Definitely. Every time I queue up against a mage I feel like we might as well toss a coin who wins. (Usually my winrates even back that statement up quite well. Around 50% with almost any deck.) When you play against a Warrior you know you might get brawled on turn 5, when playing against a warlock you know they'll do anything to slam down Tickatus asap. Against Mage you can't plan anything since about 90% of their effects are random to some point. I was in utter disgust when I opened Deck of Lunacy in a pack a few months ago. Not my understanding of fun at all.
I wonder, is there any WOW lore to back that up? In other lores like DnD mages usually are the strategic, carefully planning intellectual type, whereas in HS they're just like "YOLO, I'm gonna wave my wand around and hope it does something good for me." It seems so odd.
Deck of Lunacy decks are NOT casino decks. Read my post. I can understand that players may thinks it's a casino deck. You get random spells that you choose and use according to what you are up against. The advantage that Deck of Lunacy gives is the discounted cost of the cards. Again Casino is I drop a card and I see what happens. This is not the case at all with Deck of Lunacy. We DO GET useless, unplayable cards and we do lose because of that. No minion Mage (with deck of Lunacy) is TIER2!! Get real and objective for once.
Casino = random. You can’t redefine casino to mean something else because it makes your deck sound like it’s not random. But with the 3-cost reduction, it’s more like a fixed casino and you’re the house with the advantage.
Totally agree with you Casino means random. But there are two types of randomness in the game. You have Casino cards like Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron and Brawl where where the randomness is in the outcome of the play. Then you have what I call "random generating" card like Deck of Lunacy here the randomness is in the cards you receive, not when you play them. The advantage is, I agree, discounted cards. There is a price though for that advantage...you do get a lot of useless cards and you do lose because of this more often than you think, that's why this deck is Tier 2. I just that think many players confuse these two types of randomness. For me the most powerful card in this deck (and one of the best in the game) is Refreshing Spring Water.
Definitely. Every time I queue up against a mage I feel like we might as well toss a coin who wins. (Usually my winrates even back that statement up quite well. Around 50% with almost any deck.) When you play against a Warrior you know you might get brawled on turn 5, when playing against a warlock you know they'll do anything to slam down Tickatus asap. Against Mage you can't plan anything since about 90% of their effects are random to some point. I was in utter disgust when I opened Deck of Lunacy in a pack a few months ago. Not my understanding of fun at all.
I wonder, is there any WOW lore to back that up? In other lores like DnD mages usually are the strategic, carefully planning intellectual type, whereas in HS they're just like "YOLO, I'm gonna wave my wand around and hope it does something good for me." It seems so odd.
Deck of Lunacy decks are NOT casino decks. Read my post. I can understand that players may thinks it's a casino deck. You get random spells that you choose and use according to what you are up against. The advantage that Deck of Lunacy gives is the discounted cost of the cards. Again Casino is I drop a card and I see what happens. This is not the case at all with Deck of Lunacy. We DO GET useless, unplayable cards and we do lose because of that. No minion Mage (with deck of Lunacy) is TIER2!! Get real and objective for once.
Casino = random. You can’t redefine casino to mean something else because it makes your deck sound like it’s not random. But with the 3-cost reduction, it’s more like a fixed casino and you’re the house with the advantage.
Totally agree with you Casino means random. But there are two types of randomness in the game. You have Casino cards like Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron and Brawl where where the randomness is in the outcome of the play. Then you have what I call "random generating" card like Deck of Lunacy here the randomness is in the cards you receive, not when you play them. The advantage is, I agree, discounted cards. There is a price though for that advantage...you do get a lot of useless cards and you do lose because of this more often than you think, that's why this deck is Tier 2. I just that think many players confuse these two types of randomness. For me the most powerful card in this deck (and one of the best in the game) is Refreshing Spring Water.
Ok I understand you, thanks. As for the deck being T2, right now Mage and Paladin are the only decks with WR over 50%, so I’d say T1. We’d have to give it a bit more time to see if it’s truly T1 though… although it sounds like upcoming nerfs might deny us the chance to ever know,
The cost reduction is extremely powerful. Even cards that are generally weak are actually pretty good when they cost 3 (or 4 if you got incanter flow) less.
Went seven games in a row where mage was my opponent and Lunacy was the turn 2 play.
All 7 games, metamorphosis was generated twice. Weird.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
There is something wrong with mage players also, I should say. Every. Single. f~ Mage is BMing into oblivion with emotes and over damaging you when there is no reason. I played like 20 mages already and there was only a few who played with honor. Every other one is just:
"Hello, Well Played, Thank you, Hello", *plays 10 spells when you have 2 hp*, "Well played"
Guys they already announced nerfs for lunacy mage next week.
Enjoy this deck for the next couple days
source?
Iksar tweeted that he doesn't like DoL Mage being competitive and they will have a meeting on Monday to discuss balance change. It is very likely that DoL will be nerfed to 3 mana.
