These are all MUCH fairer burn cards than Frostbolt, Kill Command, Eaglehorn Bow and Eviscerate were. MUCH fairer.
Easy to say now, but if they make it into T1 aggro decks, your opinion might change. The 4 cards you mention don't strike me as particularly unfair cards, maybe Eaglehorn bow. Frostbolt is vanilla burst and worse than Quick Shot that you qualify as fair, eviscerate is 1 damage over vanilla and conditional, kill command is vanilla and conditional.
Eviscerate and Twin Slice were a huge amount of reach in classes that dealt a lot of sustained damage across the course of a game. For an extremely cheap mana cost. Frostbolt was so cheap and was being run in a class that had a lot of cheap spell damage at that point. But mainly Frostbolt was reach in a class with a critical mass of reach. (It also just did a lot of other stuff. It's good removal, it's good at shutting down big threats for a turn.)
Quick Shot and Sinister Strike are Hunter and Rogue's ONLY burst spells now. So I think that's a lot more reasonable. By the same token, because they are their only burn spells, their value is going to go up a lot. But we probably won't see a lot of those same decks from last year that burned people out from 15 health with no board doing that to quite the same degree.
Illidari Inquisitor is an 8 mana minion. It's better than Al'akir and King Krush and probably Grom, which is weird and extremely confusing but otherwise it's an 8 mana minion that deals 8 damage. That's not even reach really.
I suspect that with so much burst & reach getting cut, even cards like Al'akir and Krush are going to start looking good again (you can actually hand/deck buff Krush a lot in Hunter decks, which the meta might be slow enough to pull off). So maybe Illidari Inquisitor is just nuts, but I dunno, it strikes me as *good*, and probably a good game-winning card, but it ends there I think.
Yes, there are a few cards with burst remaining and (re-)introduced, including, that Priest gets some options now. You could argue that Alexstrasza the Life-Binder is a neutral (and strangely better) King Krush, but then again, King Krush was very rarely featured in Hunter decks before. Along with some cards from last year, there seems to be a bigger emphasis on Spell Damage, to make the remaining burst spells more impactful. And yes, Demon Hunter keeps some options for face damage as well. Get over it, the hate train is starting to get embarassing.
Nobody said there's no more burst anymore, but it is evident, that burst is clearly and severely reduced across all classes, to a level where most classes get significantly slower, and some might even give up on aggressive strategies altogether. It's not impossible to die to an empty or small board, but it will be a whole lot less common.
Remember, the core set is designed with six specific expansions in mind (the three from Phoenix and the three we'll be getting from Griffin), and by removing or adding certain cards, Team Five can preemptively buff or nerf decks/archetypes they predict will be in the meta. Maybe Baron Rivendare is there to support new deathrattle archetypes; maybe Archmage Antonidas is gone because he would either be useless or broken the next year.
I also think a lot of iconic cards, including Frostbolt, were removed simply because they have seen so.much.play. A meta without Kill Command, Animal Companion, Sap, Eviscerate, Shield Block, Blizzard and Shadow Word: Pain? It's almost impossible to imagine now, but it'll be the new reality next month.
Tony is the FIRST Golden card I ever made. Also he has the best card art. And a unique, highly useful effect. He's not even in the meta now. :(
And Frostbolt? Well, and Pyroblast? All iconic Mage spells. Pyro wasn't used too much but still...
You’re right on all counts, but everything has its time and the rotating core set means we will likely see them return in the future. They may be iconic Mage spells and cards but Hearthstone is a game that needs to progress and in that way gameplay takes precedence over theme.
Nobody said there's no more burst anymore, but it is evident, that burst is clearly and severely reduced across all classes, to a level where most classes get significantly slower, and some might even give up on aggressive strategies altogether. It's not impossible to die to an empty or small board, but it will be a whole lot less common.
What classes are going to give up their aggressive strategies? Demon Hunter? Hunter? Rogue? Mage? Rogue, Demon Hunter and Hunter still have weapons, Hunter still has it's hero power. They're not going to stop being aggressive.
Mage has less burn (for now) but it has a lot of spell damage cards to make that burn go far. And Ras Frostwhisper is still an incredibly strong card for face damage.
