That would absolutely destroy the card and make it unplayable. What it really needs is to have the bounces limited like returning at the end of the turn. Could also make it a 0/1 so it retains its identity but is useless if you can’t bounce it
It's one of those cards i wouldn't bother becoming unplayable, just like Animated Broomstick. Those cards should have never been released in the first place.
Also, I have another suggestion for a nerf: Make the spellburst give you a copy without the spellburst (or outright give you Elven Archer :D). That's how a spellburst is supposed to work anyway, right? It should be a one-time-only effect.
Can you imagine how hard you need to nerf Animated Broomstick to make it unplayable ? It's just hilarious. Probably need to make it 5 mana and remove its own rush ability.
At 4 mana it's just a slightly worse Warsong Commander but it can ping so it's still better than Houndmaster Shaw as a neutral card, I would play it in some decks.. Yep, need to nerf it harder than the biggest nerf in history, Starving Buzzard
But Blizzard is reluctant to nerf it because it doesn't go face and win the game on turn 3, so it technically doesn't break the game and makes a lot of interactions on the board so..
They are kinda right in a way, if you think about it, broomstick is one of the most overpowered cards in history, but far from one of the most toxic and frustrating cards, in my opinion at least.
Yeah the meta is fucked by rogues. And you die by turn 6 because of all the burst and card draw. Nothing you can do. Your board has 10/13 in stats doesnt matter you are dead from 20 Only thing they need is stealth minion and that self sharpening nonsense with few nitroboosts.
Am I the only one who hates it when a topic is started "with am I the only one? "
No, you're not the only one who sees rogue as a problem. Rogue has always been near the top due to the classic set. Now that the classic set has rotated, expect to see a round Robin balancing that blizzard loves to do
That would absolutely destroy the card and make it unplayable. What it really needs is to have the bounces limited like returning at the end of the turn. Could also make it a 0/1 so it retains its identity but is useless if you can’t bounce it
It's one of those cards i wouldn't bother becoming unplayable, just like Animated Broomstick. Those cards should have never been released in the first place.
Also, I have another suggestion for a nerf: Make the spellburst give you a copy without the spellburst (or outright give you Elven Archer :D). That's how a spellburst is supposed to work anyway, right? It should be a one-time-only effect.
Can you imagine how hard you need to nerf Animated Broomstick to make it unplayable ? It's just hilarious. Probably need to make it 5 mana and remove its own rush ability.
At 4 mana it's just a slightly worse Warsong Commander but it can ping so it's still better than Houndmaster Shaw as a neutral card, I would play it in some decks.. Yep, need to nerf it harder than the biggest nerf in history, Starving Buzzard
Make it a 1/1 for 3 mana and it would be cut for most Druids decks for sure cause the reason why Broomstick is so player in midrange is because you can curve a (X-1) Drop in X turn + Broomstick or multiple units + broomstick. You can imagine yourself playing the card still in some decks but you would lose a lot of value by playing a 3 mana 1/1 to give rush to a minion that is 3 mana less value than your opponent last play (probably).
the cards u generate from secret passage should count as part of the "secret passage" space and get shuffled back into your deck at the end of your turn.
100% agree! The first time I saw it kept cards that were drawn I thought "That seems wrong...".
It's the same feeling I always had with how Branching Paths worked, in that after I first saw that a person could make the same selection twice, I was confused why they would allow that from a design standpoint. Like, that one specifically seemed it should have functioned like Pawn from the Dominion card game
Getting sick to the back teeth of this class. If I don't lose to their insane burst, I just get "created by" to death by all their bs random card generation.
Not rotating Shadowstep is a huge mistake and Wand Thief needs changed (give it the magic trick treatment and make it discover a spell that costs 2 or less). I'm fed up with that card being played 3-4 times a game and giving Rogue answers to every situation.
Getting sick to the back teeth of this class. If I don't lose to their insane burst, I just get "created by" to death by all their bs random card generation.
