I love how the first complaint dropped the interesting news that Counterspell has been in every mage deck ever, and people just go along with that . . . complaints are fun I guess.
It's been discussed already, i was simply exaggerating. It's been in most mage decks. And its not even the main point of my complaint. People just go along with that because the very point of this thread is to complain about some of the cards in the core set and all of them had interesting things to say.
So share your opinion like every one else and stop proving your own point by complaining about my complaint
Share your opinion like every one else . . .
Jesus, how much baggage of society is packed into those 7 words
Ok edge lord. This is a forum. You're not in the right place I think. Let me do you a favor and put you in my blacklist.
Uhhh, Illidari Inquisitor looks a bit troublesome to me...
DH has weapon equipped. Turn 8... drops this, clears something because of rush, then hits your face. And you take a free 8 damage.
Did they need this?
Otherwise, it all looks cool. Big shake up for standard this coming season. :)
If it's turn 8 and you have only one minion on board, you already lost the game.
Forget turn 8, this shits a DEMON. That means Raging Felscreamer will discount it. Very easy to have a weapon up on turn 6 and go to town on their ass with this card, easily my biggest nerf call of the set, the demon tag is super broken here.
Ok edge lord. This is a forum. You're not in the right place I think. Let me do you a favor and put you in my blacklist.
Holy shit, you can blacklist people! I have been trying find a while to delete that guy for a while now. This is great! It is like they don't exist anymore!
I wonder how druid players feel with savage roar rotating out? Do you think every expansion going forward will just always print some sort of token finisher card?
Ok edge lord. This is a forum. You're not in the right place I think. Let me do you a favor and put you in my blacklist.
Holy shit, you can blacklist people! I have been trying find a while to delete that guy for a while now. This is great! It is like they don't exist anymore!
Zomg, it's like . . . it's like a website has basic functionality. Holy shit!
In any case, I really don't understand the folks lamenting Shaman's selection. Seems to me there have been some serious buffs to relevant cards in both aggro and control facets. Lightning Storm's newfound certainty of 3 damage is the only undercosted answer to Arbor Up I can think of in standard, and though there are ways to double up on Arbor, there are easier ways to charge up the Storm with a spell damage or two.
From a more theoretical standpoint, Hearthstone will be going thru an experience familiar to all long-term Magic: the Gathering players. Magic has long been a place where older cards that were once hugely popular in standard get reprinted later, and players get to go thru the realization that power creep has left those cards behind . . . or that we are in for a second round of them for the next year.
Enchanted Raven caught my eye as one that was hugely prevalent 3 years ago, but I just don't see it happening now. Who knows?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's funny you say that, somebody today pointed out that the inverse is apparently true with Hunter. Hunter's evergreen cards were so strong, that they caused the Devs to make new Hunter cards lower quality on a broad level. Animal Companion, Kill Command, Tracking, Unleash the Hounds, Eaglehorn Bow, all saw at or above 50% inclusion in decks. This means, hopefully, that the cards released for it in the future will be above the power level we previously were allowed. I'd love it if Hunter got power creeped a little bit internally, now that its Core cards are so weak there's nowhere to go than up. I'm having trouble articulating my point. I'm optimistic for my favorite classes, I guess.
Ok edge lord. This is a forum. You're not in the right place I think. Let me do you a favor and put you in my blacklist.
Holy shit, you can blacklist people! I have been trying find a while to delete that guy for a while now. This is great! It is like they don't exist anymore!
Zomg, it's like . . . it's like a website has basic functionality. Holy shit!
In any case, I really don't understand the folks lamenting Shaman's selection. Seems to me there have been some serious buffs to relevant cards in both aggro and control facets. Lightning Storm's newfound certainty of 3 damage is the only undercosted answer to Arbor Up I can think of in standard, and though there are ways to double up on Arbor, there are easier ways to charge up the Storm with a spell damage or two.
From a more theoretical standpoint, Hearthstone will be going thru an experience familiar to all long-term Magic: the Gathering players. Magic has long been a place where older cards that were once hugely popular in standard get reprinted later, and players get to go thru the realization that power creep has left those cards behind . . . or that we are in for a second round of them for the next year.
Enchanted Raven caught my eye as one that was hugely prevalent 3 years ago, but I just don't see it happening now. Who knows?
