I’m all for competition... but I agree that it is just so unfun.
It’s just Rogue after Rogue for me. It’s a deck that’s almost impossible to play against with any other strategy than “I hope I draw my removal” and the other decks are the same.
What deck(s) are you using?
A variety of slower decks. Don’t misunderstand, I’m not doing badly. I have a decent winrate. It just feels like my wins come when RNG is on my side, and I lose when it isn’t.
I'm not encountering many rogues at all if I'm honest. Obviously it's a small sample size but mage and warlock seems a lot more common. I've only really played with control warlock and currently spell mage (which seems really strong so far). In my last 7 games I've had 2 x warlock, 2 x mage, a demon hunter, warrior and a shaman.
Maybe you're better than you give yourself credit for and it's good decisions rather than RNG that are resulting in you winning.
You used to get a few days of fun at expansion launch, its more like a few hrs these days. Hell, reddit stickies a list of deck for people to play at the top of the sub before the launch has even happened, and within a few hours the list of decks is extensive.
I wish there was some kind of internal system that punished you for playing popular decks/cards...some kind of handicap/anti-meta system.
Ultimately, this is why BGs and arena are more fun, and more rewarding to play.
1. If you’re talking about ranked, there’s zero room to complain. It’s the competitive portion of the game, there’s a casual mode for a reason.
2. People need to get over net decking. It’s been around in every card game, ever, and always will be. Also, a streamer doing something on stream doesn’t give them exclusive rights to a deck. People always act like 99% of players’ control locks wouldn’t be 90% the same anyways. Most of the cards played are just obviously good in it.
I don't think you realize how much more fun and diverse the game would be if decks were 90% the same instead of 100%.
And ranked isn't just the competitive mode, it's the only mode period, I'm a very casual player and I only play ranked, because this is where I find worthy opponents that don't concede too easily, casual mode is trash mode where people use trash decks to complete quests, AFK decks to farm xp, or testing netdecks, hit concede when they had bad mulligan and move on, it's not fun at all, and you know that. Not only that, but casual mode now has access to Wild cards, so you can't expect to homebrew some standard deck and have any fun.
So, I don't necessarily agree with the op, I actually like this expansion launch more than most, but your 2 points are just wrong. There is room to complain about ranked, and netdecking makes the game worse and YOU need to get over that.
However people need to understand that, like you said, even without any netdecker, decks would be 90% the same, because that's just how the game works, people refine decks until they're as powerful and synergistic as possible, and given enough time, 2 different people trying to build the same archetype will end up with almost the same result. But there will be some variations, people who enjoy X particular meme card, people who want to combine archetypes (C'thun + spell mage, secret paladin + watch post, things like that), people who tech against specific decks, and that's what makes the game very fun. With netdecks, it's different, people don't care what card is in the deck, so long as the deck is Tier 1, they will play that exact deck and not make any change.
You used to get a few days of fun at expansion launch, its more like a few hrs these days. Hell, reddit stickies a list of deck for people to play at the top of the sub before the launch has even happened, and within a few hours the list of decks is extensive.
I wish there was some kind of internal system that punished you for playing popular decks/cards...some kind of handicap/anti-meta system.
Ultimately, this is why BGs and arena are more fun, and more rewarding to play.
The meta might be starting to settle already, but it's still a great time to experiment. People already play good netdecks, but they don't know how to pilot them yet.
And no, you can't punish players for playing the cards they unpacked/crafted with hard earned resources. Most homebrew decks are 90% like netdecks, this system would literally punish everyone.
1. If you’re talking about ranked, there’s zero room to complain. It’s the competitive portion of the game, there’s a casual mode for a reason.
2. People need to get over net decking. It’s been around in every card game, ever, and always will be. Also, a streamer doing something on stream doesn’t give them exclusive rights to a deck. People always act like 99% of players’ control locks wouldn’t be 90% the same anyways. Most of the cards played are just obviously good in it.