There is something wrong with mage players also, I should say. Every. Single. f~ Mage is BMing into oblivion with emotes and over damaging you when there is no reason. I played like 20 mages already and there was only a few who played with honor. Every other one is just:
"Hello, Well Played, Thank you, Hello", *plays 10 spells when you have 2 hp*, "Well played"
It is not like they need to think about their plays, they are not even playing cards that they put into their decks. They have lots of time to BM.
Like I never understood that hate for Tickatus (yes its frustrating but you knw from the get go what your facing and you can build accordingly and hope for a win). But this deck its just absolute bonkers and "not fun", as many said its Legendary but somehow every mage has it on turn 2, followed by spell cost reduction and spring water on 4. The biggest issue is not just the randomness but the biggest culprit is Nagrand Slam! THe pool size is just too good, the cost reduction is too good, the card draw consistency is too good!
Like I never understood that hate for Tickatus (yes its frustrating but you knw from the get go what your facing and you can build accordingly and hope for a win). But this deck its just absolute bonkers and "not fun", as many said its Legendary but somehow every mage has it on turn 2, followed by spell cost reduction and spring water on 4. The biggest issue is not just the randomness but the biggest culprit is Nagrand Slam! THe pool size is just too good, the cost reduction is too good, the card draw consistency is too good!
yes right now its hard in 4 months its garbage. same with the secrets. 6 secrets in pool, so its always mirror and counterspell.
Guys they already announced nerfs for lunacy mage next week.
Enjoy this deck for the next couple days
source?
Iksar tweeted that he doesn't like DoL Mage being competitive and they will have a meeting on Monday to discuss balance change. It is very likely that DoL will be nerfed to 3 mana.
3 mana doens't change anything, they need to change it to 5 or 4 at least.
The deck is just an exploit as far as I'm concerned. It just abuses the fact that Libram of Hope is the only 9 mana spell and both 10 mana spells are busted. Combine that with shit loads of burst damage which Blizz were apparently going to tone down and just didn't bother and god like broken draw cards makes for one toxic deck.
I play Watchpost Paladin and it really throws a wrench into Mages’ decks. They keep conceding when every card they draw costs 2 more mana and they can’t clear my board lol. 😂
I actually feel this game is heading down the shitter, and it's because of stuff like Deck of Lunacy, the discover mechanics (which currently have pretty high odds of giving you what you want), the endless free card draw (for a handful of classes) and shitty card designs like Pen Flinger.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's easy to balance some of this stuff (for example Deck of Lunacy seemed fine before the rotation and basically saw zero play), but Blizzard still continues to print cards which are just obviously broken even before you get to play around with them (e.g. Refreshing Spring Water ), or are super un-fun to play against (e.g. Tickatus ).
To tie this in with the original post - Mages have historicaly had (and continue to have) a lot of these types of cards in their arsenal which is why I think that they feel so bad to play against. They also have some of the most impactful secrets (and plenty of ways to play/draw these for free) which can often make you feel helpless throught the game.
As a game designer I think the minute a card like Deck of Lunacy becomes the meta you know you fucked up. Random cards should not be better than a designed deck, and yet here we are....
well, people post very often that they do not like to lose to rdm. But its just not true that deck of lunacy is really rdm. There are very few cards at that high mana cost and if you make your spells cheaper twice your deck of lunacy gets worse. So if you think about it its not very rdm at all and you will see very similiar results different games.
though i think just deck of lunacy is not the problem. the mage deck consist of mostly super busted cards and on top of that they can also play lunacy.
its more the problem that blizz just constantly prints cards with certain synergies that force their idea of a deck type and obviously if its not strong enough they print more and more until its so strong that only top tier decks can compete in ranked. and this makes the whole experience pretty dull if you happen to be a person, who likes to try their own decks. its kinda obvious that their will be meta decks but meta decks being so strong that it basically doesnt really matter any more what the player does.
There is something wrong with mage players also, I should say. Every. Single. f~ Mage is BMing into oblivion with emotes and over damaging you when there is no reason. I played like 20 mages already and there was only a few who played with honor. Every other one is just:
"Hello, Well Played, Thank you, Hello", *plays 10 spells when you have 2 hp*, "Well played"
Don't be that person who generalises people based on what class they play on a digital card game. It's beyond ridiculous and I actually worry for people who think this way, what other things do they do this with? If you are someone who can judge a stranger because the mage portrait pops up when a match starts, you must do it a lot in other areas of life.
It's an embarrassingly ignorant mind set.
On mage, as some other have said, I feel spring water is more of an issue really. Having played a lot of spell mage in the last 6+ months, this card is the single biggest boost I feel I've had. Lunacy is very good at the moment because its consistency is increased due to a limited card pool of spells. I don't mind if they want to nerf it but then revert it once the pool increases, cool.
I still feel they will need to deal with springwater at some stage though. Hitting flow into double springwater can provide some bananas plays. As much as I love the card, it's a little too efficient and powerful.
Guys they already announced nerfs for lunacy mage next week.
Enjoy this deck for the next couple days
Totally agree with you Casino means random. But there are two types of randomness in the game. You have Casino cards like Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron and Brawl where where the randomness is in the outcome of the play. Then you have what I call "random generating" card like Deck of Lunacy here the randomness is in the cards you receive, not when you play them. The advantage is, I agree, discounted cards. There is a price though for that advantage...you do get a lot of useless cards and you do lose because of this more often than you think, that's why this deck is Tier 2. I just that think many players confuse these two types of randomness. For me the most powerful card in this deck (and one of the best in the game) is Refreshing Spring Water.
source?
