Currently most people are running him with the 10 cost guy who gives you 0 cost version of anything you corrupted so removing demon tag from him doesn't limit the current meta decks people are running him in. I dare say there could be a couple of people running a felosophy in the meta deck though as a replacement card.
Anyway I am sure a balance patch will come hopefully they address penflinger and tickatus anything else might be a bonus but there my main concern as a player as its not fun to play against either.
These 2 classes represent more than 60% of the diamond ladder right now , meanwhile classes like warrior , priest, shaman, hunter are struggling to have 2% playrate.
Congratulations devs, you broke the game again. First few days of the expansion and the game feels completely unplayable if you are not one of these guys that find "fun" spamming RNG mage to climb easily on the back of a broken deck.
This. And also Tickatus is just ruining any chance of competitive deck building.
You want to have a fun diverse meta. Not a meta where 3 decks are OP and no counters.
This entire conversation is stupid because if they nerf every card that everyone is whining about there will automatically be a new batch of cards for everyone to want nerfed.
I guess this one doesn't need any explanation. Mage has at the moment the highest draw potential ever. THEY DON'T NEED THIS OP CARD
Are you saying mage has the best draw of all the classes right now or that mages draw now is the best it's ever been? On both accounts you're wrong, druid, DH, warlock and even warrior can burn through their decks very quickly right now. And mages draw was at its best when they had Aluneth.
In this new setting, this card is WAAAAAAY too busted.
What? Avenge is not what makes secret paladin good right now, it's certainly a very good for a paladin secret but not in desperate need of a nerf.
For me the strongest/most oppressive cards right now are:
Deck of Lunacy this became way to consistent after the rotation and core set and meme card that become top tier are often sent to the chopping blocks.
Tickatus Another meme card that has made its way into an incredibly powerful deck, Warlock already has the best control tools right now, so throwing tickatus in there as well just blows every other control deck away. Also pretty terrible to play against since there's no real counter to it.
Pen Flinger So much damage/value from this 1 card.
Deck of Lunacy doesn't seem that bad, I havent had any issues with it so far. 58% winrate is decently strong, but spell mage is already strong, in large part thanks to the previously mentioned Spring Water and the amount of value generation mage has rn (Font, Runed Orb, Ring Toss, Apexis Smuggler off Font, Evoke, Reno, etc)
Everyone is mad about Deck of Lunacy and I decided to make the No Minion Spell but without Deck of Lunacy since I don't have the card and the Deck Destroyed every class even aggro pala. I played from bronze to gold with 7/0 w/r . soo... ya I don't think Deck of Lunacy is the problem with this deck .. Or what is blizzard supposed to do nerf every draw card so that mage doesn't cycle as fast ? There is no way.
And this is why I'm glad people who understand the square root of jackshit about statistics don't do nerfs at all.
Deck of lunacy has a mulligan wr% of 66%. SIXTYSIX. People complained about keleseth being problematic for a long time but this card alone wins more games than keleseth shadowstepped, and that's not even hyperbole, this is a card that wins you almost 70% of games when you have it in the mulligan. And it's not like the deck is mediocre or anything like that, it's currently a tier 1 deck and it's that good not because "lolrandem" but because it's actually extremely predictable and powerful. A single card being able to warp the meta like that will get nerfed really quickly.
I don't have any issues with the card myself (played against it a few times in standard but it's unusable in wild so igaf) but to say "no actually the card is not a problem because I don't think so is laughably asinine.
Thanks team 5 once again it’s proof that Iksar and co don’t playtest at all. They don’t care about this product.
Iksar stated, they hire designers, not players. Thats why they got no clue at all, iksar is a former restaurant consultant. DH release and the many nerfs following it, is the best example that they dont playtest. Iksar too busy playing World of Warcraft.
Far be it from me to defend the team (I still have ptsd from the dh launch) but even without considering people like Cora on the team (20+k hs wins and counting), judging by the idiotic opinions of "ze real players™" on display here, maybe it's just as well they don't hire them.
As for the nerf, I expect lunacy to be hammered into the ground hard (4 mana, maybe). Other cards that could be nerfed would be the pala sword and the two most annoying posts (which are growing bothers in wild too).
