Hearthpwn

It would be pretty easy to set up an algorithm which states that a player (on a win streak) running X card will not face another player (on a losing streak) running Y card. So a player on an 8 game streak running Acidic Swamp Ooze will not queue against a player running Self-Sharpening Sword.

Now I’m not saying this is the case! I’ve seen no hard evidence that Blizzard are doing anything to even the field outside of MMR which they openly admit. But it would not take hugely complex coding wizardry to implement. 

That the game is rigged is a phenomenon that we all experience but cannot proof since Blizzard with clever algorithms is able to devide the nation into believers and defenders. An excellent position for which devide and rule is invented.

Not opening up how the matchmaking sysytem really works, only issue statements for the masses to believe in, equals the villan to plead innocence and we all rest to believe. That is not how the system of proof works. There is no independent third party to verify its workings.

The matchmaking system is tuned towards the target audience. Their interest must be served. It keeps the game fast, aggressive...mindless: the purpose of all things in HS: maximize packselling serving the vulgar crowd killing skill as sole reason to win games.

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

It would be pretty easy to set up an algorithm which states that a player (on a win streak) running X card will not face another player (on a losing streak) running Y card. So a player on an 8 game streak running Acidic Swamp Ooze will not queue against a player running Self-Sharpening Sword.

Now I’m not saying this is the case! I’ve seen no hard evidence that Blizzard are doing anything to even the field outside of MMR which they openly admit. But it would not take hugely complex coding wizardry to implement. 

 And would it do that for every single card against every single variation of an archetype in every possible win streak scenario? You are talking trillions of possibilities in any given meta. For every match. Yeahhh no.

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

It would be pretty easy to set up an algorithm which states that a player (on a win streak) running X card will not face another player (on a losing streak) running Y card. So a player on an 8 game streak running Acidic Swamp Ooze will not queue against a player running Self-Sharpening Sword.

Now I’m not saying this is the case! I’ve seen no hard evidence that Blizzard are doing anything to even the field outside of MMR which they openly admit. But it would not take hugely complex coding wizardry to implement. 

 And would it do that for every single card against every single variation of an archetype in every possible win streak scenario? You are talking trillions of possibilities in any given meta. For every match. Yeahhh no.

 No. Which us why I never said anything remotely close to that.

There are only a handful of viable decks at any time so it would only need to be done for a handful if cards which would be switched with the changing meta.

Again, I’m not saying this is happening so there’s little need to get you knickers in a twist over it, it’s just an example of a possibly easy method to keep players near 50%.

Quote from host_arnold >>

You are right, there is a blizzard employee assigned to every player. They watch you 24/7 to see what changes you make to your decks and decipher what you are trying to counter. Then they create a deck to counter you and make a new account to match up against you. This is an immoral practice to force pack purchases, blizzard needs to be held accountable!

 - its a simple code to adjust dynamic matchmaking with parameters  ,they already do this for MMR matching right? so they can adjust  by other parameters like deck structure, loosing strike of a player (if you lost 3 you will get better match-up etc.)
i wouldn't be surprised if blizzard apply some rules to retain players or to promote card crafting etc.

Quote from Shed >>

They keep tabs on decks, cards and player winrates and they will pair you up to the perfect opponent to keep your WR balanced. It is like this ever since the game started.

 What about all the people with a better than 50% win rate? 

Or worse, even?

Quote from sQuba >>

Quote from host_arnold >>

You are right, there is a blizzard employee assigned to every player. They watch you 24/7 to see what changes you make to your decks and decipher what you are trying to counter. Then they create a deck to counter you and make a new account to match up against you. This is an immoral practice to force pack purchases, blizzard needs to be held accountable!

 there are algorythms wich decides what will be your chances to win your next game,so your overall to be at 50% , but ofcourse is not the front of the blizzard newspaper cause brain deads like u should stay that way.but if a brain dead like you would read the terms and policy of the company , you would find out that what you are mocking is really happening.enough,go back to sleep now.

 Are there? Care to share these algorithms? Or did you just make that up? 

I would be the first person to condemn any malpractice on fixing games but I've never seen any evidence or a convincing argument to convince me there's anything in this.

It's essentially a bunch of salty people making excuses for losses. People who have no idea how statistics or matchmaking works, who don't understand things such as confirmation bias and who never provide any recording or evidence of what they are talking about.

It's the same as all the other conspiracy theories, lots of talk and assertions, no actual evidence, a victim mentality and a bias/agenda. 

