Heard some other people talking about waste warden and if it would be good or not, its the only really tech card that all classes can use to clear a board of murlocs.
I imagine there is no very specific counter to it at the moment, but obviously if they ramp you to 10 mana, you can be ready with some high cost cards. But you know that the following turn is probably a bunch of rushy Murlocs or a big taunt, so you can prepare your removal.
Waste Warden is indeed an interesting tech as he will clear all murlocs except the 1/4 windfury guys. Although there is an alternative deck that runs the 4/5 taunt Amalgams as well and these would also survive from Waste Warden. Apart from that, I don't think any class really has a reliable tool to clear a board full of murlocs on t5, outside of Warrior with Brawl and maybe Lifesteal OTK DH with Mo'arg into Immolation Aura
Control warlock has some decent tools for this. If they highroll you're obviously screwed but that's the same for druid at the moment as well.
Between dark skies, hysteria, twisting nether, plague of flames you're fairly well covered on board clears. If you really wanted to target this deck specifically then there's hellfire and crazed netherwings you can throw in as well.
I prefer the Control Warlock variant without Galakrond or Plague of Flames, but rather with a soul fragment stuff and demon focus. And there I'd consider running the new demon Fire Breather as, combined with School Spirits, it is a 7-mana AOE that can clear their Carnival Clowns
Also, for anyone interested, Clown Druid works great - if they get Noz it's beneficial to you as you were trying to get to 10 mana asap anyway. Just make sure you have that clown and a way to corrupt it, and there are many high value/high cost cards and taunts that cost no mana conditionally. Also, broom is key in this matchup, so to make room this season it's worth cutting the greedier options like old gods and sticking just with Ysera. So far works great in current meta, going 10-2 overall and 3-0 vs paladin.
What's worse than hyper aggressive deck, designed to deal over 30 face dmg in about 4-5 turns? Hyper aggressive deck with mana cheating that can fill the board with stuff worth over 20 mana as early as turn 4-5 (I'm pointing at Evolve Shaman, Ramp Paladin and Token Druid)...
Is this still a multiplayer game (you know, with interactions between players), or just one-sided race to do the most broken BS before your opponent does and make him concede since he most likely won't have answer to your play?
Is this just me, or most games are now decided by matchups, not players decisions? After all, what decisions can be made when you have like 6 cards in your hand and your opponent has lethal on board on turn 5? It's a gamble...
What's next? 0 mana minion: "It starts in your hand. Battlecry: Win the game"? It seems like Blizzard doesn't want the game to be interactive, so why not?
I'm really not against the Nozdormu play, because it's an equal reaction and the opponent will have the first turn with 10 mana, but cheating out Tip the Scales with Alura is a bit of an issue. I understand it's not unbeatable, but it certainly is problematic in a lot of cases.
I suspect if Ramp Paladin continues to be played too much on ladder they will probably make an adjustment to either Alura or Tip the Scales.
I mean, they nerfed evolve shaman because it was making ridiculously oppressive boards way too early and consistently, so... this seems to line up with that thinking.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a viable tech card to really make a difference in this matchup. As of right now, this deck essentially has green matchups across the board. We'll just have to wait & see how the meta responds to it. I've had success with HL Mage, however, it's a very draw dependant matchup.
The issue is crabrider. That one card essentially carries the deck & they don't die to Waste Warden due to having 4 health. Early Nozdormu into Tip The Scales is usually GG, solely due to crabriders clearing your entire board & forcing you to have an immediate answer or simply die on the following turn.
What's worse than hyper aggressive deck, designed to deal over 30 face dmg in about 4-5 turns? Hyper aggressive deck with mana cheating that can fill the board with stuff worth over 20 mana as early as turn 4-5 (I'm pointing at Evolve Shaman, Ramp Paladin and Token Druid)...
Is this still a multiplayer game (you know, with interactions between players), or just one-sided race to do the most broken BS before your opponent does and make him concede since he most likely won't have answer to your play?
Is this just me, or most games are now decided by matchups, not players decisions? After all, what decisions can be made when you have like 6 cards in your hand and your opponent has lethal on board on turn 5? It's a gamble...
