This entire conversation is stupid because if they nerf every card that everyone is whining about there will automatically be a new batch of cards for everyone to want nerfed.
This entire conversation is stupid because if they nerf every card that everyone is whining about there will automatically be a new batch of cards for everyone to want nerfed.
Man-up and grow a set.
Excuse me, but this is just not right:
And thats counting mirror matches so their winrate is even higher.
Yes! Let's add and remove racial tags based not on the in-universe logic but for balance! I know that some players don't care about names\art\lore but... some do.
Paladin is beyond everything else in the game right now. They need multiple nerfs to multiple cards.
Watchposts have made for the most annoying awful gameplay experience I've ever encountered. Playing since beta. I'm not saying they're the most OP thing I've ever seen. But hands down the most ANNOYING thing I've ever seen. Just a terrible idea. Devs never shouldve made these cards.
Deck of Lunacy. Nuff said.
Pen Flinger...come on...
I'm not having any fun whatsover playing on Ladder since the expansion dropped. Sometimes wonder why I keep having hope that the Devs will put out a good product again, but I think their brains are too small. Some people aren't meant for the jobs they have in life.
I don't play much Standard, I just watch it on YouTube/Twitch. In Wild I recently picked up Even Paladin, which has been pretty good at dealing with Secret Mages and Spell Mages, haven't seen a single Secret Paly.
I do think that Refreshing Spring Water is too strong. It's a cool design with funny suggestive art, but in my opinion it's far too efficient. I'd keep it at the same mana cost, but reduce the mana restoration to (1) instead of (2) so it can't really be "free"
Deck of Lunacy as a deck archetype is fully dependent on drawing the aforementioned card. With the pretty strong amount of draw Mage has access to it isn't enough of a drawback that it's legendary. If it were me, I'd change the text to say "change them into random spells that cost (2) more" tentatively. If that still proves to be too strong, I'd set it down to (1) or change the cost of the spell, but I don't like taking that approach to most cards.
Avenge isn't really that strong. A 1 mana 3/2 statline exists in other cards, and this one can only come up if you trade into something. When it comes to secrets, knowing what to play around and how is key.
Librams perhaps might need some adjustment, but I'd probably aim it at their support cards. Libram of Wisdom is just an Explorer's Hat with the Libram name - so it's not that strong on its own. I think if we put Aldor Attendant back to the 2 mana 2/3 zone, it would delay their early game a bit, which would be nice.
Oh yeah - Honestly I'd say Pen Flinger has a design problem. What the card is supposed to do is inherently insanely hard to interact with in a meaningful way; making it only able to target minions won't change the fact that it's still going to be an insane value tool that just clears boards now. Making it cost more mana is a terrible "this card basically ceases to exist" change, which in my opinion is just as bad as making the card this crazy in the first place. Pen Flinger needs a design rehaul.
However I'd say it's too early to definitively say anything needs to be nerfed. Once people being adapting (like we're supposed to) to what's good, things'll change. Give it another two weeks and if things are the same I'd say do something about it.
EDITS: various punctuation and using the wrong Libram
I guess this one doesn't need any explanation. Mage has at the moment the highest draw potential ever. THEY DON'T NEED THIS OP CARD
Are you saying mage has the best draw of all the classes right now or that mages draw now is the best it's ever been? On both accounts you're wrong, druid, DH, warlock and even warrior can burn through their decks very quickly right now. And mages draw was at its best when they had Aluneth.
In this new setting, this card is WAAAAAAY too busted.
What? Avenge is not what makes secret paladin good right now, it's certainly a very good for a paladin secret but not in desperate need of a nerf.
For me the strongest/most oppressive cards right now are:
Deck of Lunacy this became way to consistent after the rotation and core set and meme card that become top tier are often sent to the chopping blocks.
Tickatus Another meme card that has made its way into an incredibly powerful deck, Warlock already has the best control tools right now, so throwing tickatus in there as well just blows every other control deck away. Also pretty terrible to play against since there's no real counter to it.
Pen Flinger So much damage/value from this 1 card.
Are you serious about spring water? Please, who has a better draw spell than draw 2 cards for 0 mana? This plus cram session and arcane intellect and Mages are plowing through their decks in no time.
I agree on Warlock, but not sure it’s just Tickatus. Even without Tickatus, the deck gets so many recycled cards, especially cascading death, that allow them to wipe opposing boards over and over and then outlast by putting “prime” minions into their own deck. Tickatus is just the icing on the corrupt package’s cake.
I agree, Avenge is not a problem. It’s the weapon that sprays secrets everywhere. And Yogg is way too strong for a 1-drop.
Pen flinger is just annoying. It’s super fun to sit there while your opponent takes every turn to the rope while killing you with a thousand paper cuts.
Paladin is beyond everything else in the game right now. They need multiple nerfs to multiple cards.
Watchposts have made for the most annoying awful gameplay experience I've ever encountered. Playing since beta. I'm not saying they're the most OP thing I've ever seen. But hands down the most ANNOYING thing I've ever seen. Just a terrible idea. Devs never shouldve made these cards.