It shows you how basic a shocking number of people's brains work. There's always the same tone and arrogance about the claims and the same writing off as anybody asking for proof as 'in on it' or an employee, a sympathiser etc. Lazy attempts to simply discredit the person raising the questions instead of, you know, providing a good argument with evidence and we'll articulated points.

The fact I've had people ask me, genuinely shocked, that I think it's right to want 'evidence' says it all. When you say that and genuinely think I'm the unreasonable person then there is no point at all in discussing it. 

When you're playing crap decks in gutter ranks its no surprise you'll come across the odd crap deck with low win rate cards. 

If you say that everytime you switch to X deck you no longer face X class anymore, just bang up some deck tracker shots showing a decent sample size and the matchmaking history with a few different decks. If it's an algorithm then someone else can simply replicate that and should then get the same results.

"it can't be just coincidence" 

Yes. It can. That's literally what coincidence is. Just like if I'm really interested in a new car and I've been looking at one specifically that I really like, I go out and look around some dealers and one dealer has a special sale price for the exact car I've been liking at and it happens to be a one day special, that isn't the universe rigging life in my favour, its a fucking coincidence and yet you'll still get idiots saying "but dat so unlikely, me no see how that happen without man in sky controlling". Over millions of games and millions of players you're constantly going to get crazy things that happen, series of events with low odds of occurring etc.

If I play 15 games and don't meet a priest, then switch to priest and mirror with one, that's coincidence. It happens. I've switched to priest many, many, many times and not inendiatley met a mirror, so it's easy for that time to stand out because *shock* it's an unlikely occurrence and therefore stands out far more in my memory than other, much more mundane events. Like I'm never going to remember all the times I switch to priest and match with warrior next. 

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

It would be pretty easy to set up an algorithm which states that a player (on a win streak) running X card will not face another player (on a losing streak) running Y card. So a player on an 8 game streak running Acidic Swamp Ooze will not queue against a player running Self-Sharpening Sword.

Now I’m not saying this is the case! I’ve seen no hard evidence that Blizzard are doing anything to even the field outside of MMR which they openly admit. But it would not take hugely complex coding wizardry to implement. 

 And would it do that for every single card against every single variation of an archetype in every possible win streak scenario? You are talking trillions of possibilities in any given meta. For every match. Yeahhh no.

 No. Which us why I never said anything remotely close to that.

There are only a handful of viable decks at any time so it would only need to be done for a handful if cards which would be switched with the changing meta.

Again, I’m not saying this is happening so there’s little need to get you knickers in a twist over it, it’s just an example of a possibly easy method to keep players near 50%.

 Oooorrrr.... people have a 50% win rate because everybody is trying to win and somebody has to lose each match.

Confirmation bias, shut up.

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

It would be pretty easy to set up an algorithm which states that a player (on a win streak) running X card will not face another player (on a losing streak) running Y card. So a player on an 8 game streak running Acidic Swamp Ooze will not queue against a player running Self-Sharpening Sword.

Now I’m not saying this is the case! I’ve seen no hard evidence that Blizzard are doing anything to even the field outside of MMR which they openly admit. But it would not take hugely complex coding wizardry to implement. 

 And would it do that for every single card against every single variation of an archetype in every possible win streak scenario? You are talking trillions of possibilities in any given meta. For every match. Yeahhh no.

 No. Which us why I never said anything remotely close to that.

There are only a handful of viable decks at any time so it would only need to be done for a handful if cards which would be switched with the changing meta.

Again, I’m not saying this is happening so there’s little need to get you knickers in a twist over it, it’s just an example of a possibly easy method to keep players near 50%.

 Oooorrrr.... people have a 50% win rate because everybody is trying to win and somebody has to lose each match.

 Well no, there has to be an average win rate of 50% across the board but how that is distributed depends on many factors. We know MMR is a factor, we know skill is a factor and we know RNG is a factor (both through card draw and random card generation). Whether Blizzard also use other methods is not known.

Now to reiterate, I’m not arguing with you about what Blizzard definitely  are or are not doing, all I’ve stated is that if Blizzard wanted to fix the matchmaking in order to further bring more players closer to 50% it would be easy for them to do so. I couldn’t care less whether or not you believe they are doing this, it’s irrelevant to my point.

Here is a video which explains pretty well what happens if watch to the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tSqSMOyNFE

If you are facing an unusually high amount of a particular deck, it is actually quite unlikely that it will continue after you change decks.

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Once upon a time, I worked as a debt collector.  We had bets among the collectors about how many busy signals in a row someone could get (I know, I know, it's a boring job).  I won hundreds of dollars on a bet that we'd eventually see a 15 streak, and not only did it happen, it happened several times.

If you don't get the point, stop posting your interpretations of statistics in this forum.