Warlock and Druid will no longer be spell damage classes I suppose. But Druid actually has more ways to go face now with feral attacks than it did with a lot of it's burn spells. And they're far more efficient. Double moonlit amulet with solar eclipse is 12 face damage. Feral Rage is another 4 each. Pounce is 2 for 0.
Also removing burn cards from core means there's room to print new ones in new sets.
Alexstrasza is also basically a new Ragnaros really. Giving a lot of decks that haven't had that extra little damage push to end games what they need to finish off a struggling opponent. But it won't be from getting double Eviscerate off of a secret passage on turn 6. It'll be from an expensive card on turn 9.
Remember, the core set is designed with six specific expansions in mind (the three from Phoenix and the three we'll be getting from Griffin), and by removing or adding certain cards, Team Five can preemptively buff or nerf decks/archetypes they predict will be in the meta. Maybe Baron Rivendare is there to support new deathrattle archetypes; maybe Archmage Antonidas is gone because he would either be useless or broken the next year.
I also think a lot of iconic cards, including Frostbolt, were removed simply because they have seen so.much.play. A meta without Kill Command, Animal Companion, Sap, Eviscerate, Shield Block, Blizzard and Shadow Word: Pain? It's almost impossible to imagine now, but it'll be the new reality next month.
They definitely had some expansions in mind when they decided which cards will belong to the core set for this year. Iksar said on twitter that rogue doesn't have the tools or healing to make a control deck but there will be some midrange deathrattle rogue so baron will be there to support the archetype.
Remember : the main point showing that Blizzard is REALLY trying to make something good with the core set is that they removed the Blizzard card. And that means a lot ! :D
If I had to guess - They removed Frostbolt because it would be too powerful with the ice school synergies. Perhaps, Anton and Apprentice had to go because of good cheap spells AND\OR ways to make mage minions cheaper.
The whole reason of Core Set existence is to allow cards that were impossible before because they would be too powerful with certain evergreen cards.
Nobody said there's no more burst anymore, but it is evident, that burst is clearly and severely reduced across all classes, to a level where most classes get significantly slower, and some might even give up on aggressive strategies altogether. It's not impossible to die to an empty or small board, but it will be a whole lot less common.
What classes are going to give up their aggressive strategies? Demon Hunter? Hunter? Rogue? Mage? Rogue, Demon Hunter and Hunter still have weapons, Hunter still has it's hero power. They're not going to stop being aggressive.
Mage has less burn (for now) but it has a lot of spell damage cards to make that burn go far. And Ras Frostwhisper is still an incredibly strong card for face damage.
Warlock and Druid will no longer be spell damage classes I suppose. But Druid actually has more ways to go face now with feral attacks than it did with a lot of it's burn spells. And they're far more efficient. Double moonlit amulet with solar eclipse is 12 face damage. Feral Rage is another 4 each. Pounce is 2 for 0.
Also removing burn cards from core means there's room to print new ones in new sets.
Alexstrasza is also basically a new Ragnaros really. Giving a lot of decks that haven't had that extra little damage push to end games what they need to finish off a struggling opponent. But it won't be from getting double Eviscerate off of a secret passage on turn 6. It'll be from an expensive card on turn 9.
I didn't want to go too far into individual class discussion since it would be deserving its own topic, and it is a bit of speculation since we don't know what the next expansion looks like, and would likely predict the meta wrongly if we knew anyway, but fine...
I certainly did not talk about Demon Hunter and Rogue. When I say "most classes", I obviously don't mean "all classes", and "some" only "might" give up playing aggressive. I would have assumed it goes without saying that Rogue and Demon Hunter have enough tools to remain as aggressive as they are now. I even mentioned DH specifically having a good amount of burst left. It honestly feels a bit like you are playing dumb here, just for the sake of it, but perhaps you felt like I'm overlooking something. So, if you want me to say that DH and Rogue are still aggressive classes, sure, consider it said. Moving on.
I think Hunter will be one of the classes that slows down. When the best weapon hits for 2, and there's nothing like Toxic Reinforcements, Dragonbane, Unleash, KC etc., there isn't much hope in closing games before your opponent can stabilize. The hero power pushes the class to play aggressively, so any Midranger Hunter is still more about sustained pressure, but I think the "Face Hunter" thing might actually disappear.
