He posted his evidence did he not? Which is why I say it’s pointless to even argue against people who just don’t care no matter what the circumstance. You’re no better than people who label people names in this case “conspiracist!” Simply because you disagree. Legit thousands of people believe this game is rigged. The game has changed immensely the last few years when Blizzard started making these bs 50 percent comments. So you believe you can go to the moon but you don’t believe you can rig a game? Lol that’s funny. And it’s not just plebs who think the game is rigged. So do the “pros”. Tell me why have all name players left? Saying the same argument us “conspiracy theorists” have said? It started with Pavel and continues to decline. No one in there right mind would think this game has an ounce of skill to it. Because it doesn’t. So how about YOU tell us how it’s not. How about YOU look at the evidence and tell us why it’s NOT rigged. And what the explanation is for consistent rigging in everything single mode is then if it’s not just that rigging. Because all you people do is tell “BuT WHerE R TEh PRoOVfs!?” With giving nothing more then “tehhe” you guys or so small brained. When it reality it’s all of you shills. Your job to prove to us instead of pity insults. Simply put up or shut up
Not sure who you think said they CAN'T rig a game, but since you asked, no, he did not post evidence.
Also, I haven't seen anyone claim the game isn't rigged. I just see people correctly stating you have no idea whether it is or not, and I'm saying that given how easy it would be to prove, I have a feeling it isn't just because someone would have been tenacious enough to prove it if it was true.
Of course, the next phase is to say something like, "no one has done it because they know you would just say they haven't done it". Well, that would carry some weight if it had even once happened before, but since it hasn't, someone go be the first to make a statistical argument and we'll see.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
He posted his evidence did he not? Which is why I say it’s pointless to even argue against people who just don’t care no matter what the circumstance. You’re no better than people who label people names in this case “conspiracist!” Simply because you disagree. Legit thousands of people believe this game is rigged. The game has changed immensely the last few years when Blizzard started making these bs 50 percent comments. So you believe you can go to the moon but you don’t believe you can rig a game? Lol that’s funny. And it’s not just plebs who think the game is rigged. So do the “pros”. Tell me why have all name players left? Saying the same argument us “conspiracy theorists” have said? It started with Pavel and continues to decline. No one in there right mind would think this game has an ounce of skill to it. Because it doesn’t. So how about YOU tell us how it’s not. How about YOU look at the evidence and tell us why it’s NOT rigged. And what the explanation is for consistent rigging in everything single mode is then if it’s not just that rigging. Because all you people do is tell “BuT WHerE R TEh PRoOVfs!?” With giving nothing more then “tehhe” you guys or so small brained. When it reality it’s all of you shills. Your job to prove to us instead of pity insults. Simply put up or shut up
An anecdote of a very small number of games is not evidence. Never said game wasn’t rigged. Definitely could be, and would make me stop playing hearthstone if it was rigged this way the OP claims. I said that the specific way the OP claims it is rigged has not been proven, which it hasn’t. Just because some hotshots make a claim doesn’t give it more weight. Plenty of famous people have said things that aren’t true, wouldn’t be difficult to prove that. And as I’ve said before, the burden of proof lies in the accuser. Innocent until proven guilty. It’s not my job to prove the innocence of hearthstone, it’s the accuser’s job to prove it is guilty. I like how you called us small brained when you literally misspelled “are” the word before it and have punctuation, spelling, and grammar errors everywhere in your post. And also, if this game doesn’t even have an ounce of skill to it, maybe you should try playing actually difficult decks like mill rogue and not autopilot decks.
It’s called intuition. There is no man behind the curtain pulling the rng levers. Because that’s not how it works. Creator of this thread posted his data. So what’s the issue? As well as other countless stories along with my own experience in this game. So I should deny what I see and my own personal experience because why? Because Blizzard doesn’t investigate themselves Because there’s no whistle blower? Open secrets don’t matter. Plenty of open secrets and nothing is done because even if there was a whistle blower people will still play and buy into this stupid game. Because that’s how bad the player base is. And it elevates those people so the system only benefits them. If you don’t buy into it that’s kool not saying you have to because you don’t. But denying reality is silly. And like someone who replied to me before the best they can do is call me a sheep? Lol a person towing the company line calling someone else a sheep. Irony.
