Saw this notion questioned in another thread. I am a recently returned player and I was told that it is.
But doing some back of the envelope math I estimate that in the past you got 50g per quest (I last played just before Frozen Throne) if you used them properly, so for 120 days of play a typical expansion would allow you would make 6000g. But ofc you also had 10g per 3 wins, I am going to assume the player is moderately active and so has 9 wins a day, 30g a day, giving them 3600g more for a total of 9600g estimate for the old system.
Now IIRC Reward Track is 5650g or something like that. And you should get there (in my experience) after two months of the kind of play discussed for this hypothetical player. Leaving you another two months to get that bonus gold. Since the total XP of the reward track is 155k and it took two months it means you will earn about as much in the next two months. Since it is roughly 50g for 1,5k XP this player will earn above 5000 gold in that time, lets say 5350g to make the calculation cleaner later. Putting them at a 11000g total. You do get a few cards and cardpacks along the way however and some other material perks, I estimate these at 2200g for the more generous FitB track, the current one would be about half that, maybe a bit more. Giving a final estimate for the new system of 13200g of which 11000g is pure flexible gold which I imagine most players prefer.
So counting all things it seems the new system does win.
Final consideration is players who play less or more than this proposed "midrange" player. Those who play less would do better under the new system since the reward track moves quickly in the first half. A player who barely finishes all their quests would probably still do better under the new track system but it would be closer. Players who play a lot don't win as much but still win I think. This is because the rate of return on time played after lvl 50 is poor and flat out caps out at lvl 350. Meanwhile those same high investment players could be hitting their 100g from 3win cap every day. I feel I roughly get 100xp from a ranked win, but not all are wins nor are all games ranked so the average is probably closer to 70, counting a win-loss pair I will estimate 120XP for two games, again a win and a loss. Since to get 100g from 3wins is 30 wins, again we will say you lose one game for each win, 60 games, 30 pairs. So an equivalent amount of play in reward track times is 3600XP lets say that's 120g a day equivalent. Now not all XP will be exchanged at the atrocious post lvl 50 exchange rate but most will so fair math I'd say. If you want you can add 10g to that estimate to account for this.
Final conclusion seems everybody wins under the new system.
What do you guys think? What have others calculated?
EDIT: I was under the erroneous belief that post 50 levels are also 5k XP but they are 1,3-1,5k XP. I did not hit 50 this track so I didn't know. This led to me severely lowball how much gold will be earned in the later half of the reward track. With this correction I estimate an average player to earn 11k pure gold and hit something like level 160 which seems to be the case for most posting in this thread. Given all this it seems there is no debate, reward track is superior for all.
Well I can attest to the casual portion. I have the most gold going into an expansion that I have ever had. I also bought the darkmoon races mini set for 2k gold in the middle of this expansion cycle and still am at 9500g. I typically play only 2-3 bgs games a day, and rarely any constructed (just enough to clear our my quest log every few days. I missed a few weekly quests here and there, but overall got a majority completed. I’m all on board with the new system.
I used to think the same. I haven't made a gold calculus, but you didn't took into account the free extra guaranteed legendary. How much you value a legendary from a set, that's the question. 400 dust, 1600? I'd say about 700-800 dust, if I had to choose between a 8 packs and a random legendary, I'd take the legendary no question asked. (also, the statistics say that a pack contains ~98 dust in average if you were to disenchant everything. So in avg 1g=1dust and 1 pack=100dust=100g). If you see it this way, the new system is slightly better for even the mid and top tier. Also the mid and top tier would like a random legendary even more considering the duplicate protection. Also, add in the arena thickets (another 120g in value).
For me, I'd say I'm mid, lvl ~175, played a lot less then any other expansion. Got the 2k miniset, 2 heroes (3k g), and i'm still at ~7k profit this expansion. The best I ever had was 10k before and I used to play a lot more. Conclusion: another 10% xp for lvlup nerf would settle this discussion once and for all.
