Devolving missiles is a good card and would probably still see play at 2 mana but it is still one of the few silences left in standard and it is not very reliable silence. Deathrattles and buffs need some counters.
I think that Devolving Missiles is a powerful card. One that is almost without argument: too powerful to be 1 mana. However, even at its incredible power level, I don't think it's "problematic". 2.5 classes (Wand Thief gives Rogue access to this as well) being able to counter taunts and other on-board threats with Devolving is fine imo. It's punishing early, but I don't think I've ever lost a game to a Devolving, and I play primarily aggro-midrange. If on turn 3 my opponent, for instance a Mage, commits to Devolving + Hero Power, they haven't actually developed on board and I can just play more minions to threaten them with. It's usually fine.
I think we're not in a state of the game where it's problematic, but I think it could be. If I were to change it at all, I'd make it 2 mana simply to deny random generation off of Wandmaker, as well as clean turn 3 removals with Mage Hero Power or Rogue Daggers. Presently, since we're looking at incoming nerfs, I'd give it time. If Watch Posts become more and more common, Devolving will be a valuable counter for all genres of Mage or Shaman decks who want to play. Far Watch Post is brutal, especially if there's a pair of em. Efficiently removing them? I'd say somebody should be able to do it.
There's a difference between tempo and aggro decks, though. Aggro decks don't care about their boards, tempo decks need to build momentum in order to build up boards and deal enough damage to their opponent to win.
And honestly? I don't think Watch Posts are a problem. They force control decks to play for board and be pro-active. If they are an issue that big, this same 1 mana card dealing with them isn't necessarily reasonable either.
don't forget to say devolving missles played by a mage... because that is what you are talking about i am sure
This year, obviously mage is using devolving missiles more than shaman, but shaman can generate it too, and I think the card itself is a problem. I don't think necessarily shaman and mage are a problem.
Devolving missiles is a good card and would probably still see play at 2 mana but it is still one of the few silences left in standard and it is not very reliable silence. Deathrattles and buffs need some counters.
I mean, they don't. When was the last time a deathrattle or a buff card was a problem in of itself? Cards like Van Cleef, sure. Cards that for efficient costs get really big stats or deathrattles that have game winning effects for their cost. And if this is a necessity, why did they cut down on all the efficient silence cards *except* for devolving missiles? No more Sap, Silence, Mass Dispel. If anything, buff decks are really not doing particularly well right now unless it's Paladin, who has a number of tools to recover buffs and resources and build big mid-game boards.
Like honestly, tempo decks aren't even particularly good right now. (I think libram paladin is the only tempo deck which sees any play?). So I'm not sure I follow this.
Its perfectly fine, really. If its possible to die on turn 4 from super buffed whack 1 mana minions, then it also should be possible to counter it.
That said, when you have 2-3 minions on the board, the randomness of devolving missiles already makes it very weak.
When there's just one minion on the board the sheer RNG can get tilting :P Decent chance of failing to answer a lone Ogremancer, for example. If there's something else with it, you shouldn't rely on missiles. That's part of why it's a stronger card in mage - pings help you control targets to some extent.
Its perfectly fine, really. If its possible to die on turn 4 from super buffed whack 1 mana minions, then it also should be possible to counter it.
That said, when you have 2-3 minions on the board, the randomness of devolving missiles already makes it very weak.
When there's just one minion on the board the sheer RNG can get tilting :P Decent chance of failing to answer a lone Ogremancer, for example. If there's something else with it, you shouldn't rely on missiles. That's part of why it's a stronger card in mage - pings help you control targets to some extent.
Really, a feelsbad card from both ends.
So when a 1 mana card doesn't counter a 5 cost minion that's... tilting? Again, this is what I'm not getting.
How bad can you be at the game if you lose against devolving missiles. Lol
I play tempo decks. They often lose to devolving missiles. it's one of the reasons nobody is playing tempo decks right now. Even if they don't know it.
Can you give an example of the tempo decks you play? I've always heard people discuss "tempo" but I've never really known what it meant for sure.
