I love a good control deck as much as anyone, but this deck too powerful for how little strategy it requires. Tons of removable, stupid amounts of heal, tons of draw, Tickatus, Jaraaxus...this deck is far too oppressive and seems WAAAAAAY more problematic than spell mage at the moment. It’s suffocating that entire end of the deck spectrum so no other control deck or other slower deck can exist.
Warlock really isn’t that bad. Sure it can be frustrating to play against. Disruption is always frustrating to play against. There’s a reason people dislike playing against Blue in MTG.
Disruption is Warlocks thing.
Control warlock is (by hsreplays stats) about 51% win rate, that’s bottom of tier 2. Sure you have to take any stats with a pinch of salt. But I hardly see any Control warlock compared to say Mage and Paladin at the moment. Aggro eats if for breakfast.
Don’t equate frustrating to play against and over powered. They are not the same thing.
Warlock removal and disruption is the whole point of the archetype and is supposed to be like that. Seriously, if your deck can't win if it loses one or two key cards then the problem is your deck, not the opponent.
There's an old proverb about eggs and baskets that applies quite nicely here...
Warlock removal and disruption is the whole point of the archetype and is supposed to be like that. Seriously, if your deck can't win if it loses one or two key cards then the problem is your deck, not the opponent.
There's an old proverb about eggs and baskets that applies quite nicely here...
You can literally make that argument for any deck at all, "Oh the RNG of Deck of Lunacy is the whole point of the archetype" the card is put in the deck for a reason so why you complaining when the reason its there actually works right?, People are'nt putting it in their decks for the lols of it they have build a deck purely around Deck of Lunacy, They avoid 5 drop spells because 8 drop spells are dreadful, They put in 3-4 7 drop spells because they want Nagrand Slam, They stack 3 and 4 drop spells because they give 6 and 7 drop spells which are largely mass card draw and mass AoE spells, The whole point of that archetype is built to get the most out of Deck of Lunacy, Its supposed to be like that.
Pen Flinger, Rogue and Paladin build their decks around that card, That is the pure archetype of that deck to take advantage of Pen Flinger as much as possible, Why people complaining about it, Its supposed to be like that.
You can literally make the "Its the archetype its supposed to be like that" for literally any deck in the game because they are built to a archetype so obviously that is how the deck is supposed to play that does'nt mean its not a problem, Look back at previous decks that have been dominant in the past, Machine gun priest, Quest rogue, All of them have had the archetype they will build to and all of them did what they were supposed to be doing the problem was they did it way too good and that is the same as Tickatus, It does what it does but it does it to a level that no other deck can even consider playing a control archetype.
Warlock removal and disruption is the whole point of the archetype and is supposed to be like that. Seriously, if your deck can't win if it loses one or two key cards then the problem is your deck, not the opponent.
There's an old proverb about eggs and baskets that applies quite nicely here...
You can literally make that argument for any deck at all, "Oh the RNG of Deck of Lunacy is the whole point of the archetype" the card is put in the deck for a reason so why you complaining when the reason its there actually works right?, People are'nt putting it in their decks for the lols of it they have build a deck purely around Deck of Lunacy, They avoid 5 drop spells because 8 drop spells are dreadful, They put in 3-4 7 drop spells because they want Nagrand Slam, They stack 3 and 4 drop spells because they give 6 and 7 drop spells which are largely mass card draw and mass AoE spells, The whole point of that archetype is built to get the most out of Deck of Lunacy, Its supposed to be like that.
Pen Flinger, Rogue and Paladin build their decks around that card, That is the pure archetype of that deck to take advantage of Pen Flinger as much as possible, Why people complaining about it, Its supposed to be like that.
You can literally make the "Its the archetype its supposed to be like that" for literally any deck in the game because they are built to a archetype so obviously that is how the deck is supposed to play that does'nt mean its not a problem, Look back at previous decks that have been dominant in the past, Machine gun priest, Quest rogue, All of them have had the archetype they will build to and all of them did what they were supposed to be doing the problem was they did it way too good and that is the same as Tickatus, It does what it does but it does it to a level that no other deck can even consider playing a control archetype.
True but the difference is power level. No minion mage has a much higher win rate and is played at 20+% at all levels compared to max 10% for control Warlock.
I would argue that control decks aren’t being played not because of Warlock which is a hard counter of course but because the other control decks aren’t good enough to counter mage and paladin.
True that when those get nerfed warlock could rise and ruin control decks but I believe aggro will keep warlock in check. We shall see.
