During today's Q&A, some of the developers were asked if there were any plans to change how the dust economy works. Game Director Ben Lee's answer to this question has pissed me off and I need to rant about it. If you're tired of negativity don't read, I just really need to get this off my chest.
The first part of Lee's response was to mention the meta-viable deck that were given to returning players. In fact, it seems all he focused on was new or returning players, and didn't give a thought to long-time players. For example, I don't know much about those decks that were given out, as I (like many players) didn't get one. However, I can't imagine they're actually that great since the Hearthstone team is constantly making balance changes (which is a healthy thing for the game but still poses problems) that shake up the meta. How long will those meta-relevant decks be relevant at all? If you got evolve shaman a few weeks ago I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed now.
The second thing Lee mentioned was the generosity of the core set that would be given to all players. But this is misleading because the core set is not a gift, it is compensation. It's compensation for the removal of the basic and classic sets as we knew them. Sets that we were promised would permanent. I'm not saying that rotating them isn't the right move, on the contrary, I think it's a great idea that will be healthy for the game, but I refuse to let them act like proper compensation is a gift of generosity.
Lee concluded with saying that the dust economy (which hasn't changed since the game launched, would not be changed. What bull.
Ideally, I would like them to tweak the dust economy to make it better for players. At the very least, I'd them to be plain and just say that they have no intention of changing it without adding all the other bs like the free deck and free core set to make it seem like they've done stuff for us when they really haven't. The only really great thing they've gotten right was duplicate protection, though honestly I think that should have been in place from launch. The new rewards track is also pretty good now that they fixed it after the initial backlash.
The dust economy is precisely intertwined and equivalent with the gold economy. The cost of enchanting and disenchanting is a very specific cost that reflects on the rarity of the cards. Other games usually work at a monetary loss with their crafting systems making up the costs elsewhere, while Hearthstone does not and is one of the most expensive online card games to create and maintain.
How exactly would you propose to fix the dust economy? It is much easier to say 'fix it' than to actually fix it --- it's not entirely a simple problem; there already is a balance and changing one thing causes more problems elsewhere to then fix. I suppose they could just double the value of dust, but then that's a huge loss of revenue (perhaps they would charge more for other things in the game); this also does not stop how people will react feeling cheated because they already spent their dust at a worse value (similarly why they already give full dust disenchantment refunds when cards get nerfed). Maybe they could scale the card rarities to be less rare making it easier to attain the cards, thus making dust cheaper, but this creates quite a disparity between dust and gold and does not remedy the problem; however lessens the need for crafting.
One minor thing I would love to see regarding dust is a gold to dust converter and vice versa. You would be able to spend X gold to gain X dust (similar, but a more consistent value to disenchanting packs). An additional, perhaps a better, suggestion would be to add more dust rewards, instead of just gold rewards when playing the game.
Ideally, I would like them to tweak the dust economy to make it better for players. At the very least, I'd them to be plain and just say that they have no intention of changing it without adding all the other bs like the free deck and free core set to make it seem like they've done stuff for us when they really haven't. The only really great thing they've gotten right was duplicate protection, though honestly I think that should have been in place from launch. The new rewards track is also pretty good now that they fixed it after the initial backlash.
ideally, you want cards for practically nothing is what you really mean. I'm sorry to inform you that will not happen to the crafting system. As far as dust is concerned I got a free golden high abbess today because I had two regular copies. Seeing as how I have every card in the game because I have played since closed beta Im sitting on 100K+ dust and a 70% complete golden collection. The new RT system will have me at roughly 160 free packs when the Barren releases plus the 145 from both preorders plus the extra 120 packs from the three bundles I buy. 425 packs opening on release day will give me boatloads of entertainment value and the best meta decks in solid gold.
As much as evryone would like things for free I'm sorry but that has to end at some point. Blizzard could give evrything away and people would still complain.
The new system benefits people who spend money to support the game the most, as it should, but it also has greatly benefitted people who dont spend a dime.
The continued begging for more free stuff is pretty degrading to those who do it and very insulting to those who have to listen to it.
When will anything be enough for some of these people is a question that has only once answer....NEVER.
So you're salty they offered an incentive for returning and new players and you got nothing for being loyal? Welcome to the real world. My broadband provider offers new and returning customers much better deals than I've got. My TV provider does the same, and my gas, and my electricity provider. If you don't like it go and play Runeterra or Gwent until blizz offer deals to try and get your custom back, because you are a customer to them and they don't care about your dust.
but also I wanna add something. with this new core set rotating thing, we are losing Hall of Famed cards and the dust boost that we get every year.
I think that HoF dust thing contributes most of my dust value, like every year I would get 5000-8000 dust. now that system is gone, about 60% of the dust income is gone as well.
I also want to point out that now they are planning to add mini-set to every expansion this year, which would mean players need more resources to keep up with 170 cards per expansion instead of 135.