What's next? 0 mana minion: "It starts in your hand. Battlecry: Win the game"? It seems like Blizzard doesn't want the game to be interactive, so why not?
I wouldn't call a deck with so many 8+ mana cards hyper aggressive. It's just a highroll deck and I'm surprised by its consistency when there is no other spell to combo with alura except coin where you have to win a 50-50 of being 2nd or drawing one of the 2 wandmakers in a 30 card deck.
Well, to me aggression is related to speed. If deck can produce huge damage potential (up to lethal) in very early game (like first 4-5 turns), then I consider it aggressive.
According to Hearthstone Gamepedia:
An aggro deck or aggressive deck, also known as a rush deck, is a deck that takes an 'aggressive' approach of dealing damage to the opponent as quickly as possible (...) Aggro decks rely on explosive damage in the early game in order to surge to victory before the opponent has time to counter them.
This is exactly what those early game mana cheating decks does. Overwhelms the opponent before he can do anything.
Then they should also mention that aggro decks seek to do this consistently while ramp paladin either has alura and coin to swarm the board on turn 4 or they won't do anything until turn 8. Again, you only see half of the deck as being hyper aggressive thanks to a highroll potential which means the deck is mainly focused on highrolling rather than swarming the board consistently to put pressure on opponents (what aggro decks do).
And that quote from hearthstone gamepedia contradicts with what ramp paladin does. This deck doesn't just relly on an 'aggressive' approach of dealing damage to the opponent as quickly as possible.That's a part of their plan but the late game is ridiculous.
Play weapon rogue, pressure in first 4 turns and when he ramp you to sweet 10 manas finishing him.
I have 90% winrate vs this deck, only one time my hand was really bad and don't have early pressure the paladin manage to put walls hard enough to stop my deck.
What are the best tech cards against Ramp Paladin?
Heard some other people talking about waste warden and if it would be good or not, its the only really tech card that all classes can use to clear a board of murlocs.
I imagine there is no very specific counter to it at the moment, but obviously if they ramp you to 10 mana, you can be ready with some high cost cards. But you know that the following turn is probably a bunch of rushy Murlocs or a big taunt, so you can prepare your removal.
I've had some decent success with highlander mage, since The Amazing Reno and Zephrys the Great are nice cards against that stuff.
Waste Warden is indeed an interesting tech as he will clear all murlocs except the 1/4 windfury guys. Although there is an alternative deck that runs the 4/5 taunt Amalgams as well and these would also survive from Waste Warden. Apart from that, I don't think any class really has a reliable tool to clear a board full of murlocs on t5, outside of Warrior with Brawl and maybe Lifesteal OTK DH with Mo'arg into Immolation Aura
Mage, using doomsayer and frost nova, can do the trick
Maybe try Maiev Shadowsong for their big minions? Idk
big warrior
vs paladin I'm 6 -2 for now It's usually around 58 % win-rate vs paladins on HSreplay
https://hsreplay.net/decks/9PTagyZ5A5gzAG1WJHtMYb/?utm_source=hdt&utm_medium=client&utm_campaign=mulliganguide#tab=overview
you run 2 brawls and I really really want them to pull Nozdormu out because you have big stuff in deck and loads of answers.
Had a few games when on their Nozdormu turns I just did Commencement + Coerce to kill nozdormu and have a big minion in play
worst matchup is priest but who plays priest right?
just try c/war or c/sham
Control warlock has some decent tools for this. If they highroll you're obviously screwed but that's the same for druid at the moment as well.
Between dark skies, hysteria, twisting nether, plague of flames you're fairly well covered on board clears. If you really wanted to target this deck specifically then there's hellfire and crazed netherwings you can throw in as well.
I prefer the Control Warlock variant without Galakrond or Plague of Flames, but rather with a soul fragment stuff and demon focus. And there I'd consider running the new demon Fire Breather as, combined with School Spirits, it is a 7-mana AOE that can clear their Carnival Clowns
Hard Control Warlock farms ramp pally.