I usually only play to do daily missions, before reward tracking I could get 6K gold, and now I’m with 10K, could be more but I spent 2K in packs after Darkmoon Races
Well I can attest to the casual portion. I have the most gold going into an expansion that I have ever had. I also bought the darkmoon races mini set for 2k gold in the middle of this expansion cycle and still am at 9500g. I typically play only 2-3 bgs games a day, and rarely any constructed (just enough to clear our my quest log every few days. I missed a few weekly quests here and there, but overall got a majority completed. I’m all on board with the new system.
Thanks for the input m8. So with the 2k you spent on the mini-set you made 11,5k this expansion cycle correct? None of that gold was from before and none was spent elsewhere (arenas, packs, etc)?
I used to think the same. I haven't made a gold calculus, but you didn't took into account the free extra guaranteed legendary. How much you value a legendary from a set, that's the question. 400 dust, 1600? I'd say about 700-800 dust, if I had to choose between a 8 packs and a random legendary, I'd take the legendary no question asked. (also, the statistics say that a pack contains ~98 dust in average if you were to disenchant everything. So in avg 1g=1dust and 1 pack=100dust=100g). If you see it this way, the new system is slightly better for even the mid and top tier. Also the mid and top tier would like a random legendary even more considering the duplicate protection. Also, add in the arena thickets (another 120g in value).
For me, I'd say I'm mid, lvl ~175, played a lot less then any other expansion. Got the 2k miniset, 2 heroes (3k g), and i'm still at ~7k profit this expansion. The best I ever had was 10k before and I used to play a lot more. Conclusion: another 10% xp for lvlup nerf would settle this discussion once and for all.
I did take into account the non-gold material benefits of the reward track, packs, tickets, rares, epics and legends all. I estimated their value at 2,2k g. Now we can disagree on the estimate ofc (note the estimate is for FitB, the DF one is about half that). One thing for sure is that people value things differently, an old player probably doesn't value Phoenix packs much since they already have about all the cards they'd want. Given the popularity of the thread where a player says they won't buy FitB packs much it seems even they are not so hot right now. A player who intends to buy 40 or so packs has little need for the rares we are being given, etc. Again depends on the player but ultimately all would prefer the pure gold equivalent since that lets them do whatever it is they like most.
Another thing to consider is that before we got a few packs to celebrate the launch of new expansions, sometimes legends too (I recall C'thun at the very least) but now these have been rolled into the reward track. It is more sure but we did lose a bit in other areas.
Nonetheless I am glad you posted and shared your thoughts. Seems they are in line with what others have been saying, that they made about 11k without too much effort and that it is markedly better than before.
I usually only play to do daily missions, before reward tracking I could get 6K gold, and now I’m with 10K, could be more but I spent 2K in packs after Darkmoon Races
9 wins a day seems very high imo. I do all my daily quests and weeklies and ive come out way ahead on gold even after buying the mini expansion. Going in to this new expansion with over 10k so for me the system is miles better
Well I can attest to the casual portion. I have the most gold going into an expansion that I have ever had. I also bought the darkmoon races mini set for 2k gold in the middle of this expansion cycle and still am at 9500g. I typically play only 2-3 bgs games a day, and rarely any constructed (just enough to clear our my quest log every few days. I missed a few weekly quests here and there, but overall got a majority completed. I’m all on board with the new system.
Thanks for the input m8. So with the 2k you spent on the mini-set you made 11,5k this expansion cycle correct? None of that gold was from before and none was spent elsewhere (arenas, packs, etc)?
That all sounds correct. I’m pretty sure I zeroed out my gold balance buying packs at the start the expansion. So 11.5k total gold from this track alone.
Edit: also, FYI I did not buy the premium rewards track just in case you were curious.
In addition to all the posts saying that they got more gold, I must also say, grinding on the track feels SOOOOOO much better than getting that 50-60 gold from winning games to buy one pack a day. The weekly quests in particular are a very welcome addition.
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I love you Dreadsteed, I will never disenchant you!
I feel like The new reward system is better for people who actually play a lot. I've had more free time this expansion, and play anywhere from 3-10 games of ranked or arena a day. That being said I'm at lvl 174 on the track, I play an arena run every other day and I spent 2k gold for the mini set and I'm at 8200 gold. So as of now I've accumulated way more gold then the old system. nothing wrong with blizzard adopting a model that rewards people who play their game a lot, instead of logging in for 10 mins then leaving.