Not rotating Shadowstep is a huge mistake and Wand Thief needs changed (give it the magic trick treatment and make it discover a spell that costs 2 or less). I'm fed up with that card being played 3-4 times a game and giving Rogue answers to every situation.
Decks that have burst dont run generation, my dude.
If you're having trouble, you need to learn how to play against the class. I've been playing Prime lock, pure pally and token druid for the last month and I dont think I've lost one game against rogue.
Literally all you have to do is trade and defend until they hit turn 6 or so and then they concede. Whirlikick Rogue is the only deck with value generation and it's not consistent, its winrate is lower than any other rogue deck, and if you kill off their whirlis/Questing then they just lose.
They're decently strong right now sure, but only because people refuse to run anything to counter them. Run AoE. Run taunts. Run heals. Mulligan for better cards.
Whirlikick Rogue overall has about a 53% winrate and there are multiple decks that have 55-60% winrate against them. Stealth Rogue is stronger at 55% but gets annihilated by any control war build, aggro DH, highlander hunter, duel pally, and ESPECIALLY token druid which has 70% winrate against them.
Look at those decks, figure out why they win against rogue, and build your deck to match instead of netdecking
that is a useless advise mainly because you said yourself that one of the decks that you are using is another aggro deck which is an even match (its basically a flip coin) and the other is a RNG generator deck that more often wins because of RNG value. In fact i need to point also that Warlock is the only class that still have AoE Removal that competitive for standard. Those are the only two reasons why you win against Rogue. That said a lot of players in high ranks already point that the class is a problem and the deck has not a REAL counter on ladder. There is not a single deck that performs well for everyone against rogue.
That is why rogue is so popular and has a very high winrate overall compare with the other classes. You can craft any heavy rogue counter deck that you want and them lose to anything that is not rogue or you can just run even match decks like token Druid. Regardless of that you cant change the fact that is the BEST deck on the meta and it will win moren often than your decks. Specially because is twice as fast so even with a lower winrate it has probably 30% more matches played than you.
HsReplay's top 1000 legend list tonight, tier 1 standing - 3 out of 4 decks are Rogue.
The class is absolutely broken. Its class set is too strong, and it is given a ridiculous number of cheap cards that allow it to generate or find resources.
It's pretty obvious someone at Blizzard loves this class and favours it over and over again. It's not amusing, it really pisses many of us off, and it should have been addressed years ago.
They're decently strong right now sure, but only because people refuse to run anything to counter them. Run AoE. Run taunts. Run heals. Mulligan for better cards.
Been playing Warrior a lot recently and I have all these things, unfortunately my Rogue opponent still has a double deadly poison/nitro boosted weapon on top of sinister strikes and eviscerates (and pen flinger). So even if I happen to remove every single minion before it touches me they can still burst you down over time. As for taunts - you need multiple and high health because they can just sap a big taunt. Now if I drew all my early removal and armour gain cards and started slotting in double ooze (and drew them at the right time) then I might be good but honestly it's just too easy for Rogue to draw out most of their deck and just push through damage.
I'm not stupid to believe the deck is unbeatable but it has weapon burst, damage from hand (spells) and stealth minions which are 3 of the most uninteractive forms of damage (it is only missing charge). I think as others have mentioned the biggest problem is Secret Passage, in the past these kinds of decks never had such insane draw power and so you could run them out of steam (think aggro hunter or demon hunter) the fact that most damage is from weapons and stealth minions also means it's better to play decks that completely ignore that and just race them.
They're decently strong right now sure, but only because people refuse to run anything to counter them. Run AoE. Run taunts. Run heals. Mulligan for better cards.
Been playing Warrior a lot recently and I have all these things, unfortunately my Rogue opponent still has a double deadly poison/nitro boosted weapon on top of sinister strikes and eviscerates (and pen flinger). So even if I happen to remove every single minion before it touches me they can still burst you down over time. As for taunts - you need multiple and high health because they can just sap a big taunt. Now if I drew all my early removal and armour gain cards and started slotting in double ooze (and drew them at the right time) then I might be good but honestly it's just too easy for Rogue to draw out most of their deck and just push through damage.