If you do get the point, you'll know that one can experience short-term streaks that defy all logic based on expected values over long-term iterative processes.  In English, that means that if you toss a coin a million times, the results will be fairly close to 500k heads and 500k tails, but that doesn't change the fact that you'll repeatedly see "impossible" streaks of heads and tails in a row.

When you post 14 games, or 40 games for that matter, it's not that it doesn't mean much.  It means absolutely nothing.

This topic has reared its head countless times in this forum . . . and the fact that no one has actually done what it takes to make a statistical argument speaks volumes.  It would not require millions of games, but it WOULD require approximately 2-3 weeks during a relatively stable meta during which many games would have to be played with two decks.  Rejecting a null hypothesis that the matchups are similarly distributed while playing two different decks wouldn't be that difficult if in fact the matchmaking is rigged.  But until someone actually does it, rehashing this with different deck archtypes is contributing nothing.

 Well said. I also think that if the test were going to be accurate, not only would they need to be in a stable meta, but the 2 decks would have to have very similar win rate overall (or even conceding so they are the same) to keep the mmr equal.

 That's correct if you wanted to also test the idea of win rates effecting the mm.  I was just starting with the idea that deck choice does.

This is a recurring theme that has been explained again and again ad nauseam...

It has already been shown that, according to an Activision patent used in Hearthstone with the simple objective of increasing revenue, the matchmaking system for Hearthstone is rigged, it is not random, but is performed by an algorithm that automatically chooses your opponent based on your winrate and the type of deck and cards you are going to play with.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T658vTvoRs clearly explain what this patent consists of and you also have at your disposal this thread where the matter is discussed: https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/246232-an-interesting-video

Bottom line: when you go to play a game, the algorithm used by Blizzard has already decided beforehand whether you should win or lose that game: your fate is already sealed.

The problem are the usual fanboys who refuse to believe the evidence and charge against it, trying to make it appear that everything is our imagination, a coincidence, that the holy Blizzard would never put its financial interests first over the interests of its players.

It has also been explained that that video is filled with lies and unsubstantiated leaps from what is said in the patent to pure fantasy.

If you watch that video and don't spot 30 things that are obviously false, feel free to search post history and find a gigantic point by point reaming of that crap.

ssdsadsadasd

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

It has also been explained that that video is filled with lies and unsubstantiated leaps from what is said in the patent to pure fantasy.

If you watch that video and don't spot 30 things that are obviously false, feel free to search post history and find a gigantic point by point reaming of that crap.

The patent is real and true, nobody can deny that. Its objective is also clear and self-explanatory.

For example, you only have to play Heroes of the Storm and you will know how evident is that this patent is being put into practice.

Now it is up to each one to think if it is possible for Blizzard to make use of that patent in Hearthstone or not... But come on, Blizzard is not known for being greedy at all, is it?

You're lucky if you have faced something unusual. I have faced typical secret mages and kingsbane rogues very much in a row lately. Even they are easy to beat the gameplay is boring. Instant concede after they realise they have no cards left and cant do any more damage, when you have 15 cards left. I win even I haven't even attacked enemy hero. HS is very weird these days...

thought of getting a few pts on my road to hit 1k wins with my DH last night so i queued the otk list for some quick matches... 5 times in a row queued into secret mage (wild btw), like come on ffs, u can say w/e u want, but i'm more than convinced by now of the "randomness" of HS. every1 is free to have their own opinions, mine is that deff there are patterns into the claimed "rng"...

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

It has also been explained that that video is filled with lies and unsubstantiated leaps from what is said in the patent to pure fantasy.

If you watch that video and don't spot 30 things that are obviously false, feel free to search post history and find a gigantic point by point reaming of that crap.

 FWIW, regardless of who was right or wrong, the abuse you got in that thread is borderline psychotic.

Your posts are well written and enjoyable to read.

Quote from Nefiret >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

It has also been explained that that video is filled with lies and unsubstantiated leaps from what is said in the patent to pure fantasy.

If you watch that video and don't spot 30 things that are obviously false, feel free to search post history and find a gigantic point by point reaming of that crap.

The patent is real and true, nobody can deny that. Its objective is also clear and self-explanatory.

For example, you only have to play Heroes of the Storm and you will know how evident is that this patent is being put into practice.

Now it is up to each one to think if it is possible for Blizzard to make use of that patent in Hearthstone or not... But come on, Blizzard is not known for being greedy at all, is it?

 

 Pseudo-intellectual mandarism through organized confusion is a problem in itself. Blizzard has a jezus-status in some eyes and can do no wrong. Even using statistics to defend.