Hearthpwn

So is the problem just mage secrets or all secrets? Do people have a hard time playing around hunter, paladin or rouge secrets?

Secrets are one of the only times you actually have to think in HS. That's both in when to play them and how to play around them. The player using the secret can actually use it to bluff at certain times, which adds loads of depth to the game. And the opponent isn't so much "guessing" as doing a cost/risk analysis, forcing you to thoroughly plan out your turn. Which also brings much needed depth to an otherwise extremely turn based game.

This is true for standard anyway, where there are typically only a few playable secrets at a time. In wild, sure I guess you feel like you're just at the mercy of the game. But wild's ridiculous anyway so..

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

reason why secrets need to be visible for your opponent is because some of them are problematic and without any counter play,
I was thinking of adding weapons also (weapons damage potential should be max twice its mana cost) 

the power of it being secret and making people "miss play" by guessing wrong is in my view not great design, a problem that only arrived after they started pushing the "secret type deck" that incentivizes people to add secrets to their deck based on it being a secret instead of what the secret brings to their deck type like fx freeze mage back in the days adding secrets for survival or tempo mage adding them for tempo.

a secret will still be a unique card in that it does not activate on play but rather on a specific trigger condition 

Secrets should never be visible. Just because secret mage beat you up doesn’t mean we need to have things you don’t like get nerfed into the ground. Eye roll

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Secrets are one of the only times you actually have to think in HS. That's both in when to play them and how to play around them. The player using the secret can actually use it to bluff at certain times, which adds loads of depth to the game. And the opponent isn't so much "guessing" as doing a cost/risk analysis, forcing you to thoroughly plan out your turn. Which also brings much needed depth to an otherwise extremely turn based game.

This is true for standard anyway, where there are typically only a few playable secrets at a time. In wild, sure I guess you feel like you're just at the mercy of the game. But wild's ridiculous anyway so..

 there is nothing to think about, cost/risk analysis? lol

maybe you spend a lot of time to think in these situations but spoiler alert it is all pointless because it is completely random if he played the secret you was thinking hard and long to play around or not...

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Secrets are one of the only times you actually have to think in HS. That's both in when to play them and how to play around them. The player using the secret can actually use it to bluff at certain times, which adds loads of depth to the game. And the opponent isn't so much "guessing" as doing a cost/risk analysis, forcing you to thoroughly plan out your turn. Which also brings much needed depth to an otherwise extremely turn based game.

This is true for standard anyway, where there are typically only a few playable secrets at a time. In wild, sure I guess you feel like you're just at the mercy of the game. But wild's ridiculous anyway so..

 there is nothing to think about, cost/risk analysis? lol

maybe you spend a lot of time to think in these situations but spoiler alert it is all pointless because it is completely random if he played the secret you was thinking hard and long to play around or not...

 Your response is not based in reality at all. First of all it's not random, at high levels of play vs meta decks, the exact secrets in a given deck are known by both players. So now for instance, if I know my opponent runs two of secret A, and teo of secret B, and I've already triggered two of secret A, I now know (because I've been paying attention) the next secret he plays is secret B. Or maybe he's only played one of A and none of B, those are odds I can use in making my decision. Not to mention, which of the two secrets I know he has in his deck is he more likely to play given the board state?

Cost/risk exist, you have to ask yourself, which outcome can I live with? Which secret punishes me more if I ignore it? How do I attack into my enemy hunter's secret. Which is worse for me right now at this stage of the game? Do I attack first and have my minion freezing trapped, or do I cast a spell and have it pressure plastered? Which secret would I like to know isn't there for my next turn? Which one of these outcomes is a tempo lose or a value lose? And what would I do with the rest of my turn based on the outcome and information I get from the test?

The fact that newer players struggle more with secrets then experienced players illustrates that it is a skill testing aspect of the game.

Aside from the discount to 0 stuff its clear why u arent in the dev team. I can understand tickatus being 8 mana too

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Secrets are one of the only times you actually have to think in HS. That's both in when to play them and how to play around them. The player using the secret can actually use it to bluff at certain times, which adds loads of depth to the game. And the opponent isn't so much "guessing" as doing a cost/risk analysis, forcing you to thoroughly plan out your turn. Which also brings much needed depth to an otherwise extremely turn based game.

This is true for standard anyway, where there are typically only a few playable secrets at a time. In wild, sure I guess you feel like you're just at the mercy of the game. But wild's ridiculous anyway so..

 there is nothing to think about, cost/risk analysis? lol

maybe you spend a lot of time to think in these situations but spoiler alert it is all pointless because it is completely random if he played the secret you was thinking hard and long to play around or not...

 Your response is not based in reality at all. First of all it's not random, at high levels of play vs meta decks, the exact secrets in a given deck are known by both players. So now for instance, if I know my opponent runs two of secret A, and teo of secret B, and I've already triggered two of secret A, I now know (because I've been paying attention) the next secret he plays is secret B. Or maybe he's only played one of A and none of B, those are odds I can use in making my decision. Not to mention, which of the two secrets I know he has in his deck is he more likely to play given the board state?