The only good thing in the core set for shaman is the new changes to it's overload cards, which is a welcome addition, and Windspeaker gone. But besides that the class is now HIGHLY dependant on what the new expansions bring us, because it's current core set lacks in synergies. Token decks? forget it Bloodlust is gone. Burst shaman? Just Rock-biter and Lightning bolt doesn't cut it. And while Control shaman does look more appealing, still dependant on adding synergies. As a baseline Shaman is lacking.
Also, bold assumption to think HS will feel like Magic. We still have alot of RNG based cards. Less, but still alot there.
That's basically the essence of the desirability of Core set changes. Not having a group of cards that get thrown into every single deck of a class because the expansion cards can't measure up to the evergreen stuff.
Also, I made a specific comparison of one aspect of M:tg, not some general statement of the two games. For that matter, the whole allure of a digital card game is the possibility of RNG within mechanics. Beyond dice rolling and coin flipping, that's not very easy to accomplish in tabletop card games.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I wonder how druid players feel with savage roar rotating out? Do you think every expansion going forward will just always print some sort of token finisher card?
I think it removes a lot of cheap burst from druid. Which is... kind par for the course the whole core set. Burst is gonna be expensive to allow for more control and slower strategies.
Ok edge lord. This is a forum. You're not in the right place I think. Let me do you a favor and put you in my blacklist.
Holy shit, you can blacklist people! I have been trying find a while to delete that guy for a while now. This is great! It is like they don't exist anymore!
Zomg, it's like . . . it's like a website has basic functionality. Holy shit!
In any case, I really don't understand the folks lamenting Shaman's selection. Seems to me there have been some serious buffs to relevant cards in both aggro and control facets. Lightning Storm's newfound certainty of 3 damage is the only undercosted answer to Arbor Up I can think of in standard, and though there are ways to double up on Arbor, there are easier ways to charge up the Storm with a spell damage or two.
From a more theoretical standpoint, Hearthstone will be going thru an experience familiar to all long-term Magic: the Gathering players. Magic has long been a place where older cards that were once hugely popular in standard get reprinted later, and players get to go thru the realization that power creep has left those cards behind . . . or that we are in for a second round of them for the next year.
Enchanted Raven caught my eye as one that was hugely prevalent 3 years ago, but I just don't see it happening now. Who knows?
The only good thing in the core set for shaman is the new changes to it's overload cards, which is a welcome addition, and Windspeaker gone. But besides that the class is now HIGHLY dependant on what the new expansions bring us, because it's current core set lacks in synergies. Token decks? forget it Bloodlust is gone. Burst shaman? Just Rock-biter and Lightning bolt doesn't cut it. And while Control shaman does look more appealing, still dependant on adding synergies. As a baseline Shaman is lacking.
Also, bold assumption to think HS will feel like Magic. We still have alot of RNG based cards. Less, but still alot there.
Like this is literally every class right now. That's kinda the point of the core set. Here's a grab bag of different but relevant cards to use as a baseline for decks.
Consecration still same poop while Flamestrike gets buffed, makes total sense..... /irony off
Guess Dr00id and Pala are simply not allowed to have decent AoE, meanwhile Warrior losing their best (or should I say ALL their) Card Draw cards, wow.... as a Control player I'am so NOT hyped for March.
He was weak before now he is badly powercreeped by the new Alex and the new demon hunter's 8\8. I'd very much prefer they brought back some hunter legendary from the wild.
I really hope that Blizzard will continue to decrease the powerlevel of the core set in the next years to increase the power gap between standard and wild so that both formats feel more different and don't interfere with each other in the form of nerfs.
People need to understand that this is a core set. The core set is supposed to be rather low power level and it used to be like that before these changes were anounced (overall, I am obviously not talking about Apprentice-like power cards, only). That's healthy for the game because new cards have a higher impact on the meta, which, surprisingly, is good for Blizzard's wallets, which is a completely legit design choice.
Regarding the individual cards, we have to be seen how the meta turns out. However, removing Wrath and Swipe was too much imo and the 8-cost dh demon is indeed scary. I understand that they want to push big demons dh as an archtype and I like that but this is too much of a face card. If they add "minion" after "enemy", the card is completely fine and not problematic at all.