Same with Shaman: Because of Inara Stormcrash and Doomhammer, the class might actually be in a good position to pursue an aggressive playstyle, and (nature) spell damage + Lightning Bolt is perhaps enough to close games out after weapon damage, but without Lava Burst and the Wrath of Air Totem, you have less reach and need more (expensive) cards for lots of damage. The Token playstyle is pretty much dead with every (temporary) board buff rotating out.
Paladin isn't changing much, and actually gets stronger. But I can't take it seriously, when someone claims that Libram or Pure Paladin is an "aggressive" deck, lest they want to declare anything aggressive that summons minions before turn 6. The deck is as Midrange as it can get, in my opinion.
Druid, I think will actually stop being aggressive. Maybe the Token playstyle does survive, but with Savage Roar being the main finisher, and Blessing of the Ancients rotating as well, I feel Power of the Wild and Arbor Up just isn't good enough to keep it alive, but I might be wrong there. The "feral" attacks in Druid could potentially be used for face damage, but here I go with history: Druid had these kind of cards very often, for long periods of time, and never used them this way. I think the only time when Druid hero attacks were somewhat scary was during the time of Malfurion the Pestilent. Slamming a bunch of one-time attacks at the face doesn't seem like a good win condition to me, especially in a class that already lacks good removal. And I definitely wouldn't go so far to rate them superior to Malygos combos.
I am not certain about Mage and Warlock. Warlock has some wide-board synergy left, but no Sea Giant. Some discard stuff, but can they really get enough pressure on the board? Without Soulfire, there's essentially no way to win without board advantage, and Zoo isn't particularly good (or rather: not outstanding) already.
Mage, on the other hand, has some burst damage left, but way less overall, requiring more of a build-up than pushing damage whenever it's possible or convenient. Even if a focus on Spell Damage remains a good strategy, I think it will slow down as well. Aegwynn, the Guardian will help significantly with consistency, though.
Finally, I think Warrior is gonna drop any aggressive style for the time being. What is left for face damage can not be utilized like explosive Pirate builds of previous metas, and the Enrage deck is dropping out as well. Maybe a midrange Warrior is possible, more like new Hunter decks, perhaps with a bigger emphasis on Weapon buffs (Nitroboost, Krastinov), but even that I struggle imagining. Again, kind of like Zoolock, it's not a great build now, with more useful cards still around.
Now, I can't predict the future, so I admit: Yes, sure they can release new burst cards as well. I don't think they will, or else they could have just left these cards in the Core set. I take the Core set as a statement that they wanted less and more expensive burst in the next year of Standard. For the time being, I assume that Barrens won't give us many unconditional damage spells for less than 4 or 5 mana, if any. And a 9 mana "basically Ragnaros" has to be viewed in context: Ragnaros was, at times, actually good enough in some decks with all the old burst options. Now, those options are (mostly) gone, and your opponent might have 5-10 more health on average in such situations. And decks relying on a 8, 9 or 10 mana finisher to win are on a different level than decks with Leeroy being the most expensive card, and can hardly be called "aggressive".
In case I haven't made it clear enough already, I think there will still be aggressive decks. But under these circumstances, and unless Barrens just adds all the stuff again that was just tossed out, I think many (but not all) classes will shift more to a midrange style, as they need to rely more on board advantage than burst.
I certainly did not talk about Demon Hunter and Rogue. When I say "most classes", I obviously don't mean "all classes", and "some" only "might" give up playing aggressive. I would have assumed it goes without saying that Rogue and Demon Hunter have enough tools to remain as aggressive as they are now. I even mentioned DH specifically having a good amount of burst left. It honestly feels a bit like you are playing dumb here, just for the sake of it, but perhaps you felt like I'm overlooking something. So, if you want me to say that DH and Rogue are still aggressive classes, sure, consider it said. Moving on.
I legitimately couldn't think of a common aggro class that is going to be less aggressive now. I wouldn't call token Shaman or Druid aggro decks really, and Arbor Up is a super strong card still. And I think Feral Rage/Moonlit Amulet will be used as a finisher just about as much as swipe was.
I guess what's being said here is aggro decks won't be able to finish off opponents with big midrange turn 6 burst turns. Which... okay. I think this is a good thing. We'll just be going back to the days when Ragnaros the Firelord was a suitable finishing card.