I am kinda hopeful that they said there will be more rewards about the next expansion reward track, but I doubt that that would be enough to keep up with 170x3 cards this year.
to conclude, I am skeptical about when they say they will make this game more affordable. I think they are making the game more expensive but they are tying to do that discreetly.
ideally, you want cards for practically nothing is what you really mean. I'm sorry to inform you that will not happen to the crafting system. As far as dust is concerned I got a free golden high abbess today because I had two regular copies. Seeing as how I have every card in the game because I have played since closed beta Im sitting on 100K+ dust and a 70% complete golden collection. The new RT system will have me at roughly 160 free packs when the Barren releases plus the 145 from both preorders plus the extra 120 packs from the three bundles I buy. 425 packs opening on release day will give me boatloads of entertainment value and the best meta decks in solid gold.
As much as evryone would like things for free I'm sorry but that has to end at some point. Blizzard could give evrything away and people would still complain.
The new system benefits people who spend money to support the game the most, as it should, but it also has greatly benefitted people who dont spend a dime.
The continued begging for more free stuff is pretty degrading to those who do it and very insulting to those who have to listen to it.
When will anything be enough for some of these people is a question that has only once answer....NEVER.
Good Luck with your time!
Perhaps a whale like you is happy spending hundreds of dollars each year on Hearthstone, but most people are not. It does not invalidate their opinion or allow people like you to talk down to them. A triple A game with years of development and 60+ hours of content is worth $60 , now probably $80 with next gen consoles. Meanwhile, in Hearthstone, you spend $80 dollars and you can't even get a full expansion, of which three are released each year, now with mini-sets. And I think it's fairly evident that Blizzard does not put as much effort into an expansion as a game studio puts into a triple A title. Also, I clearly stated that I was fine with them refusing to budge on the dust system as long as they were plain about it and didn't try to sugar-coat it. I don't see how that's asking for handouts. I understand that Blizzard has a bottom line, and can't be expected to hand out everything for free. I just think that they can just do a bit better than they currently are.
I just want an easier way to make golden cards. Would be nice if we could combine 3 duplicate cards to make a golden one or something like that.
if they do this a golden common would be essentially 15 dust. they would never do that. What they will end up implementing is a way to make cards golden based on some timesink or objective to complete that will require you to have certain cards or rank, to begin with, that will cost less than the actual dust needed to make a golden copy. The fact that they nerf cards very quickly now means you shouldn't be dusting anything until the nerfs are introduced. I just got 3200 dust for high abbess because I had two regular copies. I crafted a free golden one. This card is still ridiculous at 5 mana. I usually wait for 2-3 expansions before I dust all my extra copies of any card.
I just want an easier way to make golden cards. Would be nice if we could combine 3 duplicate cards to make a golden one or something like that.
if they do this a golden common would be essentially 15 dust. they would never do that. What they will end up implementing is a way to make cards golden based on some timesink or objective to complete that will require you to have certain cards or rank, to begin with, that will cost less than the actual dust needed to make a golden copy. The fact that they nerf cards very quickly now means you shouldn't be dusting anything until the nerfs are introduced. I just got 3200 dust for high abbess because I had two regular copies. I crafted a free golden one. This card is still ridiculous at 5 mana. I usually wait for 2-3 expansions before I dust all my extra copies of any card.
It could be different numbers for each rarity. I didn’t say it needed to be exactly that. It could be like 6 commons, 5 rares, 4 epics and 3 legendaries or something. That’s still a lot of dust and would make golden cards less insane to get craft.
I would not call the core set "compensation" for the basic set. Most cards from the basic set don't see any amount of play. Also Blizzard needs to make money as a company so I am sure there has to be some specifics for the economy of the dust system that makes it hard to accomplish any changes. What they are doing is a good start and yes the game could be more cheaper, but at least it is something
Ideally, I would like them to tweak the dust economy to make it better for players. At the very least, I'd them to be plain and just say that they have no intention of changing it without adding all the other bs like the free deck and free core set to make it seem like they've done stuff for us when they really haven't. The only really great thing they've gotten right was duplicate protection, though honestly I think that should have been in place from launch. The new rewards track is also pretty good now that they fixed it after the initial backlash.
ideally, you want cards for practically nothing is what you really mean. I'm sorry to inform you that will not happen to the crafting system. As far as dust is concerned I got a free golden high abbess today because I had two regular copies. Seeing as how I have every card in the game because I have played since closed beta Im sitting on 100K+ dust and a 70% complete golden collection. The new RT system will have me at roughly 160 free packs when the Barren releases plus the 145 from both preorders plus the extra 120 packs from the three bundles I buy. 425 packs opening on release day will give me boatloads of entertainment value and the best meta decks in solid gold.
As much as evryone would like things for free I'm sorry but that has to end at some point. Blizzard could give evrything away and people would still complain.
The new system benefits people who spend money to support the game the most, as it should, but it also has greatly benefitted people who dont spend a dime.