It feels a lot like they want to push certain playstyles for each class, but I think that it's questionnable whether this is a good way of implementing class identity. As a priest, warrior, shaman, am I not allowed to draw any cards? Am I not allowed board clears in my class, or burst, or literally any decent control tools? That's something that worries me about the core set, but we really need to see the impact on the standard meta. If I can't do anything cool in standard and have fun there, well, there is wild still, after all. Or any other mode really.
I really hope that Blizzard will continue to decrease the powerlevel of the core set in the next years to increase the power gap between standard and wild so that both formats feel more different and don't interfere with each other in the form of nerfs.
Are we looking at the same Core Set? Core Set is, on average, is much stronger than the old basic\class sets.
I suppose when I saw the announcement of a core set I assumed it would be a natural evolution of the classic and basic sets with a few cards added, a few cards changed, and a few taken away. This would be revised after each expansion with cards coming and going but with the bulk of the core set remaining.
My ideal vision of HS is a one where the core set maintains a large set of cards spanning most of the various deck archetypes that we know and love (Freeze Mage, Handlock, Shodow Priest, Face Hunter etc) along with the various overarching minion types (Murlocs, Mechs, Beasts, Pirates etc). So from a deck building pov we can always rely on their being a lot to play around with. The expansions would rotate out 1 at a time too, so we always have a similar card pool to choose from, instead of the lopsided way things are currently done where we have over 300 more cards at the end of a year than we do the start.
*For reference the Classic and Basic sets had around 150 more cards than the Core set.
He was weak before now he is badly powercreeped by the new Alex and the new demon hunter's 8\8. I'd very much prefer they brought back some hunter legendary from the wild.
Yeah. There are some really disappointing choices in this set and that is one of the biggest. With such a small pool of cards chosen they really needed to knock it out the park with what they were bringing back and they haven’t done that.
The new minions and most of the changes to cards they’ve made are great. It’s strange that they’ve introduced a whole new cool take on the legendary dragons and then just thrown the likes of King Krush into the set seemingly without thought.
Most notably Counterspell, this card has been in what, 100% of all mage decks in the past 7 years ? It's not fun to play against, it's polarizing, it's punishing slow decks way too much for its cost.
You lost all credibility posting this. Counterspell has been rarely seen, other then agro secret mage it has never been a staple.
Nevertheless I hate the new DH 8 drop that hits ur face.
I think the changes are good, but there are a couple of things that worry me.
1) Big Game Hunter at 4 mana. People who didn't play before the nerf to 5 mana, weren't aware of what a big of an impact this card was. The nerf was intended to make the card unviable for aggressive dead who could destroy big minions and apply more pressure in the same turn. I hope this turns out well.
2) Illidari Inquisitor MAY be oppresive because there are many means of cheating him out and exploit face damage. It will get nerfed to ONLY minions, I believe.
Apart from those, I like all the others. Fire Elemental is acutally good now and generally speaking there are strong cards that can be utilized be new players. Personally I don't like this orientation, but it's healthy for the game, nonetheless.
I really hope that Blizzard will continue to decrease the powerlevel of the core set in the next years to increase the power gap between standard and wild so that both formats feel more different and don't interfere with each other in the form of nerfs.
Are we looking at the same Core Set? Core Set is, on average, is much stronger than the old basic\class sets.
What I meant to say is that they limit the number of stables of every class and reduce the power spikes, which are the only playables in the Core set or claassic/basic set anyway. Nobody cares about Booty Bay Bodyguard. Every class lost something and, outside of demon hunter and warlock, looks quite a bit weaker to me now. Of course, the average power level is increased because a lot of bad stuff leaves, but don't get fooled by upgrades to cards like Deathwing or Ysera, which were never seen outside of random card generation in the first place.
King Krush is a strange issue because what's the point of Dinotamer Brann if you could just play it at 8 mana yourself? Do you want it to be a 10/10 or what else?
Regarding BGH, 4 mana is probably the place where the card should have been anyway. I am pretty confident that mostly rogues and druids will use him, if they can't find any hard removal in a set. The card seems fine as is.
I am more concerned about the impact of Flamestrike, and to some extent Fire Elemental, on arena. Praise our Jaina Arena Overlords for the upcoming year!
Ok so every class basically lost an arm or a leg and it seems like we can all say "wow my favorite class got totally screwed!" but if that goes all around (maybe except warlock) then things should feel pretty refreshing right? We're gonna struggle with getting enough draws and putting dedicated aggro/control cards together, making standard feel more like arena. Full of makeshift mid range decks, trying to both win with curve and value.
