We need this badly. If you are not a hunter or highlander, there is no way to counter this ridiculous number of secrets. Secret mage is just pure cancer at the moment. Not only too many secrets you have to play around but also tons of synergy minions.
Warlock and highlander rogue player here, i haven't seen a secret mage in ages. Also you hurt a relatively weak archetype as rogue secrets by doing that.
I guess I want an anti-secret tech that is actually good.
Of course, this is not the best example, because the deck I was playing (Even Warlock) is not looking too good against Secret Mage anyway, as taking damage on your own turns is bad when your opponent tries to burn you down to 0 as fast as possible already, but Eater of Secrets is pretty bad, even when it shows up on curve.
What happens, is that after you played your Eater and maybe consumed 2-3 Secrets, they first need to be Secrets that would give you the most trouble, like Counterspell, Explosive Runes and Rigged Faire Game. If you eat an Ice Block or even a Netherwind Portal or Duplicate, it helps in some way, but you are not safe from the secrets that actually concern you the most. And because Secret Mage can draw so many Secrets effortlessly, you can't ever be truly safe from them anyway, even if you play a second Eater as well, as I did a few times.
The bigger isssue, however, is that you played your 4 mana 4/6 or 5/7 even, your turn is over, and they still have their Kirin Tor Mage and maybe Arcanologist on the board and just go face. The discount for Kabal Crystal Runner still counts, and as I found out, even destroyed Secrets count for Sayge, Seer of Darkmoon. So, they continue playing like nothing happened, the next wave of secrets comes up, and in the end, they just need to draw their Medivh's Valet, or Fireball, or Cloud Prince, and win the game anyway, while your 4 mana minion is too slow to help your stabilize.
I can't give hard numbers on this, and I guess that my winrate might have been even worse without Eater of Secrets, but with 2 copies teched in, my winrate against Secret Mage (and I've seen a LOT of them) was barely even reaching 50%. That's a pretty miserable outcome for a tech card that does absolutely nothing against anything else in the meta (I might have consumed one Secret from an Odd Paladin). Not that it matters too much, as Secret Mage was by far the most common deck I've run into, but for the investment of using two 4 mana 2/4s, the outcome is quite a letdown.
Secret Mage is just so brutally efficient that you can't even afford to spend a turn removing their secrets, as you need to put all your mana into removing their minions and healing/stalling as much as possible. Even after you removed a round of Secrets, you need to play into future Secrets, just to stay alive. And then your Greater Amethyst Spellstone gets blocked by Counterspell, and you lose.
SI:7 Infiltrator and Chief Inspector are just worse tech cards, so I won't even discuss them. Kezan Mystic is potentially better, just because it forces the opponent to play around their own secret, but Mages usually have at least 2 secrets in play. You can't predict what Secret you will steal, and it might not even slow them down much. Flare is still the best anti-secret tech choice, but it's a Hunter card, and Hunter is one of, if the not the worst class in Wild regardless.
So... yeah, we have tech options, but they don't really do much, or at least not enough to force the deck out of the meta. To be effective, Eater of Secrets would have to cost 2 (with reduced statline) or at most 3 mana. Besides, I don't think tech choices could even affect the meta really. I can't imagine Kingsbane Rogue affording a tech card, I can't really imagine it with Odd Rogue or Odd Paladin either, certainly not with even more aggressive decks like Totem Even Shaman, Darkglare or Discard Warlock, and it's entirely out of question in Big Priest.
Maybe Bomb/Galakrond Warrior might be able to benefit from tech as well, but the decks that are in the best position to use tech are Highlander decks, and they are already best at dealing with Secret Mage, while giving everything else a hard time. If the answer was an increase of the already high playrate of Reno, it wouldn't give me a good feeling either.
That's not to say that Secret Mage is here to stay for all eternity. I'm not even sure whether it needs a nerf, or even better tech answers. Maybe Armor Vendor will do the trick in some decks, maybe Odd Warrior will become more popular (though I don't even know how well it performs against Secret Mage), and the next expansion is likely not too far away either. For most of the currently popular decks, it's just very, very hard to deal with, and tech choices can't do much about that, because they mostly suck.
