I don't know why, but I got it in my head that blizzard was planning to tone down the way standard is these days. Toning down the infinite card generation, ridiculous insane combos that end the game on turn 4 *cough* cheese paladin *cough* and other such game mechanics that turn the game into "I got my crazy insane board full of humongous minions before you got your crazy insane unstoppable combo so therefore I win" stuff.
But the first card they showed us was Vol'Jin. A guy who can swap a 0 mana minion for a 10 mana minion in your hand, and probably activate some crazy insane ridiculous BS on turn 5 that is totally not fun to play against.
I don't know why I thought they wanted to move away from that stuff. Was I just wrong to think that at all? I got the idea from some Q&A I saw somewhere recently though I don't remember where. Maybe I just misinterpreted it.
Ehh, Madam Goya didn't see play and Dr.Morrigan even got buffed and didn't see play, i don't know how vol'jin would be any better than those two, specially since the 0 mana card wouldn't have any uses other than the combo...which is not ideal in combo decks.
Specifically, good combos need to be able to just play their pieces as average to decent standalone cards in matchups where it isn't possible to assemble the combo.
He says "owner's." Does that mean you can target a mind controlled minion and get it back? Would the new minion go from your hand to your opponents field? If not, could you use it with shadow madness to steal a minion? So many questions!
Ehh, Madam Goya didn't see play and Dr.Morrigan even got buffed and didn't see play, i don't know how vol'jin would be any better than those two, specially since the 0 mana card wouldn't have any uses other than the combo...which is not ideal in combo decks.
Specifically, good combos need to be able to just play their pieces as average to decent standalone cards in matchups where it isn't possible to assemble the combo.
You don't know how predictable hand manipulation would be 10x better than unpredictable deck manipulation ? Have you ever played hearthstone ? And Madam goya is friendly minions only, she can't sap+dirty rat enemies like Voljin. Dr morrigan is just a completely different card and warlock only.
Ehh, Madam Goya didn't see play and Dr.Morrigan even got buffed and didn't see play, i don't know how vol'jin would be any better than those two, specially since the 0 mana card wouldn't have any uses other than the combo...which is not ideal in combo decks.
Specifically, good combos need to be able to just play their pieces as average to decent standalone cards in matchups where it isn't possible to assemble the combo.
Both of those cards were terrible cause you could get any random minion but Vol'jin is A LOT better cause you can obviously manipulate your hand. A card like this can lead to some serious Barnes levels of bullshit. I'm not saying it'll be great, only time can tell, but for sure it has the potential to be broken.
Imo Voljin will be most used as a minion removal (like sap) or a hand disruptor (like dirty rat) against enemy minions, not as a build around combo activator for friendly minions, but he sure has potential in both areas.
Imo Voljin will be most used as a minion removal (like sap) or a hand disruptor (like dirty rat) against enemy minions, not as a build around combo activator for friendly minions, but he sure has potential in both areas.
I mean, you are probably right, but I feel like it could be unreliable as a dirty rat. For one, it's mana cost means your opponent doesn't have to worry about it for awhile, and makes it harder for you to deal with whatever you pull from their hand. That and the lack of taunt means you might pull a yshaarj and deny the battlecry, but still get punch in the face. Also it can be played around by denying targets once you have drawn the combo pieces after turn 6. If your opponent doesn't play something for you to swap, then their hand is safe.
Let's think this through, so you need a low cost minion or a Silver Hand Recruit/Totem on board and a higher cost minion without Battlecry in hand to make it work for yourself. So let's say you overpay Vol'jins Stats by 1 because 4 mana for a 3/6 vanilla is standard.
If you play Pala or Shaman you don't need to put the cheap minion in your deck you just pay 2 mana. You lose a card from your hand and get a bad minion in your hand back which means the 2 mana you spent previously are lost ergo the minion you cheat out should be 4 mana or higher to make it worth. In Paladin you don't want your Battlecry minions to get pulled, so Libram, Murloc and Pure Pala are bad options for this card, in Big Pala you usually can't count on a minion to survive so you need to wait till turn 7 and then a 3/6 is not so big of an upside. Also Commencement pulling this is bad. In Shaman this card is useless for Evolve and Totem Shaman, in Big Shaman Muckmorpher didn't work out and this is slower, but it could help Maly Shaman (as late game combo) which would be ok i guess.