Nobody said there's no more burst anymore, but it is evident, that burst is clearly and severely reduced across all classes, to a level where most classes get significantly slower, and some might even give up on aggressive strategies altogether. It's not impossible to die to an empty or small board, but it will be a whole lot less common.
What classes are going to give up their aggressive strategies? Demon Hunter? Hunter? Rogue? Mage? Rogue, Demon Hunter and Hunter still have weapons, Hunter still has it's hero power. They're not going to stop being aggressive.
Mage has less burn (for now) but it has a lot of spell damage cards to make that burn go far. And Ras Frostwhisper is still an incredibly strong card for face damage.
Warlock and Druid will no longer be spell damage classes I suppose. But Druid actually has more ways to go face now with feral attacks than it did with a lot of it's burn spells. And they're far more efficient. Double moonlit amulet with solar eclipse is 12 face damage. Feral Rage is another 4 each. Pounce is 2 for 0.
Also removing burn cards from core means there's room to print new ones in new sets.
Alexstrasza is also basically a new Ragnaros really. Giving a lot of decks that haven't had that extra little damage push to end games what they need to finish off a struggling opponent. But it won't be from getting double Eviscerate off of a secret passage on turn 6. It'll be from an expensive card on turn 9.
I didn't want to go too far into individual class discussion since it would be deserving its own topic, and it is a bit of speculation since we don't know what the next expansion looks like, and would likely predict the meta wrongly if we knew anyway, but fine...
I certainly did not talk about Demon Hunter and Rogue. When I say "most classes", I obviously don't mean "all classes", and "some" only "might" give up playing aggressive. I would have assumed it goes without saying that Rogue and Demon Hunter have enough tools to remain as aggressive as they are now. I even mentioned DH specifically having a good amount of burst left. It honestly feels a bit like you are playing dumb here, just for the sake of it, but perhaps you felt like I'm overlooking something. So, if you want me to say that DH and Rogue are still aggressive classes, sure, consider it said. Moving on.
I think Hunter will be one of the classes that slows down. When the best weapon hits for 2, and there's nothing like Toxic Reinforcements, Dragonbane, Unleash, KC etc., there isn't much hope in closing games before your opponent can stabilize. The hero power pushes the class to play aggressively, so any Midranger Hunter is still more about sustained pressure, but I think the "Face Hunter" thing might actually disappear.
Same with Shaman: Because of Inara Stormcrash and Doomhammer, the class might actually be in a good position to pursue an aggressive playstyle, and (nature) spell damage + Lightning Bolt is perhaps enough to close games out after weapon damage, but without Lava Burst and the Wrath of Air Totem, you have less reach and need more (expensive) cards for lots of damage. The Token playstyle is pretty much dead with every (temporary) board buff rotating out.
Paladin isn't changing much, and actually gets stronger. But I can't take it seriously, when someone claims that Libram or Pure Paladin is an "aggressive" deck, lest they want to declare anything aggressive that summons minions before turn 6. The deck is as Midrange as it can get, in my opinion.
Druid, I think will actually stop being aggressive. Maybe the Token playstyle does survive, but with Savage Roar being the main finisher, and Blessing of the Ancients rotating as well, I feel Power of the Wild and Arbor Up just isn't good enough to keep it alive, but I might be wrong there. The "feral" attacks in Druid could potentially be used for face damage, but here I go with history: Druid had these kind of cards very often, for long periods of time, and never used them this way. I think the only time when Druid hero attacks were somewhat scary was during the time of Malfurion the Pestilent. Slamming a bunch of one-time attacks at the face doesn't seem like a good win condition to me, especially in a class that already lacks good removal. And I definitely wouldn't go so far to rate them superior to Malygos combos.
I am not certain about Mage and Warlock. Warlock has some wide-board synergy left, but no Sea Giant. Some discard stuff, but can they really get enough pressure on the board? Without Soulfire, there's essentially no way to win without board advantage, and Zoo isn't particularly good (or rather: not outstanding) already.
Mage, on the other hand, has some burst damage left, but way less overall, requiring more of a build-up than pushing damage whenever it's possible or convenient. Even if a focus on Spell Damage remains a good strategy, I think it will slow down as well. Aegwynn, the Guardian will help significantly with consistency, though.
