7 mana discard 1 enemy minion. Or 12 mana discard 2. Right. On turns 7 and 8 thats what u wanna do. Skip ur turn ignoring board state etc. Plus you aren't even aware that they are changing the basic and classic set so we dont even know of brewmaster is gonna be in the coreset.
Discounts or not u are skipping ur turn to kill one enemy minion that isnt even on board OMEGALUL and KEKW just had a child
Nobody uses brewmaster to bounce back Tickatus and that kills 5 cards for 6 mana, so why in the world would anyone bother to do this? It’s really that simple.
dude, this is gonna get pulled by Dane and that mcKanzie dude. other than that, you've got bigger problems than 7 mana discard 1 random card from your opponent.
Can't believe this is even being discussed
Come now, Dane doesn't do this kind of horrifically suboptimal play. Wanky and silly, sure, but this is just plain bad.
Nobody uses brewmaster to bounce back Tickatus and that kills 5 cards for 6 mana, so why in the world would anyone bother to do this? It’s really that simple.
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
I like how everyone thinks of himself as a great card evaluator but in reality every expansion we are horribly wrong about most cards, we think we learn to be more accurate every expansion but in reality game mechanics and cards combinations evolve much faster than our ability to review them.
I don't see this particular combo as being problematic, but I can absolutely see a world where someone makes Felsoul Jailer problematic in some way or another. If you can make copies of it, silence it or whatever, it can quickly become a crazy anti-control/anti-combo card.
Comparison with tickatus is also unfair, the reason you don't brewmaster tickatus is because you can felosophy it instead, and also because it already costs 13 mana to corrupt and play. And it burns cards from the deck, essentially having 0 immediate impact in exchange for bigger impact later in the game. Felsoul jailer has immediate, potentially massive impact if he burns the right card, so brewmaster makes more sense.
In the grand scheme of things, it's like Tickatus, never going to be problematic because Hearthstone will always be an aggro driven game, but i'm positive a lot of hearthstone toxic members and great card reviewers are going to cry a river because Felsoul discarded their wincondition and they couldn't get back the card in time.
By "problematic", I mean that the combo causes problems for some decks / types of gameplay. In particular, combo decks (or even some control decks) that rely on one or two specific minions in hand for it to work.
Meca'thun, for example would be a perfect target at this point whereas Tickatus would just look stupid sitting there uselessly on the board.
The issue is that you narrow down the context so much that, yes, it could be considered problematic in those specific circumstances.
In those cases people generally refer to it as a counter or tech against those niche conditions and if that had been your thread, you have a point to some degree: Jailer and any form of silence, transform or bounce would disrupt decks with few but key minions.
As people pointed out, a panda on T7+ isn’t any tempo and would set you back, but maybe you don’t need much as this play wins you the game.
That however requires a specific meta where these decks dominate and Jailer combos don’t disrupt their win rate enough to push them out.
The other question with the core set is of course if we will see the pandas.
So in conclusion, yes, this (panda or other negator) could be a useful counter in a specific meta, but it’s too early to say what we will see next rotation.
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
It is indeed rather bemusing how many people seem to be losing their collective minds over the fact that I am personally concerned about a particular card and its interactions and that this was merely my opinion and certainly not written as being "hard fact". Lol I didn't realise people valued my opinions so highly around here! ;-) I'm probably flattered. Or something! Ahem! One person even raged about why I thought the card was "broken", even though it explicitly states I didn't think that, in the OP. I mean, the guy could at least read the post before randomly spitting his dummy out? Lol!
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
It is indeed rather bemusing how many people seem to be losing their collective minds over the fact that I am personally concerned about a particular card and its interactions and that this was merely my opinion and certainly not written as being "hard fact". Lol I didn't realise people valued my opinions so highly around here! ;-) I'm probably flattered. Or something! Ahem! One person even raged about why I thought the card was "broken", even though it explicitly states I didn't think that, in the OP. I mean, the guy could at least read the post before randomly spitting his dummy out? Lol!
Ah well! :-D
Welcome to the internet!
OT: This will hardly be problematic. Hearthstone has had single cards that does the same but better (e.g. Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu) and they did not break the game. Besides, Hearthstone has seen a lot of aggro decks lately and this would be a horrible combo to use against such decks.
Maybe if very specific combo decks becomes a thing but then you would probably just use Ticktatus instead. One mana less and he destroys 5 cards.