Cost/risk exist, you have to ask yourself, which outcome can I live with? Which secret punishes me more if I ignore it? How do I attack into my enemy hunter's secret. Which is worse for me right now at this stage of the game? Do I attack first and have my minion freezing trapped, or do I cast a spell and have it pressure plastered? Which secret would I like to know isn't there for my next turn? Which one of these outcomes is a tempo lose or a value lose? And what would I do with the rest of my turn based on the outcome and information I get from the test?

The fact that newer players struggle more with secrets then experienced players illustrates that it is a skill testing aspect of the game.

 8 secrets in the deck 3 of them duplicated your opponent plays 1 of them which one is it?... the draw is random so therefor it could be any of the secrets so the secret is random.
the argument is the larger a pool size of secrets the more unpredictable the secret will be...there is no skill when the pool size gets that big it is at best educated guessing but at the end it is totally random due to jukes or just play whatever the draw gets you for tempo (which is the correct way to play most of the time)

noob

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Secrets are one of the only times you actually have to think in HS. That's both in when to play them and how to play around them. The player using the secret can actually use it to bluff at certain times, which adds loads of depth to the game. And the opponent isn't so much "guessing" as doing a cost/risk analysis, forcing you to thoroughly plan out your turn. Which also brings much needed depth to an otherwise extremely turn based game.

This is true for standard anyway, where there are typically only a few playable secrets at a time. In wild, sure I guess you feel like you're just at the mercy of the game. But wild's ridiculous anyway so..

 there is nothing to think about, cost/risk analysis? lol

maybe you spend a lot of time to think in these situations but spoiler alert it is all pointless because it is completely random if he played the secret you was thinking hard and long to play around or not...

 Your response is not based in reality at all. First of all it's not random, at high levels of play vs meta decks, the exact secrets in a given deck are known by both players. So now for instance, if I know my opponent runs two of secret A, and teo of secret B, and I've already triggered two of secret A, I now know (because I've been paying attention) the next secret he plays is secret B. Or maybe he's only played one of A and none of B, those are odds I can use in making my decision. Not to mention, which of the two secrets I know he has in his deck is he more likely to play given the board state?

Cost/risk exist, you have to ask yourself, which outcome can I live with? Which secret punishes me more if I ignore it? How do I attack into my enemy hunter's secret. Which is worse for me right now at this stage of the game? Do I attack first and have my minion freezing trapped, or do I cast a spell and have it pressure plastered? Which secret would I like to know isn't there for my next turn? Which one of these outcomes is a tempo lose or a value lose? And what would I do with the rest of my turn based on the outcome and information I get from the test?

The fact that newer players struggle more with secrets then experienced players illustrates that it is a skill testing aspect of the game.

 8 secrets in the deck 3 of them duplicated your opponent plays 1 of them which one is it?... the draw is random so therefor it could be any of the secrets so the secret is random.
the argument is the larger a pool size of secrets the more unpredictable the secret will be...there is no skill when the pool size gets that big it is at best educated guessing but at the end it is totally random due to jukes or just play whatever the draw gets you for tempo (which is the correct way to play most of the time)

noob

 The unprovoked insult just goes to show how serious you should be taken. I've given you examples of how there is more to secrets then you suggest. You create threads in a false guise of discussion. You're not interested in reason, you're only interested in being right (even when you're not). When I saw your name on the thread I hesitated to post, I'll know better in the future.

the reason I dont like about secrets is that now there are too many of them and you cant really play around them. I think secrets are meant to be completely "play around" cards so that you wouldnt get absolutely wrecked by 1 card. but it is not the case nowadays. when you try to play around 1 secret, the other possibility completely destroys you. that should be changed I think.

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from Loomineyes >>

Secrets are one of the only times you actually have to think in HS. That's both in when to play them and how to play around them. The player using the secret can actually use it to bluff at certain times, which adds loads of depth to the game. And the opponent isn't so much "guessing" as doing a cost/risk analysis, forcing you to thoroughly plan out your turn. Which also brings much needed depth to an otherwise extremely turn based game.

This is true for standard anyway, where there are typically only a few playable secrets at a time. In wild, sure I guess you feel like you're just at the mercy of the game. But wild's ridiculous anyway so..

 there is nothing to think about, cost/risk analysis? lol

maybe you spend a lot of time to think in these situations but spoiler alert it is all pointless because it is completely random if he played the secret you was thinking hard and long to play around or not...

 Your response is not based in reality at all. First of all it's not random, at high levels of play vs meta decks, the exact secrets in a given deck are known by both players. So now for instance, if I know my opponent runs two of secret A, and teo of secret B, and I've already triggered two of secret A, I now know (because I've been paying attention) the next secret he plays is secret B. Or maybe he's only played one of A and none of B, those are odds I can use in making my decision. Not to mention, which of the two secrets I know he has in his deck is he more likely to play given the board state?