Just going to confirm this too. I have more gold than I used to get and feel much more engaged with the game than before, due to the weekly quests giving you more motivation to log in every day/week.
In the old days there were many days where I;d log in, re-roll my daily cause it was shit, end up with a different shit daily and just log out again. Now, even if my daily is not great, there's always weeklies to work on (at least early in the week). So then you still play just to get some progress on those.
And sometimes, you get a daily that is good XP, but might not be what you prefer, but you end up doing it anyway, cause you wanted to get progress on your weeklies.
So, more gold, more engagement with the game due to weeklies and I actually get more out of the game cause it persuades me to do things outside of my comfort zone (ie play classes and decks I wouldn't usually).
All in all it's been great, and they have made the reward track have even more side benefits this time, even on the free track. So this expansion should be even better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
There are so many variables in terms of figuring out whether or not you've come out ahead, it's very hard to generalize. Some of it is, as you state, a function of how much you play. Most analysis suggests that very frequent, hard-core players lose under this system. (If you were bringing in 60 gold for the daily quest PLUS 100 gold for winning 30 games/ day, you are definitely down big under the new system.) In addition, the new system, because it rewards XP primarily for time played rather than wins, no longer rewards fast, aggro decks the way the 10g/ 3 wins system did. So aggro players took a hit, while control players got a boost.
I consider myself a moderate-to-frequent player. Speaking personally, in previous expansions I typically had between 7000 and 8000 gold prior to the next expac coming out. Today, I'm sitting on over 11k, so I'm way ahead (even with spending a good amount of gold on the mini-expansion). I don't THINK I'm spending more time playing than I did before (I'm actually very unhappy with the current meta decks in Standard), but it's certainly possible. Not enough, however, to explain having c. 50% more gold than I used to. So I'm happy with the system.
There is one important factor most people don't realize, grinding levels feels better than grinding 10g per 3 wins, so a lot of players feel like they are getting more gold, but in fact they are just spending more time playing the game.
If you played the same amount you will realize the new system yield approximately the same amount of gold.
Also, don't forget we got like a 37k exp boost on the first rewards track, not sure if we will get another one.
IMHO, the exp amount per level should be reduced by at least 15-25% (which you kind of get from the pass, but you have to pay $$, you see where I am going with this?) in order to make the rewards track feel less of a grindfest after certain levels.
There is one important factor most people don't realize, grinding levels feels better than grinding 10g per 3 wins, so a lot of players feel like they are getting more gold, but in fact they are just spending more time playing the game.
If you played the same amount you will realize the new system yield approximately the same amount of gold.
I definitely 100% did not play the game more to the degree that explains the increase in gold. I would have had to play the game some 20% more. (not counting pass xp)
Blizzard just deliberately shifted to a new way of monetizing the game. They;d rather get $20 dollars on the reward track pass from a very great amount of people than $50 dollars from a far smaller group on preorders. And the Reward track pass is a great deal. It pays for itself in extra gold and then you get all the cosmetics and other stuff on top of it.
And then there's the engagement. If people are more engaged with your game, day to day and week to week, they are far more likely to spend actual money on it.
Blizzard just switched to a better way of getting money out of their game, and in return are more than happy to give away more free stuff, since it only helps to create a system where people are mroe engaged with the game and more likely to spend on it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
There is one important factor most people don't realize, grinding levels feels better than grinding 10g per 3 wins, so a lot of players feel like they are getting more gold, but in fact they are just spending more time playing the game.
If you played the same amount you will realize the new system yield approximately the same amount of gold.
Also, don't forget we got like a 37k exp boost on the first rewards track, not sure if we will get another one.
IMHO, the exp amount per level should be reduced by at least 15-25% (which you kind of get from the pass, but you have to pay $$, you see where I am going with this?) in order to make the rewards track feel less of a grindfest after certain levels.
