Amazing idea honestly I can see the hours I would spend in the deck builder trying to figure out how many minions I want in the deck, but not the kind of nerf we can expect, they try to not change how the cards works when they make nerfs.
Its really only a problem in standard. So easy fix, just make it be any random spell (wild included). Cuts down on the high roll / just get good cards. It goes back to its intended power level.
I had a mage complete his C'thun on turn 7 today with only 6 cards left in his deck hehe, not sure the card is problematic but it sure is annoying when they get 3 of them in the early game
Just have it transform into random spells (they keep their cost). Keeps the meme dream alive while making it too inconsistent to be a Kelesth-like ladder strategy.
Even if DoL is nerfed, normal non minion spell mage is pretty busted since of how strong font and five drops are. It will still smash everything except aggro. They really need to tone down paladin so that aggro and mid range is viable to punish mage. DoL needs to be toned down too of course.
To indicate a scenario how no minion mage can instantly win the game without DoL, imagine incanters flow into apexis into any number of immediately game winning 5 drops like a 7/8 with taunt or stealth 5/5 that draws them two cards or a taunt which summons another minion upon dying. Incanters with apexis outright wins the game on turn 4 without DoL anyway. However, if DoL is nerfed, control strategies will become a lot more viable. Aside from apexis just drawing from a 5 mana pool which is way too strong, font costing 1 mana and usually 0 mana is pretty broken. You get three random cards for basically free. Refreshing gives you two cards zero cost, if not gain mana. The deck just feels really busted. Paladin is more busted, but it's all kind of boring and so no one is playing it.
Just have it transform into random spells (they keep their cost). Keeps the meme dream alive while making it too inconsistent to be a Kelesth-like ladder strategy.
this
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"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
This card saw zero play before this expansion for a reason. I feel like nerfing it really just serves no purpose. It’s a card that will eventually again see no play due to lack of consistency. Meanwhile you have busted cards like Tickatus, the Paladin sword that plays secrets, pen flinger, oh my yogg, among others that will continue to be busted if they aren’t smacked down. If they’re gonna devote resources to nerfs they should focus on things that are busted by design and not things that are above average due to circumstance.
outside of spell mage, the class is dumpster tier I think. And despite claims it’s a good deck without lunacy, I’m not so sure. Mage has no healing. They lost a good chunk of stall power in the rotation, and on top of that control lock is a thing which craps on every slow deck which is what spell mage is without lunacy.
They lost a good chunk of stall power in the rotation, and on top of that control lock is a thing which craps on every slow deck which is what spell mage is without lunacy.
Eh, they lost Blizzard. But Flurry really makes up for it. Like really, if you wanna play some sort of freeze stall mage, it's better now than it was before the rotation because everything's cheaper and can actually kill things.
They lost a good chunk of stall power in the rotation, and on top of that control lock is a thing which craps on every slow deck which is what spell mage is without lunacy.
Eh, they lost Blizzard. But Flurry really makes up for it. Like really, if you wanna play some sort of freeze stall mage, it's better now than it was before the rotation because everything's cheaper and can actually kill things.
They lost blizzard, frost nova, and frost bolt. Flurry is okay in some situations but with wide boards it’s trash because those come early and you have to wait until turn 10 to freeze just 3 minions. The new mage legendary can only do so much. To top it off they only have 1 card that freezes face anymore and that costs 8 mana. The one nice boost was flame strike getting buffed to 5 damage. There’s a reason lunacy mage is the go to mage deck, that’s because everything else sucks.
I had a mage complete his C'thun on turn 7 today with only 6 cards left in his deck hehe, not sure the card is problematic but it sure is annoying when they get 3 of them in the early game
I think it is problematic. The Mouzaki combo decks in Wild is pretty disgusting as well, I never thought 2 Frostbolts would kill me from 30 health, but that bad boy does it before 10 mana!
I had a mage complete his C'thun on turn 7 today with only 6 cards left in his deck hehe, not sure the card is problematic but it sure is annoying when they get 3 of them in the early game
I think it is problematic. The Mouzaki combo decks in Wild is pretty disgusting as well, I never thought 2 Frostbolts would kill me from 30 health, but that bad boy does it before 10 mana!
I hate that Mouzaki was decent for a short time and then fell out favor. Neat card design but he doesn’t have the tools to exist in standard. Really none of the existing mage legendaries stand out as strong cards it seems.
I had a mage complete his C'thun on turn 7 today with only 6 cards left in his deck hehe, not sure the card is problematic but it sure is annoying when they get 3 of them in the early game
I think it is problematic. The Mouzaki combo decks in Wild is pretty disgusting as well, I never thought 2 Frostbolts would kill me from 30 health, but that bad boy does it before 10 mana!