Cost/risk exist, you have to ask yourself, which outcome can I live with? Which secret punishes me more if I ignore it? How do I attack into my enemy hunter's secret. Which is worse for me right now at this stage of the game? Do I attack first and have my minion freezing trapped, or do I cast a spell and have it pressure plastered? Which secret would I like to know isn't there for my next turn? Which one of these outcomes is a tempo lose or a value lose? And what would I do with the rest of my turn based on the outcome and information I get from the test?

The fact that newer players struggle more with secrets then experienced players illustrates that it is a skill testing aspect of the game.

 8 secrets in the deck 3 of them duplicated your opponent plays 1 of them which one is it?... the draw is random so therefor it could be any of the secrets so the secret is random.
the argument is the larger a pool size of secrets the more unpredictable the secret will be...there is no skill when the pool size gets that big it is at best educated guessing but at the end it is totally random due to jukes or just play whatever the draw gets you for tempo (which is the correct way to play most of the time)

noob

 Imagine calling someone noob just because you can't play around certain cards. By your logic, everyone should be able to see opponent's hand. I'm at 6 health, my opponent has soulfire in hand but I don't know that so I life tap to find heal or something to deal with their board in a more efficient way, now I die to soulfire because I didn't play around it. Why can't blizzard make the cards in opponent's hand visible so I can play around them? I understand this is a children card game but that doesn't mean you don't have to think and play around cards at all especially if they are not "created by". So instead of raging at someone who explains how the game works, just learn to play around specific cards that have a high play rate at your rank.

being able to see cards that are played is not the same as seeing cards that are not played, bad attempt at a strawman, a post in bad faith and a total waste of time...
atleast the other idiot said something that was true, even tho it was irrelevant it was understandable to come to his conclusion but you are just being horrible because you got offended by the word noob


if you got criticism feel free to explain it otherwise you will get disregarded like everyone else who are incapable of making arguments... noob 

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

being able to see cards that are played is not the same as seeing cards that are not played, bad attempt at a strawman, a post in bad faith and a total waste of time...
atleast the other idiot said something that was true, even tho it was irrelevant it was understandable to come to his conclusion but you are just being horrible because you got offended by the word noob


if you got criticism feel free to explain it otherwise you will get disregarded like everyone else who are incapable of making arguments... noob 

 A crybaby will never stop whining. The point was to show you how every competent player has to play around certain cards, it doesn't matter if they are in your opponent's hand/deck/board/battlefield(secrets in this case). Of course it's easier to complain than actually playing around something, the good old story. Same with tickatus, you play control and lose to it? Put some cards that shuffle more cards in your deck: elysiana, c'thun etc. and don't use card draw in that match up. In case you didn't notice after all this time, even if they burn 10 cards from your deck the fatigue game is still pretty close because warlocks draw a lot. Thijs made a highlander mage and beat most of tick locks in fatigue but yeah, why would you think about a counter play when you can just cry on a forum? You can call me noob, I don't mind. After all, I'm not the one stuck in gold-plat.

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

reason why secrets need to be visible for your opponent is because some of them are problematic and without any counter play

 all secrets have counterplay, its called using your brain via context clues to minimize their effectiveness

The secret pool is a little too vast, and some of the secrets are WAY too feast or famine (Counterspell, Freezing Trap). But testing for secrets is one of the skills players of this game have. Making them always revealed would be really silly.

Don't really like any of these other ideas at all.

I don't mind secrets too much, but I do hate the secret support the HS team has created this expansion. Just made secret mage in wild that much more annoying, and it feels like a huge slog to get past everything it throws at me.

Quote from Marega >>

Aside from the discount to 0 stuff its clear why u arent in the dev team. I can understand tickatus being 8 mana too

Why do people make comments like this; insulting, yet no backing up their comment. You're better off just not replying at all, as you contribute nothing to the table. 

While I don't quite agree with all of his points, (1) and (5) are valid, and (3) with discover is certainly an issue in the current meta. Discover used to have a trade off with less tempo, while there is simply too much value-creation with combination of cards and powercreep that some matches feel like they are being drafted while you play the game at no loss of tempo. 

Some of the discovers are also quite consistent, so that you're cheesing out the limit 2-cards in a deck. The discover mechanics certainly needs a rework, or a change. 

1. Autosquelch option in menu

2. Autosquelch option in menu

3. Autosquelch option in menu

4. Autosquelch option in menu

5. Autosquelch option in menu

The only true point is the cost reduction not to 0. no cards should cost nothing. That would also kinda solve the secret mage problem because it casts almost any secret for nothing.

To be able to see secrets is a horrible idea. Then you can simply delete the cards from the game. Would be the same result.

i don‘t really care about Tickatus so i have no opinion about that.

The randomness in the game is something i actually appreciate since it‘s the only thing that seperates it from the normal real card games like Magic. But it should be less polarizing. Random targets are funny, random summons can be incredibly unfair.

Quote from grokl77 >>

1. Autosquelch option in menu

2. Autosquelch option in menu

3. Autosquelch option in menu

4. Autosquelch option in menu

5. Autosquelch option in menu

Are you actually so pathetically lazy and/or possessing such a fickle and frail ego that you can’t push one squelch button per match? If so you’re problems extend well beyond a perceived ‘BM’ emote. Grow up or get out