I'm making this thread for one reason, and one reason alone. I HATE Pen Flinger. There's literally no play around it. Your opponent can just ping you down and there's nothing you can do. I end up just watching Hearthstone instead of playing it. Hearing "Hey loser!" and "Wasn't me!" over and over again is SUPER fun and interactive. I'm legitimately hoping he's getting hit. And I'm hoping they make him just target minions. Anytime I see Pen Flinger I just want to concede because I don't want to have to deal with him. Yes this is a salt thread, but I can't STAND Pen Flinger. Even just typing the name makes me sick. I'm really hoping he gets nerfed.
I don’t thing Pen Flinger should target minions. It should cost 2. The real problem is that Paladin and Rogue can fit MANY pen flingers. Specially Paladin, which at some point of the game it can put from 2 to 4 per turn. In the end, every Pen Flinger can do at least 6 damage, and in some cases 10. That’s a Fireball and a Pyroblast with such a low commitment. Just fill your curve. Nothing else.
Unless of course they make it only targeting minions for changing it’s purpose and be a control tool instead of an agro tool... Which now that I think about it, it does make sense. But it’ll be playable only for Rogue, since Paly wants to go face. It has enough board control.
Don't worry, there's a big announcement coming next week, I believe they will finally announce the date of the nerf announcement this time, so just a couple weeks and the nerfs will probably go live.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love you Dreadsteed, I will never disenchant you!
And yet again we see a remarkable willingness to translate personal dislike for a card into complete unjustifiable hyperbole.
Someone made a comment about a Penflinger managing to do 6 to 10 damage as a fireball or pyroblast with "little commitment". This strikes me as . . . well, as a bold-faced lie . . . given that a pyroblast is one card that costs ten mana, and a Pen Flinger doing ten damage is ten mana of casting pen flingers plus ten spells plus whatever mana those spells cost. Seems like that's quite a commitment, as even with the ultimate corner case where a Liadrin gets you ten free librams, you're still looking at a bare minimum of two full turns of investment.
Not for me to tell you what you do or don't like, but that doesn't entitle you to your own version of truth.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
And yet again we see a remarkable willingness to translate personal dislike for a card into complete unjustifiable hyperbole.
Someone made a comment about a Penflinger managing to do 6 to 10 damage as a fireball or pyroblast with "little commitment". This strikes me as . . . well, as a bold-faced lie . . . given that a pyroblast is one card that costs ten mana, and a Pen Flinger doing ten damage is ten mana of casting pen flingers plus ten spells plus whatever mana those spells cost. Seems like that's quite a commitment, as even with the ultimate corner case where a Liadrin gets you ten free librams, you're still looking at a bare minimum of two full turns of investment.
Not for me to tell you what you do or don't like, but that doesn't entitle you to your own version of truth.
Did you even read my post? I literally addressed the cheapest possible way to get 10 damage out of a flinger. Sorry the racism bullshit got erased, but at least try to have a valid critique.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Did you even read my post? I literally addressed the cheapest possible way to get 10 damage out of a flinger. Sorry the racism bullshit got erased, but at least try to have a valid critique.
Not in one turn, but over the course of the game, the same pen flinger can deal 10 damage for sure. So it is way better then pyroblast. So you are just being perky
Did you even read my post? I literally addressed the cheapest possible way to get 10 damage out of a flinger. Sorry the racism bullshit got erased, but at least try to have a valid critique.
Not in one turn, but over the course of the game, the same pen flinger can deal 10 damage for sure. So it is way better then pyroblast. So you are just being perky
I'm going to assume you're a good faith poster here and just say this is why forums are such annoyances. I was responding to a specific claim that made a very false comment about being able to get the same damage out of flinger as out of Pyroblast or Fireball with very little commitment. Multiple turns, double digits worth of other cards, and at least equal mana (and then only at the extreme of corner cases; usually far more mana), is the opposite of "very little" commitment.
3nnui has proven to be a bad faith poster. If I had more discipline I wouldn't have even responded to him, but he has me annoyed by calling me a racist with no foundation earlier. But no, I'm not being "perky". I'm explaining a false claim is false.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
The amount of commitment doesnt matter if the payoff is broken. Pen flinger is an incredible strong tool from turn 1 to turn 10. it provides control on board and pressure going face. it can be the main threat each and every single turn in rog or pala. added up a pen flinger can very well do more than 10 dmg in a game. That dmg comes by filling out your curve and providing the single ping dmg whereever its needed without any being excess. we dont need to nitpick if a pen flinger is the exact same as a pyro or fireball. obviously it isnt but that doesnt change the fact that the pen flinger provides that dmg spread over the entire game anytime you need it. the flexibility and the added up value you can generate with a single 1 mana card is just beyond broken in decks like rogue and pala atm.
The goal of a new expansion - and certainly a new year - should be to have a very different meta than what existed previously.
Penflinger is a major problem if you want to meet this goal. It's so good it's in too many decks. I'm just sick of it. The game doesn't feel too different now, with the exception of Lunacy Mage, which is just awful.
This card, the Watchtowers, and Deck of Lunacy have to be hit hard.