The whole soul fragment package is overstatted, imo. It essentially makes the hero power have no drawback over the course of a game and loads up for a massive clear/board swing turn with Malicia. I think the deck would be fairer if that effect actually cost you mana or stats. Would consider these changes:
The whole soul fragment package is overstatted, imo. It essentially makes the hero power have no drawback over the course of a game and loads up for a massive clear/board swing turn with Malicia. I think the deck would be fairer if that effect actually cost you mana or stats. Would consider these changes:
I see a lot of people just quoting Win rates for any deck they don't want to get nerfed, and it's honestly a stupid argument that is overdone at this point. A deck can have a terrible Win rate but still be one of rge most toxic decks ever. Honestly, tickatus isn't even needed. I play warlock without tickatus and it's still a really toxic deck with jaraxus. It is just a toxic card that requires no setup other than just playing a card that cost more and poof, your opponent can't play the cards they put in their deck.
I see a lot of people just quoting Win rates for any deck they don't want to get nerfed, and it's honestly a stupid argument that is overdone at this point. A deck can have a terrible Win rate but still be one of rge most toxic decks ever. Honestly, tickatus isn't even needed. I play warlock without tickatus and it's still a really toxic deck with jaraxus. It is just a toxic card that requires no setup other than just playing a card that cost more and poof, your opponent can't play the cards they put in their deck.
While I agree win rate should not be the only reason to nerf. Thinks like play rate should be taken in to some consideration. But just because a deck annoys you is not a good reason to nerf it. As been pointed out the whole point of Tickatus and warlock is the disruption at the moment. If that annoys you ok fine, doesn’t mean it should be nerfed.
I don't think Warlock requires nerfs atm, but I think the way Tickatus hard counteres C'Thun, the Shattered is incredibly unfair. I think they should add an unwritten rule, so that the C'thun pieces couldn't be destroyed by Tickatus. It just makes C'Thun, the Shattered very inconsistent and destroys the point of running him in your deck.
I see a lot of people just quoting Win rates for any deck they don't want to get nerfed, and it's honestly a stupid argument that is overdone at this point. A deck can have a terrible Win rate but still be one of rge most toxic decks ever. Honestly, tickatus isn't even needed. I play warlock without tickatus and it's still a really toxic deck with jaraxus. It is just a toxic card that requires no setup other than just playing a card that cost more and poof, your opponent can't play the cards they put in their deck.
While I agree win rate should not be the only reason to nerf. Thinks like play rate should be taken in to some consideration. But just because a deck annoys you is not a good reason to nerf it. As been pointed out the whole point of Tickatus and warlock is the disruption at the moment. If that annoys you ok fine, doesn’t mean it should be nerfed.
It's not just that it's annoying, but it's downright bullshit and toxic. I could live with it if it burned 3 cards but you can literally burn 10 cards easily in a card game with a 30 card maximum. For a control deck that destroys any and every other control deck? sorry but that's unfun and toxic. It forces classes to play aggro when they literally have no way to aggro. So it effectively counters whole other classes with one card.
Warlock removal and disruption is the whole point of the archetype and is supposed to be like that. Seriously, if your deck can't win if it loses one or two key cards then the problem is your deck, not the opponent.
Does Warlock really need Soul Shear AND Drain Soul AND the new legendary?
I'd like to play a 2 drop against Warlock again someday.
Control warlock is (by hsreplays stats) about 51% win rate, that’s bottom of tier 2. Sure you have to take any stats with a pinch of salt. But I hardly see any Control warlock compared to say Mage and Paladin at the moment. Aggro eats if for breakfast.
Most Warlock Decks are not build to win against aggro atm. Everybody tries to beat Mage and Paladin. If these Decks are in check, people will build Warlock different only to beat aggro, because the Control Matchups are an easy win.
Control lock doesn’t counter spell mage, it’s the opposite, spell mage is favored. If spell mage disappears, which it will after lunacy is nerfed because it’ll be a completely different deck, warlock is going to roflstomp every thing that isn’t rogue or Paladin. It’s not about the disrupt of Tickatus, it’s about the suffocating nature of the deck itself.
that aside warlocks class identity was never disrupt, it was about power at a cost. This disrupt mechanic is relatively new to the class, especially in a consistently playable manor.
I love a good control deck as much as anyone, but this deck too powerful for how little strategy it requires. Tons of removable, stupid amounts of heal, tons of draw, Tickatus, Jaraaxus...this deck is far too oppressive and seems WAAAAAAY more problematic than spell mage at the moment. It’s suffocating that entire end of the deck spectrum so no other control deck or other slower deck can exist.
Warlock really isn’t that bad. Sure it can be frustrating to play against. Disruption is always frustrating to play against. There’s a reason people dislike playing against Blue in MTG.
Disruption is Warlocks thing.
Control warlock is (by hsreplays stats) about 51% win rate, that’s bottom of tier 2. Sure you have to take any stats with a pinch of salt. But I hardly see any Control warlock compared to say Mage and Paladin at the moment. Aggro eats if for breakfast.
Don’t equate frustrating to play against and over powered. They are not the same thing.
The problem is not the overall win rate, but the win rate against any slow / control deck.
This is the real problem with warlock atm, no counter to mage spell can exist as long as this not nerfed
I'm afraid that after the Mage nerf, warlock will raise to be an even more oppressive problem, hope I'm wrong tho
And what counter to mage would emerge if warlock is nerfed? Out of control decks warlock has one of if not the best winrate against spell mage.
