I personally think it needs some SERIOUS attention from the devs. I know wild is mean't be be "Wild", but the mana cheating there is getting to a point where games end on turn 4. The top 4 decks are almost all you ever play against, like It feels like you have to tech for them in ANY deck you play or you get run over super fast. I just feel like for a mode which is mean't be a mode where you can play your "favorite decks" It seems like you get obliterated for trying to play them. How can I play my favorite old cards with Secret Mage, Raza Priest and Kingbane rouge just punishes you? EVEN IN THE CASUAL MODE OF WILD IT IS RIDICULOUS
Anyone else think wild could use a balance patch once a year? Just to keep things in check.
I don't play that much wild, but because a lot of people do I honestly think they should balance it once in a while. Nobody who plays Hearthstone will benefit from one game mode being unplayable.
I would prefer a balance patch every two months. Once a year is not enough. Casual players are either meme decks or people who test the top decks/their counterplays to them. This is what happens in a legacy format with only some top decks.
It shouldn't be possible to reduce mana costs to 0 or the secret mage cost reducers should all be nerfed by one mana. Btw Lightning Bloom was a mistake (not necessarily for wild, though). Anduin should be 9 mana, Palm Reading at 4 mana would certainly help as well, but makes priest even worse in standard. I would even consider a some kind of nerf to The Soularium or Power Overwhelming.
I think it would take too much work for them to seriously consider keeping Wild in check. Just like in standard, if they nerf the most played stuff, something else will just emerge to take its place, and the cycle will continue.
And with so many cards to work with, there will always be a bigger fish.
Not to mention, nerfing old cards will make a lot of people unhappy, They seem to prefer "unnerffing" cards when they rotate to wild so people can play them in all the glory they were originally intended for.
Wild is just like people expected a couple of years ago, the power level of decks is absolutely insane. Playing anything other than tier 1 deck is pretty much a form of self torture.
If you were to nerf the best decks other cancerous ones will just take it's place. Something like cubelock or odd demon hunter isn't that popular right now but I dont know if it would be a good thing if they were.
I would like a casual mode where i get put up against decks with an actual similar power level.
I only play wild, and i see a lot of different decks in the casual mode, basically you can play anything you want there for fun, sometimes you will find a secret mage player or pirate rogue but its normal.
Wild has always been like that, personally i dont think its a problem (aside for secret mage demanding a nerf).
But up to Diamond 5 you can have e lot of fun with all kind of decks...there you will meet the 4 same decks over and over.
In opposite what you siad, thats how i feel about standard. Thats why i play only wild. Every now and then i try standard but its soooooo boring with same 2-3 decks over and over. And while i could tech against it, i cant, because the tech cards arent available in standard.
FWIW - during Scholomance, most of the Wild streamers and podcasters were agreed that Wild was in its best state since the format split in 2016. The current meta-game isn't too far removed from that. There are diminishing returns to nerfing stuff in Eternal formats, given that the gap between top-tier decks and not top-tier decks is generally a lot wider - folks will be playing Reno decks, Odd decks, Secret decks, Big decks, etc, ten years from now, regardless of what gets nerfed today . . .
There are diminishing returns to nerfing stuff in Eternal formats, given that the gap between top-tier decks and not top-tier decks is generally a lot wider - folks will be playing Reno decks, Odd decks, Secret decks, Big decks, etc, ten years from now, regardless of what gets nerfed today . . .
Is that accurate? Token druid took one in the nuts with the Voracious Reader nerf. Kingsbane rogue just made a comeback, and big priest before that, with Palm Reading opening up for skipping Barnes entirely. Even shaman and the Jade package are nowhere to be seen, which is unexpected if you look back at their previous dominance.
Tbh, the Wild meta has shifted more through the last 3 expansions than I expected, which suggests the power level has been very high.
i dont think blizzard should nerf wild decks generally, only when some new interaction breaks the format, like they did with the tiller interaction. there are so many powerful interactions in wild, when they nerf one deck anotherone that is held back by that deck just takes over, i dont think the format can truly be balanced through nerfs anymore.
what they can do: add actually playable, neutral counterplay cards to new sets with wild in mind, there's almost nothing playable there. new sets are 50+% packfiller, theres tons of space there designing one card per set targetted at wild. for example: 3 mana 3/4 (taunt maybe?) shuffle 3 cards into your oponents deck do...whatever, doesnt matter. that card does nothing in standard, but if you run into reno priest all day you can just add it. from the top of my head, will be harder to target the other decks.
if cards like that existed players could just balance the mode itself, most decks can handle 2-3 spots for techcards if they are actually playable. effect would be: too many players have a techcard in their deck, players switch to different decks, after that techcards are switched to target the new flavor of the month etc, starting a natural rotation and creating changing metas
Wild players: nooo games end on turn 4, Blizzard pls nerf
Meanwhile Standard with Tip the Scales on 4, a board full of Glowflies as early as turn 3 and Rogue casually throwing out 15 damage from hand on turn 5...