It’s called intuition. There is no man behind the curtain pulling the rng levers. Because that’s not how it works. Creator of this thread posted his data. So what’s the issue? As well as other countless stories along with my own experience in this game. So I should deny what I see and my own personal experience because why? Because Blizzard doesn’t investigate themselves Because there’s no whistle blower? Open secrets don’t matter. Plenty of open secrets and nothing is done because even if there was a whistle blower people will still play and buy into this stupid game. Because that’s how bad the player base is. And it elevates those people so the system only benefits them. If you don’t buy into it that’s kool not saying you have to because you don’t. But denying reality is silly. And like someone who replied to me before the best they can do is call me a sheep? Lol a person towing the company line calling someone else a sheep. Irony.
The OP’s “data” is not controlled whatsoever so can be discarded. Mmr tanked and then didn’t face good decks anymore, unsurprisingly. It’s common knowledge that if you lose a lot, you will play worse opponents with worse decks. Personal experience is flawed and skewed to fit your own narrative because you will discount any evidence that shows otherwise. You are denying reality by ignoring the mmr system in place and yes you are a sheep because you buy into the same philosophy as everyone else that believes the game is rigged because you suck at reading the meta.
Simple explanation. Once you conceded a bunch of times and tanked your mmr completely (which might have not been very high to begin with), you started queueing into people who actually want to have fun, and not win at any cost.
We don't know exactly how the MMR calculations work but it doesn't seem as responsive as that. I didn't play for a whole season and when I next logged in I'd only lost 1 star of bonus.
Who’s the one being the Blizzard shill? Lol you act as if they have the players best interest in mind. No, there job is to make money. Good product or not. Hell everyone got mad for a week about The China thing then all the fanboys went back to pumping money back anyway. Because they know the people behind the cash are stupid and will do so no matter what. And that’s just one example of Blizzard being assholes. And they keep doing it because they are never held responsible. They don’t care. As long as people pump money in as long as it doesn’t affect that you think they care? Op’s point was proven correct. You put xyz anti mage cards and look at that he plays none. His point is with match making. How hard is this to understand? What appears to be your argument of being objective is stupid. What you need guys in lab coats to do that? Countless number of people have the same results but because it’s not no “controlled study” it doesn’t count? As I said I try to convince people like you of nothing. I don’t care to. Because as I said and you prove my point. Nothing will change your mind otherwise. It’ll always be some excuse. Well theres no study. Well it’s not objective. Well Blizzard would never do that. Well if that’s the case someone would’ve come out and said something. Or maybe you’re just retarded. It’s always something and it’s never enough. If evidence is not “evidence” in your mind then I don’t know what to tell you. If you don’t want to live in the real world that’s kool don’t. But that’s why this game will never get better. Because I’m sure your’e one who dumps money for good rng like every other baddie. And the best zinger you can come up with is I misspelled a word. Dang you really got me there dood. And as far as the meta goes let’s see. Ten different classes and I’m suppose to have a deck that has no bad matchups. And in your eyes all peoples loses that are to opponents top decks, discovered cards that win the game or at least completely turn the tide. As well as drawing shit is just massive skill and outplay right? Let alone the first two represent about 95 percent of my losses. As well as others loss experience as well. Again I don’t care if you believe people who believe as I do. But you are very clearly hell bent on making sure we know we are “conspiracy theorists” because our evidence is only “evidence” if you deem it worth of such mr judge and jury! Maybe I should be asking to see your law license going off your ideology! And your sides opinions clearly outweigh us plebs! Lol please you have no counter argument at all that isn’t completely hallow and based in YOUR own bias and YOUR subjective view of yourself that you must be right and those who disagree are stupid. Get over yourself guy. But go ahead and lecture me for my subjective views as well as others here. As your subjective views are actually objective and your views according to you are correct. Because YOU say so That’s what real proof is. Whatever you say it is :)