Now the other classes need to put cheap minions in the deck and some kind of big minions to be worth it. In DH there are enough cheap minions, but do you really want to play big cards with outcast working so well? Bladed Lady is easier to cheat and all this effort for Priestess of Fury? I do not think so.
Druid is intriguing with Tokens, but aren't Anubisath or Guardian Animals better cheat mechanics? Hunter, Mage, Rogue, Warrior just no, too slow, not much upside. Big Priest hates small minions, Warlock doesn't want to lose Tickatus, Clowns or Y'shaarj but could certainly be interesting with a different build.
At the moment i can't see a class which wants to use it defensively, so what about offensively? In Aggro vs Aggro it is just useless and slow, In Aggro vs Control, Midrange and Combo you have to ask yourself: Do you want a 5 mana Sap which can f**K you up in lets say 50% of the time. Donate them a early Khartut Defender? Aren't there cheaper removal tools and do you wanna go in for the kill or play a 3/6 lol? I don't think Aggro would use this card (even sap was too slow for this meta).
In Midrange, Combo and Control decks this card could shine in a resource war, but we said that about a lot of disruption effects in the last year and they never took of.
All in all sorry for the long post, but if the meta doesn't change drastically to a more Midrange Control Meta i don't see this card working out, which is sad bc Dirty Rat is one of my favorite cards of all time and therefore I guess your concerns are really not realistic, at least before the rotation
It might not be on curve, but strongman costs 0, just saying. Could be played before and after in the same turn. Also once mass res rotates, priest won't have so much small minion hate. I could see this cheating out a blood of gthun on turn 6 with a psychic conjurer or something.
And I still want to know what happens if you use it with shadow madness!
I'm not necessarily worried about the card itself. Any individual card can be good or bad in w/e meta. What I'm really worried about is the mentality behind card design. The desire to continue printing cards with that crazy ridiculous annoying BS super mega ultra combo/bs insane turns/fill the board with unstoppable stuff....mentality.
Maybe voljin is bad. But if they keep making cards with the potential for insanity, it just makes me not want to play the game. It's not fun IMO. Those decks should be meme decks at best if they exist at all. When they dominate the ladder it's like why even play at all? Cheese paladin still running amok. Losing on turn 4 isn't fun. Just the fact that they are still making stuff that has the ability to be abused is disheartening for me.
I'm not necessarily worried about the card itself. Any individual card can be good or bad in w/e meta. What I'm really worried about is the mentality behind card design. The desire to continue printing cards with that crazy ridiculous annoying BS super mega ultra combo/bs insane turns/fill the board with unstoppable stuff....mentality.
Maybe voljin is bad. But if they keep making cards with the potential for insanity, it just makes me not want to play the game. It's not fun IMO. Those decks should be meme decks at best if they exist at all. When they dominate the ladder it's like why even play at all? Cheese paladin still running amok. Losing on turn 4 isn't fun. Just the fact that they are still making stuff that has the ability to be abused is disheartening for me.
There were times were most players were eager to get disruption cards like this, there were a lot of Metas in the past where you couldn't interact with your opponents cards at all and both players play a game of solitaire, The disruption effect of this card is amazing, And this card is really rewarding if you know the matchup
For the "crazy ridiculous annoying BS super mega ultra combo/bs insane turns/fill the board with unstoppable stuff..." it is just crazy if you build your deck around this card for the offensive side of things. I don't think anything is wrong with strong legendaries played on turn 5 or later, the problem are cards that generate infinite value, like Galakrond etc and cards that can make itself inherently free. This card card is not free itself, it need support. Will there be a "Spiteful" Vol'jin Deck that is Midrange and playable? I hope so it would be fun to see it work
I'm not necessarily worried about the card itself. Any individual card can be good or bad in w/e meta. What I'm really worried about is the mentality behind card design. The desire to continue printing cards with that crazy ridiculous annoying BS super mega ultra combo/bs insane turns/fill the board with unstoppable stuff....mentality.
Maybe voljin is bad. But if they keep making cards with the potential for insanity, it just makes me not want to play the game. It's not fun IMO. Those decks should be meme decks at best if they exist at all. When they dominate the ladder it's like why even play at all? Cheese paladin still running amok. Losing on turn 4 isn't fun. Just the fact that they are still making stuff that has the ability to be abused is disheartening for me.