No, that's actually not correct. Again, all the analysis that I've seen has shown that there were winners and losers in the change: very hard-core players lost gold, more casual players gained. You can play exactly the same way you did before and get very different amounts of gold, depending on how much you play and the types of decks you play.
And, again, I'm quite sure I'm not playing more than I used to (I don't have very much free time, except late at night and on weekends) and I'm making more gold than I used to.
And that boost Blizzard gave when it revised the system was designed to get people to roughly where they would have been had the revised system been in place from the outset. So it will not be repeated this expansion.
Yep, definitely making more gold now than with the old system. Made 14k this expansion if I count the 2k I paid for the mini set. I play only ranked in Standard and did not buy the pass.
I did buy the pass, and got miniset for $$. Had a bit more time playing this expansion (made it once to legendary and usually D5. im 8k BG). Now Im sitting at 13k gold (lev 201 on reward track), and its the most i Have ever got (usually pre release I was between 8,5-9,5k),
Level: 164 Gold: 8855 (+2000 for the mini-expansion).
It's about 25% more gold than usual, but I do spend more time on the game as well. What level are most casuals here (just finishing quests, and a few games here and there) at with the battle pass?
If it ends up being 4-5K more gold, I might get it. Otherwise, I'll probably pass.
Saw this notion questioned in another thread. I am a recently returned player and I was told that it is.
But doing some back of the envelope math I estimate that in the past you got 50g per quest (I last played just before Frozen Throne) if you used them properly, so for 120 days of play a typical expansion would allow you would make 6000g. But ofc you also had 10g per 3 wins, I am going to assume the player is moderately active and so has 9 wins a day, 30g a day, giving them 3600g more for a total of 9600g estimate for the old system.
Now IIRC Reward Track is 5650g or something like that. And you should get there (in my experience) after two months of the kind of play discussed for this hypothetical player. Leaving you another two months to get that bonus gold. Since the total XP of the reward track is 155k and it took two months it means you will earn about as much in the next two months. Since it is roughly 50g for 1,5k XP this player will earn above 5000 gold in that time, lets say 5350g to make the calculation cleaner later. Putting them at a 11000g total. You do get a few cards and cardpacks along the way however and some other material perks, I estimate these at 2200g for the more generous FitB track, the current one would be about half that, maybe a bit more. Giving a final estimate for the new system of 13200g of which 11000g is pure flexible gold which I imagine most players prefer.
So counting all things it seems the new system does win.
Final consideration is players who play less or more than this proposed "midrange" player. Those who play less would do better under the new system since the reward track moves quickly in the first half. A player who barely finishes all their quests would probably still do better under the new track system but it would be closer. Players who play a lot don't win as much but still win I think. This is because the rate of return on time played after lvl 50 is poor and flat out caps out at lvl 350. Meanwhile those same high investment players could be hitting their 100g from 3win cap every day. I feel I roughly get 100xp from a ranked win, but not all are wins nor are all games ranked so the average is probably closer to 70, counting a win-loss pair I will estimate 120XP for two games, again a win and a loss. Since to get 100g from 3wins is 30 wins, again we will say you lose one game for each win, 60 games, 30 pairs. So an equivalent amount of play in reward track times is 3600XP lets say that's 120g a day equivalent. Now not all XP will be exchanged at the atrocious post lvl 50 exchange rate but most will so fair math I'd say. If you want you can add 10g to that estimate to account for this.
Final conclusion seems everybody wins under the new system.
What do you guys think? What have others calculated?
EDIT: I was under the erroneous belief that post 50 levels are also 5k XP but they are 1,3-1,5k XP. I did not hit 50 this track so I didn't know. This led to me severely lowball how much gold will be earned in the later half of the reward track. With this correction I estimate an average player to earn 11k pure gold and hit something like level 160 which seems to be the case for most posting in this thread. Given all this it seems there is no debate, reward track is superior for all.
Well I can attest to the casual portion. I have the most gold going into an expansion that I have ever had. I also bought the darkmoon races mini set for 2k gold in the middle of this expansion cycle and still am at 9500g. I typically play only 2-3 bgs games a day, and rarely any constructed (just enough to clear our my quest log every few days. I missed a few weekly quests here and there, but overall got a majority completed. I’m all on board with the new system.