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
It is indeed rather bemusing how many people seem to be losing their collective minds over the fact that I am personally concerned about a particular card and its interactions and that this was merely my opinion and certainly not written as being "hard fact". Lol I didn't realise people valued my opinions so highly around here! ;-) I'm probably flattered. Or something! Ahem! One person even raged about why I thought the card was "broken", even though it explicitly states I didn't think that, in the OP. I mean, the guy could at least read the post before randomly spitting his dummy out? Lol!
Ah well! :-D
Welcome to the internet!
OT: This will hardly be problematic. Hearthstone has had single cards that does the same but better (e.g. Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu) and they did not break the game. Besides, Hearthstone has seen a lot of aggro decks lately and this would be a horrible combo to use against such decks.
Maybe if very specific combo decks becomes a thing but then you would probably just use Ticktatus instead. One mana less and he destroys 5 cards.
Agreed. Let me just reiterate though :- (for the sake of other people who may choose to misinterpret what I am saying once more) 1. I do not think this breaks the game. 2. I do not think this card is "broken". 3. I do not think this card will break / kill the meta, or anything to that effect. 4. I do not think this card is any use against aggro decks (seriously, why do people keep getting hung up on aggro decks here? Aggro decks have their own big counters to deal with). Not to mention that this can be a HUGEbenefit to a good tempo deck that stalls your opponent's ability to keep up. 5. There is really nothing wrong with speculation on new cards and mechanics. I mean, people laughed at cards like Tickatus and Carnival Clown etc and look what happened there! ;-)
I do, however, think - in my humble opinion - that this card is likely to cause problems for any decks which rely on specific minions to achieve their win condition. Mozaki, Yogg, Mallygoose, etc etc. It doesn't even require the Brewmaster to be that problem. If you can stall a combo deck by even one turn, it can be enough to win. Tickatus is also a problem for these decks. As are any cards that allow removal from hand / deck. Once again, though - I don't believe any of these cards are broken or ruin the game or anything to that effect.
Is Tickatus better at removing cards from your opponent's deck? Yes, of course. Is he better at forcing the opponent to discard a card he had been holding onto to complete his OTK kill? Definitely not. In fact, he's useless at that point.
I like this interaction. Although slightly different reminds me of Moat Lurker which was a fun card. Would have been more problematic if witchy Lackey had still been around but locks are going to have problems permanently keeping the card out of your hand. I would also be more tempted to Ironbeak Owl (if it stays in rotation) my own minion to keep the stats on board and owl is probably more versatile.
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
It is indeed rather bemusing how many people seem to be losing their collective minds over the fact that I am personally concerned about a particular card and its interactions and that this was merely my opinion and certainly not written as being "hard fact". Lol I didn't realise people valued my opinions so highly around here! ;-) I'm probably flattered. Or something! Ahem! One person even raged about why I thought the card was "broken", even though it explicitly states I didn't think that, in the OP. I mean, the guy could at least read the post before randomly spitting his dummy out? Lol!
Ah well! :-D
Welcome to the internet!
OT: This will hardly be problematic. Hearthstone has had single cards that does the same but better (e.g. Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu) and they did not break the game. Besides, Hearthstone has seen a lot of aggro decks lately and this would be a horrible combo to use against such decks.
Maybe if very specific combo decks becomes a thing but then you would probably just use Ticktatus instead. One mana less and he destroys 5 cards.
Agreed. Let me just reiterate though :- (for the sake of other people who may choose to misinterpret what I am saying once more) 1. I do not think this breaks the game. 2. I do not think this card is "broken". 3. I do not think this card will break / kill the meta, or anything to that effect. 4. I do not think this card is any use against aggro decks (seriously, why do people keep getting hung up on aggro decks here? Aggro decks have their own big counters to deal with). Not to mention that this can be a HUGEbenefit to a good tempo deck that stalls your opponent's ability to keep up. 5. There is really nothing wrong with speculation on new cards and mechanics. I mean, people laughed at cards like Tickatus and Carnival Clown etc and look what happened there! ;-)
I do, however, think - in my humble opinion - that this card is likely to cause problems for any decks which rely on specific minions to achieve their win condition. Mozaki, Yogg, Mallygoose, etc etc. It doesn't even require the Brewmaster to be that problem. If you can stall a combo deck by even one turn, it can be enough to win. Tickatus is also a problem for these decks. As are any cards that allow removal from hand / deck. Once again, though - I don't believe any of these cards are broken or ruin the game or anything to that effect.