I'm not stupid to believe the deck is unbeatable but it has weapon burst, damage from hand (spells) and stealth minions which are 3 of the most uninteractive forms of damage (it is only missing charge). I think as others have mentioned the biggest problem is Secret Passage, in the past these kinds of decks never had such insane draw power and so you could run them out of steam (think aggro hunter or demon hunter) the fact that most damage is from weapons and stealth minions also means it's better to play decks that completely ignore that and just race them.
How though? I've been playing Prime Lock and spellmage and both decks have no issue against Rogue
In what situation are they able to draw and use two Deadly, two nitroboost, both Evis, two sinstrike, at least one sap, and multiple minions? That's 32 damage if literally everything hits face. As a warrior, you should have at least 40-45 health for them to burn through by the time they can draw all that.
If you're playing War, you have multiple options. Whirlwind, Cleave, Minefield, Bladestorm, Risky Skipper all eliminate stealthed minions. And Barricade forces them to burn an Evisc or weapon use on it
It's all about knowing the deck you're facing and playing around it. Taking 3 damage from a spymistress t2 and then whirlwinding it and a second minion on t3 is better than just going for one kill, because you'll still survive later, for example.
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Pretty sure I read that there will be a brief period between the nerf revert and rotation where standard will have the unnerfed cards.
Can you imagine how hard you need to nerf Animated Broomstick to make it unplayable ? It's just hilarious. Probably need to make it 5 mana and remove its own rush ability.
At 4 mana it's just a slightly worse Warsong Commander but it can ping so it's still better than Houndmaster Shaw as a neutral card, I would play it in some decks.. Yep, need to nerf it harder than the biggest nerf in history, Starving Buzzard
But Blizzard is reluctant to nerf it because it doesn't go face and win the game on turn 3, so it technically doesn't break the game and makes a lot of interactions on the board so..
They are kinda right in a way, if you think about it, broomstick is one of the most overpowered cards in history, but far from one of the most toxic and frustrating cards, in my opinion at least.
Yeah the meta is fucked by rogues. And you die by turn 6 because of all the burst and card draw. Nothing you can do. Your board has 10/13 in stats doesnt matter you are dead from 20 Only thing they need is stealth minion and that self sharpening nonsense with few nitroboosts.
Am I the only one who hates it when a topic is started "with am I the only one? "
No, you're not the only one who sees rogue as a problem. Rogue has always been near the top due to the classic set. Now that the classic set has rotated, expect to see a round Robin balancing that blizzard loves to do
Make it a 1/1 for 3 mana and it would be cut for most Druids decks for sure cause the reason why Broomstick is so player in midrange is because you can curve a (X-1) Drop in X turn + Broomstick or multiple units + broomstick. You can imagine yourself playing the card still in some decks but you would lose a lot of value by playing a 3 mana 1/1 to give rush to a minion that is 3 mana less value than your opponent last play (probably).
100% agree! The first time I saw it kept cards that were drawn I thought "That seems wrong...".
It's the same feeling I always had with how Branching Paths worked, in that after I first saw that a person could make the same selection twice, I was confused why they would allow that from a design standpoint. Like, that one specifically seemed it should have functioned like Pawn from the Dominion card game
Getting sick to the back teeth of this class. If I don't lose to their insane burst, I just get "created by" to death by all their bs random card generation.
Not rotating Shadowstep is a huge mistake and Wand Thief needs changed (give it the magic trick treatment and make it discover a spell that costs 2 or less). I'm fed up with that card being played 3-4 times a game and giving Rogue answers to every situation.
Decks that have burst dont run generation, my dude.
If you're having trouble, you need to learn how to play against the class. I've been playing Prime lock, pure pally and token druid for the last month and I dont think I've lost one game against rogue.