I don't think you realize how much more fun and diverse the game would be if decks were 90% the same instead of 100%.
And ranked isn't just the competitive mode, it's the only mode period, I'm a very casual player and I only play ranked, because this is where I find worthy opponents that don't concede too easily, casual mode is trash mode where people use trash decks to complete quests, AFK decks to farm xp, or testing netdecks, hit concede when they had bad mulligan and move on, it's not fun at all, and you know that. Not only that, but casual mode now has access to Wild cards, so you can't expect to homebrew some standard deck and have any fun.
So, I don't necessarily agree with the op, I actually like this expansion launch more than most, but your 2 points are just wrong. There is room to complain about ranked, and netdecking makes the game worse and YOU need to get over that.
However people need to understand that, like you said, even without any netdecker, decks would be 90% the same, because that's just how the game works, people refine decks until they're as powerful and synergistic as possible, and given enough time, 2 different people trying to build the same archetype will end up with almost the same result. But there will be some variations, people who enjoy X particular meme card, people who want to combine archetypes (C'thun + spell mage, secret paladin + watch post, things like that), people who tech against specific decks, and that's what makes the game very fun. With netdecks, it's different, people don't care what card is in the deck, so long as the deck is Tier 1, they will play that exact deck and not make any change.
Why do I need to get over it lol, I don’t think net decking makes the game worse because I completely accept it as an inevitability.
Ive played card games all my life, and in every single one this has existed. Not really sure what I need to get over, as I have no issue with it and completely accept it as a part of any card game.
Why do I need to get over it lol, I don’t think net decking makes the game worse because I completely accept it as an inevitability.
Well yeah of course, but that won't stop people from complaining that without netdecking the game would be sligthly different and slightly more fun.
I accept the inevitability of netdecking, but I also accept that this is something that makes the game worse. My point is you need to get over the fact that some people will always complain about netdecking, because they're correct. I just don't like people being dismissed on the topic of netdecking just because "it exists". Plenty of awful stuff exist in life.
A big part of the problem is the pre-release streams. Streamers find the decks and then people netdeck. If we all started from zero on release day, it would be much more fun. But, because of pre-release streams, players lose the fun of discovering the expansion.
This has been up before and I agree. Would love to get a "secret" expansion, where no one knew the cards beforehand, so everyone opened packs and got to play with them right away. I know it would only buy 6 to 24 hours before most of the "best" decks were found, but it would be a glorious time... Except for those who just kept playing decks from before expansion that works to farm wins.
Blizzard would also not go along with this because they think it will lower their sales.
Embrace the wild side dude, I came back after a while so cant afford many cards from new sets, crafted Shattered Cthun for last month standard ranked with highlander DH and highlander krond warlock to get some extra packs but still not enough stuff and after rotation things are looking less atractive to rank in Standard now.
Ill play wild this month and depending on gold income might try my luck in standard next month.
Who cares about netdecking , in the end you come up with the exact same deck anyway ;)
It's all about calculating value , so after improving your home made deck you end up with the same cards anyway.
You people always whine and complain if 1 person makes a deck nobody else is allowed to use it , wich is never going to happen with this many players.
Besides theres also people like myself with a winners mentality , I enjoy winning. (Although I like using my brain aswell so I don't like Aggro decks eather)
In the end its also about the person who pilots the deck. I have been at the top of this game for many years. Playing battlegrounds now als high rated within a couple of months of learning. That requires skill aswell , so it's not like everyone you run into that netdecks is actually a good player ;) Maby you need to improve aswell instead of blaming everything else.
Wow. Do you make any webinar on teaching your "winners mentality" by any chance? I'd be more than interested in paying big money for it! Please let me know!
I don't mind telling you, you guys are fucking nuts.
I have 23/27 deck slots filled right now, at least two decks for all classes, and approximately 17 or 18 of them are not at all analogous to previous meta decks, depending on how generous you want to be with minionless mage.