Is Tickatus better at removing cards from your opponent's deck? Yes, of course. Is he better at forcing the opponent to discard a card he had been holding onto to complete his OTK kill? Definitely not. In fact, he's useless at that point.
It was not my intention to say you think the combo breaks the game - though I can see I frased it that way. It is still very RNG dependent and not a reliable way to remove a specific card. Say you want to target Malygos and the opponent has 8 cards in his hand. You are spending 7 mana for a 1/8 chance to disrupt his win condition. Otherwise you might just remove a random survivel tool or a burn spell that might not save you. Combo decks usually draw a lot of cards and have big hands. The only deck I can think that consistenly would be fucked by this combo is mechathun priest.
And not all combo decks keep their finishers in their opening hand. If I were to survive an aggressive meta I would keep Malygos and other high end finishers out of my hand because they are a terrible draw in the early game - I'd rather draw cards or keep removal to survive. Thus, a card like Ticktatus moves between 5 and 15 cards from your opponents deck. That is a lot better and a lot more consistent. Because you might not remove Malygos but removing 3 or 4 burst spells? That sucks.
I mean, if anything I would say Silence and Transform effects seem more problematic with it, if any will be in the Core set, right now it's only Ironbeak Owl in Classic and Showstopper (which is not immediate) in Madness at the Darkmoon Faire, the rest is going to Wild with rotation.
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
It is indeed rather bemusing how many people seem to be losing their collective minds over the fact that I am personally concerned about a particular card and its interactions and that this was merely my opinion and certainly not written as being "hard fact". Lol I didn't realise people valued my opinions so highly around here! ;-) I'm probably flattered. Or something! Ahem! One person even raged about why I thought the card was "broken", even though it explicitly states I didn't think that, in the OP. I mean, the guy could at least read the post before randomly spitting his dummy out? Lol!
Ah well! :-D
Welcome to the internet!
OT: This will hardly be problematic. Hearthstone has had single cards that does the same but better (e.g. Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu) and they did not break the game. Besides, Hearthstone has seen a lot of aggro decks lately and this would be a horrible combo to use against such decks.
Maybe if very specific combo decks becomes a thing but then you would probably just use Ticktatus instead. One mana less and he destroys 5 cards.
Agreed. Let me just reiterate though :- (for the sake of other people who may choose to misinterpret what I am saying once more) 1. I do not think this breaks the game. 2. I do not think this card is "broken". 3. I do not think this card will break / kill the meta, or anything to that effect. 4. I do not think this card is any use against aggro decks (seriously, why do people keep getting hung up on aggro decks here? Aggro decks have their own big counters to deal with). Not to mention that this can be a HUGEbenefit to a good tempo deck that stalls your opponent's ability to keep up. 5. There is really nothing wrong with speculation on new cards and mechanics. I mean, people laughed at cards like Tickatus and Carnival Clown etc and look what happened there! ;-)
I do, however, think - in my humble opinion - that this card is likely to cause problems for any decks which rely on specific minions to achieve their win condition. Mozaki, Yogg, Mallygoose, etc etc. It doesn't even require the Brewmaster to be that problem. If you can stall a combo deck by even one turn, it can be enough to win. Tickatus is also a problem for these decks. As are any cards that allow removal from hand / deck. Once again, though - I don't believe any of these cards are broken or ruin the game or anything to that effect.
Is Tickatus better at removing cards from your opponent's deck? Yes, of course. Is he better at forcing the opponent to discard a card he had been holding onto to complete his OTK kill? Definitely not. In fact, he's useless at that point.
It was not my intention to say you think the combo breaks the game - though I can see I frased it that way. It is still very RNG dependent and not a reliable way to remove a specific card. Say you want to target Malygos and the opponent has 8 cards in his hand. You are spending 7 mana for a 1/8 chance to disrupt his win condition. Otherwise you might just remove a random survivel tool or a burn spell that might not save you. Combo decks usually draw a lot of cards and have big hands. The only deck I can think that consistenly would be fucked by this combo is mechathun priest.
And not all combo decks keep their finishers in their opening hand. If I were to survive an aggressive meta I would keep Malygos and other high end finishers out of my hand because they are a terrible draw in the early game - I'd rather draw cards or keep removal to survive. Thus, a card like Ticktatus moves between 5 and 15 cards from your opponents deck. That is a lot better and a lot more consistent. Because you might not remove Malygos but removing 3 or 4 burst spells? That sucks.