And yet again we see a remarkable willingness to translate personal dislike for a card into complete unjustifiable hyperbole.
Someone made a comment about a Penflinger managing to do 6 to 10 damage as a fireball or pyroblast with "little commitment". This strikes me as . . . well, as a bold-faced lie . . . given that a pyroblast is one card that costs ten mana, and a Pen Flinger doing ten damage is ten mana of casting pen flingers plus ten spells plus whatever mana those spells cost. Seems like that's quite a commitment, as even with the ultimate corner case where a Liadrin gets you ten free librams, you're still looking at a bare minimum of two full turns of investment.
Not for me to tell you what you do or don't like, but that doesn't entitle you to your own version of truth.
Dude, in a deck like Libram Paladin, which reduces the cost of spells by AT LEAST 3 (best scenario can go as big and crazy as 6 + 1 with a hit of that new legendary)... Do you think that playing a bunch of 0 mana spells and using a 1 mana minion before every spell is commitment? Pen Flinger in that deck doesn't require a lot of commitment. It's there for filling your curve and making your plays more efficient...
Yes, you paid 6 or 10 mana for them (I know, I've read the card and saw that it costs 1). Let me ask you a simple question. What is better, paying 10 mana for playing ONE card in ONE turn for 10 damage... Or paying 10 mana spread in multiple turns for buffing many minions, clearing the board and summoning multiple 8/8 while healing for 8 AND also doing 10 damage?
Answer that question, and you'll understand my point.
If you can't understand that, I won't bother answering anything you write after this.
Yes, I'm fully aware pen flinger ten times plus ten buffs is USUALLY better than one pyroblast. That in no way addresses the commitment topic. At a minimum, you're playing Liadrin plus a full subsequent turn of flingers, so if you're just going to stop the analysis at "what's better?" the answer, as usual, is "it depends". If your opponent is at 20 life, pyroblast is much better, since you can get the 10 damage done in one turn and have mana free to play another pyro or other burn cards on the second turn, whereas you'd still be investing mana into the original ten damage with the flinger scenario.
So, I answered your question because you seemed to think it relevant. No idea why you positioned it as a critique of my comment, but the two have nothing to do with each other. I didn't introduce the concept of "commitment" to this argument, I just observed the original point was 100% incorrect, because it is.
Your completely different point is correct. Except in the scenarios when it isn't, as illustrated above.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Did you even read my post? I literally addressed the cheapest possible way to get 10 damage out of a flinger. Sorry the racism bullshit got erased, but at least try to have a valid critique.
Not in one turn, but over the course of the game, the same pen flinger can deal 10 damage for sure. So it is way better then pyroblast. So you are just being perky
I'm going to assume you're a good faith poster here and just say this is why forums are such annoyances. I was responding to a specific claim that made a very false comment about being able to get the same damage out of flinger as out of Pyroblast or Fireball with very little commitment. Multiple turns, double digits worth of other cards, and at least equal mana (and then only at the extreme of corner cases; usually far more mana), is the opposite of "very little" commitment.
3nnui has proven to be a bad faith poster. If I had more discipline I wouldn't have even responded to him, but he has me annoyed by calling me a racist with no foundation earlier. But no, I'm not being "perky". I'm explaining a false claim is false.
You calling someone else a bad faith poster is hilarious. I guess you still have never heard of a libram.
I addressed both individual librams and full hands of librams from liadrin. Read the post
Furthermore, I engage with just about everyone assuming they are posting in earnest until they conclusively prove otherwise, so regardless of what you think of me or my points, "bad faith" has a meaning, and it doesn't apply to me.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
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I'm making this thread for one reason, and one reason alone. I HATE Pen Flinger. There's literally no play around it. Your opponent can just ping you down and there's nothing you can do. I end up just watching Hearthstone instead of playing it. Hearing "Hey loser!" and "Wasn't me!" over and over again is SUPER fun and interactive. I'm legitimately hoping he's getting hit. And I'm hoping they make him just target minions. Anytime I see Pen Flinger I just want to concede because I don't want to have to deal with him. Yes this is a salt thread, but I can't STAND Pen Flinger. Even just typing the name makes me sick. I'm really hoping he gets nerfed.
I don’t thing Pen Flinger should target minions. It should cost 2. The real problem is that Paladin and Rogue can fit MANY pen flingers. Specially Paladin, which at some point of the game it can put from 2 to 4 per turn. In the end, every Pen Flinger can do at least 6 damage, and in some cases 10. That’s a Fireball and a Pyroblast with such a low commitment. Just fill your curve. Nothing else.
Unless of course they make it only targeting minions for changing it’s purpose and be a control tool instead of an agro tool... Which now that I think about it, it does make sense. But it’ll be playable only for Rogue, since Paly wants to go face. It has enough board control.
Don't worry, there's a big announcement coming next week, I believe they will finally announce the date of the nerf announcement this time, so just a couple weeks and the nerfs will
probablygo live.I love you Dreadsteed, I will never disenchant you!
"Balance changes to go out early next week with 20.0.2." -Alec Dawson. So they will already go live next week.