Wild players: nooo games end on turn 4, Blizzard pls nerf
Meanwhile Standard with Tip the Scales on 4, a board full of Glowflies as early as turn 3 and Rogue casually throwing out 15 damage from hand on turn 5...
I mean choosing 3 decks and comparing it to the whole of wild is a little bit short-sighted. Try 30 damage to your hero on turn 4 with token druid, Endless Jades, Drawing 3 cards on turn 1 with rigged Fairegame, Raza and Shadowreaper dealing endless damage basically. Not saying Standard does not have its own problems, but suggesting standard is worse than wild at this moment is a little bit of a far fetched argument I would say.
i dont think blizzard should nerf wild decks generally, only when some new interaction breaks the format, like they did with the tiller interaction. there are so many powerful interactions in wild, when they nerf one deck anotherone that is held back by that deck just takes over, i dont think the format can truly be balanced through nerfs anymore.
what they can do: add actually playable, neutral counterplay cards to new sets with wild in mind, there's almost nothing playable there. new sets are 50+% packfiller, theres tons of space there designing one card per set targetted at wild. for example: 3 mana 3/4 (taunt maybe?) shuffle 3 cards into your oponents deck do...whatever, doesnt matter. that card does nothing in standard, but if you run into reno priest all day you can just add it. from the top of my head, will be harder to target the other decks.
if cards like that existed players could just balance the mode itself, most decks can handle 2-3 spots for techcards if they are actually playable. effect would be: too many players have a techcard in their deck, players switch to different decks, after that techcards are switched to target the new flavor of the month etc, starting a natural rotation and creating changing metas
The cards do exist, the problem is that you can't possibly tech vs all the best decks at once...
need nerf odd paladin, resurrect priest and secret mage, these decks dictate wild rum, if you have 2 super agro decks running there will always be a resurrect priest to counter them, the power level of these decks is ridiculous, agro druid, pirate warrior, kingsbane, everything agro deck is a problem in hs, your opponent unloads his hand and if you have no answer you just lose the game. Secret mage biggest cancer ever made, cancels spell, minion, field and has 30 damage burst
As so many people play wild if it needs balancing they should do it. Personally I'm in the 'wild is wild' camp but after so many years the 'brokeness' must be reaching a critical mass.
What should never happen though is a card that is still in standard is nerfed to accomodate something that is broken in wild like they did with Hysteria. Kill the tiller or the deathspeaker first. Hysteria seems like a strong card that might have got nerfed at some point anyway but it should only happen when it's breaking the standard format.
I play only wild since it came out... its all about periods.. some blocks or nerfs you will have a more stable meta and in other times you will have 1 or 2 decks that are way too powerfull.
Right now i think secret mage,reno and big priest, aggro druid need a touch. They are way too good, specially secret mage ( i arrived to the point where i tech double secret hate in every deck i play).
Secret mage is a problem because the turn 1 plays are just way too strong and the card draw/burn has reached a critical mass that can't really be dealt with. If you nerf the 1-drop and either Runner or Kirin Tor Mage by one mana, the deck is much more beatable. It also speaks volumes that secret mage was the deck with the best options against Tiller, even without teching anything. Token druid can be very strong but as long as priest is in the meta, the deck is not top tier and not nerf material. Odd paladin and kingsbane rogue are both no big deal, I haven't seen pirate warrior in like 2 months, the deck seems dead to me.
Regarding Hysteria nerf, I agree that it was probably wrong to nerf Hysteria instead of Tiller. However, in general, not nerfing probematic wild cards because the cards are relevant in standard is not a valid argument because the formats are independent. Unfortunately, new sets have a very high power level right now. Standard should actually be the format with less power, so a card that is problematic in wild should almost automatically be a problem in standard too, unless there is a very specific interaction in wild. Blizzard has to reduce standard power level.
Secret mage is a problem because the turn 1 plays are just way too strong and the card draw/burn has reached a critical mass that can't really be dealt with. If you nerf the 1-drop and either Runner or Kirin Tor Mage by one mana, the deck is much more beatable. It also speaks volumes that secret mage was the deck with the best options against Tiller, even without teching anything. Token druid can be very strong but as long as priest is in the meta, the deck is not top tier and not nerf material. Odd paladin and kingsbane rogue are both no big deal, I haven't seen pirate warrior in like 2 months, the deck seems dead to me.