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Ok edge lord. This is a forum. You're not in the right place I think. Let me do you a favor and put you in my blacklist.
Forget turn 8, this shits a DEMON. That means Raging Felscreamer will discount it. Very easy to have a weapon up on turn 6 and go to town on their ass with this card, easily my biggest nerf call of the set, the demon tag is super broken here.
Holy shit, you can blacklist people! I have been trying find a while to delete that guy for a while now. This is great! It is like they don't exist anymore!
Not sure how cards like river crocolisk made the cut when there are literally other core set cards that are 2/3 and better
I wonder how druid players feel with savage roar rotating out? Do you think every expansion going forward will just always print some sort of token finisher card?
Zomg, it's like . . . it's like a website has basic functionality. Holy shit!
In any case, I really don't understand the folks lamenting Shaman's selection. Seems to me there have been some serious buffs to relevant cards in both aggro and control facets. Lightning Storm's newfound certainty of 3 damage is the only undercosted answer to Arbor Up I can think of in standard, and though there are ways to double up on Arbor, there are easier ways to charge up the Storm with a spell damage or two.
From a more theoretical standpoint, Hearthstone will be going thru an experience familiar to all long-term Magic: the Gathering players. Magic has long been a place where older cards that were once hugely popular in standard get reprinted later, and players get to go thru the realization that power creep has left those cards behind . . . or that we are in for a second round of them for the next year.
Enchanted Raven caught my eye as one that was hugely prevalent 3 years ago, but I just don't see it happening now. Who knows?
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's funny you say that, somebody today pointed out that the inverse is apparently true with Hunter. Hunter's evergreen cards were so strong, that they caused the Devs to make new Hunter cards lower quality on a broad level. Animal Companion, Kill Command, Tracking, Unleash the Hounds, Eaglehorn Bow, all saw at or above 50% inclusion in decks.
This means, hopefully, that the cards released for it in the future will be above the power level we previously were allowed. I'd love it if Hunter got power creeped a little bit internally, now that its Core cards are so weak there's nowhere to go than up. I'm having trouble articulating my point. I'm optimistic for my favorite classes, I guess.
please don't bully my son
The only good thing in the core set for shaman is the new changes to it's overload cards, which is a welcome addition, and Windspeaker gone. But besides that the class is now HIGHLY dependant on what the new expansions bring us, because it's current core set lacks in synergies. Token decks? forget it Bloodlust is gone. Burst shaman? Just Rock-biter and Lightning bolt doesn't cut it. And while Control shaman does look more appealing, still dependant on adding synergies. As a baseline Shaman is lacking.
Also, bold assumption to think HS will feel like Magic. We still have alot of RNG based cards. Less, but still alot there.
That's basically the essence of the desirability of Core set changes. Not having a group of cards that get thrown into every single deck of a class because the expansion cards can't measure up to the evergreen stuff.
Also, I made a specific comparison of one aspect of M:tg, not some general statement of the two games. For that matter, the whole allure of a digital card game is the possibility of RNG within mechanics. Beyond dice rolling and coin flipping, that's not very easy to accomplish in tabletop card games.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I think it removes a lot of cheap burst from druid. Which is... kind par for the course the whole core set. Burst is gonna be expensive to allow for more control and slower strategies.
Like this is literally every class right now. That's kinda the point of the core set. Here's a grab bag of different but relevant cards to use as a baseline for decks.
Consecration still same poop while Flamestrike gets buffed, makes total sense..... /irony off
Guess Dr00id and Pala are simply not allowed to have decent AoE, meanwhile Warrior losing their best (or should I say ALL their) Card Draw cards, wow.... as a Control player I'am so NOT hyped for March.
Found a card that annoys me - King Krush
He was weak before now he is badly powercreeped by the new Alex and the new demon hunter's 8\8. I'd very much prefer they brought back some hunter legendary from the wild.
I really hope that Blizzard will continue to decrease the powerlevel of the core set in the next years to increase the power gap between standard and wild so that both formats feel more different and don't interfere with each other in the form of nerfs.