The continued begging for more free stuff is pretty degrading to those who do it and very insulting to those who have to listen to it.
When will anything be enough for some of these people is a question that has only once answer....NEVER.
Good Luck with your time!
Aww, aren't you a proud consoomer. I am sure Blizz will milk you again soon for being such a good boy.
Or you can get off your high horse and act like an adult, either or. We are not complaining because we are poor peasants who can't put money into the game. I have while I still believed in it and would again if the game improved. Helping people keep up with the expansions without spending outrageous amounts of money would be a good step. So was duplicate protection if it works how I think it works (recently came back to the game so not sure). What would really secure me as a paying customer again would be dismantling Standard format. By that I mean ending power creep and making fun and fresh cards which are nonetheless balanced to fit with the totality of HS cards, or close to it. That was the straight and narrow but correct move. Predictably Blizz went for the easy and greedy option of Standard and giving your cards an effective 2y lifecycle. I know my last request is unlikely to happen but might as well speak my mind, if I don't no chance of it becoming a thing.
What we need is at least a doubling of dust value. The way I would do it is to simplify the whole system, which helps new players learn too. Each rarity level should require to disenchant two cards of the same rarity to craft the card of that rarity level you want. So two legends to make a legend, two rares to make a rare, etc. Golden cards always cost double of what a normal card does and also DE for half the cost to make them (this is mostly true already). This should roughly double the value of our dust. You can further play with the odds of gaining the higher rarities from packs to adjust this perfectly.
The final goal should be to have players who spent almost the whole season playing, doing all of their quests and putting in 1-3hrs a day gain virtually all commons and rares. As well as about half of the epics and legends, including a healthy majority of the "good" ones (since those are the ones you will be spending dust crafting). People who pay 20-40$ worth of money per expansion should have the vast majority of all cards period. And whales like you should be able to afford all goldens pretty much by spending 100ish dollars each expansion.
That is fair and reasonable, 20-40$ every few months is pricey but comparable to DLC and many people will be happy to pay it to have access to pretty much all the cards to make whatever deck they want. Whales aren't skinned alive for their shineys though they still pay well. And most importantly F2Ps will be able to craft most (though not all, so incentive exists to pay) meta decks they want and enjoy the game. Stuck up as you are because you help pay the way it is still F2Ps who make the soul of the game. Without them the queues would be terrible, matchups stale and cookie-cutter at all rank levels and our community much poorer. And God damn if we can let as many people enjoy as possible shouldn't we? It is also good for everyone. Better progression means more F2Ps come and more stay, which means more engagement and enjoyment for paying customers. Happy people spend more money. As I said many of us feel betrayed and used as cash cows and we just won't do it, improve the situation improve the cash flow. Blizzard pretty much only cares about money so they are happy too. The only people who would be unhappy are those who want to see poorer players suffer and scrape for leftovers just because they enjoy seeing it which despite being clearly disgusted by your attitude I hope you are not.
But hey that is just how I would help fix up the game, hope others agree too though ;)
I'm very disappointed that they didn't go shit about golden upgrades. As an addict I don't care about anything else, I'll keep playing whatever they do, so this is the only thing I'm waiting for.
During today's Q&A, some of the developers were asked if there were any plans to change how the dust economy works. Game Director Ben Lee's answer to this question has pissed me off and I need to rant about it. If you're tired of negativity don't read, I just really need to get this off my chest.
The first part of Lee's response was to mention the meta-viable deck that were given to returning players. In fact, it seems all he focused on was new or returning players, and didn't give a thought to long-time players. For example, I don't know much about those decks that were given out, as I (like many players) didn't get one. However, I can't imagine they're actually that great since the Hearthstone team is constantly making balance changes (which is a healthy thing for the game but still poses problems) that shake up the meta. How long will those meta-relevant decks be relevant at all? If you got evolve shaman a few weeks ago I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed now.
The second thing Lee mentioned was the generosity of the core set that would be given to all players. But this is misleading because the core set is not a gift, it is compensation. It's compensation for the removal of the basic and classic sets as we knew them. Sets that we were promised would permanent. I'm not saying that rotating them isn't the right move, on the contrary, I think it's a great idea that will be healthy for the game, but I refuse to let them act like proper compensation is a gift of generosity.
For the sake of my mental sanity, I'll ignore most of this topic an just talk about the two points you bring up here.
Generally, I sort of agree with you that the dust economy could be a little better, primarily because crafting legendaries just feels like a huge commitment compared to how much dust you generate through packs. My suggestion would be to increase the disenchant value of commons from 5 to 10.
As for your points:
The developers point here really is that new/returning players get a deck that follows a theme and includes high rarity cards that are otherwise hard to come by, even if some of them eventually turn out to be not that good. It's arguable, how helpful that is in the long run or the bigger picture for players, but it is definitely of some help to new and returning players, who normally just had nothing but basic cards to work with, or an outdated collection they had to disenchant first. Even if the free decks aren't very good, and won't fix players' dust problems entire, they should help somewhat.
