirk/other watch post. You see the problem here?
Your hand would have to be absolutely horrible if you have literally no minions to play by turn 3.
And if your opponent is doing nothing but playing watch posts for 2 turns, they haven't really developed anything anyway.
Those watchposts will ruin your entire game plan, if they stay up. If you always have early minions on curve, good for you, great even. But not every deck has them, and not every deck has to have them. The watchposts do too much, and if you cannot contest them on board, you should be able to remove them for at least their original cost.
Watchposts were not broken ffs, do you rather want to deal with another toxic hyper aggro Meta ? The Stats don't lie, Watch posts were perfectly balanced before the Nerfs, and will be screwed after the Patch hits today.
They HAVE to be a bit overtuned on the Health end, since they can't attack, how can one not get it ?
Deck of Lunacy - I think the power level of the card is still way off balance with the new 4-cost. It's really on T6/7 (playing midrange/control) that you're punished. It's STILL an opening hand keep + auto-win! Perhaps it's making aggro more effective but it will still be oppressive against many of the slower board centric strategies.
Pen flinger - Good that it hasn't the face damage, but I think the fact that rogue is going to be so strong after this, it doesn't matter! Rogue will find ways to finish you off, so will paladin through value.
The Watchposts + jandice - Far Watchpost was one of the best designed cards of recent times. Great tool against aggro and also miracle rogue/priest and Mage - midrange board centric decks had a chance at just generally SLOWING THE GAME DOWN! Mor'shan WP feels like a fair target, but i do wonder if targeting the Grunts (2/1) would have been a better move... at least subtler :/.
Watchpost Rogue doesn't really care about the effectiveness of the posts themselves, it's Kargal's procs to shadowstep and summon more grunts! Jandice nerf is a speed bump, but rogue is gonna be out of control.
Paladins are gonna surge, as are rogues.
Shadow step is the problem - being able to store 2 mana with excessive synergy for free is so out of balance compared other midrange classes (except librums).
Jandice, paladin weapon, lunacy and pen flinger were really predictable nerfs, but I was expecting more hits for paladin, because even without pen flinger hitting face he is still a strong class
rogue and Mage were the classes that were the most shaken off with this nerfs, no more turn 2 Lunacy into shenanigans the rest of the game or watchposts screwing you for a long time
People get happy when nerfs are announced thinking that all annoying cards are gone so they will win more not realising that all nerfs have one thing in common - to bring average win rates down to 50% —> more grinding
People get happy when nerfs are announced thinking that all annoying cards are gone so they will win more not realising that all nerfs have one thing in common - to bring average win rates down to 50% —> more grinding
...I literally never experienced this "Watch Posts completely shut down early game" thing people are talking about. It forced me to rethink my curve, but I never thought "wow, guess I lose".
you pass turn 1. Your opponent coins Far Watch Post. You have no removal on 2, and no playable card. Your opponent develops a minion. You draw another card, going to +1 mana. You pass. Your opponent plays Mankirk/other watch post. You see the problem here?
Your hand would have to be absolutely horrible if you have literally no minions to play by turn 3.
And if your opponent is doing nothing but playing watch posts for 2 turns, they haven't really developed anything anyway.
Those watchposts will ruin your entire game plan, if they stay up. If you always have early minions on curve, good for you, great even. But not every deck has them, and not every deck has to have them. The watchposts do too much, and if you cannot contest them on board, you should be able to remove them for at least their original cost.
Watchposts were not broken ffs, do you rather want to deal with another toxic hyper aggro Meta ? The Stats don't lie, Watch posts were perfectly balanced before the Nerfs, and will be screwed after the Patch hits today.
They HAVE to be a bit overtuned on the Health end, since they can't attack, how can one not get it ?
I think what you don't get is that their unability to attack is balanced by the fact that they punish your opponent for drawing cards or playing minions. Buying the first user time and precious tempo. There is no reason why they should not be removable by spells that costs as much as the watch posts do.
Edit: your screenshot proves how op they are, mainly the 2 mana one, when played early (highest winrate in the deck). They were meant to be niche card choices (think cult neophyte), not meta or deck defining.
...I literally never experienced this "Watch Posts completely shut down early game" thing people are talking about. It forced me to rethink my curve, but I never thought "wow, guess I lose".
you pass turn 1. Your opponent coins Far Watch Post. You have no removal on 2, and no playable card. Your opponent develops a minion. You draw another card, going to +1 mana. You pass. Your opponent plays Mankirk/other watch post. You see the problem here?
Your hand would have to be absolutely horrible if you have literally no minions to play by turn 3.
And if your opponent is doing nothing but playing watch posts for 2 turns, they haven't really developed anything anyway.
Those watchposts will ruin your entire game plan, if they stay up. If you always have early minions on curve, good for you, great even. But not every deck has them, and not every deck has to have them. The watchposts do too much, and if you cannot contest them on board, you should be able to remove them for at least their original cost.