I will admit, a few of them have to throw in the watch posts because they are too good to avoid if you want to play up to the level of the higher tier decks, but so what? Every class except hunter clearly has viable options, and the hunter issue is far from settled (I just personally haven't found anything yet).
Don't get me wrong, I have been thoroughly educated on the fact that most people have no state of satisfaction and would truly bitch about anything, but to unironically title this "most frustrating" anything . . . maybe it's a well-hidden April Fools joke, in which case, good for you, but I think we all know it's not.
EDIT: For the record, I meant 23/27 standard decks. Gotta keep a few classic standards built for fun.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
So - netdecking is a thing and isn't going away. I don't like it, but it is how the world is.
Having said that, people on this forum seem to give a lot of weight to the notion that other people would just have come up with the same decks themselves. I think this is wrong and does a dis-service to those people who come up with the decks in the first place.
Sure, every deck evolves to combat the meta (to some extent) and you tweak based on what works and what doesn't (in your opinon), but to think that you (and by neccesity for this argument, everyone else) would end up with the the same deck as the optimised netdeck is wrong. Even a deck which differs by 1 or 2 cards can be vastly different in performance.
These decks are deisgned initially by one player (who may have put a lot of thought/stats. etc, in to the design) then optimised by thousands of players iterrating on what works and what doesn't. Realistically no single player (excluding expert deck designers) would end up with the same conclusion any time soon.
On top of that, the meta is decided by the prevalance of these net decks. If it was all homebrew decks the meta would take forever to settle as there would be very little predictable pattern in the games - who knows shaman decks might even be viable....
Regarding netdecking - tbh it was always here, even before twitch, HSreplay and streamers were wide watched. People were playing some crazy deck against me, I was impressed, tried to build similar, created my own version of it. Back than I was limited by dust and gold, so I was building few classes I had legendaries for.
I am doing the same now - I take deck I like (from stream, HSreplay etc) and try to create something I will enjoy - thats why I dont play tempo decks or aggro, they have to be built the most effective way to work. 1-2 bad cards and your winrate drops insanely. Control/late game decks can be modified a lot, you can add something to have fun and it will still work.
Thats why I played till the end decks like quest druid.
I don't mind telling you, you guys are fucking nuts.
I have 23/27 deck slots filled right now, at least two decks for all classes, and approximately 17 or 18 of them are not at all analogous to previous meta decks, depending on how generous you want to be with minionless mage.
I will admit, a few of them have to throw in the watch posts because they are too good to avoid if you want to play up to the level of the higher tier decks, but so what? Every class except hunter clearly has viable options, and the hunter issue is far from settled (I just personally haven't found anything yet).
Don't get me wrong, I have been thoroughly educated on the fact that most people have no state of satisfaction and would truly bitch about anything, but to unironically title this "most frustrating" anything . . . maybe it's a well-hidden April Fools joke, in which case, good for you, but I think we all know it's not.
EDIT: For the record, I meant 23/27 standard decks. Gotta keep a few classic standards built for fun.
Hunter seems to be centered around watchtowers early (1-cost weapon with them is insane, as you can clean the board) and big beast late. Hunter was yesterday at 42% winrate on HSreplay, now it is 46%.
He received small beast support which finally enabled Leorrox/KK/Rhino package. I am courious if developers actually thought about this. It looks they were focused on small/medium size beasts and instead there is coming back archetype that failed year ago, was thrown in trash for a year and now was enabled by cards for this aggro/tempo hunter.
The Leorrox can definitely come out of nowhere to drop all sorts of hell on the opponent, but I'm fairly convinced it's memery and not real competition.