Your other point about the Core set is misleading itself. The Core set compensates for Classic and Basic, yes. And yes, they also originally promised that Classic and Basic would be around forever. But in return a lot of the good cards in Classic and Basic were nerfed, many to the point of being unplayable. Instead of having a guaranteed set in Standard that was made worse year after year, we get a Core set that is (allegedly) of higher quality and more suitable for modern Hearthstone with way less outdated and outright terrible cards. And, most importantly, people can get all of it. Classic was a huge set that took forever to get all the good cards from, and forced players to patiently collect packs through Tavern Brawl, just so they don't need to waste their resources on Classic while trying to stay up to date on the latest expansions. And there was a good chance some players were missing specific cards from certain classes, preventing them from playing those classes altogether.
I agree that the Core set is not a gift, because it is factually borrowed, but in terms of resources, it is a huge help.
I also want to point out that now they are planning to add mini-set to every expansion this year, which would mean players need more resources to keep up with 170 cards per expansion instead of 135.
I am kinda hopeful that they said there will be more rewards about the next expansion reward track, but I doubt that that would be enough to keep up with 170x3 cards this year.
to conclude, I am skeptical about when they say they will make this game more affordable. I think they are making the game more expensive but they are tying to do that discreetly.
Short answer: The game is a whole lot more affordable than you might think, even with the mini-set. Epics and legendaries are still a bit hard to come by (which is why I suggested more dust for commons), but baseline completion goals are easier to achieve than ever.
I am pretty sure that commons only give 5 dust because you get too many, so they have to be worth less than 4 for 1 like epics and legendaries, although I would absolutely love to see 10 dust per common. Can't imagine the joy of getting 60 dust per pack instead of 40. However, this is common practice in freemium card games.
My suggestion would be to change rares to 25 dust per card and reduce the cost for epics and legendaries to 300/1200 or at the very least 300/1400. That would definitely not break the economy in any way but still help tremendously.
Heathstone is too expensive in general compared to other "normal" games, but if you look at the entire freemium sector, the game is actually pretty affordable. You wouldn't believe the things I have seen in a racing game I used to play in 2020. People were spending 10k+ $ and hundreds of hours of grinding just to get 5 fully upgraded cars unlocked of which they won't even use 3-4. I will admit, though, that there are several cheaper card games out there.
The game is affordable even without spending money.
With the 90-100 packs you get from the rewards track is more than enough to get ALL the COMMONS and ALL the rares. You will need to craft the epics u need and a few legendaries. You could play cheap meta decks. If you just go for the op deck of the month, you will get punish in standard.
If you invest in both bundles (140) and one monthly bundle (25$) you will be spending 40$ a month for each expansion, and this will give you all the cards of the expansion easily. This allows you to play any deck you want and is why people PAY for a game, and why the game makes money and continues to exist. They are NOT changing that.
If you do not want to invest in the flavor of the month deck, you can build slowly golden decks in wild. I am at 11 golden decks and growing in wild, using nerfed dust and dust accumulated from before. And once classic goes in I will have in total 27 golden decks that will be playable forever ( even if the wild ones will need some upgrades over time) and I ONLY buy bundles and not even all of them.4
Just be smart with your dust and you can enjoy the game. If they changed the dust system for regulars it will be a slap in the face to all the veterans and loyals customers, while hurting their sales a LOT because there will be 0 reason to spend in the game. It is not hapening. Only think i see hapening is that if you have a regular card and want to make it on golden you can use the dust value of the original card. For example i have an epic and want a golden one. instead of disenchanting 100 and crafting for 1600, i will just being crafting for another 1200 dust, i will love to this to happen even if I used A LOT of dust on golden
What I'd like is at least a little dust in each pack, and each progression landmark. I'd have said quest, but that's not really how quests work anymore. Doesn't have to be a lot. Randomly 5-20 dust per pack, and when progression gives you gold, something like a fixed 10-20% of that in Dust value (250g + 25-50 dust). That's not a tonne, but it'd help alleviate the feeling of having to disenchant cards to make other cards.
Getting more dust from DE'ing cards, or having cards cheaper to craft (1200 dust Legendaries, for example), wouldn't be something I'd be mad about, but it still leaves in the FeelsBadMan of having to delete cards to make more. I'd rather see something different. A slight sprinkling of dust through normal gameplay would just feel better.