I hate that Mouzaki was decent for a short time and then fell out favor. Neat card design but he doesn’t have the tools to exist in standard. Really none of the existing mage legendaries stand out as strong cards it seems.
It's a really awful card design. People shouldn't be dying on turn 7. OTK DH is very bad for the game too. Those types of decks where they do nothing but execute a game plan where you can't do anything but watch them kill you is not fun. It doesn't matter if it only works 45% of the time. It's basically a prolonged coin flip in your favour but there isn't really any big decisions going on.
I think the following decks are good design:
1. Miracle rogue. You draw a lot, play lots of cards, so lots of decisions to be made.
2. Midrange hunter. These decks since the introduction of buffing things in your deck and drawing them have always been interesting (started with zixor). The current beast hunter in standard isn't a great deck, but it's ok now they fixed mankirk. It is an interesting deck though and fun to play because you have to keep up the tempo and push your game plan forward while ensuring you are buffing the right things in your deck and pulling the right stuff out of your deck. Some may argue it's solitare in that sense, but it also has other decisions in relation to your discover effects and what you need to choose, as well as which minions to play and when. There are also decisions about when to go wide and when to hold back your tempo in case of clears.
3. Control decks like priest which execute long game plans. These decks are very difficult to play, as evidenced by priest in standard right now mostly having 40% - 45% win rates (or worse) yet some players are piloting those same decks to top 10 legend. Because it's complex with lots of decisions, it's an interesting and deep deck to play.
4. Aggro decks that fight for board and contain many nuanced decision making including down to minion placement. This is the traditional zoolock deck.
What is bad design is:
1. OTK decks where they just play solitaire.
2. Decks that kill you on turn 4 or 5 consistently enough where there isn't much you can do.
3. Tempo based decks that have no decision making and you are just playing curvestone. In these decks, there is usually only one clear play every turn and it is obvious. Obviously anyone can make a deck like this, but it shouldn't be a tier 1 deck.
4. A deck that is intended to be strong and is guaranteed to win against an entire class. An example of this in the past was freeze mage vs warrior. An example in the present is control warlock vs priest. It's ok if you have one archetype, especially a tier 3 or 4 archtype, that can have a near lock against another archetype of another class. It's not ok if you have a high tier 2 or tier 1 deck that is almost certainly guaranteed to win vs an entire class regardless of the archetype that class plays.
I had a mage complete his C'thun on turn 7 today with only 6 cards left in his deck hehe, not sure the card is problematic but it sure is annoying when they get 3 of them in the early game
I think it is problematic. The Mouzaki combo decks in Wild is pretty disgusting as well, I never thought 2 Frostbolts would kill me from 30 health, but that bad boy does it before 10 mana!
Mozaki is too inconsistent. Flamewaker can do the same on t5...
This card saw zero play before this expansion for a reason. I feel like nerfing it really just serves no purpose. It’s a card that will eventually again see no play due to lack of consistency. Meanwhile you have busted cards like Tickatus, the Paladin sword that plays secrets, pen flinger, oh my yogg, among others that will continue to be busted if they aren’t smacked down. If they’re gonna devote resources to nerfs they should focus on things that are busted by design and not things that are above average due to circumstance.
outside of spell mage, the class is dumpster tier I think. And despite claims it’s a good deck without lunacy, I’m not so sure. Mage has no healing. They lost a good chunk of stall power in the rotation, and on top of that control lock is a thing which craps on every slow deck which is what spell mage is without lunacy.
Its not a dumpster. Mordresh mage is a thing, both minion based and more classical one. Tempo mage was also taking high legend rank.
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Make it:
For every minion in your deck transform a spell in your deck to one that cost 3 more (keeps original cost).
idk. Thoughts? Seems like it would even things out appropriately.
Amazing idea honestly I can see the hours I would spend in the deck builder trying to figure out how many minions I want in the deck, but not the kind of nerf we can expect, they try to not change how the cards works when they make nerfs.
Its really only a problem in standard. So easy fix, just make it be any random spell (wild included). Cuts down on the high roll / just get good cards. It goes back to its intended power level.
nerf Incanter's Flow
I had a mage complete his C'thun on turn 7 today with only 6 cards left in his deck hehe, not sure the card is problematic but it sure is annoying when they get 3 of them in the early game
Just have it transform into random spells (they keep their cost). Keeps the meme dream alive while making it too inconsistent to be a Kelesth-like ladder strategy.
Even if DoL is nerfed, normal non minion spell mage is pretty busted since of how strong font and five drops are. It will still smash everything except aggro. They really need to tone down paladin so that aggro and mid range is viable to punish mage. DoL needs to be toned down too of course.