There were times were most players were eager to get disruption cards like this, there were a lot of Metas in the past where you couldn't interact with your opponents cards at all and both players play a game of solitaire, The disruption effect of this card is amazing, And this card is really rewarding if you know the matchup
For the "crazy ridiculous annoying BS super mega ultra combo/bs insane turns/fill the board with unstoppable stuff..." it is just crazy if you build your deck around this card for the offensive side of things. I don't think anything is wrong with strong legendaries played on turn 5 or later, the problem are cards that generate infinite value, like Galakrond etc and cards that can make itself inherently free. This card card is not free itself, it need support. Will there be a "Spiteful" Vol'jin Deck that is Midrange and playable? I hope so it would be fun to see it work
I'd love to see a midrange deck. I just hope that the card pool eliminates any ability for abuse. I feel like when midrange decks cease to exist, something is wrong with the balance of the game.
After all these years people still don’t get the core mechanism of the game... RNG!!! This is what brings them money, this is what sells and this is how it will be, forever!
look at all the trolden videos on YouTube with the thousands of views. All rng, this is what sells get over it
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I don't know why, but I got it in my head that blizzard was planning to tone down the way standard is these days. Toning down the infinite card generation, ridiculous insane combos that end the game on turn 4 *cough* cheese paladin *cough* and other such game mechanics that turn the game into "I got my crazy insane board full of humongous minions before you got your crazy insane unstoppable combo so therefore I win" stuff.
But the first card they showed us was Vol'Jin. A guy who can swap a 0 mana minion for a 10 mana minion in your hand, and probably activate some crazy insane ridiculous BS on turn 5 that is totally not fun to play against.
I don't know why I thought they wanted to move away from that stuff. Was I just wrong to think that at all? I got the idea from some Q&A I saw somewhere recently though I don't remember where. Maybe I just misinterpreted it.
Well, we have to see what's in the core set and what's in the new expansion.
Pretty sure we will see Voljin as he isn't just a way to mana cheat and shadowstep, but also to sap and dirty rat your opponent.
But I would hold off my judgement until we know more about the cards in the next expansion.
Ehh, Madam Goya didn't see play and Dr.Morrigan even got buffed and didn't see play, i don't know how vol'jin would be any better than those two, specially since the 0 mana card wouldn't have any uses other than the combo...which is not ideal in combo decks.
Specifically, good combos need to be able to just play their pieces as average to decent standalone cards in matchups where it isn't possible to assemble the combo.
Big [Class] Archetypes have pretty much hit their zenith, and all Vol'Jin does is makes them worse from consistency. I doubt he will see much play.
Vol'jin looks pretty gimmicky. It certainly won't reliably be useful as a mana cheat.
He says "owner's." Does that mean you can target a mind controlled minion and get it back? Would the new minion go from your hand to your opponents field? If not, could you use it with shadow madness to steal a minion? So many questions!
edited
I mean they just printed Novice Zapper, a 1 mana 3/2 with spell damage, games aren't going to last very long, but I can see a future with less RNG.
You don't know how predictable hand manipulation would be 10x better than unpredictable deck manipulation ? Have you ever played hearthstone ? And Madam goya is friendly minions only, she can't sap+dirty rat enemies like Voljin. Dr morrigan is just a completely different card and warlock only.
Both of those cards were terrible cause you could get any random minion but Vol'jin is A LOT better cause you can obviously manipulate your hand. A card like this can lead to some serious Barnes levels of bullshit. I'm not saying it'll be great, only time can tell, but for sure it has the potential to be broken.
Imo Voljin will be most used as a minion removal (like sap) or a hand disruptor (like dirty rat) against enemy minions, not as a build around combo activator for friendly minions, but he sure has potential in both areas.
I mean, you are probably right, but I feel like it could be unreliable as a dirty rat. For one, it's mana cost means your opponent doesn't have to worry about it for awhile, and makes it harder for you to deal with whatever you pull from their hand. That and the lack of taunt means you might pull a yshaarj and deny the battlecry, but still get punch in the face. Also it can be played around by denying targets once you have drawn the combo pieces after turn 6. If your opponent doesn't play something for you to swap, then their hand is safe.