Ideally, I would like them to tweak the dust economy to make it better for players. At the very least, I'd them to be plain and just say that they have no intention of changing it without adding all the other bs like the free deck and free core set to make it seem like they've done stuff for us when they really haven't. The only really great thing they've gotten right was duplicate protection, though honestly I think that should have been in place from launch. The new rewards track is also pretty good now that they fixed it after the initial backlash.
ideally, you want cards for practically nothing is what you really mean. I'm sorry to inform you that will not happen to the crafting system. As far as dust is concerned I got a free golden high abbess today because I had two regular copies. Seeing as how I have every card in the game because I have played since closed beta Im sitting on 100K+ dust and a 70% complete golden collection. The new RT system will have me at roughly 160 free packs when the Barren releases plus the 145 from both preorders plus the extra 120 packs from the three bundles I buy. 425 packs opening on release day will give me boatloads of entertainment value and the best meta decks in solid gold.
As much as evryone would like things for free I'm sorry but that has to end at some point. Blizzard could give evrything away and people would still complain.
The new system benefits people who spend money to support the game the most, as it should, but it also has greatly benefitted people who dont spend a dime.
The continued begging for more free stuff is pretty degrading to those who do it and very insulting to those who have to listen to it.
When will anything be enough for some of these people is a question that has only once answer....NEVER.
Good Luck with your time!
The lack of self awareness is real. How can someone type this without realizing lol
The game is affordable even without spending money.
With the 90-100 packs you get from the rewards track is more than enough to get ALL the COMMONS and ALL the rares. You will need to craft the epics u need and a few legendaries. You could play cheap meta decks. If you just go for the op deck of the month, you will get punish in standard.
If you invest in both bundles (140) and one monthly bundle (25$) you will be spending 40$ a month for each expansion, and this will give you all the cards of the expansion easily. This allows you to play any deck you want and is why people PAY for a game, and why the game makes money and continues to exist. They are NOT changing that.
If you do not want to invest in the flavor of the month deck, you can build slowly golden decks in wild. I am at 11 golden decks and growing in wild, using nerfed dust and dust accumulated from before. And once classic goes in I will have in total 27 golden decks that will be playable forever ( even if the wild ones will need some upgrades over time) and I ONLY buy bundles and not even all of them.4
Just be smart with your dust and you can enjoy the game. If they changed the dust system for regulars it will be a slap in the face to all the veterans and loyals customers, while hurting their sales a LOT because there will be 0 reason to spend in the game. It is not hapening. Only think i see hapening is that if you have a regular card and want to make it on golden you can use the dust value of the original card. For example i have an epic and want a golden one. instead of disenchanting 100 and crafting for 1600, i will just being crafting for another 1200 dust, i will love to this to happen even if I used A LOT of dust on golden
Do you really think that most people would be mad about cheaper crafting options? I highly doubt that. Yeah, you invested in the game in the past, but such a change also means that you as a paying customer can get cards faster/cheaper. Sure, this might hurt them financially in the short run, but also long-term? If Hearthstone becomes more affordable, maybe more people who spend a little would come (back) to the game? Anyway, I am thankful for any positive change to the dust economy, regardless of whether they give 10 dust per common, reduce legs to 1400 cost, or sprinkle in some dust from time to time.
Just one quick question for you: Do you think that spending 500 $ per year is justified for this product? Do you get enough fun/competition/whatever you are looking for from this game to justify this price? I am seriously asking (also others, ofc). With the last 3 months of gameplay, I would probably answer this question with "Yes" myself, but I like the challenge of staying f2p in freemium games. It can get boring to have everything and I prefer Arena/Duels anyway. Speaking of these modes...
A slight sprinkling of dust through normal gameplay would just feel better.
This is literally what happens in these modes. And I gotta say that I absolutely hate 25 dust rewards instead of 25 gold (and I am sure I am not alone). Then again, you probably meant on top of the gold acquisition. I am down for 10 extra dust per pack you open, let's do that! Reminds me of another certain card game I used to play where you got free dust for 1 uncommon with every pack. If they did that in HS, the game would make no more money.
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During today's Q&A, some of the developers were asked if there were any plans to change how the dust economy works. Game Director Ben Lee's answer to this question has pissed me off and I need to rant about it. If you're tired of negativity don't read, I just really need to get this off my chest.
The first part of Lee's response was to mention the meta-viable deck that were given to returning players. In fact, it seems all he focused on was new or returning players, and didn't give a thought to long-time players. For example, I don't know much about those decks that were given out, as I (like many players) didn't get one. However, I can't imagine they're actually that great since the Hearthstone team is constantly making balance changes (which is a healthy thing for the game but still poses problems) that shake up the meta. How long will those meta-relevant decks be relevant at all? If you got evolve shaman a few weeks ago I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed now.
The second thing Lee mentioned was the generosity of the core set that would be given to all players. But this is misleading because the core set is not a gift, it is compensation. It's compensation for the removal of the basic and classic sets as we knew them. Sets that we were promised would permanent. I'm not saying that rotating them isn't the right move, on the contrary, I think it's a great idea that will be healthy for the game, but I refuse to let them act like proper compensation is a gift of generosity.
Lee concluded with saying that the dust economy (which hasn't changed since the game launched, would not be changed. What bull.
What do you want changed?