That's what they want YOU to believe.
I love you Dreadsteed, I will never disenchant you!
And yet again we see a remarkable willingness to translate personal dislike for a card into complete unjustifiable hyperbole.
Someone made a comment about a Penflinger managing to do 6 to 10 damage as a fireball or pyroblast with "little commitment". This strikes me as . . . well, as a bold-faced lie . . . given that a pyroblast is one card that costs ten mana, and a Pen Flinger doing ten damage is ten mana of casting pen flingers plus ten spells plus whatever mana those spells cost. Seems like that's quite a commitment, as even with the ultimate corner case where a Liadrin gets you ten free librams, you're still looking at a bare minimum of two full turns of investment.
Not for me to tell you what you do or don't like, but that doesn't entitle you to your own version of truth.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
ever heard or a libram, coin, preparation etc?
Did you even read my post? I literally addressed the cheapest possible way to get 10 damage out of a flinger. Sorry the racism bullshit got erased, but at least try to have a valid critique.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Not in one turn, but over the course of the game, the same pen flinger can deal 10 damage for sure. So it is way better then pyroblast. So you are just being perky
I’m hoping they hit warlock in some way otherwise we’re just gonna end up with a meta of control locks and hyper aggro with no middle ground.
I'm going to assume you're a good faith poster here and just say this is why forums are such annoyances. I was responding to a specific claim that made a very false comment about being able to get the same damage out of flinger as out of Pyroblast or Fireball with very little commitment. Multiple turns, double digits worth of other cards, and at least equal mana (and then only at the extreme of corner cases; usually far more mana), is the opposite of "very little" commitment.
3nnui has proven to be a bad faith poster. If I had more discipline I wouldn't have even responded to him, but he has me annoyed by calling me a racist with no foundation earlier. But no, I'm not being "perky". I'm explaining a false claim is false.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Sorry to say it but Pen Flinger is not a problem card.
This stupid 4sshole card counters the hunter secret (the destroy one random uppon any spell) so hard... Secret proc for nothing
The amount of commitment doesnt matter if the payoff is broken. Pen flinger is an incredible strong tool from turn 1 to turn 10. it provides control on board and pressure going face. it can be the main threat each and every single turn in rog or pala. added up a pen flinger can very well do more than 10 dmg in a game. That dmg comes by filling out your curve and providing the single ping dmg whereever its needed without any being excess. we dont need to nitpick if a pen flinger is the exact same as a pyro or fireball. obviously it isnt but that doesnt change the fact that the pen flinger provides that dmg spread over the entire game anytime you need it. the flexibility and the added up value you can generate with a single 1 mana card is just beyond broken in decks like rogue and pala atm.
The goal of a new expansion - and certainly a new year - should be to have a very different meta than what existed previously.
Penflinger is a major problem if you want to meet this goal. It's so good it's in too many decks. I'm just sick of it. The game doesn't feel too different now, with the exception of Lunacy Mage, which is just awful.
This card, the Watchtowers, and Deck of Lunacy have to be hit hard.
I am not playing ranked until it is fixed. This is the worst meta ever - 80% mages and Paladin.
Dude, in a deck like Libram Paladin, which reduces the cost of spells by AT LEAST 3 (best scenario can go as big and crazy as 6 + 1 with a hit of that new legendary)... Do you think that playing a bunch of 0 mana spells and using a 1 mana minion before every spell is commitment? Pen Flinger in that deck doesn't require a lot of commitment. It's there for filling your curve and making your plays more efficient...
Yes, you paid 6 or 10 mana for them (I know, I've read the card and saw that it costs 1). Let me ask you a simple question. What is better, paying 10 mana for playing ONE card in ONE turn for 10 damage... Or paying 10 mana spread in multiple turns for buffing many minions, clearing the board and summoning multiple 8/8 while healing for 8 AND also doing 10 damage?
Answer that question, and you'll understand my point.
If you can't understand that, I won't bother answering anything you write after this.
Yes, I'm fully aware pen flinger ten times plus ten buffs is USUALLY better than one pyroblast. That in no way addresses the commitment topic. At a minimum, you're playing Liadrin plus a full subsequent turn of flingers, so if you're just going to stop the analysis at "what's better?" the answer, as usual, is "it depends". If your opponent is at 20 life, pyroblast is much better, since you can get the 10 damage done in one turn and have mana free to play another pyro or other burn cards on the second turn, whereas you'd still be investing mana into the original ten damage with the flinger scenario.
So, I answered your question because you seemed to think it relevant. No idea why you positioned it as a critique of my comment, but the two have nothing to do with each other. I didn't introduce the concept of "commitment" to this argument, I just observed the original point was 100% incorrect, because it is.
Your completely different point is correct. Except in the scenarios when it isn't, as illustrated above.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
You calling someone else a bad faith poster is hilarious. I guess you still have never heard of a libram.
I addressed both individual librams and full hands of librams from liadrin. Read the post
Furthermore, I engage with just about everyone assuming they are posting in earnest until they conclusively prove otherwise, so regardless of what you think of me or my points, "bad faith" has a meaning, and it doesn't apply to me.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.