1. no card can reduce its original cost below 1 2. secret cards would be visible for the opponent 3. no random generation / discover effect cards below 6 mana 4- giants can at most be reduced to 3 mana 5. tickatus changed to 8 mana
The second and fourth are completely uncalled for. If no card can be reduced below 0, then giants should abide by this rule too.
Visible secrets make them not-so-secret, so this is just your subjective complaint after losing to some secret based decks.
I do agree with the rest though. Too bad blizzard's willingness to truly balance the game is zero. They make too much money from the teenagers' parents' credit cards to remove so much highroll potential from the game.
reason why secrets need to be visible for your opponent is because some of them are problematic and without any counter play, I was thinking of adding weapons also (weapons damage potential should be max twice its mana cost)
the power of it being secret and making people "miss play" by guessing wrong is in my view not great design, a problem that only arrived after they started pushing the "secret type deck" that incentivizes people to add secrets to their deck based on it being a secret instead of what the secret brings to their deck type like fx freeze mage back in the days adding secrets for survival or tempo mage adding them for tempo.
a secret will still be a unique card in that it does not activate on play but rather on a specific trigger condition
reason why secrets need to be visible for your opponent is because some of them are problematic and without any counter play, I was thinking of adding weapons also (weapons damage potential should be max twice its mana cost)
the power of it being secret and making people "miss play" by guessing wrong is in my view not great design, a problem that only arrived after they started pushing the "secret type deck" that incentivizes people to add secrets to their deck based on it being a secret instead of what the secret brings to their deck type like fx freeze mage back in the days adding secrets for survival or tempo mage adding them for tempo.
a secret will still be a unique card in that it does not activate on play but rather on a specific trigger condition
Secrets that are visible for the opponent could be just a new type of card. I really think it's not a bad idea to be honest.
Can 'secrets' also be visible to those spectating? In what sense of the word would they be 'secrets' exactly?
Secrets are now removed from the game. They have been replaced with:
"Obvious trap" cards.
This will bring players back to a simpler time, when traps in dungeons were so obvious, you could see them from a room away.
"Hmm.. that glowing treasure in the middle of the next room, clearly illuminated on a pedestal to attract my attention and not make me think about the consequences of touching it is very appealing. Let us walk towards it without concern for the seemingly empty room surrounding it!"
Can 'secrets' also be visible to those spectating? In what sense of the word would they be 'secrets' exactly?
Secrets are now removed from the game. They have been replaced with:
"Obvious trap" cards.
This will bring players back to a simpler time, when traps in dungeons were so obvious, you could see them from a room away.
"Hmm.. that glowing treasure in the middle of the next room, clearly illuminated on a pedestal to attract my attention and not make me think about the consequences of touching it is very appealing. Let us walk towards it without concern for the seemingly empty room surrounding it!"
But secrets are not always "traps", see Ice Barrier for example. A new type of card that interacts with your opponent during their turn seems interesting to me. Considering they would be visible, they could be much stronger than current secrets for the same cost. They could also have some kind of durability, which would make them much more unique and special.
I know you are making fun of OP, but oh well, I had to say it. :P
I can agree with (1), and (3) to some extent. Discover, and value creation in hearthstone is so strong. It should be limited to 1 specific cost, and/or not a cost that can generate more value.
The trade-off has usually been; you create value but lose tempo, or momentum in some other way. But discover in combination with power-creep has virtually no caveats.
>>the power of it being secret and making people "miss play" by guessing wrong is in my view not great design
I couldn’t disagree more. Secrets add some of the most thoughtful play you will encounter in Hearthstone. Reading what your opponent does in the context of playing a secret will make you a great player. And it’s not as if there are no tech choices for removing secrets if outsmarting your opponent isn’t your bag.
1. no card can reduce its original cost below 1 2. secret cards would be visible for the opponent 3. no random generation / discover effect cards below 6 mana 4- giants can at most be reduced to 3 mana 5. tickatus changed to 8 mana
>>the power of it being secret and making people "miss play" by guessing wrong is in my view not great design
I couldn’t disagree more. Secrets add some of the most thoughtful play you will encounter in Hearthstone. Reading what your opponent does in the context of playing a secret will make you a great player. And it’s not as if there are no tech choices for removing secrets if outsmarting your opponent isn’t your bag.
you playing vs a secret mage who runs 8 different secrets, he plays a secret, which one is it?
you - oh it is counterspell secret - no it was rigged fair game and you have now wasted a resource and is behind in tempo
mage plays another secret, which one is it? you - oh maybe it is counterspell so i gotta be careful, plays a suboptimal move in order to play around it secret - no it was netherwind portal and you are now even further behind in tempo
I’ll grant you that secret mage is annoying (doubly so where they play ring toss or discover a secret), and there aren’t always tells but generally you can keep track of which ones have been played and make moves to predict or counter them. You play a minion you don’t mind getting copied or losing to explosive rune, or a spell that isn’t worth too much. If he leaves your board wide with three-health minions, it’s flame ward. I would conclude by saying secret mage, wild particularly, is the best example of why you tech secret removal.