Tempo decks are when you play on curve and maximize your board presence while reducing the board presence of your opponent.
So tempo rogue involves cheating out a lot of stats using Foxy Fraud and Ticket Master and Scabbs Cutterbutter, while using Backstab and Prize Plunderer and whatever to clear your opponent's threats. Getting ahead early and keeping a board lead through the game.
It's different from aggro rogue, where you just play things to hit your opponent in the face, whittling them down and killing them. Using self-sharpening sword, sinister strike, deadly poison ,etc.
The former really hates Devolving Missiles because you're trying to get a board lead, while the latter doesn't care, it's just trying to burn your opponent's health.
At the same time, they are a really weird card to evaluate. Similar to Devolve, they might backfire and sometimes they are straight useless. Of course, this holds true for all removal cards, but Devolving Missiles can be dangerous to use against a wide variety of boards.
On the other hand, when they are good, they feel way too good (just like Devolve did). There are so many things Devolving Missiles can dismantle for one mana that it's simply ridiculous. They can also shut down expensive deathrattle minions, which also often feels unfair (for 1 mana). They completely wreck corrupted Strongmen. They counter buffs. The list goes on and on ...
The only reason this card is 1 mana is that it's a dual-class card and it's supposed to be a variation of Arcane Missiles. At 1 mana, it's way too easy to set it up or clear after it, so a mana increase would definitely make sense.
And speaking of "problematic" removal cards, another card I find equally disturbing (although it's already been nerfed and sits at 3 mana) is Hysteria. This card seems way too good at what it does. Yes, there are boards it can't answer, but there are so many boards where you simply play Hysteria and watch a 20-mana board vanish into dust.
It’s hard to say if it should be changed. The thing about devolving missililes is that it’s great for early game tempo, but its usefulness decays a lot as the match goes on. Turning a 3 drop into a 0 drop for example is great, but turning 3 5 mana cards into 3 4 mana cards doesn’t do that much, especially if you are running high value Battlecry minions because then you might actually benefit from devolving missiles. Later on in the game it reduces a lower percentage of your tempo than in the early game, so it’s “balanced” by being a bad draw in the late game and a fair draw in the mid game.
i mean i just want to point that every time there is only one or two targets on board the card is still far better than most removal options. Negates buffs and Deathrattles. And depending on the mana cost it will transform the minion into something pretty useless. for 1 mana this card is a little overtuned.
your deck is weak to a card so it should be nerfed? lol LOL LuLolOl
Any board centric deck is extremely weak to it, and it's too cheap for how high impact it's effect is. I'm not even concerned about the RNG aspect, or how it deals with big minions on the board, I'm talking about what a hard tech it is against any type of buff effect or deathrattle.
I hate the card wholeheartedly.
Whenever I play Devolving Missiles it ALWAYS hits the weakest target three times in a row. ALWAYS.
If it is played against me it ALWAYS hits my strongest minion.
This isn't me being over the top either, it genuinely does this every time.
don't forget to say devolving missles played by a mage... because that is what you are talking about i am sure
Devolving missiles is a good card and would probably still see play at 2 mana but it is still one of the few silences left in standard and it is not very reliable silence. Deathrattles and buffs need some counters.
I don't mind it. More to feed for Skulking Geist
On the other hand, I use it in my odd totem galakrond shaman and it is needed for the deck... I would be sad to see it go.
Not to add how would they nerf it? They can't nerf it's mana because at 3 mana it would be shit card and at 2 it would be just worst devolve.
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
.
Of course He/She does, since u can't see any shaman on the ladder rn 😆
There's a difference between tempo and aggro decks, though. Aggro decks don't care about their boards, tempo decks need to build momentum in order to build up boards and deal enough damage to their opponent to win.
And honestly? I don't think Watch Posts are a problem. They force control decks to play for board and be pro-active. If they are an issue that big, this same 1 mana card dealing with them isn't necessarily reasonable either.
This year, obviously mage is using devolving missiles more than shaman, but shaman can generate it too, and I think the card itself is a problem. I don't think necessarily shaman and mage are a problem.