Who’s the one being the Blizzard shill? Lol you act as if they have the players best interest in mind. No, there job is to make money. Good product or not. Hell everyone got mad for a week about The China thing then all the fanboys went back to pumping money back anyway. Because they know the people behind the cash are stupid and will do so no matter what. And that’s just one example of Blizzard being assholes. And they keep doing it because they are never held responsible. They don’t care. As long as people pump money in as long as it doesn’t affect that you think they care? Op’s point was proven correct. You put xyz anti mage cards and look at that he plays none. His point is with match making. How hard is this to understand? What appears to be your argument of being objective is stupid. What you need guys in lab coats to do that? Countless number of people have the same results but because it’s not no “controlled study” it doesn’t count? As I said I try to convince people like you of nothing. I don’t care to. Because as I said and you prove my point. Nothing will change your mind otherwise. It’ll always be some excuse. Well theres no study. Well it’s not objective. Well Blizzard would never do that. Well if that’s the case someone would’ve come out and said something. Or maybe you’re just ********. It’s always something and it’s never enough. If evidence is not “evidence” in your mind then I don’t know what to tell you. If you don’t want to live in the real world that’s kool don’t. But that’s why this game will never get better. Because I’m sure your’e one who dumps money for good rng like every other baddie. And the best zinger you can come up with is I misspelled a word. Dang you really got me there dood. And as far as the meta goes let’s see. Ten different classes and I’m suppose to have a deck that has no bad matchups. And in your eyes all peoples loses that are to opponents top decks, discovered cards that win the game or at least completely turn the tide. As well as drawing shit is just massive skill and outplay right? Let alone the first two represent about 95 percent of my losses. As well as others loss experience as well. Again I don’t care if you believe people who believe as I do. But you are very clearly hell bent on making sure we know we are “conspiracy theorists” because our evidence is only “evidence” if you deem it worth of such mr judge and jury! Maybe I should be asking to see your law license going off your ideology! And your sides opinions clearly outweigh us plebs! Lol please you have no counter argument at all that isn’t completely hallow and based in YOUR own bias and YOUR subjective view of yourself that you must be right and those who disagree are stupid. Get over yourself guy. But go ahead and lecture me for my subjective views as well as others here. As your subjective views are actually objective and your views according to you are correct. Because YOU say so That’s what real proof is. Whatever you say it is :)
Haven’t spent a dime on packs since knights of the frozen throne. And no, there are counterexamples that prove this data wrong EVERYWHERE, even in this post. “Data” has to be in a controlled environment. A controlled environment would mean doing opposite tests on 2 different accounts with equal mmr and conceding every game to keep the mmr the same. It wouldn’t be difficult to do. This is just an example of someone doing their own anecdotal test and not knowing how mmr works and thinking that the match making is rigged because they don’t get the results they want. Not only did he not face secret mage, he didn’t face any meta decks hardly at all. It happens all the time. Same happens with the reverse. If you are losing a lot, then start winning a lot, you will face better decks. People also say the matchmaking is rigged to be 50% win rate, but if your deck is built to beat secret mage and nothing else, how can it get 50% win rate without facing secret mage? Which theory is correct? You clearly are at an elementary level of logic so it is useless to even address the rest of your text because it’s a tangent and irrelevant, just personally attacking me because that’s the best argument you can come up with. Thank you, mr. ad hominem fallacy.
I finally got my 12 ranked wins in a row achievement. That's after six or 7 times of being at 11 wins in a row. Almost as if Blizzard makes it harder to get the 12th win.
Oh wait no, because that would be equally true for the 11th.
My bad, I generalized my anecdotal experience into some broad-based conclusion I have no actual evidence for. I'm very sorry.
P.s. I really did get the 12 wins in a row thing. That was a nail-biting 12th game.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I finally got my 12 ranked wins in a row achievement. That's after six or 7 times of being at 11 wins in a row. Almost as if Blizzard makes it harder to get the 12th win.
Oh wait no, because that would be equally true for the 11th.
My bad, I generalized my anecdotal experience into some broad-based conclusion I have no actual evidence for. I'm very sorry.
P.s. I really did get the 12 wins in a row thing. That was a nail-biting 12th game.
Hey, congrats on that.
I almost believed you to be a regular, tin-foil hat wearing forum dweller there for a second.
I played a game earlier and my opponent topdecked lethal. Game is busted, yo.
Never mind all the times that I did that to my opponent, that's not important.
lol . . . I lost a game . . . FUCKING RIGGED CONFIRMED!
After that 12th game, I lost the next one. Clearly Blizzard rigged the game so that it's impossible to win 13 in a row.
I switched decks and lost a game. Clearly Blizzard rigs the game so that you're punished for changing decks.
Hey this is fun . . .
EDIT: Though I'm obviously just having a bit of fun here, sarcasm is best when also parody. And I've been told I need to become more succinct, so the statements above are short and sweet versions of the past 3 pages.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's scary to see people still insisting it's fact. Besides, when you say "rhetorical tactic", you mean sharing anecdotes as evidence? Yeah, I hate when people employ that rhetorical tactic.