Regarding Hysteria nerf, I agree that it was probably wrong to nerf Hysteria instead of Tiller. However, in general, not nerfing probematic wild cards because the cards are relevant in standard is not a valid argument because the formats are independent. Unfortunately, new sets have a very high power level right now. Standard should actually be the format with less power, so a card that is problematic in wild should almost automatically be a problem in standard too, unless there is a very specific interaction in wild. Blizzard has to reduce standard power level.
As much as I agree, the power level in standard is way too far down the rabbit hole for Blizzard to dial it back now. Can you imagine if people had to include a 4 mana do nothing but stats like Yeti in their deck these days?
As for nerfs that effect standard and wild, surely we are at a point where in a game that has 5 different modes to understand, we could include both versions of a card depending on the format?
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I personally think it needs some SERIOUS attention from the devs. I know wild is mean't be be "Wild", but the mana cheating there is getting to a point where games end on turn 4. The top 4 decks are almost all you ever play against, like It feels like you have to tech for them in ANY deck you play or you get run over super fast. I just feel like for a mode which is mean't be a mode where you can play your "favorite decks" It seems like you get obliterated for trying to play them. How can I play my favorite old cards with Secret Mage, Raza Priest and Kingbane rouge just punishes you? EVEN IN THE CASUAL MODE OF WILD IT IS RIDICULOUS
Anyone else think wild could use a balance patch once a year? Just to keep things in check.
I don't play that much wild, but because a lot of people do I honestly think they should balance it once in a while. Nobody who plays Hearthstone will benefit from one game mode being unplayable.
I would prefer a balance patch every two months. Once a year is not enough. Casual players are either meme decks or people who test the top decks/their counterplays to them. This is what happens in a legacy format with only some top decks.
It shouldn't be possible to reduce mana costs to 0 or the secret mage cost reducers should all be nerfed by one mana. Btw Lightning Bloom was a mistake (not necessarily for wild, though). Anduin should be 9 mana, Palm Reading at 4 mana would certainly help as well, but makes priest even worse in standard. I would even consider a some kind of nerf to The Soularium or Power Overwhelming.
I think it would take too much work for them to seriously consider keeping Wild in check. Just like in standard, if they nerf the most played stuff, something else will just emerge to take its place, and the cycle will continue.
And with so many cards to work with, there will always be a bigger fish.
Not to mention, nerfing old cards will make a lot of people unhappy, They seem to prefer "unnerffing" cards when they rotate to wild so people can play them in all the glory they were originally intended for.
Wild is just like people expected a couple of years ago, the power level of decks is absolutely insane. Playing anything other than tier 1 deck is pretty much a form of self torture.
If you were to nerf the best decks other cancerous ones will just take it's place. Something like cubelock or odd demon hunter isn't that popular right now but I dont know if it would be a good thing if they were.
I would like a casual mode where i get put up against decks with an actual similar power level.
I only play wild, and i see a lot of different decks in the casual mode, basically you can play anything you want there for fun, sometimes you will find a secret mage player or pirate rogue but its normal.
Wild has always been like that, personally i dont think its a problem (aside for secret mage demanding a nerf).
Since the last expansion wild got worse. Especially because of Priests and Mages. Kingsbane Rogue popped up lately. But it can be beaten quiet good.
The worst cards are Blood of G'huun and Rigged Faire Game.
But up to Diamond 5 you can have e lot of fun with all kind of decks...there you will meet the 4 same decks over and over.
In opposite what you siad, thats how i feel about standard. Thats why i play only wild. Every now and then i try standard but its soooooo boring with same 2-3 decks over and over. And while i could tech against it, i cant, because the tech cards arent available in standard.
Worst failure Blizzard ever made was creating standard and wild format. Wild should be only one to exist.
FWIW - during Scholomance, most of the Wild streamers and podcasters were agreed that Wild was in its best state since the format split in 2016. The current meta-game isn't too far removed from that. There are diminishing returns to nerfing stuff in Eternal formats, given that the gap between top-tier decks and not top-tier decks is generally a lot wider - folks will be playing Reno decks, Odd decks, Secret decks, Big decks, etc, ten years from now, regardless of what gets nerfed today . . .