Finally, I think Warrior is gonna drop any aggressive style for the time being. What is left for face damage can not be utilized like explosive Pirate builds of previous metas, and the Enrage deck is dropping out as well. Maybe a midrange Warrior is possible, more like new Hunter decks, perhaps with a bigger emphasis on Weapon buffs (Nitroboost, Krastinov), but even that I struggle imagining. Again, kind of like Zoolock, it's not a great build now, with more useful cards still around.
Now, I can't predict the future, so I admit: Yes, sure they can release new burst cards as well. I don't think they will, or else they could have just left these cards in the Core set. I take the Core set as a statement that they wanted less and more expensive burst in the next year of Standard. For the time being, I assume that Barrens won't give us many unconditional damage spells for less than 4 or 5 mana, if any. And a 9 mana "basically Ragnaros" has to be viewed in context: Ragnaros was, at times, actually good enough in some decks with all the old burst options. Now, those options are (mostly) gone, and your opponent might have 5-10 more health on average in such situations. And decks relying on a 8, 9 or 10 mana finisher to win are on a different level than decks with Leeroy being the most expensive card, and can hardly be called "aggressive".
In case I haven't made it clear enough already, I think there will still be aggressive decks. But under these circumstances, and unless Barrens just adds all the stuff again that was just tossed out, I think many (but not all) classes will shift more to a midrange style, as they need to rely more on board advantage than burst.
I am glad there is someone here who understands gameplay. Thank you.
I certainly did not talk about Demon Hunter and Rogue. When I say "most classes", I obviously don't mean "all classes", and "some" only "might" give up playing aggressive. I would have assumed it goes without saying that Rogue and Demon Hunter have enough tools to remain as aggressive as they are now. I even mentioned DH specifically having a good amount of burst left. It honestly feels a bit like you are playing dumb here, just for the sake of it, but perhaps you felt like I'm overlooking something. So, if you want me to say that DH and Rogue are still aggressive classes, sure, consider it said. Moving on.
I legitimately couldn't think of a common aggro class that is going to be less aggressive now. I wouldn't call token Shaman or Druid aggro decks really, and Arbor Up is a super strong card still. And I think Feral Rage/Moonlit Amulet will be used as a finisher just about as much as swipe was.
I guess what's being said here is aggro decks won't be able to finish off opponents with big midrange turn 6 burst turns. Which... okay. I think this is a good thing. We'll just be going back to the days when Ragnaros the Firelord was a suitable finishing card.
Rag was rarely used as a finishing card outside of midrange and control though? (Sorry if I’ve misunderstood you here) Even King Krush was a relative rarity back in vanilla HS.
He definitely appeared in some lists but I can probably count on 1 had the amount of times a Face Hunter, Aggro Paladin or Zoo deck finished me off with Rag.
I certainly did not talk about Demon Hunter and Rogue. When I say "most classes", I obviously don't mean "all classes", and "some" only "might" give up playing aggressive. I would have assumed it goes without saying that Rogue and Demon Hunter have enough tools to remain as aggressive as they are now. I even mentioned DH specifically having a good amount of burst left. It honestly feels a bit like you are playing dumb here, just for the sake of it, but perhaps you felt like I'm overlooking something. So, if you want me to say that DH and Rogue are still aggressive classes, sure, consider it said. Moving on.
I legitimately couldn't think of a common aggro class that is going to be less aggressive now. I wouldn't call token Shaman or Druid aggro decks really, and Arbor Up is a super strong card still. And I think Feral Rage/Moonlit Amulet will be used as a finisher just about as much as swipe was.
I guess what's being said here is aggro decks won't be able to finish off opponents with big midrange turn 6 burst turns. Which... okay. I think this is a good thing. We'll just be going back to the days when Ragnaros the Firelord was a suitable finishing card.
Rag was rarely used as a finishing card outside of midrange and control though? (Sorry if I’ve misunderstood you here) Even King Krush was a relative rarity back in vanilla HS.
He definitely appeared in some lists but I can probably count on 1 had the amount of times a Face Hunter, Aggro Paladin or Zoo deck finished me off with Rag.