At least in the other thread on this exact topic, some folks are finally admitting they don't care about reality; that they are just expressing their perception. I think that's a ridiculous way to live life, but that's their business.
But what actually is funny is that despite all statements to the contrary, the closest I've come to expressing a guess (not an opinion, this is reality we're talking about) on the rigging controversy is to say that I think it's likely not rigged just based on how easy it would be to prove if it was. That plus the fact that I've never seen anything myself that jives with the stories these folks tell.
My point has never been that the system isn't rigged. My point is we have no idea whether it is or not because no one has done the work to know for sure, and the "evidence" people use isn't evidence.
This is the part of these threads that always interests me, though. Since no one has actually risen to the challenge of putting in the work to show what they say is true, after the flurry of interest in the first page or two, the remaining folks settle into one of three paths. It used to be that either the moderator closes the thread when things get too off topic or a Post 58 happens, which is the "rhetorical tactic" of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and trying desperately not to hear anything counter to the narrative. Now, as I said above, some folks are picking the more live and let live approach of the relativist (I perceive my reality, you perceive yours). Time will tell if they actually live up to the "you perceive yours" part or if they just start insulting people again at the next merry-go-round on this topic.
In case anyone is tempted to do the, "it's not like you proved anything either" schtick, I have to say that's mostly true. I just got 12 wins in a row, there's only been 3 or 4 months I haven't hit legend, when I experience a run of bad matchups, I do my best to win them anyway and don't look for external scapegoats for my failings . . . in short, I don't see there's much to prove. Furthermore, you can't really prove a negative (there's not a rigorous way to prove something is NOT rigged mathematically). The closest you can come is to run the experiment in reverse and see if it fails. Statistics can only get you as close as the statement "I cannot be 90/95/99% confident in rejecting the hypothesis that the matchmaking system is random with respect to deck selection", and if I were to write that, however correct it may be, someone would just say I was hedging or misleading.
Tl;DR I've used statistical tactics, point by point breakdowns of evidence or lack thereof, etc etc, it all gets ignored equally.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It’s ok y’all you guys are clearly smarter and brighter than us! Proving our point that whatever we say you and show you you will find a reason to deny because you all are 200 iq big brainz. Or maybe just masochists who love the feel and taste of blizzards boot :)
I came back to the game when the achievement system got here and, starting from bronze 5 without any star bonus, won my first 14 games in a row. I lost once, then won another several games in a row.
If Blizzard is truly rigging the system, explain that!!
See, people who get a high winstreak don't complain about rigged matchmaking. People who get a high losstreak do. Both of these situations should be equally common, but you don't really hear people getting winstreaks as often, so people fail to see the survivorship bias and think it's rigged to make everyone lose.
And besides, do you know how much effort it would be to program something specifically to look at your deck, decide what it's weak against, and pair you against it? Also why weren't secret mages paired against OP's anti-secret deck?
I came back to the game when the achievement system got here and, starting from bronze 5 without any star bonus, won my first 14 games in a row. I lost once, then won another several games in a row.
If Blizzard is truly rigging the system, explain that!!
See, people who get a high winstreak don't complain about rigged matchmaking. People who get a high losstreak do. Both of these situations should be equally common, but you don't really hear people getting winstreaks as often, so people fail to see the survivorship bias and think it's rigged to make everyone lose.
And besides, do you know how much effort it would be to program something specifically to look at your deck, decide what it's weak against, and pair you against it? Also why weren't secret mages paired against OP's anti-secret deck?
It has often been stated that blizzard's algorithms are designed to promote player retention. When you start again after a long layoff it would logically follow that you would be fed good RNG to entice you to come back to the game.
I came back to the game when the achievement system got here and, starting from bronze 5 without any star bonus, won my first 14 games in a row. I lost once, then won another several games in a row.
If Blizzard is truly rigging the system, explain that!!
See, people who get a high winstreak don't complain about rigged matchmaking. People who get a high losstreak do. Both of these situations should be equally common, but you don't really hear people getting winstreaks as often, so people fail to see the survivorship bias and think it's rigged to make everyone lose.
And besides, do you know how much effort it would be to program something specifically to look at your deck, decide what it's weak against, and pair you against it? Also why weren't secret mages paired against OP's anti-secret deck?