Is that accurate? Token druid took one in the nuts with the Voracious Reader nerf. Kingsbane rogue just made a comeback, and big priest before that, with Palm Reading opening up for skipping Barnes entirely. Even shaman and the Jade package are nowhere to be seen, which is unexpected if you look back at their previous dominance.
Tbh, the Wild meta has shifted more through the last 3 expansions than I expected, which suggests the power level has been very high.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
i dont think blizzard should nerf wild decks generally, only when some new interaction breaks the format, like they did with the tiller interaction. there are so many powerful interactions in wild, when they nerf one deck anotherone that is held back by that deck just takes over, i dont think the format can truly be balanced through nerfs anymore.
what they can do: add actually playable, neutral counterplay cards to new sets with wild in mind, there's almost nothing playable there. new sets are 50+% packfiller, theres tons of space there designing one card per set targetted at wild. for example: 3 mana 3/4 (taunt maybe?) shuffle 3 cards into your oponents deck do...whatever, doesnt matter. that card does nothing in standard, but if you run into reno priest all day you can just add it. from the top of my head, will be harder to target the other decks.
if cards like that existed players could just balance the mode itself, most decks can handle 2-3 spots for techcards if they are actually playable. effect would be: too many players have a techcard in their deck, players switch to different decks, after that techcards are switched to target the new flavor of the month etc, starting a natural rotation and creating changing metas
Wild players: nooo games end on turn 4, Blizzard pls nerf
Meanwhile Standard with Tip the Scales on 4, a board full of Glowflies as early as turn 3 and Rogue casually throwing out 15 damage from hand on turn 5...
I mean choosing 3 decks and comparing it to the whole of wild is a little bit short-sighted. Try 30 damage to your hero on turn 4 with token druid, Endless Jades, Drawing 3 cards on turn 1 with rigged Fairegame, Raza and Shadowreaper dealing endless damage basically. Not saying Standard does not have its own problems, but suggesting standard is worse than wild at this moment is a little bit of a far fetched argument I would say.
The cards do exist, the problem is that you can't possibly tech vs all the best decks at once...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
need nerf odd paladin, resurrect priest and secret mage, these decks dictate wild rum, if you have 2 super agro decks running there will always be a resurrect priest to counter them, the power level of these decks is ridiculous, agro druid, pirate warrior, kingsbane, everything agro deck is a problem in hs, your opponent unloads his hand and if you have no answer you just lose the game. Secret mage biggest cancer ever made, cancels spell, minion, field and has 30 damage burst
As so many people play wild if it needs balancing they should do it. Personally I'm in the 'wild is wild' camp but after so many years the 'brokeness' must be reaching a critical mass.
What should never happen though is a card that is still in standard is nerfed to accomodate something that is broken in wild like they did with Hysteria. Kill the tiller or the deathspeaker first. Hysteria seems like a strong card that might have got nerfed at some point anyway but it should only happen when it's breaking the standard format.
I play only wild since it came out... its all about periods.. some blocks or nerfs you will have a more stable meta and in other times you will have 1 or 2 decks that are way too powerfull.
Right now i think secret mage,reno and big priest, aggro druid need a touch. They are way too good, specially secret mage ( i arrived to the point where i tech double secret hate in every deck i play).
PRIEST
For years I avoided Wild, and back in December I thought I’d give it a try. I love it! But I do get tired of the Big Priests.
Secret mage is a problem because the turn 1 plays are just way too strong and the card draw/burn has reached a critical mass that can't really be dealt with. If you nerf the 1-drop and either Runner or Kirin Tor Mage by one mana, the deck is much more beatable. It also speaks volumes that secret mage was the deck with the best options against Tiller, even without teching anything. Token druid can be very strong but as long as priest is in the meta, the deck is not top tier and not nerf material. Odd paladin and kingsbane rogue are both no big deal, I haven't seen pirate warrior in like 2 months, the deck seems dead to me.
Regarding Hysteria nerf, I agree that it was probably wrong to nerf Hysteria instead of Tiller. However, in general, not nerfing probematic wild cards because the cards are relevant in standard is not a valid argument because the formats are independent. Unfortunately, new sets have a very high power level right now. Standard should actually be the format with less power, so a card that is problematic in wild should almost automatically be a problem in standard too, unless there is a very specific interaction in wild. Blizzard has to reduce standard power level.
As much as I agree, the power level in standard is way too far down the rabbit hole for Blizzard to dial it back now. Can you imagine if people had to include a 4 mana do nothing but stats like Yeti in their deck these days?
As for nerfs that effect standard and wild, surely we are at a point where in a game that has 5 different modes to understand, we could include both versions of a card depending on the format?