I was thinking more of like aggro warrior decks. Usually Rag was there as a finisher. It's obviously too expensive for zoo or face hunter. I don't remember what aggro paladin was in this context.
I'm talking more about like... post Blackrock era. After Face Hunter wasn't really around anymore. Before Pirate Warrior. I didn't really follow hearthstone TOO closely back then, but I remember there were a few aggro decks then that used Rag as a finisher like that. Because there just weren't better options.
My guess is they plan to print cards that would enable a Sorcerer's Apprentice + Antonidas OTK type combo over the course of the next two years, and don't want Antonidas in Core for that time, to prevent Mage from basically having the same OTK deck they've played on and off since the start of Hearthstone. He's the sort of card I'd see bouncing in and out of the Core Set depending on what else they're printing for Standard.
and still the children defend the new criminal practice again
devs hate combo decks, especially OTK combo decks.
Antonidas hasnt been relevent in standard in a long time.
Eviscerate and Twin Slice were a huge amount of reach in classes that dealt a lot of sustained damage across the course of a game. For an extremely cheap mana cost. Frostbolt was so cheap and was being run in a class that had a lot of cheap spell damage at that point. But mainly Frostbolt was reach in a class with a critical mass of reach. (It also just did a lot of other stuff. It's good removal, it's good at shutting down big threats for a turn.)
Quick Shot and Sinister Strike are Hunter and Rogue's ONLY burst spells now. So I think that's a lot more reasonable. By the same token, because they are their only burn spells, their value is going to go up a lot. But we probably won't see a lot of those same decks from last year that burned people out from 15 health with no board doing that to quite the same degree.
Illidari Inquisitor is an 8 mana minion. It's better than Al'akir and King Krush and probably Grom, which is weird and extremely confusing but otherwise it's an 8 mana minion that deals 8 damage. That's not even reach really.
I suspect that with so much burst & reach getting cut, even cards like Al'akir and Krush are going to start looking good again (you can actually hand/deck buff Krush a lot in Hunter decks, which the meta might be slow enough to pull off). So maybe Illidari Inquisitor is just nuts, but I dunno, it strikes me as *good*, and probably a good game-winning card, but it ends there I think.
Are you kidding ? Not even a year has passed since they designed a whole class with its identity being "going face".
Quick list of burst cards that are leaving (excluding a few bad ones like Drain Life):
Demon Hunter: Glaivebound Adept, Twin Slice, Wrathscale Naga, Altruis the Outcast, Shadowhoof Slayer, Inner Demon
Druid: Savage Roar, Swipe, Druid of the Claw (loses Charge), Starfire, Moonfire
Hunter: Kill Command, Huffer, Tundra Rhino, Unleash the Hounds, Eaglehorn Bow
Mage: Arcane Missiles, Frostbolt, Pyroblast, and Archmage Antonidas for generating more Fireballs
Paladin: Hammer of Wrath, Holy Wrath, Avenging Wrath
Rogue: Eviscerate, Shiv
Shaman: Flametongue Totem, Bloodlust, Lava Burst
Warlock: Soulfire (after Doomguard and Power Overwhelming were sacked a long time ago already)
Warrior: Kor'kron Elite, Arcanite Reaper, Heroic Strike, Mortal Strike, Upgrade!, Rampage, Inner Rage
Neutral: every single minion with Charge, further reducing the burst potential of buff spells
Yes, there are a few cards with burst remaining and (re-)introduced, including, that Priest gets some options now. You could argue that Alexstrasza the Life-Binder is a neutral (and strangely better) King Krush, but then again, King Krush was very rarely featured in Hunter decks before. Along with some cards from last year, there seems to be a bigger emphasis on Spell Damage, to make the remaining burst spells more impactful. And yes, Demon Hunter keeps some options for face damage as well. Get over it, the hate train is starting to get embarassing.
Nobody said there's no more burst anymore, but it is evident, that burst is clearly and severely reduced across all classes, to a level where most classes get significantly slower, and some might even give up on aggressive strategies altogether. It's not impossible to die to an empty or small board, but it will be a whole lot less common.
Remember, the core set is designed with six specific expansions in mind (the three from Phoenix and the three we'll be getting from Griffin), and by removing or adding certain cards, Team Five can preemptively buff or nerf decks/archetypes they predict will be in the meta. Maybe Baron Rivendare is there to support new deathrattle archetypes; maybe Archmage Antonidas is gone because he would either be useless or broken the next year.