Still though, there's basically never been a meta where ten classes have seriously competitive tier 1 or 2 decks. If there are 8 or 9 classes that can fight for serious consideration, sorry to the tenth class, but them's the breaks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I'm not encountering many rogues at all if I'm honest. Obviously it's a small sample size but mage and warlock seems a lot more common. I've only really played with control warlock and currently spell mage (which seems really strong so far). In my last 7 games I've had 2 x warlock, 2 x mage, a demon hunter, warrior and a shaman.
Maybe you're better than you give yourself credit for and it's good decisions rather than RNG that are resulting in you winning.
Nozdormu mode i think would solve alot of problems - slow as priest and rogues.
and mage wtf, triple the xp for the winner in Nozdormu mode - would be fantastic, since this is basically Ropestone now
Pretty much. I am, however, an exception. I play Dragon Priest.
You used to get a few days of fun at expansion launch, its more like a few hrs these days. Hell, reddit stickies a list of deck for people to play at the top of the sub before the launch has even happened, and within a few hours the list of decks is extensive.
I wish there was some kind of internal system that punished you for playing popular decks/cards...some kind of handicap/anti-meta system.
Ultimately, this is why BGs and arena are more fun, and more rewarding to play.
I don't think you realize how much more fun and diverse the game would be if decks were 90% the same instead of 100%.
And ranked isn't just the competitive mode, it's the only mode period, I'm a very casual player and I only play ranked, because this is where I find worthy opponents that don't concede too easily, casual mode is trash mode where people use trash decks to complete quests, AFK decks to farm xp, or testing netdecks, hit concede when they had bad mulligan and move on, it's not fun at all, and you know that. Not only that, but casual mode now has access to Wild cards, so you can't expect to homebrew some standard deck and have any fun.
So, I don't necessarily agree with the op, I actually like this expansion launch more than most, but your 2 points are just wrong. There is room to complain about ranked, and netdecking makes the game worse and YOU need to get over that.
However people need to understand that, like you said, even without any netdecker, decks would be 90% the same, because that's just how the game works, people refine decks until they're as powerful and synergistic as possible, and given enough time, 2 different people trying to build the same archetype will end up with almost the same result. But there will be some variations, people who enjoy X particular meme card, people who want to combine archetypes (C'thun + spell mage, secret paladin + watch post, things like that), people who tech against specific decks, and that's what makes the game very fun. With netdecks, it's different, people don't care what card is in the deck, so long as the deck is Tier 1, they will play that exact deck and not make any change.
The meta might be starting to settle already, but it's still a great time to experiment. People already play good netdecks, but they don't know how to pilot them yet.
And no, you can't punish players for playing the cards they unpacked/crafted with hard earned resources. Most homebrew decks are 90% like netdecks, this system would literally punish everyone.
Why do I need to get over it lol, I don’t think net decking makes the game worse because I completely accept it as an inevitability.
Ive played card games all my life, and in every single one this has existed. Not really sure what I need to get over, as I have no issue with it and completely accept it as a part of any card game.
Well yeah of course, but that won't stop people from complaining that without netdecking the game would be sligthly different and slightly more fun.
I accept the inevitability of netdecking, but I also accept that this is something that makes the game worse. My point is you need to get over the fact that some people will always complain about netdecking, because they're correct. I just don't like people being dismissed on the topic of netdecking just because "it exists". Plenty of awful stuff exist in life.
And I don't mean to be rude or anything.
This has been up before and I agree. Would love to get a "secret" expansion, where no one knew the cards beforehand, so everyone opened packs and got to play with them right away. I know it would only buy 6 to 24 hours before most of the "best" decks were found, but it would be a glorious time... Except for those who just kept playing decks from before expansion that works to farm wins.
Blizzard would also not go along with this because they think it will lower their sales.
But we can dream.
Embrace the wild side dude, I came back after a while so cant afford many cards from new sets, crafted Shattered Cthun for last month standard ranked with highlander DH and highlander krond warlock to get some extra packs but still not enough stuff and after rotation things are looking less atractive to rank in Standard now.
Ill play wild this month and depending on gold income might try my luck in standard next month.