Deck of Lunacy. Nuff said.
Pen Flinger...come on...
I'm not having any fun whatsover playing on Ladder since the expansion dropped. Sometimes wonder why I keep having hope that the Devs will put out a good product again, but I think their brains are too small. Some people aren't meant for the jobs they have in life.
Just no need at all to get so daft and personal. It literally adds nothing to any points you're making other than making you look like an idiot. Nobody with a good point, who is capable of articulating that (or those) needs to have these bizarre meltdowns.
I have zero sympathy for you having no fun, you don't sound like someone who deserves it.
Ah but because it's the Internet you can release your inner big boy warrior, very cool of you, you're clearly very clever and brave.
Nerfing Sword of the Fallen to 3 mana wouldn't be wise imo. It would mess up the mana curve to a point that I think it would be more or less unplayable then. Taking one durability off would be better I think. Then you basically pay for the two secrets you get, get a 1/2 weapon and 2 "draws" on top for free. Sounds still very good, but not as broken. And you could still curve out nicely with Northwatch Commander or Crossroads Gossiper as a follow up.
Paladin is beyond everything else in the game right now. They need multiple nerfs to multiple cards.
Watchposts have made for the most annoying awful gameplay experience I've ever encountered. Playing since beta. I'm not saying they're the most OP thing I've ever seen. But hands down the most ANNOYING thing I've ever seen. Just a terrible idea. Devs never shouldve made these cards.
Deck of Lunacy. Nuff said.
Pen Flinger...come on...
I'm not having any fun whatsover playing on Ladder since the expansion dropped. Sometimes wonder why I keep having hope that the Devs will put out a good product again, but I think their brains are too small. Some people aren't meant for the jobs they have in life.
Just no need at all to get so daft and personal. It literally adds nothing to any points you're making other than making you look like an idiot. Nobody with a good point, who is capable of articulating that (or those) needs to have these bizarre meltdowns.
I have zero sympathy for you having no fun, you don't sound like someone who deserves it.
Ah but because it's the Internet you can release your inner big boy warrior, very cool of you, you're clearly very clever and brave.
Completely agree with you here until you have just contradicted yourself and done the the exact same thing you criticized him for...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I understand that if any more words come pouring out your c**t mouth, I’m gonna have to eat every fu**ing chicken in this room.”
Mage is clearly the problem here, deck of lunacy and refreshing spring water are broken. This is not up for debate. Pen flinger is poorly designed and needs a rework. One trigger per turn for example. But the real problem here is mage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I understand that if any more words come pouring out your c**t mouth, I’m gonna have to eat every fu**ing chicken in this room.”
Yes! Let's add and remove racial tags based not on the in-universe logic but for balance! I know that some players don't care about names\art\lore but... some do.
Paladin is beyond everything else in the game right now. They need multiple nerfs to multiple cards.
Watchposts have made for the most annoying awful gameplay experience I've ever encountered. Playing since beta. I'm not saying they're the most OP thing I've ever seen. But hands down the most ANNOYING thing I've ever seen. Just a terrible idea. Devs never shouldve made these cards.
Deck of Lunacy. Nuff said.
Pen Flinger...come on...
I'm not having any fun whatsover playing on Ladder since the expansion dropped. Sometimes wonder why I keep having hope that the Devs will put out a good product again, but I think their brains are too small. Some people aren't meant for the jobs they have in life.
The watchposts are fine. They're "annoying," but they're available to all classes, they encourage thinking / counterplay, and they're a flavorful part of the expansion. If they nerf the watchposts because people refuse to adopt new strategies, that's a real shame. And considering watch posts aren't even dominating the meta, I'm not sure why they would be nerfed.
Excuse me, but this is just not right:
And thats counting mirror matches so their winrate is even higher.
In case of nerfs they souldn't make those cards unplayable.
Some minor adjustments could be:
- Deck of Lunacy: increase the cost to 3/4 mana
- Tickatus: 7/7 and discard 4 cards instead of 5
- Pen Flinger: it can only target minions
- Sword of the Fallen: increase the cost to 3 mana
A possibility is also do some minor buffs to certain cards of classes with low winrates, like they did with shaman in the past
IMO
Deck of lunacy - 5 mana, I think at 4 it could still be too good.
Tickatus - Discard 3 cards, remove demon tag
Pen Flinger - targets only minions
Sword of the Fallen - 3 Mana
Refreshing springwater - Restores 1 mana instead of 2
Possibly incanters flow to 3 mana, mostly because mage has so much card draw right now and spring water is the way it is....
Yes! Let's add and remove racial tags based not on the in-universe logic but for balance! I know that some players don't care about names\art\lore but... some do.
Are you proposing all of those changes or listing a bunch to take one from?
spring water is fine, put it to 5 mana if u want, lunacy is the real culprit here
Paladin is beyond everything else in the game right now. They need multiple nerfs to multiple cards.