I also think a lot of iconic cards, including Frostbolt, were removed simply because they have seen so.much.play. A meta without Kill Command, Animal Companion, Sap, Eviscerate, Shield Block, Blizzard and Shadow Word: Pain? It's almost impossible to imagine now, but it'll be the new reality next month.
You’re right on all counts, but everything has its time and the rotating core set means we will likely see them return in the future.
They may be iconic Mage spells and cards but Hearthstone is a game that needs to progress and in that way gameplay takes precedence over theme.
What classes are going to give up their aggressive strategies? Demon Hunter? Hunter? Rogue? Mage? Rogue, Demon Hunter and Hunter still have weapons, Hunter still has it's hero power. They're not going to stop being aggressive.
Mage has less burn (for now) but it has a lot of spell damage cards to make that burn go far. And Ras Frostwhisper is still an incredibly strong card for face damage.
Warlock and Druid will no longer be spell damage classes I suppose. But Druid actually has more ways to go face now with feral attacks than it did with a lot of it's burn spells. And they're far more efficient. Double moonlit amulet with solar eclipse is 12 face damage. Feral Rage is another 4 each. Pounce is 2 for 0.
Also removing burn cards from core means there's room to print new ones in new sets.
Alexstrasza is also basically a new Ragnaros really. Giving a lot of decks that haven't had that extra little damage push to end games what they need to finish off a struggling opponent. But it won't be from getting double Eviscerate off of a secret passage on turn 6. It'll be from an expensive card on turn 9.
They definitely had some expansions in mind when they decided which cards will belong to the core set for this year. Iksar said on twitter that rogue doesn't have the tools or healing to make a control deck but there will be some midrange deathrattle rogue so baron will be there to support the archetype.
Remember : the main point showing that Blizzard is REALLY trying to make something good with the core set is that they removed the Blizzard card. And that means a lot ! :D
If I had to guess - They removed Frostbolt because it would be too powerful with the ice school synergies. Perhaps, Anton and Apprentice had to go because of good cheap spells AND\OR ways to make mage minions cheaper.
The whole reason of Core Set existence is to allow cards that were impossible before because they would be too powerful with certain evergreen cards.
I didn't want to go too far into individual class discussion since it would be deserving its own topic, and it is a bit of speculation since we don't know what the next expansion looks like, and would likely predict the meta wrongly if we knew anyway, but fine...
I certainly did not talk about Demon Hunter and Rogue. When I say "most classes", I obviously don't mean "all classes", and "some" only "might" give up playing aggressive. I would have assumed it goes without saying that Rogue and Demon Hunter have enough tools to remain as aggressive as they are now. I even mentioned DH specifically having a good amount of burst left. It honestly feels a bit like you are playing dumb here, just for the sake of it, but perhaps you felt like I'm overlooking something. So, if you want me to say that DH and Rogue are still aggressive classes, sure, consider it said. Moving on.
I think Hunter will be one of the classes that slows down. When the best weapon hits for 2, and there's nothing like Toxic Reinforcements, Dragonbane, Unleash, KC etc., there isn't much hope in closing games before your opponent can stabilize. The hero power pushes the class to play aggressively, so any Midranger Hunter is still more about sustained pressure, but I think the "Face Hunter" thing might actually disappear.
Same with Shaman: Because of Inara Stormcrash and Doomhammer, the class might actually be in a good position to pursue an aggressive playstyle, and (nature) spell damage + Lightning Bolt is perhaps enough to close games out after weapon damage, but without Lava Burst and the Wrath of Air Totem, you have less reach and need more (expensive) cards for lots of damage. The Token playstyle is pretty much dead with every (temporary) board buff rotating out.
Paladin isn't changing much, and actually gets stronger. But I can't take it seriously, when someone claims that Libram or Pure Paladin is an "aggressive" deck, lest they want to declare anything aggressive that summons minions before turn 6. The deck is as Midrange as it can get, in my opinion.
Druid, I think will actually stop being aggressive. Maybe the Token playstyle does survive, but with Savage Roar being the main finisher, and Blessing of the Ancients rotating as well, I feel Power of the Wild and Arbor Up just isn't good enough to keep it alive, but I might be wrong there.