People need to understand that this is a core set. The core set is supposed to be rather low power level and it used to be like that before these changes were anounced (overall, I am obviously not talking about Apprentice-like power cards, only). That's healthy for the game because new cards have a higher impact on the meta, which, surprisingly, is good for Blizzard's wallets, which is a completely legit design choice.
Regarding the individual cards, we have to be seen how the meta turns out. However, removing Wrath and Swipe was too much imo and the 8-cost dh demon is indeed scary. I understand that they want to push big demons dh as an archtype and I like that but this is too much of a face card. If they add "minion" after "enemy", the card is completely fine and not problematic at all.
It feels a lot like they want to push certain playstyles for each class, but I think that it's questionnable whether this is a good way of implementing class identity. As a priest, warrior, shaman, am I not allowed to draw any cards? Am I not allowed board clears in my class, or burst, or literally any decent control tools? That's something that worries me about the core set, but we really need to see the impact on the standard meta. If I can't do anything cool in standard and have fun there, well, there is wild still, after all. Or any other mode really.
Are we looking at the same Core Set? Core Set is, on average, is much stronger than the old basic\class sets.
I suppose when I saw the announcement of a core set I assumed it would be a natural evolution of the classic and basic sets with a few cards added, a few cards changed, and a few taken away. This would be revised after each expansion with cards coming and going but with the bulk of the core set remaining.
My ideal vision of HS is a one where the core set maintains a large set of cards spanning most of the various deck archetypes that we know and love (Freeze Mage, Handlock, Shodow Priest, Face Hunter etc) along with the various overarching minion types (Murlocs, Mechs, Beasts, Pirates etc). So from a deck building pov we can always rely on their being a lot to play around with. The expansions would rotate out 1 at a time too, so we always have a similar card pool to choose from, instead of the lopsided way things are currently done where we have over 300 more cards at the end of a year than we do the start.
*For reference the Classic and Basic sets had around 150 more cards than the Core set.
Yeah. There are some really disappointing choices in this set and that is one of the biggest. With such a small pool of cards chosen they really needed to knock it out the park with what they were bringing back and they haven’t done that.
The new minions and most of the changes to cards they’ve made are great. It’s strange that they’ve introduced a whole new cool take on the legendary dragons and then just thrown the likes of King Krush into the set seemingly without thought.
You lost all credibility posting this. Counterspell has been rarely seen, other then agro secret mage it has never been a staple.
Nevertheless I hate the new DH 8 drop that hits ur face.
I think the changes are good, but there are a couple of things that worry me.
1) Big Game Hunter at 4 mana. People who didn't play before the nerf to 5 mana, weren't aware of what a big of an impact this card was. The nerf was intended to make the card unviable for aggressive dead who could destroy big minions and apply more pressure in the same turn. I hope this turns out well.
2) Illidari Inquisitor MAY be oppresive because there are many means of cheating him out and exploit face damage. It will get nerfed to ONLY minions, I believe.
Apart from those, I like all the others. Fire Elemental is acutally good now and generally speaking there are strong cards that can be utilized be new players. Personally I don't like this orientation, but it's healthy for the game, nonetheless.
What I meant to say is that they limit the number of stables of every class and reduce the power spikes, which are the only playables in the Core set or claassic/basic set anyway. Nobody cares about Booty Bay Bodyguard. Every class lost something and, outside of demon hunter and warlock, looks quite a bit weaker to me now. Of course, the average power level is increased because a lot of bad stuff leaves, but don't get fooled by upgrades to cards like Deathwing or Ysera, which were never seen outside of random card generation in the first place.
King Krush is a strange issue because what's the point of Dinotamer Brann if you could just play it at 8 mana yourself? Do you want it to be a 10/10 or what else?
Regarding BGH, 4 mana is probably the place where the card should have been anyway. I am pretty confident that mostly rogues and druids will use him, if they can't find any hard removal in a set. The card seems fine as is.
I am more concerned about the impact of Flamestrike, and to some extent Fire Elemental, on arena. Praise our Jaina Arena Overlords for the upcoming year!
Ok so every class basically lost an arm or a leg and it seems like we can all say "wow my favorite class got totally screwed!" but if that goes all around (maybe except warlock) then things should feel pretty refreshing right? We're gonna struggle with getting enough draws and putting dedicated aggro/control cards together, making standard feel more like arena. Full of makeshift mid range decks, trying to both win with curve and value.