Literally all you have to do is trade and defend until they hit turn 6 or so and then they concede. Whirlikick Rogue is the only deck with value generation and it's not consistent, its winrate is lower than any other rogue deck, and if you kill off their whirlis/Questing then they just lose.
They're decently strong right now sure, but only because people refuse to run anything to counter them. Run AoE. Run taunts. Run heals. Mulligan for better cards.
https://hsreplay.net/meta/#tab=matchups
Whirlikick Rogue overall has about a 53% winrate and there are multiple decks that have 55-60% winrate against them. Stealth Rogue is stronger at 55% but gets annihilated by any control war build, aggro DH, highlander hunter, duel pally, and ESPECIALLY token druid which has 70% winrate against them.
Look at those decks, figure out why they win against rogue, and build your deck to match instead of netdecking
Damn, why didn’t I think of any of these things before?! *smacks forehead*
Thanks to your amazing advice, I now have no unfavorable matchups!
that is a useless advise mainly because you said yourself that one of the decks that you are using is another aggro deck which is an even match (its basically a flip coin) and the other is a RNG generator deck that more often wins because of RNG value. In fact i need to point also that Warlock is the only class that still have AoE Removal that competitive for standard. Those are the only two reasons why you win against Rogue. That said a lot of players in high ranks already point that the class is a problem and the deck has not a REAL counter on ladder. There is not a single deck that performs well for everyone against rogue.
That is why rogue is so popular and has a very high winrate overall compare with the other classes. You can craft any heavy rogue counter deck that you want and them lose to anything that is not rogue or you can just run even match decks like token Druid. Regardless of that you cant change the fact that is the BEST deck on the meta and it will win moren often than your decks. Specially because is twice as fast so even with a lower winrate it has probably 30% more matches played than you.
HsReplay's top 1000 legend list tonight, tier 1 standing - 3 out of 4 decks are Rogue.
The class is absolutely broken. Its class set is too strong, and it is given a ridiculous number of cheap cards that allow it to generate or find resources.
It's pretty obvious someone at Blizzard loves this class and favours it over and over again. It's not amusing, it really pisses many of us off, and it should have been addressed years ago.
Been playing Warrior a lot recently and I have all these things, unfortunately my Rogue opponent still has a double deadly poison/nitro boosted weapon on top of sinister strikes and eviscerates (and pen flinger). So even if I happen to remove every single minion before it touches me they can still burst you down over time. As for taunts - you need multiple and high health because they can just sap a big taunt. Now if I drew all my early removal and armour gain cards and started slotting in double ooze (and drew them at the right time) then I might be good but honestly it's just too easy for Rogue to draw out most of their deck and just push through damage.
I'm not stupid to believe the deck is unbeatable but it has weapon burst, damage from hand (spells) and stealth minions which are 3 of the most uninteractive forms of damage (it is only missing charge). I think as others have mentioned the biggest problem is Secret Passage, in the past these kinds of decks never had such insane draw power and so you could run them out of steam (think aggro hunter or demon hunter) the fact that most damage is from weapons and stealth minions also means it's better to play decks that completely ignore that and just race them.
How though? I've been playing Prime Lock and spellmage and both decks have no issue against Rogue
In what situation are they able to draw and use two Deadly, two nitroboost, both Evis, two sinstrike, at least one sap, and multiple minions? That's 32 damage if literally everything hits face. As a warrior, you should have at least 40-45 health for them to burn through by the time they can draw all that.
If you're playing War, you have multiple options. Whirlwind, Cleave, Minefield, Bladestorm, Risky Skipper all eliminate stealthed minions. And Barricade forces them to burn an Evisc or weapon use on it
It's all about knowing the deck you're facing and playing around it. Taking 3 damage from a spymistress t2 and then whirlwinding it and a second minion on t3 is better than just going for one kill, because you'll still survive later, for example.