I know this is only Wild stuff, but still. I am terrified at the idea of Crystal Rogue returning, or a 2 mana Blade Flurry.
I like that we get the old cards we love back, but some things should stay as they are. I already have PTSD from Crystal Rogues and I think this isn't gonna end well.
I wouldn't worry too much about blade flurry, the main reason it was used was to push face damage and that part is still absent.
As for the crystal core one of the problems were the small charge minions like boar which is now a rush, there is still the pirate but that one has a slightly higher requirement. Still it can be dangerous against slower midrange decks with little removal, in wild it should not be too much of a problem for aggro or control decks
Quest Rogue, aside from maybe running Vicious Scalehide, has no healing. And they need a turn to play Crystal Core.
Meaning, Secret Mage won't be an easy matchup for Quest Rogue, I think. The other aggressive decks in the format may also burn it down before/shortly after the Quest is complete, like Darkglare and Discard Warlock, Odd Rogue, etc. But Counterspell will be really annoying for Rogues to deal with.
I think, with Quest Rogue there will be a meta shift, but I don't expect it will dominate everything. It might finally push Priest out, since neverending 5/5s might actually prove too much for Priest's 24 discovered board clears. With Priest out, there's more point in playing board focused decks again.
Another possibility: Maybe Dark Pact gets reverted as well. Should Priest get pushed out, Cubelock will be back on the menu. With Cubelock back, it might be more about Combos again.
In the worst case, if Quest Rogue is unstoppable, it will get nerfed again. Complain about Secret Mage all you want, but when a deck gets really out of hand, like with Hysteria, nerfs will happen, and they usually don't even take long.
Btw. Blade Flurry deals no face damage. It might be played in Kingsbane, but it's not the complete obliteration card it used to be.
I can relate to that feeling that you just don't want to see certain decks anymore. I feel the same about Reno decks, to the point I have frequently conceded right away when I saw Priest. But just wait and see what happens. No need to get worked up about it.
Quest Rogue was one of the few cards I was hoping WOULDNT be unnerfed. All that is going to do is encourage broken pen flinger crap and break the mechanic.
And of course Equality gets left of the list. Poor paladin. Class better be getting some damned good draw for the next expansion to stay competitive in either format.
first, revering necrium apothecary is a mistake snce the thing is literally a narrower barnes which means with proper deckbuilding it's way more abusable than OG barnes , but I'll elaborate with the "controversial" cards that i was thinking should've been reverted and are controversial:
The Caverns Below: With the revert it turns intos what it should have been from the start, a cool and interesting card that enables a playstyle thats fairly different to pre-existing ones without being completely ruined by easy and wide availability to the most toxic and uninteresting mechanic that for the longest time of the game's lifespan has gotten more cards nerfed than every other mechanic combined: charge,
With Boar, Patches and Preparation, nerfed, the deck should be at a point where it's worth considering in certain metas without being overly oppressive or dominating because you no longer get suddenly attacked in the face by 4-5 5/5 chargers that cost 1 mana
Blade Flurry was used to push face damage and that was the toxic part with Oil+flurry , the "semi" revert just means it will be used as an AOE instead of a burst tool, yea maybe Kingsbane rogue will find a way where to play it as a 1 of but the hopes are for other archetypes to spark now that they have access to a proper survability tool, Jade rogue? big rogue? deathrattle rogue? anyone?
Galakrond: There are so many Galakrond cards that were nerfed because they were too powerful for standard that never ever made a dent in WIld, Corrupt Elementalist, Scion of Ruin, and fiendish ritual plus the rogue's Galakrond card, if they want wild not to be a myriad of the same 3 decks they should encourage this type of "build over time" cards, ie. Shudderwock is nowhere tier 1 in wild and still sees plenty of play because people like the feeling of progressively advancing their gameplan, and Gaakrond decks are actually fun to play around with.
and last but not least,
Call to Arms : While this card was toxic in standard, If you want Wild paladin to play something other than odd paladin then you give them this card in an even slot, specially because contrary to standard where at 4 mana it was used as an aggro card, in wild this was usually used as either a deck accelerator, to be able to find a Combo faster, in decks featuring Anyfin Can Happen [/card] or [card]Uther of the ebonblade or to give a boost to mid-range decks, yeah, Secret and even pally were viable just because of this card at 4. , well anyfin is no longer around, because bluegill, pretty much the only balanced and fair charge minion ever printed is now a rush minion and the horseman otk with beardo is janky enough to not happen every game, plus a christhmas tree turn with mysterious challenger while still solid is no longer game winning
Quest Rogue was one of the few cards I was hoping WOULDNT be unnerfed. All that is going to do is encourage broken pen flinger crap and break the mechanic.
And of course Equality gets left of the list. Poor paladin. Class better be getting some damned good draw for the next expansion to stay competitive in either format.