To indicate a scenario how no minion mage can instantly win the game without DoL, imagine incanters flow into apexis into any number of immediately game winning 5 drops like a 7/8 with taunt or stealth 5/5 that draws them two cards or a taunt which summons another minion upon dying. Incanters with apexis outright wins the game on turn 4 without DoL anyway. However, if DoL is nerfed, control strategies will become a lot more viable. Aside from apexis just drawing from a 5 mana pool which is way too strong, font costing 1 mana and usually 0 mana is pretty broken. You get three random cards for basically free. Refreshing gives you two cards zero cost, if not gain mana. The deck just feels really busted. Paladin is more busted, but it's all kind of boring and so no one is playing it.
it's a random card, why all that butthurt?
Gladly u're not a dev.
this
"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
This card saw zero play before this expansion for a reason. I feel like nerfing it really just serves no purpose. It’s a card that will eventually again see no play due to lack of consistency. Meanwhile you have busted cards like Tickatus, the Paladin sword that plays secrets, pen flinger, oh my yogg, among others that will continue to be busted if they aren’t smacked down. If they’re gonna devote resources to nerfs they should focus on things that are busted by design and not things that are above average due to circumstance.
outside of spell mage, the class is dumpster tier I think. And despite claims it’s a good deck without lunacy, I’m not so sure. Mage has no healing. They lost a good chunk of stall power in the rotation, and on top of that control lock is a thing which craps on every slow deck which is what spell mage is without lunacy.
...
Because the pool in standard is too small, which make the randomness too consistent and powerful
Eh, they lost Blizzard. But Flurry really makes up for it. Like really, if you wanna play some sort of freeze stall mage, it's better now than it was before the rotation because everything's cheaper and can actually kill things.
They lost blizzard, frost nova, and frost bolt. Flurry is okay in some situations but with wide boards it’s trash because those come early and you have to wait until turn 10 to freeze just 3 minions. The new mage legendary can only do so much. To top it off they only have 1 card that freezes face anymore and that costs 8 mana. The one nice boost was flame strike getting buffed to 5 damage. There’s a reason lunacy mage is the go to mage deck, that’s because everything else sucks.
I think it is problematic. The Mouzaki combo decks in Wild is pretty disgusting as well, I never thought 2 Frostbolts would kill me from 30 health, but that bad boy does it before 10 mana!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I hate that Mouzaki was decent for a short time and then fell out favor. Neat card design but he doesn’t have the tools to exist in standard. Really none of the existing mage legendaries stand out as strong cards it seems.
It's a really awful card design. People shouldn't be dying on turn 7. OTK DH is very bad for the game too. Those types of decks where they do nothing but execute a game plan where you can't do anything but watch them kill you is not fun. It doesn't matter if it only works 45% of the time. It's basically a prolonged coin flip in your favour but there isn't really any big decisions going on.
I think the following decks are good design:
1. Miracle rogue. You draw a lot, play lots of cards, so lots of decisions to be made.
2. Midrange hunter. These decks since the introduction of buffing things in your deck and drawing them have always been interesting (started with zixor). The current beast hunter in standard isn't a great deck, but it's ok now they fixed mankirk. It is an interesting deck though and fun to play because you have to keep up the tempo and push your game plan forward while ensuring you are buffing the right things in your deck and pulling the right stuff out of your deck. Some may argue it's solitare in that sense, but it also has other decisions in relation to your discover effects and what you need to choose, as well as which minions to play and when. There are also decisions about when to go wide and when to hold back your tempo in case of clears.
3. Control decks like priest which execute long game plans. These decks are very difficult to play, as evidenced by priest in standard right now mostly having 40% - 45% win rates (or worse) yet some players are piloting those same decks to top 10 legend. Because it's complex with lots of decisions, it's an interesting and deep deck to play.
4. Aggro decks that fight for board and contain many nuanced decision making including down to minion placement. This is the traditional zoolock deck.
What is bad design is:
1. OTK decks where they just play solitaire.
2. Decks that kill you on turn 4 or 5 consistently enough where there isn't much you can do.
3. Tempo based decks that have no decision making and you are just playing curvestone. In these decks, there is usually only one clear play every turn and it is obvious. Obviously anyone can make a deck like this, but it shouldn't be a tier 1 deck.
4. A deck that is intended to be strong and is guaranteed to win against an entire class. An example of this in the past was freeze mage vs warrior. An example in the present is control warlock vs priest. It's ok if you have one archetype, especially a tier 3 or 4 archtype, that can have a near lock against another archetype of another class. It's not ok if you have a high tier 2 or tier 1 deck that is almost certainly guaranteed to win vs an entire class regardless of the archetype that class plays.
Mozaki is too inconsistent. Flamewaker can do the same on t5...
Its not a dumpster. Mordresh mage is a thing, both minion based and more classical one. Tempo mage was also taking high legend rank.