Ideally, I would like them to tweak the dust economy to make it better for players. At the very least, I'd them to be plain and just say that they have no intention of changing it without adding all the other bs like the free deck and free core set to make it seem like they've done stuff for us when they really haven't. The only really great thing they've gotten right was duplicate protection, though honestly I think that should have been in place from launch. The new rewards track is also pretty good now that they fixed it after the initial backlash.
The dust economy is precisely intertwined and equivalent with the gold economy. The cost of enchanting and disenchanting is a very specific cost that reflects on the rarity of the cards. Other games usually work at a monetary loss with their crafting systems making up the costs elsewhere, while Hearthstone does not and is one of the most expensive online card games to create and maintain.
How exactly would you propose to fix the dust economy? It is much easier to say 'fix it' than to actually fix it --- it's not entirely a simple problem; there already is a balance and changing one thing causes more problems elsewhere to then fix. I suppose they could just double the value of dust, but then that's a huge loss of revenue (perhaps they would charge more for other things in the game); this also does not stop how people will react feeling cheated because they already spent their dust at a worse value (similarly why they already give full dust disenchantment refunds when cards get nerfed). Maybe they could scale the card rarities to be less rare making it easier to attain the cards, thus making dust cheaper, but this creates quite a disparity between dust and gold and does not remedy the problem; however lessens the need for crafting.
One minor thing I would love to see regarding dust is a gold to dust converter and vice versa. You would be able to spend X gold to gain X dust (similar, but a more consistent value to disenchanting packs). An additional, perhaps a better, suggestion would be to add more dust rewards, instead of just gold rewards when playing the game.
Yogg take the wheel!
ideally, you want cards for practically nothing is what you really mean. I'm sorry to inform you that will not happen to the crafting system. As far as dust is concerned I got a free golden high abbess today because I had two regular copies. Seeing as how I have every card in the game because I have played since closed beta Im sitting on 100K+ dust and a 70% complete golden collection. The new RT system will have me at roughly 160 free packs when the Barren releases plus the 145 from both preorders plus the extra 120 packs from the three bundles I buy. 425 packs opening on release day will give me boatloads of entertainment value and the best meta decks in solid gold.
As much as evryone would like things for free I'm sorry but that has to end at some point. Blizzard could give evrything away and people would still complain.
The new system benefits people who spend money to support the game the most, as it should, but it also has greatly benefitted people who dont spend a dime.
The continued begging for more free stuff is pretty degrading to those who do it and very insulting to those who have to listen to it.
When will anything be enough for some of these people is a question that has only once answer....NEVER.
Good Luck with your time!
So you're salty they offered an incentive for returning and new players and you got nothing for being loyal? Welcome to the real world. My broadband provider offers new and returning customers much better deals than I've got. My TV provider does the same, and my gas, and my electricity provider. If you don't like it go and play Runeterra or Gwent until blizz offer deals to try and get your custom back, because you are a customer to them and they don't care about your dust.
I get your point and kinda agree OP.
but also I wanna add something. with this new core set rotating thing, we are losing Hall of Famed cards and the dust boost that we get every year.
I think that HoF dust thing contributes most of my dust value, like every year I would get 5000-8000 dust. now that system is gone, about 60% of the dust income is gone as well.
I also want to point out that now they are planning to add mini-set to every expansion this year, which would mean players need more resources to keep up with 170 cards per expansion instead of 135.
I am kinda hopeful that they said there will be more rewards about the next expansion reward track, but I doubt that that would be enough to keep up with 170x3 cards this year.
to conclude, I am skeptical about when they say they will make this game more affordable. I think they are making the game more expensive but they are tying to do that discreetly.
I just want an easier way to make golden cards. Would be nice if we could combine 3 duplicate cards to make a golden one or something like that.
Perhaps a whale like you is happy spending hundreds of dollars each year on Hearthstone, but most people are not. It does not invalidate their opinion or allow people like you to talk down to them. A triple A game with years of development and 60+ hours of content is worth $60 , now probably $80 with next gen consoles. Meanwhile, in Hearthstone, you spend $80 dollars and you can't even get a full expansion, of which three are released each year, now with mini-sets. And I think it's fairly evident that Blizzard does not put as much effort into an expansion as a game studio puts into a triple A title. Also, I clearly stated that I was fine with them refusing to budge on the dust system as long as they were plain about it and didn't try to sugar-coat it. I don't see how that's asking for handouts. I understand that Blizzard has a bottom line, and can't be expected to hand out everything for free. I just think that they can just do a bit better than they currently are.
if they do this a golden common would be essentially 15 dust. they would never do that. What they will end up implementing is a way to make cards golden based on some timesink or objective to complete that will require you to have certain cards or rank, to begin with, that will cost less than the actual dust needed to make a golden copy. The fact that they nerf cards very quickly now means you shouldn't be dusting anything until the nerfs are introduced. I just got 3200 dust for high abbess because I had two regular copies. I crafted a free golden one. This card is still ridiculous at 5 mana. I usually wait for 2-3 expansions before I dust all my extra copies of any card.