And I wouldn't be shocked to see jandice nerfed before the next expansion drops considering how good the 5 cost drops are, currently. Needs to be seen how good or otherwise rogues using her will be after the first wave of nerfs though.
Currently most people are running him with the 10 cost guy who gives you 0 cost version of anything you corrupted so removing demon tag from him doesn't limit the current meta decks people are running him in. I dare say there could be a couple of people running a felosophy in the meta deck though as a replacement card.
Anyway I am sure a balance patch will come hopefully they address penflinger and tickatus anything else might be a bonus but there my main concern as a player as its not fun to play against either.
Tikatus is the problem. Its existent stops any control deck from being viable. Guess what beats mage... Priest and Warrior control decks heaving in heals and armor.
The only cards what need nerfing are Deck of Lunacy, Refreshing Spring Water and Sword of the Fallen. Lunacy has a 70% win rate from opening hand and Sword Of The Fallen is at 65% (according to my deck tracker) those are absolutely insane stats - no one should be able to have such a high win rate just from those one cards. Nerf these three cards and you open the meta up to a lot of classes which are basically unplayable at the moment.
Oh My Yogg! definitely doesn't need to be nerfed its completely fine and will be balanced when SoF is nerfed. They do need to fix the bug though, I've discovered that if you play a Twisting Nether into a Yogg and you have a strongman in hand - you don't get a different 8 mana spell and you are unable to play cards for the rest of the game. Happened twice now and both games I was ahead and about to win and had to concede because I couldn't play any cards, seems to a lot of bugs with this secret tbh.
Tickatus also isn't really in need of a nerf, not that strong of a card in all truth - will possibly be cut from my Control lock once the meta calms down a bit. Super annoying but not strong enough to be nerfed.
ive hardly seen secret mage because all even and aggro paladins run Nerub'ar Weblord. seen lots of OTK mage with either Flamewaker or mozaki. I've been OTK'd on turn 5 by the Flamewaker from 30hp and have 5 minions on board. My buddy took secret pally to legend yesterday, but it still has its bad matchups, and can be steamrolled by any board that goes wide quickly or beast and taunt druid decks. Hell, i got killed by a mill druid on turn 6 earlier tonight which was super when he drew 22 cards for himself in a single turn, swapped decks, then hit me with 4x Naturalize
Deck of Lunacy needs no nerf. There are no decks that are unplayable because of its existence. It just makes weapon and aggro decks better, but so is Tickatus. Try having positive winrate with Minionless Mage against Hunter, good luck even with early Deck of Lunacy.
Deck of Lunacy needs no nerf. There are no decks that are unplayable because of its existence. It just makes weapon and aggro decks better, but so is Tickatus. Try having positive winrate with Minionless Mage against Hunter, good luck even with early Deck of Lunacy.
I mean when the HS Devs say it probably needs a nerf then i think they know
Meta hasn't settled yet, and everyone already talking about nerfs.. I think all the classes this expansion got insane cards, let the meta settle a bit, who knows everything might just become balanced and there is no need to nerf..
it has nearly a 70% win rate just from having it in your opening hand. The devs have said they don't want it defining the meta (which it is, every deck has to try and play around it). Its gonna be nerfed into the ground next week thankfully. There are many decks not getting played because of its existence, the meta will open up after the nerfs and the game should be better for everyone.
Deck of Lunacy needs no nerf. There are no decks that are unplayable because of its existence. It just makes weapon and aggro decks better, but so is Tickatus. Try having positive winrate with Minionless Mage against Hunter, good luck even with early Deck of Lunacy.
I mean when the HS Devs say it probably needs a nerf then i think they know
Why cant they admit Paladin secrets were a mistake? They are impossible to balance! Either you have to play them from hand and they suck, or you can play them from deck and they break the game! They missed the chance to get rid of them all with the core set, stupid small indie company.
Why cant they admit Paladin secrets were a mistake? They are impossible to balance! Either you have to play them from hand and they suck, or you can play them from deck and they break the game! They missed the chance to get rid of them all with the core set, stupid small indie company.
I think it can be balanced pretty nicely. Even though Mysterious Challenger was the symbol of Wild/Standard power difference once, he was actually powercrept out of Wild fairly quickly...