Just a minor correction: in the situation you laid out, you do not have a 1/8 chance of discarding Malygos. Felsoul Jailer targets minions, not cards. So if your opponent only has a bunch of damage spells plus Malygos in hand, this card will hit its intended target.
That doesn't mean the card or combo will be a problem or even a particularly good play, but it would be more effective/ useful than if it merely discarded random cards rather than minions.
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
I like how everyone thinks of himself as a great card evaluator but in reality every expansion we are horribly wrong about most cards, we think we learn to be more accurate every expansion but in reality game mechanics and cards combinations evolve much faster than our ability to review them.
I don't see this particular combo as being problematic, but I can absolutely see a world where someone makes Felsoul Jailer problematic in some way or another. If you can make copies of it, silence it or whatever, it can quickly become a crazy anti-control/anti-combo card.
Comparison with tickatus is also unfair, the reason you don't brewmaster tickatus is because you can felosophy it instead, and also because it already costs 13 mana to corrupt and play. And it burns cards from the deck, essentially having 0 immediate impact in exchange for bigger impact later in the game. Felsoul jailer has immediate, potentially massive impact if he burns the right card, so brewmaster makes more sense.
In the grand scheme of things, it's like Tickatus, never going to be problematic because Hearthstone will always be an aggro driven game, but i'm positive a lot of hearthstone toxic members and great card reviewers are going to cry a river because Felsoul discarded their wincondition and they couldn't get back the card in time.
Agreed, it shows the state of the forums when everytime someone puts something people don't agree with and it becomes a hivemind of people snarking and bullying and getting their self satisfying little pathetic jabs in from the safety of behind their own screen. What do mods do about it? Nothing.
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You must be a guy who was probably worried about something like Magtheridon + Hellfire haha...jesus
I can see this being problematic for the hearthpwn community, judging by the tier 4 tickatus precedent.
7 mana discard 1 enemy minion. Or 12 mana discard 2. Right. On turns 7 and 8 thats what u wanna do. Skip ur turn ignoring board state etc. Plus you aren't even aware that they are changing the basic and classic set so we dont even know of brewmaster is gonna be in the coreset.
Discounts or not u are skipping ur turn to kill one enemy minion that isnt even on board OMEGALUL and KEKW just had a child
Nobody uses brewmaster to bounce back Tickatus and that kills 5 cards for 6 mana, so why in the world would anyone bother to do this? It’s really that simple.
Come now, Dane doesn't do this kind of horrifically suboptimal play. Wanky and silly, sure, but this is just plain bad.
Your evaluation of what is and is not problematic seems problematic to me..
My god you guys are so toxic.. The op is being respectful and reasonable, says things like "it SEEMS problematic TO ME", can't you just tell him why you think he's wrong ?
I like how everyone thinks of himself as a great card evaluator but in reality every expansion we are horribly wrong about most cards, we think we learn to be more accurate every expansion but in reality game mechanics and cards combinations evolve much faster than our ability to review them.
I don't see this particular combo as being problematic, but I can absolutely see a world where someone makes Felsoul Jailer problematic in some way or another. If you can make copies of it, silence it or whatever, it can quickly become a crazy anti-control/anti-combo card.
Comparison with tickatus is also unfair, the reason you don't brewmaster tickatus is because you can felosophy it instead, and also because it already costs 13 mana to corrupt and play. And it burns cards from the deck, essentially having 0 immediate impact in exchange for bigger impact later in the game. Felsoul jailer has immediate, potentially massive impact if he burns the right card, so brewmaster makes more sense.
In the grand scheme of things, it's like Tickatus, never going to be problematic because Hearthstone will always be an aggro driven game, but i'm positive a lot of hearthstone toxic members and great card reviewers are going to cry a river because Felsoul discarded their wincondition and they couldn't get back the card in time.
The issue is that you narrow down the context so much that, yes, it could be considered problematic in those specific circumstances.
In those cases people generally refer to it as a counter or tech against those niche conditions and if that had been your thread, you have a point to some degree: Jailer and any form of silence, transform or bounce would disrupt decks with few but key minions.
As people pointed out, a panda on T7+ isn’t any tempo and would set you back, but maybe you don’t need much as this play wins you the game.
That however requires a specific meta where these decks dominate and Jailer combos don’t disrupt their win rate enough to push them out.
The other question with the core set is of course if we will see the pandas.