I used to think the same. I haven't made a gold calculus, but you didn't took into account the free extra guaranteed legendary. How much you value a legendary from a set, that's the question. 400 dust, 1600? I'd say about 700-800 dust, if I had to choose between a 8 packs and a random legendary, I'd take the legendary no question asked. (also, the statistics say that a pack contains ~98 dust in average if you were to disenchant everything. So in avg 1g=1dust and 1 pack=100dust=100g). If you see it this way, the new system is slightly better for even the mid and top tier. Also the mid and top tier would like a random legendary even more considering the duplicate protection. Also, add in the arena thickets (another 120g in value).
For me, I'd say I'm mid, lvl ~175, played a lot less then any other expansion. Got the 2k miniset, 2 heroes (3k g), and i'm still at ~7k profit this expansion. The best I ever had was 10k before and I used to play a lot more. Conclusion: another 10% xp for lvlup nerf would settle this discussion once and for all.
I usually only play to do daily missions, before reward tracking I could get 6K gold, and now I’m with 10K, could be more but I spent 2K in packs after Darkmoon Races
Thanks for the input m8. So with the 2k you spent on the mini-set you made 11,5k this expansion cycle correct? None of that gold was from before and none was spent elsewhere (arenas, packs, etc)?
I did take into account the non-gold material benefits of the reward track, packs, tickets, rares, epics and legends all. I estimated their value at 2,2k g. Now we can disagree on the estimate ofc (note the estimate is for FitB, the DF one is about half that). One thing for sure is that people value things differently, an old player probably doesn't value Phoenix packs much since they already have about all the cards they'd want. Given the popularity of the thread where a player says they won't buy FitB packs much it seems even they are not so hot right now. A player who intends to buy 40 or so packs has little need for the rares we are being given, etc. Again depends on the player but ultimately all would prefer the pure gold equivalent since that lets them do whatever it is they like most.
Another thing to consider is that before we got a few packs to celebrate the launch of new expansions, sometimes legends too (I recall C'thun at the very least) but now these have been rolled into the reward track. It is more sure but we did lose a bit in other areas.
Nonetheless I am glad you posted and shared your thoughts. Seems they are in line with what others have been saying, that they made about 11k without too much effort and that it is markedly better than before.
This player seems to corroborate it as well.
9 wins a day seems very high imo. I do all my daily quests and weeklies and ive come out way ahead on gold even after buying the mini expansion. Going in to this new expansion with over 10k so for me the system is miles better
^samesies.
That all sounds correct. I’m pretty sure I zeroed out my gold balance buying packs at the start the expansion. So 11.5k total gold from this track alone.
Edit: also, FYI I did not buy the premium rewards track just in case you were curious.
In addition to all the posts saying that they got more gold, I must also say, grinding on the track feels SOOOOOO much better than getting that 50-60 gold from winning games to buy one pack a day. The weekly quests in particular are a very welcome addition.
I love you Dreadsteed, I will never disenchant you!
Reward track is horseshit.
I feel like The new reward system is better for people who actually play a lot. I've had more free time this expansion, and play anywhere from 3-10 games of ranked or arena a day. That being said I'm at lvl 174 on the track, I play an arena run every other day and I spent 2k gold for the mini set and I'm at 8200 gold. So as of now I've accumulated way more gold then the old system. nothing wrong with blizzard adopting a model that rewards people who play their game a lot, instead of logging in for 10 mins then leaving.
Just going to confirm this too. I have more gold than I used to get and feel much more engaged with the game than before, due to the weekly quests giving you more motivation to log in every day/week.
In the old days there were many days where I;d log in, re-roll my daily cause it was shit, end up with a different shit daily and just log out again. Now, even if my daily is not great, there's always weeklies to work on (at least early in the week). So then you still play just to get some progress on those.
And sometimes, you get a daily that is good XP, but might not be what you prefer, but you end up doing it anyway, cause you wanted to get progress on your weeklies.