Watchposts were not broken ffs, do you rather want to deal with another toxic hyper aggro Meta ? The Stats don't lie, Watch posts were perfectly balanced before the Nerfs, and will be screwed after the Patch hits today.
They HAVE to be a bit overtuned on the Health end, since they can't attack, how can one not get it ?
I think what you don't get is that their unability to attack is balanced by the fact that they punish your opponent for drawing cards or playing minions. Buying the first user time and precious tempo. There is no reason why they should not be removable by spells that costs as much as the watch posts do.
Edit: your screenshot proves how op they are, mainly the 2 mana one, when played early (highest winrate in the deck). They were meant to be niche card choices (think cult neophyte), not meta or deck defining.
They were definitely meant to be deck defining obviously, there's a whole deck archetype for them. And who's to say they can't be deck defining? It seemed obvious to me it was a new archetype meant to slow down games. I dunno if they were meant to be quite as widespread as they are, and in as wide a variety of decks, but the nerf was pretty harsh. A 2/3 that can't attack is pretty irrelevant. A 1/4 would have still forced players to actually commit resources to deal with them, but they'd trade much better.
Now it's dealt with by a single holy smite or drain soul.
And again, the watch posts cost significant tempo. Losing your turn 2 to a card that can't attack means you're not actually threatening your opponent. You're just slowing them down a little.
And a 54% winrate is not broken. It's high, but it's not broken.
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But are there not to be cards that ruin your gameplan? It feels kinda natural to oppose cards that actually do something.
Watchposts were not broken ffs, do you rather want to deal with another toxic hyper aggro Meta ? The Stats don't lie, Watch posts were perfectly balanced before the Nerfs, and will be screwed after the Patch hits today.
They HAVE to be a bit overtuned on the Health end, since they can't attack, how can one not get it ?
They just don't change the landscape at all imo.
Deck of Lunacy - I think the power level of the card is still way off balance with the new 4-cost. It's really on T6/7 (playing midrange/control) that you're punished. It's STILL an opening hand keep + auto-win! Perhaps it's making aggro more effective but it will still be oppressive against many of the slower board centric strategies.
Pen flinger - Good that it hasn't the face damage, but I think the fact that rogue is going to be so strong after this, it doesn't matter! Rogue will find ways to finish you off, so will paladin through value.
The Watchposts + jandice - Far Watchpost was one of the best designed cards of recent times. Great tool against aggro and also miracle rogue/priest and Mage - midrange board centric decks had a chance at just generally SLOWING THE GAME DOWN! Mor'shan WP feels like a fair target, but i do wonder if targeting the Grunts (2/1) would have been a better move... at least subtler :/.
Watchpost Rogue doesn't really care about the effectiveness of the posts themselves, it's Kargal's procs to shadowstep and summon more grunts! Jandice nerf is a speed bump, but rogue is gonna be out of control.
Paladins are gonna surge, as are rogues.
Shadow step is the problem - being able to store 2 mana with excessive synergy for free is so out of balance compared other midrange classes (except librums).
Thanks for the dust from my golden Jandice
Jandice, paladin weapon, lunacy and pen flinger were really predictable nerfs, but I was expecting more hits for paladin, because even without pen flinger hitting face he is still a strong class
rogue and Mage were the classes that were the most shaken off with this nerfs, no more turn 2 Lunacy into shenanigans the rest of the game or watchposts screwing you for a long time
No brainer aggro decks will dominate again.
People get happy when nerfs are announced thinking that all annoying cards are gone so they will win more not realising that all nerfs have one thing in common - to bring average win rates down to 50% —> more grinding
What? average wr is always 50%.
I think what you don't get is that their unability to attack is balanced by the fact that they punish your opponent for drawing cards or playing minions. Buying the first user time and precious tempo. There is no reason why they should not be removable by spells that costs as much as the watch posts do.
Edit: your screenshot proves how op they are, mainly the 2 mana one, when played early (highest winrate in the deck). They were meant to be niche card choices (think cult neophyte), not meta or deck defining.
They were definitely meant to be deck defining obviously, there's a whole deck archetype for them. And who's to say they can't be deck defining? It seemed obvious to me it was a new archetype meant to slow down games. I dunno if they were meant to be quite as widespread as they are, and in as wide a variety of decks, but the nerf was pretty harsh. A 2/3 that can't attack is pretty irrelevant. A 1/4 would have still forced players to actually commit resources to deal with them, but they'd trade much better.
Now it's dealt with by a single holy smite or drain soul.
And again, the watch posts cost significant tempo. Losing your turn 2 to a card that can't attack means you're not actually threatening your opponent. You're just slowing them down a little.
And a 54% winrate is not broken. It's high, but it's not broken.