Watchposts have made for the most annoying awful gameplay experience I've ever encountered. Playing since beta. I'm not saying they're the most OP thing I've ever seen. But hands down the most ANNOYING thing I've ever seen. Just a terrible idea. Devs never shouldve made these cards.
Deck of Lunacy. Nuff said.
Pen Flinger...come on...
I'm not having any fun whatsover playing on Ladder since the expansion dropped. Sometimes wonder why I keep having hope that the Devs will put out a good product again, but I think their brains are too small. Some people aren't meant for the jobs they have in life.
I don't play much Standard, I just watch it on YouTube/Twitch.
In Wild I recently picked up Even Paladin, which has been pretty good at dealing with Secret Mages and Spell Mages, haven't seen a single Secret Paly.
I do think that Refreshing Spring Water is too strong. It's a cool design with funny suggestive art, but in my opinion it's far too efficient. I'd keep it at the same mana cost, but reduce the mana restoration to (1) instead of (2) so it can't really be "free"
Deck of Lunacy as a deck archetype is fully dependent on drawing the aforementioned card. With the pretty strong amount of draw Mage has access to it isn't enough of a drawback that it's legendary. If it were me, I'd change the text to say "change them into random spells that cost (2) more" tentatively. If that still proves to be too strong, I'd set it down to (1) or change the cost of the spell, but I don't like taking that approach to most cards.
Avenge isn't really that strong. A 1 mana 3/2 statline exists in other cards, and this one can only come up if you trade into something. When it comes to secrets, knowing what to play around and how is key.
Librams perhaps might need some adjustment, but I'd probably aim it at their support cards. Libram of Wisdom is just an Explorer's Hat with the Libram name - so it's not that strong on its own. I think if we put Aldor Attendant back to the 2 mana 2/3 zone, it would delay their early game a bit, which would be nice.
Oh yeah - Honestly I'd say Pen Flinger has a design problem. What the card is supposed to do is inherently insanely hard to interact with in a meaningful way; making it only able to target minions won't change the fact that it's still going to be an insane value tool that just clears boards now. Making it cost more mana is a terrible "this card basically ceases to exist" change, which in my opinion is just as bad as making the card this crazy in the first place. Pen Flinger needs a design rehaul.
However I'd say it's too early to definitively say anything needs to be nerfed. Once people being adapting (like we're supposed to) to what's good, things'll change. Give it another two weeks and if things are the same I'd say do something about it.
EDITS: various punctuation and using the wrong Libram
please don't bully my son
Are you serious about spring water? Please, who has a better draw spell than draw 2 cards for 0 mana? This plus cram session and arcane intellect and Mages are plowing through their decks in no time.
I agree on Warlock, but not sure it’s just Tickatus. Even without Tickatus, the deck gets so many recycled cards, especially cascading death, that allow them to wipe opposing boards over and over and then outlast by putting “prime” minions into their own deck. Tickatus is just the icing on the corrupt package’s cake.
I agree, Avenge is not a problem. It’s the weapon that sprays secrets everywhere. And Yogg is way too strong for a 1-drop.
Pen flinger is just annoying. It’s super fun to sit there while your opponent takes every turn to the rope while killing you with a thousand paper cuts.
Just no need at all to get so daft and personal. It literally adds nothing to any points you're making other than making you look like an idiot. Nobody with a good point, who is capable of articulating that (or those) needs to have these bizarre meltdowns.
I have zero sympathy for you having no fun, you don't sound like someone who deserves it.
Ah but because it's the Internet you can release your inner big boy warrior, very cool of you, you're clearly very clever and brave.
Nerfing Sword of the Fallen to 3 mana wouldn't be wise imo. It would mess up the mana curve to a point that I think it would be more or less unplayable then. Taking one durability off would be better I think. Then you basically pay for the two secrets you get, get a 1/2 weapon and 2 "draws" on top for free. Sounds still very good, but not as broken. And you could still curve out nicely with Northwatch Commander or Crossroads Gossiper as a follow up.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
Pen Flinger is really an urgent nerf.
Completely agree with you here until you have just contradicted yourself and done the the exact same thing you criticized him for...
“I understand that if any more words come pouring out your c**t mouth, I’m gonna have to eat every fu**ing chicken in this room.”
- Sandor "The Hound" Clegane
Mage is clearly the problem here, deck of lunacy and refreshing spring water are broken. This is not up for debate. Pen flinger is poorly designed and needs a rework. One trigger per turn for example. But the real problem here is mage.
“I understand that if any more words come pouring out your c**t mouth, I’m gonna have to eat every fu**ing chicken in this room.”
- Sandor "The Hound" Clegane
.
uh yes.. its a card game dude.
All, with incanters being in the realm of uncertainty. It would probably be ok if spring water was nerfed.
.
The watchposts are fine. They're "annoying," but they're available to all classes, they encourage thinking / counterplay, and they're a flavorful part of the expansion. If they nerf the watchposts because people refuse to adopt new strategies, that's a real shame. And considering watch posts aren't even dominating the meta, I'm not sure why they would be nerfed.