So in conclusion, yes, this (panda or other negator) could be a useful counter in a specific meta, but it’s too early to say what we will see next rotation.
It is indeed rather bemusing how many people seem to be losing their collective minds over the fact that I am personally concerned about a particular card and its interactions and that this was merely my opinion and certainly not written as being "hard fact". Lol I didn't realise people valued my opinions so highly around here! ;-)
I'm probably flattered. Or something! Ahem!
One person even raged about why I thought the card was "broken", even though it explicitly states I didn't think that, in the OP.
I mean, the guy could at least read the post before randomly spitting his dummy out? Lol!
Ah well! :-D
Welcome to the internet!
OT:
This will hardly be problematic. Hearthstone has had single cards that does the same but better (e.g. Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu) and they did not break the game. Besides, Hearthstone has seen a lot of aggro decks lately and this would be a horrible combo to use against such decks.
Maybe if very specific combo decks becomes a thing but then you would probably just use Ticktatus instead. One mana less and he destroys 5 cards.
Agreed.
Let me just reiterate though :- (for the sake of other people who may choose to misinterpret what I am saying once more)
1. I do not think this breaks the game.
2. I do not think this card is "broken".
3. I do not think this card will break / kill the meta, or anything to that effect.
4. I do not think this card is any use against aggro decks (seriously, why do people keep getting hung up on aggro decks here? Aggro decks have their own big counters to deal with). Not to mention that this can be a HUGE benefit to a good tempo deck that stalls your opponent's ability to keep up.
5. There is really nothing wrong with speculation on new cards and mechanics. I mean, people laughed at cards like Tickatus and Carnival Clown etc and look what happened there! ;-)
I do, however, think - in my humble opinion - that this card is likely to cause problems for any decks which rely on specific minions to achieve their win condition. Mozaki, Yogg, Mallygoose, etc etc. It doesn't even require the Brewmaster to be that problem. If you can stall a combo deck by even one turn, it can be enough to win.
Tickatus is also a problem for these decks. As are any cards that allow removal from hand / deck.
Once again, though - I don't believe any of these cards are broken or ruin the game or anything to that effect.
Is Tickatus better at removing cards from your opponent's deck? Yes, of course.
Is he better at forcing the opponent to discard a card he had been holding onto to complete his OTK kill? Definitely not. In fact, he's useless at that point.
I like this interaction. Although slightly different reminds me of Moat Lurker which was a fun card. Would have been more problematic if witchy Lackey had still been around but locks are going to have problems permanently keeping the card out of your hand. I would also be more tempted to Ironbeak Owl (if it stays in rotation) my own minion to keep the stats on board and owl is probably more versatile.
It was not my intention to say you think the combo breaks the game - though I can see I frased it that way. It is still very RNG dependent and not a reliable way to remove a specific card. Say you want to target Malygos and the opponent has 8 cards in his hand. You are spending 7 mana for a 1/8 chance to disrupt his win condition. Otherwise you might just remove a random survivel tool or a burn spell that might not save you. Combo decks usually draw a lot of cards and have big hands. The only deck I can think that consistenly would be fucked by this combo is mechathun priest.
And not all combo decks keep their finishers in their opening hand. If I were to survive an aggressive meta I would keep Malygos and other high end finishers out of my hand because they are a terrible draw in the early game - I'd rather draw cards or keep removal to survive. Thus, a card like Ticktatus moves between 5 and 15 cards from your opponents deck. That is a lot better and a lot more consistent. Because you might not remove Malygos but removing 3 or 4 burst spells? That sucks.
Having this combo in your deck maby grants you a 1% winrate
I mean, if anything I would say Silence and Transform effects seem more problematic with it, if any will be in the Core set, right now it's only Ironbeak Owl in Classic and Showstopper (which is not immediate) in Madness at the Darkmoon Faire, the rest is going to Wild with rotation.
Just a minor correction: in the situation you laid out, you do not have a 1/8 chance of discarding Malygos. Felsoul Jailer targets minions, not cards. So if your opponent only has a bunch of damage spells plus Malygos in hand, this card will hit its intended target.
That doesn't mean the card or combo will be a problem or even a particularly good play, but it would be more effective/ useful than if it merely discarded random cards rather than minions.
A 7 mana 3/2, world ending
Agreed, it shows the state of the forums when everytime someone puts something people don't agree with and it becomes a hivemind of people snarking and bullying and getting their self satisfying little pathetic jabs in from the safety of behind their own screen. What do mods do about it? Nothing.