I guess this one doesn't need any explanation. Mage has at the moment the highest draw potential ever. THEY DON'T NEED THIS OP CARD
Are you saying mage has the best draw of all the classes right now or that mages draw now is the best it's ever been? On both accounts you're wrong, druid, DH, warlock and even warrior can burn through their decks very quickly right now. And mages draw was at its best when they had Aluneth.
In this new setting, this card is WAAAAAAY too busted.
What? Avenge is not what makes secret paladin good right now, it's certainly a very good for a paladin secret but not in desperate need of a nerf.
For me the strongest/most oppressive cards right now are:
Deck of Lunacy this became way to consistent after the rotation and core set and meme card that become top tier are often sent to the chopping blocks.
Tickatus Another meme card that has made its way into an incredibly powerful deck, Warlock already has the best control tools right now, so throwing tickatus in there as well just blows every other control deck away. Also pretty terrible to play against since there's no real counter to it.
Pen Flinger So much damage/value from this 1 card.
Refreshing Spring Water is pretty broken in spell mage my guy. Draw 2 cards and gain 2 mana (or zero cost at worst) is way too strong. It should at least be nerfed to "restore 1 mana crystal for each spell".
Tickatus is not that strong. He rose to 54% winrate because Jaraxxus is strong af. But he's solidly Tier 2.
Refreshing Spring Water is one of the most broken cards in history. Zero mana draw 2, wtf
Tickatus has a played winrate of 72% in the most played Warlock Deck, really don't know where you find that 54%...
Tikatus is the problem. Its existent stops any control deck from being viable. Guess what beats mage... Priest and Warrior control decks heaving in heals and armor.
Nah that's not true, you could beat tickatus warlock last expansion with highlander mage (about the nearest thing to a control deck) it was a fairly even matchup.
Right now we just don't have any good control finishers in any class except warlock, the problem isn't anything to do with tickatus existing but, with recent card design going away from that archetype. You could argue at a stretch that hero power mage is a control deck, but it plays out a lot more like midrange with most variants of it i've seen.
Go ahead try building a non warlock control deck and tell me how it does on ladder, you can even omit data vs tickatus deck if you really like, i'll tell you now you'll have a painful experience.
Also find it very odd people moaning about Refreshing Spring Water yet you never heard the same stink about Cutting Class which is very often the same effect in Rogue
Anyway I am sure a balance patch will come hopefully they address penflinger and tickatus anything else might be a bonus but there my main concern as a player as its not fun to play against either.
This. And also Tickatus is just ruining any chance of competitive deck building.
You want to have a fun diverse meta. Not a meta where 3 decks are OP and no counters.
This entire conversation is stupid because if they nerf every card that everyone is whining about there will automatically be a new batch of cards for everyone to want nerfed.
Man-up and grow a set.
And this is why I'm glad people who understand the square root of jackshit about statistics don't do nerfs at all.
Deck of lunacy has a mulligan wr% of 66%. SIXTYSIX. People complained about keleseth being problematic for a long time but this card alone wins more games than keleseth shadowstepped, and that's not even hyperbole, this is a card that wins you almost 70% of games when you have it in the mulligan. And it's not like the deck is mediocre or anything like that, it's currently a tier 1 deck and it's that good not because "lolrandem" but because it's actually extremely predictable and powerful. A single card being able to warp the meta like that will get nerfed really quickly.
I don't have any issues with the card myself (played against it a few times in standard but it's unusable in wild so igaf) but to say "no actually the card is not a problem because I don't think so is laughably asinine.
Far be it from me to defend the team (I still have ptsd from the dh launch) but even without considering people like Cora on the team (20+k hs wins and counting), judging by the idiotic opinions of "ze real players™" on display here, maybe it's just as well they don't hire them.
As for the nerf, I expect lunacy to be hammered into the ground hard (4 mana, maybe). Other cards that could be nerfed would be the pala sword and the two most annoying posts (which are growing bothers in wild too).
And I wouldn't be shocked to see jandice nerfed before the next expansion drops considering how good the 5 cost drops are, currently. Needs to be seen how good or otherwise rogues using her will be after the first wave of nerfs though.