It could be different numbers for each rarity. I didn’t say it needed to be exactly that. It could be like 6 commons, 5 rares, 4 epics and 3 legendaries or something. That’s still a lot of dust and would make golden cards less insane to get craft.
I would not call the core set "compensation" for the basic set. Most cards from the basic set don't see any amount of play. Also Blizzard needs to make money as a company so I am sure there has to be some specifics for the economy of the dust system that makes it hard to accomplish any changes. What they are doing is a good start and yes the game could be more cheaper, but at least it is something
Aww, aren't you a proud consoomer. I am sure Blizz will milk you again soon for being such a good boy.
Or you can get off your high horse and act like an adult, either or. We are not complaining because we are poor peasants who can't put money into the game. I have while I still believed in it and would again if the game improved. Helping people keep up with the expansions without spending outrageous amounts of money would be a good step. So was duplicate protection if it works how I think it works (recently came back to the game so not sure). What would really secure me as a paying customer again would be dismantling Standard format. By that I mean ending power creep and making fun and fresh cards which are nonetheless balanced to fit with the totality of HS cards, or close to it. That was the straight and narrow but correct move. Predictably Blizz went for the easy and greedy option of Standard and giving your cards an effective 2y lifecycle. I know my last request is unlikely to happen but might as well speak my mind, if I don't no chance of it becoming a thing.
What we need is at least a doubling of dust value. The way I would do it is to simplify the whole system, which helps new players learn too. Each rarity level should require to disenchant two cards of the same rarity to craft the card of that rarity level you want. So two legends to make a legend, two rares to make a rare, etc. Golden cards always cost double of what a normal card does and also DE for half the cost to make them (this is mostly true already). This should roughly double the value of our dust. You can further play with the odds of gaining the higher rarities from packs to adjust this perfectly.
The final goal should be to have players who spent almost the whole season playing, doing all of their quests and putting in 1-3hrs a day gain virtually all commons and rares. As well as about half of the epics and legends, including a healthy majority of the "good" ones (since those are the ones you will be spending dust crafting). People who pay 20-40$ worth of money per expansion should have the vast majority of all cards period. And whales like you should be able to afford all goldens pretty much by spending 100ish dollars each expansion.
That is fair and reasonable, 20-40$ every few months is pricey but comparable to DLC and many people will be happy to pay it to have access to pretty much all the cards to make whatever deck they want. Whales aren't skinned alive for their shineys though they still pay well. And most importantly F2Ps will be able to craft most (though not all, so incentive exists to pay) meta decks they want and enjoy the game. Stuck up as you are because you help pay the way it is still F2Ps who make the soul of the game. Without them the queues would be terrible, matchups stale and cookie-cutter at all rank levels and our community much poorer. And God damn if we can let as many people enjoy as possible shouldn't we? It is also good for everyone. Better progression means more F2Ps come and more stay, which means more engagement and enjoyment for paying customers. Happy people spend more money. As I said many of us feel betrayed and used as cash cows and we just won't do it, improve the situation improve the cash flow. Blizzard pretty much only cares about money so they are happy too. The only people who would be unhappy are those who want to see poorer players suffer and scrape for leftovers just because they enjoy seeing it which despite being clearly disgusted by your attitude I hope you are not.
But hey that is just how I would help fix up the game, hope others agree too though ;)
I'm very disappointed that they didn't go shit about golden upgrades. As an addict I don't care about anything else, I'll keep playing whatever they do, so this is the only thing I'm waiting for.
Take a walk on the wild side...
For the sake of my mental sanity, I'll ignore most of this topic an just talk about the two points you bring up here.
Generally, I sort of agree with you that the dust economy could be a little better, primarily because crafting legendaries just feels like a huge commitment compared to how much dust you generate through packs. My suggestion would be to increase the disenchant value of commons from 5 to 10.
As for your points:
The developers point here really is that new/returning players get a deck that follows a theme and includes high rarity cards that are otherwise hard to come by, even if some of them eventually turn out to be not that good. It's arguable, how helpful that is in the long run or the bigger picture for players, but it is definitely of some help to new and returning players, who normally just had nothing but basic cards to work with, or an outdated collection they had to disenchant first. Even if the free decks aren't very good, and won't fix players' dust problems entire, they should help somewhat.
Your other point about the Core set is misleading itself. The Core set compensates for Classic and Basic, yes. And yes, they also originally promised that Classic and Basic would be around forever. But in return a lot of the good cards in Classic and Basic were nerfed, many to the point of being unplayable. Instead of having a guaranteed set in Standard that was made worse year after year, we get a Core set that is (allegedly) of higher quality and more suitable for modern Hearthstone with way less outdated and outright terrible cards. And, most importantly, people can get all of it. Classic was a huge set that took forever to get all the good cards from, and forced players to patiently collect packs through Tavern Brawl, just so they don't need to waste their resources on Classic while trying to stay up to date on the latest expansions. And there was a good chance some players were missing specific cards from certain classes, preventing them from playing those classes altogether.