I’ll grant you that secret mage is annoying (doubly so where they play ring toss or discover a secret), and there aren’t always tells but generally you can keep track of which ones have been played and make moves to predict or counter them. You play a minion you don’t mind getting copied or losing to explosive rune, or a spell that isn’t worth too much. If he leaves your board wide with three-health minions, it’s flame ward. I would conclude by saying secret mage, wild particularly, is the best example of why you tech secret removal.
seems to me that you say that in order to play around secret mage you need to build your deck in a specific order with disposable minions / spells aswell as specific tech vs the secrets, basically making any "big deck" unplayable and with that incentivizing aggro meta even further than it already is also you need a great amount of draw just to have the possibility to have options to play around any given situation...
secret mage is bad design yall
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1. no card can reduce its original cost below 1
2. secret cards would be visible for the opponent
3. no random generation / discover effect cards below 6 mana
4- giants can at most be reduced to 3 mana
5. tickatus changed to 8 mana
The second and fourth are completely uncalled for. If no card can be reduced below 0, then giants should abide by this rule too.
Visible secrets make them not-so-secret, so this is just your subjective complaint after losing to some secret based decks.
I do agree with the rest though. Too bad blizzard's willingness to truly balance the game is zero. They make too much money from the teenagers' parents' credit cards to remove so much highroll potential from the game.
''Secret cards would be visible for the opponent.'' Which would nullify the entire point of these cards AND their names.
I definitely agree they need to end the 0-cost mana spree of cards, it will always end up broken in one way or another.
Read up on what Iksar said about Tickatus and why they won't nerf him. He genuinely likes that it makes people feel miserable for losing 10 cards.
reason why secrets need to be visible for your opponent is because some of them are problematic and without any counter play,
I was thinking of adding weapons also (weapons damage potential should be max twice its mana cost)
the power of it being secret and making people "miss play" by guessing wrong is in my view not great design, a problem that only arrived after they started pushing the "secret type deck" that incentivizes people to add secrets to their deck based on it being a secret instead of what the secret brings to their deck type like fx freeze mage back in the days adding secrets for survival or tempo mage adding them for tempo.
a secret will still be a unique card in that it does not activate on play but rather on a specific trigger condition
Secrets that are visible for the opponent could be just a new type of card. I really think it's not a bad idea to be honest.
Can 'secrets' also be visible to those spectating? In what sense of the word would they be 'secrets' exactly?
Secrets are now removed from the game. They have been replaced with:
"Obvious trap" cards.
This will bring players back to a simpler time, when traps in dungeons were so obvious, you could see them from a room away.
"Hmm.. that glowing treasure in the middle of the next room, clearly illuminated on a pedestal to attract my attention and not make me think about the consequences of touching it is very appealing. Let us walk towards it without concern for the seemingly empty room surrounding it!"
But secrets are not always "traps", see Ice Barrier for example. A new type of card that interacts with your opponent during their turn seems interesting to me. Considering they would be visible, they could be much stronger than current secrets for the same cost. They could also have some kind of durability, which would make them much more unique and special.
I know you are making fun of OP, but oh well, I had to say it. :P
I can agree with (1), and (3) to some extent. Discover, and value creation in hearthstone is so strong. It should be limited to 1 specific cost, and/or not a cost that can generate more value.
The trade-off has usually been; you create value but lose tempo, or momentum in some other way. But discover in combination with power-creep has virtually no caveats.
One perfect example of what I'm talking about would be a reverse Sword of Justice or something like that:
"After your opponent summons a minion, give a random minion of yours +1/+1 and this loses 1 Durability."
I couldn’t disagree more. Secrets add some of the most thoughtful play you will encounter in Hearthstone. Reading what your opponent does in the context of playing a secret will make you a great player. And it’s not as if there are no tech choices for removing secrets if outsmarting your opponent isn’t your bag.
I wish we had more cards like Fatespinner and Chromatic Egg. Now there was some interesting design!
what's ur ladder lvl my friend?
you playing vs a secret mage who runs 8 different secrets, he plays a secret, which one is it?
you - oh it is counterspell
secret - no it was rigged fair game and you have now wasted a resource and is behind in tempo
mage plays another secret, which one is it?
you - oh maybe it is counterspell so i gotta be careful, plays a suboptimal move in order to play around it
secret - no it was netherwind portal and you are now even further behind in tempo
Visible secrets sounds like circular squares...
Tickatus is probably the worst designed card ever.
Yeah, there is no tier 1 deck using it (at least now), but it is terrible how one card kill entire control archetypes.
I do think it should be redesigned.
I get that many people are really stuck on the name, apply the same logic to stealth minions tho, how can they be stealth when you can see them???
They sound like some Enchantments in MTG to me. Hell, they could even be called "Enchantments" too.
I’ll grant you that secret mage is annoying (doubly so where they play ring toss or discover a secret), and there aren’t always tells but generally you can keep track of which ones have been played and make moves to predict or counter them. You play a minion you don’t mind getting copied or losing to explosive rune, or a spell that isn’t worth too much. If he leaves your board wide with three-health minions, it’s flame ward. I would conclude by saying secret mage, wild particularly, is the best example of why you tech secret removal.
seems to me that you say that in order to play around secret mage you need to build your deck in a specific order with disposable minions / spells aswell as specific tech vs the secrets, basically making any "big deck" unplayable and with that incentivizing aggro meta even further than it already is also you need a great amount of draw just to have the possibility to have options to play around any given situation...
secret mage is bad design yall