Equality did get partially reverted to 3 mana. It wasn't included in the list today because it is staying in standard.
When I heard they were reverting nerfs, I was pretty excited, but the Rogue quest was the one that I was dreading.
Thinking about it some more - I think it's just too slow these days. When you have Aggro Druids that can win turn 3, Secret Mages that draw spells and minions and target face 100% of the time, and Priests and Warlocks that can deal with a full board with ease, I can't see Crystal Core making a dent on the current meta.
However, they have opened pandora's box with this one.
The fact that they unnerfed this, probably the card in Hearthstone with the highest number of nerfs, means that anything is possible.
Honestly guys, I wish you're right. I still have memories of the horrors of Crystal Rogue.
Same here, many of us think quest rogue will break wild. It may force out all non aggro decks out of the meta :(
That's why I feel a little precautious here. It wasn't just the Charge mechanic, but the abiltiy to get multiple 5/5 minions for 1 mana, usually flooding the board each turn. And as far as I remember they had anti-aggro tools inside even then.
The others pretty much covered what I wanted to say, but as long this broken Raza and Dark Knight Anduin exists all are appropriate. The 2 mana blade flurry buff was much needed as rogue didnt see a decent aoe in ages whereas the super aggro Illidan has many already. As for the rogue quest, I think reducing the number of minions required is ok but minions should remain 4/4s imo. I also wish they would unnerf leaching poison.
I'm hoping they nerf penflinger. Bouncing penflinger 3 times for quest sounds absurd. Other than that? No problems.
Actually u just need the pirate bootsailer. U can complete quest on turn 3 with two copies of him or by bouncing it once. Then prep turn 4 quest and start putting 5/5 rush heals on 5. I guess it gets destroyed by secret mage aggro druid odd paladin pirate warrior and maybe even big priest if they roll their palmreading into essence into big ass taunts
Big Priest is a good example to compare how 'broken' or not quest rogue can be. Let's say you draw the nuts and have the 1/1 pirate + shadowstep, or pen flinger + cheap spells and you are able to complete the quest by t3 and even play it with prep on t4. Will the 5/5s be able to match the stats that big priest can cheat if they can cheat out a Shadow Essence on t5 (which happens quite often)?
I know this is only Wild stuff, but still. I am terrified at the idea of Crystal Rogue returning, or a 2 mana Blade Flurry.
I like that we get the old cards we love back, but some things should stay as they are. I already have PTSD from Crystal Rogues and I think this isn't gonna end well.
Am I the only one?
Yes you are, i'd rather play rogues all day than priests and mages.
I'm hoping they nerf penflinger. Bouncing penflinger 3 times for quest sounds absurd. Other than that? No problems.
Don't let your memes be dreams.
I wouldn't worry too much about blade flurry, the main reason it was used was to push face damage and that part is still absent.
As for the crystal core one of the problems were the small charge minions like boar which is now a rush, there is still the pirate but that one has a slightly higher requirement. Still it can be dangerous against slower midrange decks with little removal, in wild it should not be too much of a problem for aggro or control decks
Quest Rogue, aside from maybe running Vicious Scalehide, has no healing. And they need a turn to play Crystal Core.
Meaning, Secret Mage won't be an easy matchup for Quest Rogue, I think. The other aggressive decks in the format may also burn it down before/shortly after the Quest is complete, like Darkglare and Discard Warlock, Odd Rogue, etc. But Counterspell will be really annoying for Rogues to deal with.
I think, with Quest Rogue there will be a meta shift, but I don't expect it will dominate everything. It might finally push Priest out, since neverending 5/5s might actually prove too much for Priest's 24 discovered board clears. With Priest out, there's more point in playing board focused decks again.
Another possibility: Maybe Dark Pact gets reverted as well. Should Priest get pushed out, Cubelock will be back on the menu. With Cubelock back, it might be more about Combos again.
In the worst case, if Quest Rogue is unstoppable, it will get nerfed again. Complain about Secret Mage all you want, but when a deck gets really out of hand, like with Hysteria, nerfs will happen, and they usually don't even take long.
Btw. Blade Flurry deals no face damage. It might be played in Kingsbane, but it's not the complete obliteration card it used to be.
I can relate to that feeling that you just don't want to see certain decks anymore. I feel the same about Reno decks, to the point I have frequently conceded right away when I saw Priest. But just wait and see what happens. No need to get worked up about it.
"am I the only one"
Yes you are. Secret mage is so strong that I don't think that quest rogue will be played. Anyway, I will.
Caverns below was tier 3 in wild even before it was nerfed. That won’t change, and it might not even be tier 3 with the loss of boar
Quest Rogue was one of the few cards I was hoping WOULDNT be unnerfed. All that is going to do is encourage broken pen flinger crap and break the mechanic.