Yes, mage is frustrating because full randomness strategy, but warlock is worse.
Warlock removal and disruption is the whole point of the archetype and is supposed to be like that.
Seriously, if your deck can't win if it loses one or two key cards then the problem is your deck, not the opponent.
There's an old proverb about eggs and baskets that applies quite nicely here...
You can literally make that argument for any deck at all, "Oh the RNG of Deck of Lunacy is the whole point of the archetype" the card is put in the deck for a reason so why you complaining when the reason its there actually works right?, People are'nt putting it in their decks for the lols of it they have build a deck purely around Deck of Lunacy, They avoid 5 drop spells because 8 drop spells are dreadful, They put in 3-4 7 drop spells because they want Nagrand Slam, They stack 3 and 4 drop spells because they give 6 and 7 drop spells which are largely mass card draw and mass AoE spells, The whole point of that archetype is built to get the most out of Deck of Lunacy, Its supposed to be like that.
Pen Flinger, Rogue and Paladin build their decks around that card, That is the pure archetype of that deck to take advantage of Pen Flinger as much as possible, Why people complaining about it, Its supposed to be like that.
You can literally make the "Its the archetype its supposed to be like that" for literally any deck in the game because they are built to a archetype so obviously that is how the deck is supposed to play that does'nt mean its not a problem, Look back at previous decks that have been dominant in the past, Machine gun priest, Quest rogue, All of them have had the archetype they will build to and all of them did what they were supposed to be doing the problem was they did it way too good and that is the same as Tickatus, It does what it does but it does it to a level that no other deck can even consider playing a control archetype.
True but the difference is power level. No minion mage has a much higher win rate and is played at 20+% at all levels compared to max 10% for control Warlock.
I would argue that control decks aren’t being played not because of Warlock which is a hard counter of course but because the other control decks aren’t good enough to counter mage and paladin.
True that when those get nerfed warlock could rise and ruin control decks but I believe aggro will keep warlock in check. We shall see.
The whole soul fragment package is overstatted, imo. It essentially makes the hero power have no drawback over the course of a game and loads up for a massive clear/board swing turn with Malicia. I think the deck would be fairer if that effect actually cost you mana or stats. Would consider these changes:
Spirit Jailer --> 1/2
Soul Shear --> 2 damage
School Spirits --> 4 mana
So nerf demon Hunter as well even more to solve warlock. Yep good idea ! /end sarcasm
I see a lot of people just quoting Win rates for any deck they don't want to get nerfed, and it's honestly a stupid argument that is overdone at this point. A deck can have a terrible Win rate but still be one of rge most toxic decks ever. Honestly, tickatus isn't even needed. I play warlock without tickatus and it's still a really toxic deck with jaraxus. It is just a toxic card that requires no setup other than just playing a card that cost more and poof, your opponent can't play the cards they put in their deck.
While I agree win rate should not be the only reason to nerf. Thinks like play rate should be taken in to some consideration. But just because a deck annoys you is not a good reason to nerf it. As been pointed out the whole point of Tickatus and warlock is the disruption at the moment. If that annoys you ok fine, doesn’t mean it should be nerfed.
I don't think Warlock requires nerfs atm, but I think the way Tickatus hard counteres C'Thun, the Shattered is incredibly unfair. I think they should add an unwritten rule, so that the C'thun pieces couldn't be destroyed by Tickatus. It just makes C'Thun, the Shattered very inconsistent and destroys the point of running him in your deck.
It's not just that it's annoying, but it's downright bullshit and toxic. I could live with it if it burned 3 cards but you can literally burn 10 cards easily in a card game with a 30 card maximum. For a control deck that destroys any and every other control deck? sorry but that's unfun and toxic. It forces classes to play aggro when they literally have no way to aggro. So it effectively counters whole other classes with one card.
Does Warlock really need Soul Shear AND Drain Soul AND the new legendary?
I'd like to play a 2 drop against Warlock again someday.
Most Warlock Decks are not build to win against aggro atm. Everybody tries to beat Mage and Paladin. If these Decks are in check, people will build Warlock different only to beat aggro, because the Control Matchups are an easy win.
It's another deck that forces you into non-interactive-damage-from-hand-face-rush-burst-dmg OR you are busted
It will replace deck of lunacy after nerfs. You either are playing a deck capable of killing him at turn 6 or you instalose to ONE card
Control lock doesn’t counter spell mage, it’s the opposite, spell mage is favored. If spell mage disappears, which it will after lunacy is nerfed because it’ll be a completely different deck, warlock is going to roflstomp every thing that isn’t rogue or Paladin. It’s not about the disrupt of Tickatus, it’s about the suffocating nature of the deck itself.
that aside warlocks class identity was never disrupt, it was about power at a cost. This disrupt mechanic is relatively new to the class, especially in a consistently playable manor.