So, more gold, more engagement with the game due to weeklies and I actually get more out of the game cause it persuades me to do things outside of my comfort zone (ie play classes and decks I wouldn't usually).
All in all it's been great, and they have made the reward track have even more side benefits this time, even on the free track. So this expansion should be even better.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
There are so many variables in terms of figuring out whether or not you've come out ahead, it's very hard to generalize. Some of it is, as you state, a function of how much you play. Most analysis suggests that very frequent, hard-core players lose under this system. (If you were bringing in 60 gold for the daily quest PLUS 100 gold for winning 30 games/ day, you are definitely down big under the new system.) In addition, the new system, because it rewards XP primarily for time played rather than wins, no longer rewards fast, aggro decks the way the 10g/ 3 wins system did. So aggro players took a hit, while control players got a boost.
I consider myself a moderate-to-frequent player. Speaking personally, in previous expansions I typically had between 7000 and 8000 gold prior to the next expac coming out. Today, I'm sitting on over 11k, so I'm way ahead (even with spending a good amount of gold on the mini-expansion). I don't THINK I'm spending more time playing than I did before (I'm actually very unhappy with the current meta decks in Standard), but it's certainly possible. Not enough, however, to explain having c. 50% more gold than I used to. So I'm happy with the system.
There is one important factor most people don't realize, grinding levels feels better than grinding 10g per 3 wins, so a lot of players feel like they are getting more gold, but in fact they are just spending more time playing the game.
If you played the same amount you will realize the new system yield approximately the same amount of gold.
Also, don't forget we got like a 37k exp boost on the first rewards track, not sure if we will get another one.
IMHO, the exp amount per level should be reduced by at least 15-25% (which you kind of get from the pass, but you have to pay $$, you see where I am going with this?) in order to make the rewards track feel less of a grindfest after certain levels.
I definitely 100% did not play the game more to the degree that explains the increase in gold. I would have had to play the game some 20% more. (not counting pass xp)
Blizzard just deliberately shifted to a new way of monetizing the game. They;d rather get $20 dollars on the reward track pass from a very great amount of people than $50 dollars from a far smaller group on preorders. And the Reward track pass is a great deal. It pays for itself in extra gold and then you get all the cosmetics and other stuff on top of it.
And then there's the engagement. If people are more engaged with your game, day to day and week to week, they are far more likely to spend actual money on it.
Blizzard just switched to a better way of getting money out of their game, and in return are more than happy to give away more free stuff, since it only helps to create a system where people are mroe engaged with the game and more likely to spend on it.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I’m making more gold now than when I earned 100 gold a day from daily wins, so I’ll take the new system, thanks.
No, that's actually not correct. Again, all the analysis that I've seen has shown that there were winners and losers in the change: very hard-core players lost gold, more casual players gained. You can play exactly the same way you did before and get very different amounts of gold, depending on how much you play and the types of decks you play.
And, again, I'm quite sure I'm not playing more than I used to (I don't have very much free time, except late at night and on weekends) and I'm making more gold than I used to.
And that boost Blizzard gave when it revised the system was designed to get people to roughly where they would have been had the revised system been in place from the outset. So it will not be repeated this expansion.
Yep, definitely making more gold now than with the old system. Made 14k this expansion if I count the 2k I paid for the mini set. I play only ranked in Standard and did not buy the pass.
I did buy the pass, and got miniset for $$. Had a bit more time playing this expansion (made it once to legendary and usually D5. im 8k BG). Now Im sitting at 13k gold (lev 201 on reward track), and its the most i Have ever got (usually pre release I was between 8,5-9,5k),
Level: 164
Gold: 8855 (+2000 for the mini-expansion).
It's about 25% more gold than usual, but I do spend more time on the game as well. What level are most casuals here (just finishing quests, and a few games here and there) at with the battle pass?
If it ends up being 4-5K more gold, I might get it. Otherwise, I'll probably pass.
It's not 5k xp per bonus level. It's 1300-1500.
That means you get another 5-6k gold in the remaining 2 months after completing the track, not the 1550 you estimated.