And of course Equality gets left of the list. Poor paladin. Class better be getting some damned good draw for the next expansion to stay competitive in either format.
Yes you are Sort of the only one,
first, revering necrium apothecary is a mistake snce the thing is literally a narrower barnes which means with proper deckbuilding it's way more abusable than OG barnes , but I'll elaborate with the "controversial" cards that i was thinking should've been reverted and are controversial:
The Caverns Below: With the revert it turns intos what it should have been from the start, a cool and interesting card that enables a playstyle thats fairly different to pre-existing ones without being completely ruined by easy and wide availability to the most toxic and uninteresting mechanic that for the longest time of the game's lifespan has gotten more cards nerfed than every other mechanic combined: charge,
With Boar, Patches and Preparation, nerfed, the deck should be at a point where it's worth considering in certain metas without being overly oppressive or dominating because you no longer get suddenly attacked in the face by 4-5 5/5 chargers that cost 1 mana
Blade Flurry was used to push face damage and that was the toxic part with Oil+flurry , the "semi" revert just means it will be used as an AOE instead of a burst tool, yea maybe Kingsbane rogue will find a way where to play it as a 1 of but the hopes are for other archetypes to spark now that they have access to a proper survability tool, Jade rogue? big rogue? deathrattle rogue? anyone?
Galakrond: There are so many Galakrond cards that were nerfed because they were too powerful for standard that never ever made a dent in WIld, Corrupt Elementalist, Scion of Ruin, and fiendish ritual plus the rogue's Galakrond card, if they want wild not to be a myriad of the same 3 decks they should encourage this type of "build over time" cards, ie. Shudderwock is nowhere tier 1 in wild and still sees plenty of play because people like the feeling of progressively advancing their gameplan, and Gaakrond decks are actually fun to play around with.
and last but not least,
Call to Arms : While this card was toxic in standard, If you want Wild paladin to play something other than odd paladin then you give them this card in an even slot, specially because contrary to standard where at 4 mana it was used as an aggro card, in wild this was usually used as either a deck accelerator, to be able to find a Combo faster, in decks featuring Anyfin Can Happen [/card] or [card]Uther of the ebonblade or to give a boost to mid-range decks, yeah, Secret and even pally were viable just because of this card at 4. , well anyfin is no longer around, because bluegill, pretty much the only balanced and fair charge minion ever printed is now a rush minion and the horseman otk with beardo is janky enough to not happen every game, plus a christhmas tree turn with mysterious challenger while still solid is no longer game winning
Equality did get partially reverted to 3 mana. It wasn't included in the list today because it is staying in standard.
Don't let your memes be dreams.
Honestly guys, I wish you're right. I still have memories of the horrors of Crystal Rogue.
I was.
When I heard they were reverting nerfs, I was pretty excited, but the Rogue quest was the one that I was dreading.
Thinking about it some more - I think it's just too slow these days. When you have Aggro Druids that can win turn 3, Secret Mages that draw spells and minions and target face 100% of the time, and Priests and Warlocks that can deal with a full board with ease, I can't see Crystal Core making a dent on the current meta.
However, they have opened pandora's box with this one.
The fact that they unnerfed this, probably the card in Hearthstone with the highest number of nerfs, means that anything is possible.
I'm in Charge now... Patches the Pirate
Same here, many of us think quest rogue will break wild. It may force out all non aggro decks out of the meta :(
That's why I feel a little precautious here. It wasn't just the Charge mechanic, but the abiltiy to get multiple 5/5 minions for 1 mana, usually flooding the board each turn. And as far as I remember they had anti-aggro tools inside even then.
The others pretty much covered what I wanted to say, but as long this broken Raza and Dark Knight Anduin exists all are appropriate. The 2 mana blade flurry buff was much needed as rogue didnt see a decent aoe in ages whereas the super aggro Illidan has many already. As for the rogue quest, I think reducing the number of minions required is ok but minions should remain 4/4s imo. I also wish they would unnerf leaching poison.
I really don't think thats the case. Aggro is too dominant in Wild
Actually u just need the pirate bootsailer. U can complete quest on turn 3 with two copies of him or by bouncing it once. Then prep turn 4 quest and start putting 5/5 rush heals on 5. I guess it gets destroyed by secret mage aggro druid odd paladin pirate warrior and maybe even big priest if they roll their palmreading into essence into big ass taunts
Big Priest is a good example to compare how 'broken' or not quest rogue can be. Let's say you draw the nuts and have the 1/1 pirate + shadowstep, or pen flinger + cheap spells and you are able to complete the quest by t3 and even play it with prep on t4. Will the 5/5s be able to match the stats that big priest can cheat if they can cheat out a Shadow Essence on t5 (which happens quite often)?
I mean thats a wild players problem now. They are all powerful haha. Synergy after Synergy. I'm here in my little standard bubble.