I agree that the Core set is not a gift, because it is factually borrowed, but in terms of resources, it is a huge help.
Knowing it would come in handy someday, I wrote a longer piece regarding this very issue here: https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/247418-darkmoon-coin-for-2000-gold#c1
Short answer: The game is a whole lot more affordable than you might think, even with the mini-set. Epics and legendaries are still a bit hard to come by (which is why I suggested more dust for commons), but baseline completion goals are easier to achieve than ever.
I am pretty sure that commons only give 5 dust because you get too many, so they have to be worth less than 4 for 1 like epics and legendaries, although I would absolutely love to see 10 dust per common. Can't imagine the joy of getting 60 dust per pack instead of 40. However, this is common practice in freemium card games.
My suggestion would be to change rares to 25 dust per card and reduce the cost for epics and legendaries to 300/1200 or at the very least 300/1400. That would definitely not break the economy in any way but still help tremendously.
Heathstone is too expensive in general compared to other "normal" games, but if you look at the entire freemium sector, the game is actually pretty affordable. You wouldn't believe the things I have seen in a racing game I used to play in 2020. People were spending 10k+ $ and hundreds of hours of grinding just to get 5 fully upgraded cars unlocked of which they won't even use 3-4. I will admit, though, that there are several cheaper card games out there.
The game is affordable even without spending money.
With the 90-100 packs you get from the rewards track is more than enough to get ALL the COMMONS and ALL the rares. You will need to craft the epics u need and a few legendaries. You could play cheap meta decks. If you just go for the op deck of the month, you will get punish in standard.
If you invest in both bundles (140) and one monthly bundle (25$) you will be spending 40$ a month for each expansion, and this will give you all the cards of the expansion easily. This allows you to play any deck you want and is why people PAY for a game, and why the game makes money and continues to exist. They are NOT changing that.
If you do not want to invest in the flavor of the month deck, you can build slowly golden decks in wild. I am at 11 golden decks and growing in wild, using nerfed dust and dust accumulated from before. And once classic goes in I will have in total 27 golden decks that will be playable forever ( even if the wild ones will need some upgrades over time) and I ONLY buy bundles and not even all of them.4
Just be smart with your dust and you can enjoy the game. If they changed the dust system for regulars it will be a slap in the face to all the veterans and loyals customers, while hurting their sales a LOT because there will be 0 reason to spend in the game. It is not hapening. Only think i see hapening is that if you have a regular card and want to make it on golden you can use the dust value of the original card. For example i have an epic and want a golden one. instead of disenchanting 100 and crafting for 1600, i will just being crafting for another 1200 dust, i will love to this to happen even if I used A LOT of dust on golden
What I'd like is at least a little dust in each pack, and each progression landmark. I'd have said quest, but that's not really how quests work anymore. Doesn't have to be a lot. Randomly 5-20 dust per pack, and when progression gives you gold, something like a fixed 10-20% of that in Dust value (250g + 25-50 dust). That's not a tonne, but it'd help alleviate the feeling of having to disenchant cards to make other cards.
Getting more dust from DE'ing cards, or having cards cheaper to craft (1200 dust Legendaries, for example), wouldn't be something I'd be mad about, but it still leaves in the FeelsBadMan of having to delete cards to make more. I'd rather see something different. A slight sprinkling of dust through normal gameplay would just feel better.
The lack of self awareness is real. How can someone type this without realizing lol
Do you really think that most people would be mad about cheaper crafting options? I highly doubt that. Yeah, you invested in the game in the past, but such a change also means that you as a paying customer can get cards faster/cheaper. Sure, this might hurt them financially in the short run, but also long-term? If Hearthstone becomes more affordable, maybe more people who spend a little would come (back) to the game? Anyway, I am thankful for any positive change to the dust economy, regardless of whether they give 10 dust per common, reduce legs to 1400 cost, or sprinkle in some dust from time to time.
Just one quick question for you: Do you think that spending 500 $ per year is justified for this product? Do you get enough fun/competition/whatever you are looking for from this game to justify this price? I am seriously asking (also others, ofc). With the last 3 months of gameplay, I would probably answer this question with "Yes" myself, but I like the challenge of staying f2p in freemium games. It can get boring to have everything and I prefer Arena/Duels anyway. Speaking of these modes...
This is literally what happens in these modes. And I gotta say that I absolutely hate 25 dust rewards instead of 25 gold (and I am sure I am not alone). Then again, you probably meant on top of the gold acquisition. I am down for 10 extra dust per pack you open, let's do that! Reminds me of another certain card game I used to play where you got free dust for 1 uncommon with every pack. If they did that in HS, the game would make no more money.