Ok I understand you, thanks. As for the deck being T2, right now Mage and Paladin are the only decks with WR over 50%, so I’d say T1. We’d have to give it a bit more time to see if it’s truly T1 though… although it sounds like upcoming nerfs might deny us the chance to ever know,
The cost reduction is extremely powerful. Even cards that are generally weak are actually pretty good when they cost 3 (or 4 if you got incanter flow) less.
Went seven games in a row where mage was my opponent and Lunacy was the turn 2 play.
All 7 games, metamorphosis was generated twice. Weird.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
no one may even utter "Mozaki" in the mem dome and its perimeter under threat of severe punishment :)
There is something wrong with mage players also, I should say. Every. Single. f~ Mage is BMing into oblivion with emotes and over damaging you when there is no reason. I played like 20 mages already and there was only a few who played with honor. Every other one is just:
"Hello, Well Played, Thank you, Hello", *plays 10 spells when you have 2 hp*, "Well played"
Iksar tweeted that he doesn't like DoL Mage being competitive and they will have a meeting on Monday to discuss balance change. It is very likely that DoL will be nerfed to 3 mana.
It is not like they need to think about their plays, they are not even playing cards that they put into their decks. They have lots of time to BM.
Like I never understood that hate for Tickatus (yes its frustrating but you knw from the get go what your facing and you can build accordingly and hope for a win). But this deck its just absolute bonkers and "not fun", as many said its Legendary but somehow every mage has it on turn 2, followed by spell cost reduction and spring water on 4. The biggest issue is not just the randomness but the biggest culprit is Nagrand Slam! THe pool size is just too good, the cost reduction is too good, the card draw consistency is too good!
yes right now its hard in 4 months its garbage. same with the secrets. 6 secrets in pool, so its always mirror and counterspell.
3 mana doens't change anything, they need to change it to 5 or 4 at least.
90% of the time? That's just a proof of a bad player it should be 100% lmao, also there is nothing "random" about it.
The deck is just an exploit as far as I'm concerned. It just abuses the fact that Libram of Hope is the only 9 mana spell and both 10 mana spells are busted. Combine that with shit loads of burst damage which Blizz were apparently going to tone down and just didn't bother and god like broken draw cards makes for one toxic deck.
I play Watchpost Paladin and it really throws a wrench into Mages’ decks. They keep conceding when every card they draw costs 2 more mana and they can’t clear my board lol. 😂
I actually feel this game is heading down the shitter, and it's because of stuff like Deck of Lunacy, the discover mechanics (which currently have pretty high odds of giving you what you want), the endless free card draw (for a handful of classes) and shitty card designs like Pen Flinger.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's easy to balance some of this stuff (for example Deck of Lunacy seemed fine before the rotation and basically saw zero play), but Blizzard still continues to print cards which are just obviously broken even before you get to play around with them (e.g. Refreshing Spring Water ), or are super un-fun to play against (e.g. Tickatus ).
To tie this in with the original post - Mages have historicaly had (and continue to have) a lot of these types of cards in their arsenal which is why I think that they feel so bad to play against. They also have some of the most impactful secrets (and plenty of ways to play/draw these for free) which can often make you feel helpless throught the game.
As a game designer I think the minute a card like Deck of Lunacy becomes the meta you know you fucked up. Random cards should not be better than a designed deck, and yet here we are....
well, people post very often that they do not like to lose to rdm. But its just not true that deck of lunacy is really rdm. There are very few cards at that high mana cost and if you make your spells cheaper twice your deck of lunacy gets worse. So if you think about it its not very rdm at all and you will see very similiar results different games.
though i think just deck of lunacy is not the problem. the mage deck consist of mostly super busted cards and on top of that they can also play lunacy.
its more the problem that blizz just constantly prints cards with certain synergies that force their idea of a deck type and obviously if its not strong enough they print more and more until its so strong that only top tier decks can compete in ranked. and this makes the whole experience pretty dull if you happen to be a person, who likes to try their own decks. its kinda obvious that their will be meta decks but meta decks being so strong that it basically doesnt really matter any more what the player does.
Don't be that person who generalises people based on what class they play on a digital card game. It's beyond ridiculous and I actually worry for people who think this way, what other things do they do this with? If you are someone who can judge a stranger because the mage portrait pops up when a match starts, you must do it a lot in other areas of life.
It's an embarrassingly ignorant mind set.
On mage, as some other have said, I feel spring water is more of an issue really. Having played a lot of spell mage in the last 6+ months, this card is the single biggest boost I feel I've had. Lunacy is very good at the moment because its consistency is increased due to a limited card pool of spells. I don't mind if they want to nerf it but then revert it once the pool increases, cool.
I still feel they will need to deal with springwater at some stage though. Hitting flow into double springwater can provide some bananas plays. As much as I love the card, it's a little too efficient and powerful.
#StopMage