Let's think this through, so you need a low cost minion or a Silver Hand Recruit/Totem on board and a higher cost minion without Battlecry in hand to make it work for yourself. So let's say you overpay Vol'jins Stats by 1 because 4 mana for a 3/6 vanilla is standard.
If you play Pala or Shaman you don't need to put the cheap minion in your deck you just pay 2 mana. You lose a card from your hand and get a bad minion in your hand back which means the 2 mana you spent previously are lost ergo the minion you cheat out should be 4 mana or higher to make it worth. In Paladin you don't want your Battlecry minions to get pulled, so Libram, Murloc and Pure Pala are bad options for this card, in Big Pala you usually can't count on a minion to survive so you need to wait till turn 7 and then a 3/6 is not so big of an upside. Also Commencement pulling this is bad. In Shaman this card is useless for Evolve and Totem Shaman, in Big Shaman Muckmorpher didn't work out and this is slower, but it could help Maly Shaman (as late game combo) which would be ok i guess.
Now the other classes need to put cheap minions in the deck and some kind of big minions to be worth it. In DH there are enough cheap minions, but do you really want to play big cards with outcast working so well? Bladed Lady is easier to cheat and all this effort for Priestess of Fury? I do not think so.
Druid is intriguing with Tokens, but aren't Anubisath or Guardian Animals better cheat mechanics? Hunter, Mage, Rogue, Warrior just no, too slow, not much upside. Big Priest hates small minions, Warlock doesn't want to lose Tickatus, Clowns or Y'shaarj but could certainly be interesting with a different build.
At the moment i can't see a class which wants to use it defensively, so what about offensively? In Aggro vs Aggro it is just useless and slow, In Aggro vs Control, Midrange and Combo you have to ask yourself: Do you want a 5 mana Sap which can f**K you up in lets say 50% of the time. Donate them a early Khartut Defender? Aren't there cheaper removal tools and do you wanna go in for the kill or play a 3/6 lol? I don't think Aggro would use this card (even sap was too slow for this meta).
In Midrange, Combo and Control decks this card could shine in a resource war, but we said that about a lot of disruption effects in the last year and they never took of.
All in all sorry for the long post, but if the meta doesn't change drastically to a more Midrange Control Meta i don't see this card working out, which is sad bc Dirty Rat is one of my favorite cards of all time and therefore I guess your concerns are really not realistic, at least before the rotation
It might not be on curve, but strongman costs 0, just saying. Could be played before and after in the same turn. Also once mass res rotates, priest won't have so much small minion hate. I could see this cheating out a blood of gthun on turn 6 with a psychic conjurer or something.
And I still want to know what happens if you use it with shadow madness!
I'm not necessarily worried about the card itself. Any individual card can be good or bad in w/e meta. What I'm really worried about is the mentality behind card design. The desire to continue printing cards with that crazy ridiculous annoying BS super mega ultra combo/bs insane turns/fill the board with unstoppable stuff....mentality.
Maybe voljin is bad. But if they keep making cards with the potential for insanity, it just makes me not want to play the game. It's not fun IMO. Those decks should be meme decks at best if they exist at all. When they dominate the ladder it's like why even play at all? Cheese paladin still running amok. Losing on turn 4 isn't fun. Just the fact that they are still making stuff that has the ability to be abused is disheartening for me.
There were times were most players were eager to get disruption cards like this, there were a lot of Metas in the past where you couldn't interact with your opponents cards at all and both players play a game of solitaire, The disruption effect of this card is amazing, And this card is really rewarding if you know the matchup
For the "crazy ridiculous annoying BS super mega ultra combo/bs insane turns/fill the board with unstoppable stuff..." it is just crazy if you build your deck around this card for the offensive side of things. I don't think anything is wrong with strong legendaries played on turn 5 or later, the problem are cards that generate infinite value, like Galakrond etc and cards that can make itself inherently free. This card card is not free itself, it need support. Will there be a "Spiteful" Vol'jin Deck that is Midrange and playable? I hope so it would be fun to see it work
Nobody cares about standard.
I'd love to see a midrange deck. I just hope that the card pool eliminates any ability for abuse. I feel like when midrange decks cease to exist, something is wrong with the balance of the game.
After all these years people still don’t get the core mechanism of the game... RNG!!! This is what brings them money, this is what sells and this is how it will be, forever!
look at all the trolden videos on YouTube with the thousands of views. All rng, this is what sells get over it