It has often been stated that blizzard's algorithms are designed to promote player retention. When you start again after a long layoff it would logically follow that you would be fed good RNG to entice you to come back to the game.
And yet again, the idea that new player accounts enjoy more advantageous matchmaking for a time and then lose it is an even EASIER thing to test than the anti-weapon tech theory. So if it's true . . . someone show it.
@Poison
Honestly, I have no idea whether these people are equally/less/more intelligent as/than me because it's hard to tell how much effort and thought anyone is putting into their posts. When folks post videos that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand and claim they prove something they don't even talk about, I don't take that as a sign of lack of intelligence. I take it as a sign that the person is a bold-faced wanton liar. People who do stuff like that are much worse than dumb. They just gamble that the rest of the audience will take their word while either knowing they're lying or recklessly disregarding the truth.
As for some of the arguments put forward, again, it's one or the other. Either they genuinely are less intelligent, or FAR worse (in my book), they are deliberately dishonest to make a point. That's the ultimate irony at work here. You say something like "hee hee you must like the taste of Blizzard's boot" because I'm allegedly defending Blizzard (which I'm not), but you've got a group of other people who are willing to completely abandon every ounce of honesty over a video game.
Think what you will about me, I have never once misrepresented what I thought to be the truth. I'm as capable of getting something wrong as the next guy, but I'm not going to lie just to be on the "good" side.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I came back to the game when the achievement system got here and, starting from bronze 5 without any star bonus, won my first 14 games in a row. I lost once, then won another several games in a row.
If Blizzard is truly rigging the system, explain that!!
See, people who get a high winstreak don't complain about rigged matchmaking. People who get a high losstreak do. Both of these situations should be equally common, but you don't really hear people getting winstreaks as often, so people fail to see the survivorship bias and think it's rigged to make everyone lose.
And besides, do you know how much effort it would be to program something specifically to look at your deck, decide what it's weak against, and pair you against it? Also why weren't secret mages paired against OP's anti-secret deck?
It has often been stated that blizzard's algorithms are designed to promote player retention. When you start again after a long layoff it would logically follow that you would be fed good RNG to entice you to come back to the game.
Lowering a returning players mmr is a pretty normal thing, if you consider routine and recent meta experience as skill defining. That's not rigging the game, but overcompensation in the match making. Unless we're actually dealing with in-game RNG skewing, which none of us can prove in this case.
I came back to the game when the achievement system got here and, starting from bronze 5 without any star bonus, won my first 14 games in a row. I lost once, then won another several games in a row.
If Blizzard is truly rigging the system, explain that!!
See, people who get a high winstreak don't complain about rigged matchmaking. People who get a high losstreak do. Both of these situations should be equally common, but you don't really hear people getting winstreaks as often, so people fail to see the survivorship bias and think it's rigged to make everyone lose.
And besides, do you know how much effort it would be to program something specifically to look at your deck, decide what it's weak against, and pair you against it? Also why weren't secret mages paired against OP's anti-secret deck?
It has often been stated that blizzard's algorithms are designed to promote player retention. When you start again after a long layoff it would logically follow that you would be fed good RNG to entice you to come back to the game.
Lowering a returning players mmr is a pretty normal thing, if you consider routine and recent meta experience as skill defining. That's not rigging the game, but overcompensation in the match making. Unless we're actually dealing with in-game RNG skewing, which none of us can prove in this case.
Tomato/Tomato....................and with the insane amount of RNG in the game now, tracking all the different variables sounds like quite a bit of work. We know from cards like zephrys that top decks and discovers can be weighted to help one player or the other in a given game. My contention has always been that blizzard is perfectly capable of rigging their game, They have financial incentive to do so, they guard the data so that it is hard to investigate which leads a reasonable person to conclude the game is likely to be rigged.