Sidenote: The main problem with Secret Mage in my opinion is really that they got TWO AoE secret-related cards in SoU with Arcane Flakmage and Flame Ward. Before that, the deck would just lose to anything that can develop a board and rush them down or counter their board. But now, they are resilient to board centric decks, and the latest set gave them additonal tempo. Not unlike Soul Demon Hunter, which didn't have to worry about health and board states because of Shardshatter Mystic, Blade Dance and Aldrachi Warblades, and then got extra tempo from Bladed Lady. Decks need to have their weaknesses intact before getting even stronger.
And before the next smart guy says that this is "always" going to happen in Wild: We've seen a lot of strong archetypes fade out, because most decktypes don't get everything they could ask for, and stay within a limit. Even with Standard asking for some archetypes to get new support or a refresh, you can define and limit classes and decktypes to certain features, and not let them get all over the place. Kingsbane Rogue would be a lot stronger with Leeching Poison and Blade Flurry getting unnerfed or reprinted as such. But instead of giving Kingsbane Rogue heal + AoE, we see a card like Nitroboost Poison: The deck got more efficient, but it still has the same weaknesses. That's how it should be.
the only way to stop this cancer deck is the nerf blizzard the zero cost secrets, mage kirintor and cloud, the deck is ridiculous, there’s no way you can add 6 tech cards to secrets on your deck, eater secret cancels 3 secrets at best, but what about the other 9 secrets and 20 burst damage you get?
I am playing standard at diamond rank and I face regularly secret mages so I really don't know what you're talking about secret mage being played only in wild
We need this badly. If you are not a hunter or highlander, there is no way to counter this ridiculous number of secrets. Secret mage is just pure cancer at the moment. Not only too many secrets you have to play around but also tons of synergy minions.
Even if i try to play to the last HP/mana/Minion/Spell, Concede is the way. Secret Mage is too degenerate, unfun and garbage, that even if I say "Never Concede", this is the only one exception proving the rule.
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EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63/ DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
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We need this badly. If you are not a hunter or highlander, there is no way to counter this ridiculous number of secrets. Secret mage is just pure cancer at the moment. Not only too many secrets you have to play around but also tons of synergy minions.
Worst TED talk ever.
Mage player spotted
From the looks of the conversation thus far, I'm the only one spotted.
Warlock and highlander rogue player here, i haven't seen a secret mage in ages. Also you hurt a relatively weak archetype as rogue secrets by doing that.
Well.. if you're playing wild, you do have secret techs... right?
Chief Inspector
Eater of Secrets
Flare
Kezan Mystic
SI:7 Infiltrator
All of those except flare are neutral.
So what other anti-secret tech do you want?
Secret Mage is only played in Wild.
Wild has tons of anti secret tech.
I dont see the problem.
I guess I want an anti-secret tech that is actually good.
Of course, this is not the best example, because the deck I was playing (Even Warlock) is not looking too good against Secret Mage anyway, as taking damage on your own turns is bad when your opponent tries to burn you down to 0 as fast as possible already, but Eater of Secrets is pretty bad, even when it shows up on curve.
What happens, is that after you played your Eater and maybe consumed 2-3 Secrets, they first need to be Secrets that would give you the most trouble, like Counterspell, Explosive Runes and Rigged Faire Game. If you eat an Ice Block or even a Netherwind Portal or Duplicate, it helps in some way, but you are not safe from the secrets that actually concern you the most. And because Secret Mage can draw so many Secrets effortlessly, you can't ever be truly safe from them anyway, even if you play a second Eater as well, as I did a few times.
The bigger isssue, however, is that you played your 4 mana 4/6 or 5/7 even, your turn is over, and they still have their Kirin Tor Mage and maybe Arcanologist on the board and just go face. The discount for Kabal Crystal Runner still counts, and as I found out, even destroyed Secrets count for Sayge, Seer of Darkmoon. So, they continue playing like nothing happened, the next wave of secrets comes up, and in the end, they just need to draw their Medivh's Valet, or Fireball, or Cloud Prince, and win the game anyway, while your 4 mana minion is too slow to help your stabilize.