I mean, they don't. When was the last time a deathrattle or a buff card was a problem in of itself? Cards like Van Cleef, sure. Cards that for efficient costs get really big stats or deathrattles that have game winning effects for their cost. And if this is a necessity, why did they cut down on all the efficient silence cards *except* for devolving missiles? No more Sap, Silence, Mass Dispel. If anything, buff decks are really not doing particularly well right now unless it's Paladin, who has a number of tools to recover buffs and resources and build big mid-game boards.
Like honestly, tempo decks aren't even particularly good right now. (I think libram paladin is the only tempo deck which sees any play?). So I'm not sure I follow this.
Its perfectly fine, really. If its possible to die on turn 4 from super buffed whack 1 mana minions, then it also should be possible to counter it.
That said, when you have 2-3 minions on the board, the randomness of devolving missiles already makes it very weak.
When there's just one minion on the board the sheer RNG can get tilting :P Decent chance of failing to answer a lone Ogremancer, for example. If there's something else with it, you shouldn't rely on missiles. That's part of why it's a stronger card in mage - pings help you control targets to some extent.
Really, a feelsbad card from both ends.
How bad can you be at the game if you lose against devolving missiles. Lol
So when a 1 mana card doesn't counter a 5 cost minion that's... tilting? Again, this is what I'm not getting.
I play tempo decks. They often lose to devolving missiles. it's one of the reasons nobody is playing tempo decks right now. Even if they don't know it.
Can you give an example of the tempo decks you play?
I've always heard people discuss "tempo" but I've never really known what it meant for sure.
please don't bully my son
It's fine.
Tempo decks are when you play on curve and maximize your board presence while reducing the board presence of your opponent.
So tempo rogue involves cheating out a lot of stats using Foxy Fraud and Ticket Master and Scabbs Cutterbutter, while using Backstab and Prize Plunderer and whatever to clear your opponent's threats. Getting ahead early and keeping a board lead through the game.
It's different from aggro rogue, where you just play things to hit your opponent in the face, whittling them down and killing them. Using self-sharpening sword, sinister strike, deadly poison ,etc.
The former really hates Devolving Missiles because you're trying to get a board lead, while the latter doesn't care, it's just trying to burn your opponent's health.
Yes, I find Devolving Missiles to be a "problem".
At the same time, they are a really weird card to evaluate. Similar to Devolve, they might backfire and sometimes they are straight useless. Of course, this holds true for all removal cards, but Devolving Missiles can be dangerous to use against a wide variety of boards.
On the other hand, when they are good, they feel way too good (just like Devolve did). There are so many things Devolving Missiles can dismantle for one mana that it's simply ridiculous. They can also shut down expensive deathrattle minions, which also often feels unfair (for 1 mana). They completely wreck corrupted Strongmen. They counter buffs. The list goes on and on ...
The only reason this card is 1 mana is that it's a dual-class card and it's supposed to be a variation of Arcane Missiles. At 1 mana, it's way too easy to set it up or clear after it, so a mana increase would definitely make sense.
And speaking of "problematic" removal cards, another card I find equally disturbing (although it's already been nerfed and sits at 3 mana) is Hysteria. This card seems way too good at what it does. Yes, there are boards it can't answer, but there are so many boards where you simply play Hysteria and watch a 20-mana board vanish into dust.
i mean i just want to point that every time there is only one or two targets on board the card is still far better than most removal options. Negates buffs and Deathrattles. And depending on the mana cost it will transform the minion into something pretty useless. for 1 mana this card is a little overtuned.
It's usually cast for 0 mana and it's an instant win play vs any deck that needs the board
Which is any deck that isn't mage
Bye forever Hearthstone
your deck is weak to a card so it should be nerfed? lol LOL LuLolOl
Any board centric deck is extremely weak to it, and it's too cheap for how high impact it's effect is. I'm not even concerned about the RNG aspect, or how it deals with big minions on the board, I'm talking about what a hard tech it is against any type of buff effect or deathrattle.