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He posted his evidence did he not? Which is why I say it’s pointless to even argue against people who just don’t care no matter what the circumstance. You’re no better than people who label people names in this case “conspiracist!” Simply because you disagree. Legit thousands of people believe this game is rigged. The game has changed immensely the last few years when Blizzard started making these bs 50 percent comments. So you believe you can go to the moon but you don’t believe you can rig a game? Lol that’s funny. And it’s not just plebs who think the game is rigged. So do the “pros”. Tell me why have all name players left? Saying the same argument us “conspiracy theorists” have said? It started with Pavel and continues to decline. No one in there right mind would think this game has an ounce of skill to it. Because it doesn’t. So how about YOU tell us how it’s not. How about YOU look at the evidence and tell us why it’s NOT rigged. And what the explanation is for consistent rigging in everything single mode is then if it’s not just that rigging. Because all you people do is tell “BuT WHerE R TEh PRoOVfs!?” With giving nothing more then “tehhe” you guys or so small brained. When it reality it’s all of you shills. Your job to prove to us instead of pity insults. Simply put up or shut up
Not sure who you think said they CAN'T rig a game, but since you asked, no, he did not post evidence.
Also, I haven't seen anyone claim the game isn't rigged. I just see people correctly stating you have no idea whether it is or not, and I'm saying that given how easy it would be to prove, I have a feeling it isn't just because someone would have been tenacious enough to prove it if it was true.
Of course, the next phase is to say something like, "no one has done it because they know you would just say they haven't done it". Well, that would carry some weight if it had even once happened before, but since it hasn't, someone go be the first to make a statistical argument and we'll see.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
An anecdote of a very small number of games is not evidence. Never said game wasn’t rigged. Definitely could be, and would make me stop playing hearthstone if it was rigged this way the OP claims. I said that the specific way the OP claims it is rigged has not been proven, which it hasn’t. Just because some hotshots make a claim doesn’t give it more weight. Plenty of famous people have said things that aren’t true, wouldn’t be difficult to prove that. And as I’ve said before, the burden of proof lies in the accuser. Innocent until proven guilty. It’s not my job to prove the innocence of hearthstone, it’s the accuser’s job to prove it is guilty. I like how you called us small brained when you literally misspelled “are” the word before it and have punctuation, spelling, and grammar errors everywhere in your post. And also, if this game doesn’t even have an ounce of skill to it, maybe you should try playing actually difficult decks like mill rogue and not autopilot decks.
It’s called intuition. There is no man behind the curtain pulling the rng levers. Because that’s not how it works. Creator of this thread posted his data. So what’s the issue? As well as other countless stories along with my own experience in this game. So I should deny what I see and my own personal experience because why? Because Blizzard doesn’t investigate themselves Because there’s no whistle blower? Open secrets don’t matter. Plenty of open secrets and nothing is done because even if there was a whistle blower people will still play and buy into this stupid game. Because that’s how bad the player base is. And it elevates those people so the system only benefits them. If you don’t buy into it that’s kool not saying you have to because you don’t. But denying reality is silly. And like someone who replied to me before the best they can do is call me a sheep? Lol a person towing the company line calling someone else a sheep. Irony.
The OP’s “data” is not controlled whatsoever so can be discarded. Mmr tanked and then didn’t face good decks anymore, unsurprisingly. It’s common knowledge that if you lose a lot, you will play worse opponents with worse decks. Personal experience is flawed and skewed to fit your own narrative because you will discount any evidence that shows otherwise. You are denying reality by ignoring the mmr system in place and yes you are a sheep because you buy into the same philosophy as everyone else that believes the game is rigged because you suck at reading the meta.
We don't know exactly how the MMR calculations work but it doesn't seem as responsive as that. I didn't play for a whole season and when I next logged in I'd only lost 1 star of bonus.