The "feral" attacks in Druid could potentially be used for face damage, but here I go with history: Druid had these kind of cards very often, for long periods of time, and never used them this way. I think the only time when Druid hero attacks were somewhat scary was during the time of Malfurion the Pestilent. Slamming a bunch of one-time attacks at the face doesn't seem like a good win condition to me, especially in a class that already lacks good removal. And I definitely wouldn't go so far to rate them superior to Malygos combos.
I am not certain about Mage and Warlock. Warlock has some wide-board synergy left, but no Sea Giant. Some discard stuff, but can they really get enough pressure on the board? Without Soulfire, there's essentially no way to win without board advantage, and Zoo isn't particularly good (or rather: not outstanding) already.
Mage, on the other hand, has some burst damage left, but way less overall, requiring more of a build-up than pushing damage whenever it's possible or convenient. Even if a focus on Spell Damage remains a good strategy, I think it will slow down as well. Aegwynn, the Guardian will help significantly with consistency, though.
Finally, I think Warrior is gonna drop any aggressive style for the time being. What is left for face damage can not be utilized like explosive Pirate builds of previous metas, and the Enrage deck is dropping out as well. Maybe a midrange Warrior is possible, more like new Hunter decks, perhaps with a bigger emphasis on Weapon buffs (Nitroboost, Krastinov), but even that I struggle imagining. Again, kind of like Zoolock, it's not a great build now, with more useful cards still around.
Now, I can't predict the future, so I admit: Yes, sure they can release new burst cards as well. I don't think they will, or else they could have just left these cards in the Core set. I take the Core set as a statement that they wanted less and more expensive burst in the next year of Standard. For the time being, I assume that Barrens won't give us many unconditional damage spells for less than 4 or 5 mana, if any. And a 9 mana "basically Ragnaros" has to be viewed in context: Ragnaros was, at times, actually good enough in some decks with all the old burst options. Now, those options are (mostly) gone, and your opponent might have 5-10 more health on average in such situations. And decks relying on a 8, 9 or 10 mana finisher to win are on a different level than decks with Leeroy being the most expensive card, and can hardly be called "aggressive".
In case I haven't made it clear enough already, I think there will still be aggressive decks. But under these circumstances, and unless Barrens just adds all the stuff again that was just tossed out, I think many (but not all) classes will shift more to a midrange style, as they need to rely more on board advantage than burst.
I legitimately couldn't think of a common aggro class that is going to be less aggressive now. I wouldn't call token Shaman or Druid aggro decks really, and Arbor Up is a super strong card still. And I think Feral Rage/Moonlit Amulet will be used as a finisher just about as much as swipe was.
I guess what's being said here is aggro decks won't be able to finish off opponents with big midrange turn 6 burst turns. Which... okay. I think this is a good thing. We'll just be going back to the days when Ragnaros the Firelord was a suitable finishing card.
I am glad there is someone here who understands gameplay. Thank you.
Rag was rarely used as a finishing card outside of midrange and control though? (Sorry if I’ve misunderstood you here) Even King Krush was a relative rarity back in vanilla HS.
He definitely appeared in some lists but I can probably count on 1 had the amount of times a Face Hunter, Aggro Paladin or Zoo deck finished me off with Rag.
I was thinking more of like aggro warrior decks. Usually Rag was there as a finisher. It's obviously too expensive for zoo or face hunter. I don't remember what aggro paladin was in this context.
I'm talking more about like... post Blackrock era. After Face Hunter wasn't really around anymore. Before Pirate Warrior. I didn't really follow hearthstone TOO closely back then, but I remember there were a few aggro decks then that used Rag as a finisher like that. Because there just weren't better options.
My guess is they plan to print cards that would enable a Sorcerer's Apprentice + Antonidas OTK type combo over the course of the next two years, and don't want Antonidas in Core for that time, to prevent Mage from basically having the same OTK deck they've played on and off since the start of Hearthstone. He's the sort of card I'd see bouncing in and out of the Core Set depending on what else they're printing for Standard.
Yeah only demon hunter gets to keep its “face” archetype.
does anyone have a link to the official cards removal post?