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2954-dean-ayalas-community-qa-12-barrens-balance-meeting-on-monday-ai-ladder-core-set-heroic-battlegrounds-and-more
Good chance those two are among the several nerfed cards next week.
Tikatus is the problem. Its existent stops any control deck from being viable. Guess what beats mage... Priest and Warrior control decks heaving in heals and armor.
The only cards what need nerfing are Deck of Lunacy, Refreshing Spring Water and Sword of the Fallen. Lunacy has a 70% win rate from opening hand and Sword Of The Fallen is at 65% (according to my deck tracker) those are absolutely insane stats - no one should be able to have such a high win rate just from those one cards. Nerf these three cards and you open the meta up to a lot of classes which are basically unplayable at the moment.
Oh My Yogg! definitely doesn't need to be nerfed its completely fine and will be balanced when SoF is nerfed. They do need to fix the bug though, I've discovered that if you play a Twisting Nether into a Yogg and you have a strongman in hand - you don't get a different 8 mana spell and you are unable to play cards for the rest of the game. Happened twice now and both games I was ahead and about to win and had to concede because I couldn't play any cards, seems to a lot of bugs with this secret tbh.
Tickatus also isn't really in need of a nerf, not that strong of a card in all truth - will possibly be cut from my Control lock once the meta calms down a bit. Super annoying but not strong enough to be nerfed.
ive hardly seen secret mage because all even and aggro paladins run Nerub'ar Weblord. seen lots of OTK mage with either Flamewaker or mozaki. I've been OTK'd on turn 5 by the Flamewaker from 30hp and have 5 minions on board. My buddy took secret pally to legend yesterday, but it still has its bad matchups, and can be steamrolled by any board that goes wide quickly or beast and taunt druid decks. Hell, i got killed by a mill druid on turn 6 earlier tonight which was super when he drew 22 cards for himself in a single turn, swapped decks, then hit me with 4x Naturalize
Deck of Lunacy needs no nerf. There are no decks that are unplayable because of its existence. It just makes weapon and aggro decks better, but so is Tickatus. Try having positive winrate with Minionless Mage against Hunter, good luck even with early Deck of Lunacy.
I mean when the HS Devs say it probably needs a nerf then i think they know
Meta hasn't settled yet, and everyone already talking about nerfs.. I think all the classes this expansion got insane cards, let the meta settle a bit, who knows everything might just become balanced and there is no need to nerf..
it has nearly a 70% win rate just from having it in your opening hand. The devs have said they don't want it defining the meta (which it is, every deck has to try and play around it). Its gonna be nerfed into the ground next week thankfully. There are many decks not getting played because of its existence, the meta will open up after the nerfs and the game should be better for everyone.
That's not what they said.
Why cant they admit Paladin secrets were a mistake? They are impossible to balance! Either you have to play them from hand and they suck, or you can play them from deck and they break the game! They missed the chance to get rid of them all with the core set, stupid small indie company.
I think it can be balanced pretty nicely. Even though Mysterious Challenger was the symbol of Wild/Standard power difference once, he was actually powercrept out of Wild fairly quickly...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
nerfs? what do you mean?
this is a well balanced and interactive game
Refreshing Spring Water is one of the most broken cards in history. Zero mana draw 2, wtf
Tickatus has a played winrate of 72% in the most played Warlock Deck, really don't know where you find that 54%...
Nah that's not true, you could beat tickatus warlock last expansion with highlander mage (about the nearest thing to a control deck) it was a fairly even matchup.
Right now we just don't have any good control finishers in any class except warlock, the problem isn't anything to do with tickatus existing but, with recent card design going away from that archetype. You could argue at a stretch that hero power mage is a control deck, but it plays out a lot more like midrange with most variants of it i've seen.
Go ahead try building a non warlock control deck and tell me how it does on ladder, you can even omit data vs tickatus deck if you really like, i'll tell you now you'll have a painful experience.
Also find it very odd people moaning about Refreshing Spring Water yet you never heard the same stink about Cutting Class which is very often the same effect in Rogue
I faced 3 mages in a row that had lunacy on turn 2 or 1 with coin and unfun games to follow yes the random spell pool is too good now
*Suggests to nerf 5 cards*
sO jUsT nErF eVeRy SiNgLe CaRd??!1?