Who’s the one being the Blizzard shill? Lol you act as if they have the players best interest in mind. No, there job is to make money. Good product or not. Hell everyone got mad for a week about The China thing then all the fanboys went back to pumping money back anyway. Because they know the people behind the cash are stupid and will do so no matter what. And that’s just one example of Blizzard being assholes. And they keep doing it because they are never held responsible. They don’t care. As long as people pump money in as long as it doesn’t affect that you think they care? Op’s point was proven correct. You put xyz anti mage cards and look at that he plays none. His point is with match making. How hard is this to understand? What appears to be your argument of being objective is stupid. What you need guys in lab coats to do that? Countless number of people have the same results but because it’s not no “controlled study” it doesn’t count? As I said I try to convince people like you of nothing. I don’t care to. Because as I said and you prove my point. Nothing will change your mind otherwise. It’ll always be some excuse. Well theres no study. Well it’s not objective. Well Blizzard would never do that. Well if that’s the case someone would’ve come out and said something. Or maybe you’re just retarded. It’s always something and it’s never enough. If evidence is not “evidence” in your mind then I don’t know what to tell you. If you don’t want to live in the real world that’s kool don’t. But that’s why this game will never get better. Because I’m sure your’e one who dumps money for good rng like every other baddie. And the best zinger you can come up with is I misspelled a word. Dang you really got me there dood. And as far as the meta goes let’s see. Ten different classes and I’m suppose to have a deck that has no bad matchups. And in your eyes all peoples loses that are to opponents top decks, discovered cards that win the game or at least completely turn the tide. As well as drawing shit is just massive skill and outplay right? Let alone the first two represent about 95 percent of my losses. As well as others loss experience as well. Again I don’t care if you believe people who believe as I do. But you are very clearly hell bent on making sure we know we are “conspiracy theorists” because our evidence is only “evidence” if you deem it worth of such mr judge and jury! Maybe I should be asking to see your law license going off your ideology! And your sides opinions clearly outweigh us plebs! Lol please you have no counter argument at all that isn’t completely hallow and based in YOUR own bias and YOUR subjective view of yourself that you must be right and those who disagree are stupid. Get over yourself guy. But go ahead and lecture me for my subjective views as well as others here. As your subjective views are actually objective and your views according to you are correct. Because YOU say so That’s what real proof is. Whatever you say it is :)
Haven’t spent a dime on packs since knights of the frozen throne. And no, there are counterexamples that prove this data wrong EVERYWHERE, even in this post. “Data” has to be in a controlled environment. A controlled environment would mean doing opposite tests on 2 different accounts with equal mmr and conceding every game to keep the mmr the same. It wouldn’t be difficult to do. This is just an example of someone doing their own anecdotal test and not knowing how mmr works and thinking that the match making is rigged because they don’t get the results they want. Not only did he not face secret mage, he didn’t face any meta decks hardly at all. It happens all the time. Same happens with the reverse. If you are losing a lot, then start winning a lot, you will face better decks. People also say the matchmaking is rigged to be 50% win rate, but if your deck is built to beat secret mage and nothing else, how can it get 50% win rate without facing secret mage? Which theory is correct? You clearly are at an elementary level of logic so it is useless to even address the rest of your text because it’s a tangent and irrelevant, just personally attacking me because that’s the best argument you can come up with. Thank you, mr. ad hominem fallacy.
I finally got my 12 ranked wins in a row achievement. That's after six or 7 times of being at 11 wins in a row. Almost as if Blizzard makes it harder to get the 12th win.
Oh wait no, because that would be equally true for the 11th.
My bad, I generalized my anecdotal experience into some broad-based conclusion I have no actual evidence for. I'm very sorry.
P.s. I really did get the 12 wins in a row thing. That was a nail-biting 12th game.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Hey, congrats on that.
I almost believed you to be a regular, tin-foil hat wearing forum dweller there for a second.
I played a game earlier and my opponent topdecked lethal. Game is busted, yo.
Never mind all the times that I did that to my opponent, that's not important.
lol . . . I lost a game . . . FUCKING RIGGED CONFIRMED!
After that 12th game, I lost the next one. Clearly Blizzard rigged the game so that it's impossible to win 13 in a row.
I switched decks and lost a game. Clearly Blizzard rigs the game so that you're punished for changing decks.
Hey this is fun . . .
EDIT: Though I'm obviously just having a bit of fun here, sarcasm is best when also parody. And I've been told I need to become more succinct, so the statements above are short and sweet versions of the past 3 pages.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's funny watching people employ every rhetorical tactic to try to cast doubt on the fact that the game is rigged.
It's scary to see people still insisting it's fact. Besides, when you say "rhetorical tactic", you mean sharing anecdotes as evidence? Yeah, I hate when people employ that rhetorical tactic.
At least in the other thread on this exact topic, some folks are finally admitting they don't care about reality; that they are just expressing their perception. I think that's a ridiculous way to live life, but that's their business.
But what actually is funny is that despite all statements to the contrary, the closest I've come to expressing a guess (not an opinion, this is reality we're talking about) on the rigging controversy is to say that I think it's likely not rigged just based on how easy it would be to prove if it was. That plus the fact that I've never seen anything myself that jives with the stories these folks tell.
My point has never been that the system isn't rigged. My point is we have no idea whether it is or not because no one has done the work to know for sure, and the "evidence" people use isn't evidence.