Wow. Do you make any webinar on teaching your "winners mentality" by any chance? I'd be more than interested in paying big money for it! Please let me know!
I don't mind telling you, you guys are fucking nuts.
I have 23/27 deck slots filled right now, at least two decks for all classes, and approximately 17 or 18 of them are not at all analogous to previous meta decks, depending on how generous you want to be with minionless mage.
I will admit, a few of them have to throw in the watch posts because they are too good to avoid if you want to play up to the level of the higher tier decks, but so what? Every class except hunter clearly has viable options, and the hunter issue is far from settled (I just personally haven't found anything yet).
Don't get me wrong, I have been thoroughly educated on the fact that most people have no state of satisfaction and would truly bitch about anything, but to unironically title this "most frustrating" anything . . . maybe it's a well-hidden April Fools joke, in which case, good for you, but I think we all know it's not.
EDIT: For the record, I meant 23/27 standard decks. Gotta keep a few classic standards built for fun.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
So - netdecking is a thing and isn't going away. I don't like it, but it is how the world is.
Having said that, people on this forum seem to give a lot of weight to the notion that other people would just have come up with the same decks themselves. I think this is wrong and does a dis-service to those people who come up with the decks in the first place.
Sure, every deck evolves to combat the meta (to some extent) and you tweak based on what works and what doesn't (in your opinon), but to think that you (and by neccesity for this argument, everyone else) would end up with the the same deck as the optimised netdeck is wrong. Even a deck which differs by 1 or 2 cards can be vastly different in performance.
These decks are deisgned initially by one player (who may have put a lot of thought/stats. etc, in to the design) then optimised by thousands of players iterrating on what works and what doesn't. Realistically no single player (excluding expert deck designers) would end up with the same conclusion any time soon.
On top of that, the meta is decided by the prevalance of these net decks. If it was all homebrew decks the meta would take forever to settle as there would be very little predictable pattern in the games - who knows shaman decks might even be viable....
Really? There are 2 decks which are fun for me
I didnt get to play hero power mage (seems like interesting deck, but I dont have any mage legendaries yet, so waiting if it will be worth it).
There are 3 classes, that are issue and we knew about it:
Regarding netdecking - tbh it was always here, even before twitch, HSreplay and streamers were wide watched. People were playing some crazy deck against me, I was impressed, tried to build similar, created my own version of it. Back than I was limited by dust and gold, so I was building few classes I had legendaries for.
I am doing the same now - I take deck I like (from stream, HSreplay etc) and try to create something I will enjoy - thats why I dont play tempo decks or aggro, they have to be built the most effective way to work. 1-2 bad cards and your winrate drops insanely. Control/late game decks can be modified a lot, you can add something to have fun and it will still work.
Thats why I played till the end decks like quest druid.
Hunter seems to be centered around watchtowers early (1-cost weapon with them is insane, as you can clean the board) and big beast late. Hunter was yesterday at 42% winrate on HSreplay, now it is 46%.
He received small beast support which finally enabled Leorrox/KK/Rhino package. I am courious if developers actually thought about this. It looks they were focused on small/medium size beasts and instead there is coming back archetype that failed year ago, was thrown in trash for a year and now was enabled by cards for this aggro/tempo hunter.
The Leorrox can definitely come out of nowhere to drop all sorts of hell on the opponent, but I'm fairly convinced it's memery and not real competition.
Still though, there's basically never been a meta where ten classes have seriously competitive tier 1 or 2 decks. If there are 8 or 9 classes that can fight for serious consideration, sorry to the tenth class, but them's the breaks.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
BRO DID YOU EVEN PLAY AGAINST ASHES OF OUTLANDS DAY 1 DEMON HUNTER THAT GOT NERFED SAME DAY
Tldr: you’re painfully wrong
Getting high rolled by unengaging no-minion mage can be annoying but of every expansion, this is not even the bottom 5 experiences.