I can't give hard numbers on this, and I guess that my winrate might have been even worse without Eater of Secrets, but with 2 copies teched in, my winrate against Secret Mage (and I've seen a LOT of them) was barely even reaching 50%. That's a pretty miserable outcome for a tech card that does absolutely nothing against anything else in the meta (I might have consumed one Secret from an Odd Paladin). Not that it matters too much, as Secret Mage was by far the most common deck I've run into, but for the investment of using two 4 mana 2/4s, the outcome is quite a letdown.
Secret Mage is just so brutally efficient that you can't even afford to spend a turn removing their secrets, as you need to put all your mana into removing their minions and healing/stalling as much as possible. Even after you removed a round of Secrets, you need to play into future Secrets, just to stay alive. And then your Greater Amethyst Spellstone gets blocked by Counterspell, and you lose.
SI:7 Infiltrator and Chief Inspector are just worse tech cards, so I won't even discuss them. Kezan Mystic is potentially better, just because it forces the opponent to play around their own secret, but Mages usually have at least 2 secrets in play. You can't predict what Secret you will steal, and it might not even slow them down much. Flare is still the best anti-secret tech choice, but it's a Hunter card, and Hunter is one of, if the not the worst class in Wild regardless.
So... yeah, we have tech options, but they don't really do much, or at least not enough to force the deck out of the meta. To be effective, Eater of Secrets would have to cost 2 (with reduced statline) or at most 3 mana. Besides, I don't think tech choices could even affect the meta really. I can't imagine Kingsbane Rogue affording a tech card, I can't really imagine it with Odd Rogue or Odd Paladin either, certainly not with even more aggressive decks like Totem Even Shaman, Darkglare or Discard Warlock, and it's entirely out of question in Big Priest.
Maybe Bomb/Galakrond Warrior might be able to benefit from tech as well, but the decks that are in the best position to use tech are Highlander decks, and they are already best at dealing with Secret Mage, while giving everything else a hard time. If the answer was an increase of the already high playrate of Reno, it wouldn't give me a good feeling either.
That's not to say that Secret Mage is here to stay for all eternity. I'm not even sure whether it needs a nerf, or even better tech answers. Maybe Armor Vendor will do the trick in some decks, maybe Odd Warrior will become more popular (though I don't even know how well it performs against Secret Mage), and the next expansion is likely not too far away either. For most of the currently popular decks, it's just very, very hard to deal with, and tech choices can't do much about that, because they mostly suck.
Sidenote:
The main problem with Secret Mage in my opinion is really that they got TWO AoE secret-related cards in SoU with Arcane Flakmage and Flame Ward. Before that, the deck would just lose to anything that can develop a board and rush them down or counter their board. But now, they are resilient to board centric decks, and the latest set gave them additonal tempo. Not unlike Soul Demon Hunter, which didn't have to worry about health and board states because of Shardshatter Mystic, Blade Dance and Aldrachi Warblades, and then got extra tempo from Bladed Lady. Decks need to have their weaknesses intact before getting even stronger.
And before the next smart guy says that this is "always" going to happen in Wild: We've seen a lot of strong archetypes fade out, because most decktypes don't get everything they could ask for, and stay within a limit. Even with Standard asking for some archetypes to get new support or a refresh, you can define and limit classes and decktypes to certain features, and not let them get all over the place. Kingsbane Rogue would be a lot stronger with Leeching Poison and Blade Flurry getting unnerfed or reprinted as such. But instead of giving Kingsbane Rogue heal + AoE, we see a card like Nitroboost Poison: The deck got more efficient, but it still has the same weaknesses. That's how it should be.
the only way to stop this cancer deck is the nerf blizzard the zero cost secrets, mage kirintor and cloud, the deck is ridiculous, there’s no way you can add 6 tech cards to secrets on your deck, eater secret cancels 3 secrets at best, but what about the other 9 secrets and 20 burst damage you get?
I am playing standard at diamond rank and I face regularly secret mages so I really don't know what you're talking about secret mage being played only in wild
Even if i try to play to the last HP/mana/Minion/Spell, Concede is the way. Secret Mage is too degenerate, unfun and garbage, that even if I say "Never Concede", this is the only one exception proving the rule.
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664