This is the part of these threads that always interests me, though. Since no one has actually risen to the challenge of putting in the work to show what they say is true, after the flurry of interest in the first page or two, the remaining folks settle into one of three paths. It used to be that either the moderator closes the thread when things get too off topic or a Post 58 happens, which is the "rhetorical tactic" of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and trying desperately not to hear anything counter to the narrative. Now, as I said above, some folks are picking the more live and let live approach of the relativist (I perceive my reality, you perceive yours). Time will tell if they actually live up to the "you perceive yours" part or if they just start insulting people again at the next merry-go-round on this topic.
In case anyone is tempted to do the, "it's not like you proved anything either" schtick, I have to say that's mostly true. I just got 12 wins in a row, there's only been 3 or 4 months I haven't hit legend, when I experience a run of bad matchups, I do my best to win them anyway and don't look for external scapegoats for my failings . . . in short, I don't see there's much to prove. Furthermore, you can't really prove a negative (there's not a rigorous way to prove something is NOT rigged mathematically). The closest you can come is to run the experiment in reverse and see if it fails. Statistics can only get you as close as the statement "I cannot be 90/95/99% confident in rejecting the hypothesis that the matchmaking system is random with respect to deck selection", and if I were to write that, however correct it may be, someone would just say I was hedging or misleading.
Tl;DR I've used statistical tactics, point by point breakdowns of evidence or lack thereof, etc etc, it all gets ignored equally.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's funny when people claim the game is rigged yet when asked to provide proof, never come up with any
It’s ok y’all you guys are clearly smarter and brighter than us! Proving our point that whatever we say you and show you you will find a reason to deny because you all are 200 iq big brainz. Or maybe just masochists who love the feel and taste of blizzards boot :)
I came back to the game when the achievement system got here and, starting from bronze 5 without any star bonus, won my first 14 games in a row. I lost once, then won another several games in a row.
If Blizzard is truly rigging the system, explain that!!
See, people who get a high winstreak don't complain about rigged matchmaking. People who get a high losstreak do. Both of these situations should be equally common, but you don't really hear people getting winstreaks as often, so people fail to see the survivorship bias and think it's rigged to make everyone lose.
And besides, do you know how much effort it would be to program something specifically to look at your deck, decide what it's weak against, and pair you against it? Also why weren't secret mages paired against OP's anti-secret deck?
It has often been stated that blizzard's algorithms are designed to promote player retention. When you start again after a long layoff it would logically follow that you would be fed good RNG to entice you to come back to the game.
And yet again, the idea that new player accounts enjoy more advantageous matchmaking for a time and then lose it is an even EASIER thing to test than the anti-weapon tech theory. So if it's true . . . someone show it.
@Poison
Honestly, I have no idea whether these people are equally/less/more intelligent as/than me because it's hard to tell how much effort and thought anyone is putting into their posts. When folks post videos that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand and claim they prove something they don't even talk about, I don't take that as a sign of lack of intelligence. I take it as a sign that the person is a bold-faced wanton liar. People who do stuff like that are much worse than dumb. They just gamble that the rest of the audience will take their word while either knowing they're lying or recklessly disregarding the truth.
As for some of the arguments put forward, again, it's one or the other. Either they genuinely are less intelligent, or FAR worse (in my book), they are deliberately dishonest to make a point. That's the ultimate irony at work here. You say something like "hee hee you must like the taste of Blizzard's boot" because I'm allegedly defending Blizzard (which I'm not), but you've got a group of other people who are willing to completely abandon every ounce of honesty over a video game.
Think what you will about me, I have never once misrepresented what I thought to be the truth. I'm as capable of getting something wrong as the next guy, but I'm not going to lie just to be on the "good" side.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Lowering a returning players mmr is a pretty normal thing, if you consider routine and recent meta experience as skill defining. That's not rigging the game, but overcompensation in the match making. Unless we're actually dealing with in-game RNG skewing, which none of us can prove in this case.
Tomato/Tomato....................and with the insane amount of RNG in the game now, tracking all the different variables sounds like quite a bit of work. We know from cards like zephrys that top decks and discovers can be weighted to help one player or the other in a given game. My contention has always been that blizzard is perfectly capable of rigging their game, They have financial incentive to do so, they guard the data so that it is hard to investigate which leads a reasonable person to conclude the game is likely to be rigged.