Just put 2xCascading Disaster, 2xTwisting Nether,2xSchool Spirits, 2xDark Skies,Keli'dan the Breaker,Soulciologist Malicia,Tickatus and Y'Shaarj, the Defiler.
Also, for anyone interested, Clown Druid works great - if they get Noz it's beneficial to you as you were trying to get to 10 mana asap anyway. Just make sure you have that clown and a way to corrupt it, and there are many high value/high cost cards and taunts that cost no mana conditionally. Also, broom is key in this matchup, so to make room this season it's worth cutting the greedier options like old gods and sticking just with Ysera. So far works great in current meta, going 10-2 overall and 3-0 vs paladin.
What's worse than hyper aggressive deck, designed to deal over 30 face dmg in about 4-5 turns? Hyper aggressive deck with mana cheating that can fill the board with stuff worth over 20 mana as early as turn 4-5 (I'm pointing at Evolve Shaman, Ramp Paladin and Token Druid)...
Is this still a multiplayer game (you know, with interactions between players), or just one-sided race to do the most broken BS before your opponent does and make him concede since he most likely won't have answer to your play?
Is this just me, or most games are now decided by matchups, not players decisions? After all, what decisions can be made when you have like 6 cards in your hand and your opponent has lethal on board on turn 5? It's a gamble...
What's next? 0 mana minion: "It starts in your hand. Battlecry: Win the game"? It seems like Blizzard doesn't want the game to be interactive, so why not?
I'm really not against the Nozdormu play, because it's an equal reaction and the opponent will have the first turn with 10 mana, but cheating out Tip the Scales with Alura is a bit of an issue. I understand it's not unbeatable, but it certainly is problematic in a lot of cases.
I suspect if Ramp Paladin continues to be played too much on ladder they will probably make an adjustment to either Alura or Tip the Scales.
I mean, they nerfed evolve shaman because it was making ridiculously oppressive boards way too early and consistently, so... this seems to line up with that thinking.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a viable tech card to really make a difference in this matchup. As of right now, this deck essentially has green matchups across the board. We'll just have to wait & see how the meta responds to it. I've had success with HL Mage, however, it's a very draw dependant matchup.
The issue is crabrider. That one card essentially carries the deck & they don't die to Waste Warden due to having 4 health. Early Nozdormu into Tip The Scales is usually GG, solely due to crabriders clearing your entire board & forcing you to have an immediate answer or simply die on the following turn.
I wouldn't call a deck with so many 8+ mana cards hyper aggressive. It's just a highroll deck and I'm surprised by its consistency when there is no other spell to combo with alura except coin where you have to win a 50-50 of being 2nd or drawing one of the 2 wandmakers in a 30 card deck.
@enoX_36
Well, to me aggression is related to speed. If deck can produce huge damage potential (up to lethal) in very early game (like first 4-5 turns), then I consider it aggressive.
According to Hearthstone Gamepedia:
An aggro deck or aggressive deck, also known as a rush deck, is a deck that takes an 'aggressive' approach of dealing damage to the opponent as quickly as possible (...) Aggro decks rely on explosive damage in the early game in order to surge to victory before the opponent has time to counter them.
This is exactly what those early game mana cheating decks does. Overwhelms the opponent before he can do anything.
Then they should also mention that aggro decks seek to do this consistently while ramp paladin either has alura and coin to swarm the board on turn 4 or they won't do anything until turn 8. Again, you only see half of the deck as being hyper aggressive thanks to a highroll potential which means the deck is mainly focused on highrolling rather than swarming the board consistently to put pressure on opponents (what aggro decks do).
And that quote from hearthstone gamepedia contradicts with what ramp paladin does. This deck doesn't just relly on an 'aggressive' approach of dealing damage to the opponent as quickly as possible. That's a part of their plan but the late game is ridiculous.
Play weapon rogue, pressure in first 4 turns and when he ramp you to sweet 10 manas finishing him.
I have 90% winrate vs this deck, only one time my hand was really bad and don't have early pressure the paladin manage to put walls hard enough to stop my deck.
Wrenchcaliber and devolving missiles.