I think this change is much needed to slow down the overpowered Secret mage deck without completely killing it. a mana nerf to Kirin Tor Mage would mean the deck can't that consistently have a secret and a body going into turn 3
This deck has been OP for too long and we wild players could get some peace with it being toned down just a bit.
I mean, it is strange that a 3 mana 4/3 enables a player to make a 6 mana play on turn 3 with no conditions or challenges, but is Kirin Tor mage really the source of the problem with secret mage? Does secret mage even need a nerf? It’s totally beatable, and not a huge problem in wild.
I think this change is much needed to slow down the overpowered Secret mage deck without completely killing it. a mana nerf to Kirin Tor Mage would mean the deck can't that consistently have a secret and a body going into turn 3
This deck has been OP for too long and we wild players could get some peace with it being toned down just a bit.
Thoughts?
Learn how to play dude. I don't even use this card, he's not the core of secret mage. Try again. Legend multiple times using this deck.
I’m going to go ahead and assume this is a Wild mode problem, because the card is barely ever seen in standard?
in terms of the card itself, it is completely fine and certainly not in need of a Nerf. For the most part, the card is usually fairly underpowered in most metas. The real problem with secret Mage is the secrets. In particular, the one that deals 6 damage when a minion is played compare that to Snipe for example.
secret mage problem is not just one card. so nerfing the deck becomes really weird and they shouldnt affect a standard card. maybe the 6 mana 5/5 that gets discounted by 2 with each secret i really dont know.
can we do something about this deck? it's too prelevant in the wild meta for 4 years already. please nerf something here. a few key cards at least
Eh, as someone who likes to run jank that dies to secret mage (adding secret hate would weaken the combo to a hilarious degree), that's the game. It's dominant, it's common as muck, but something always is. Most non-jank can at least put up a fight, and I take the losses to mages on the chin because janky combo. Something will be dominant. Could probably do with being taken down a notch, but shouldn't take much; a minor nerf to kabal crystal runner would probably sort it. It can also get shredded by most decks with tech cards.
It also feels worse because combo mages were dominant before secret mage.
I'm not up for quest vargoth mage being the meta, but at least some variance in what a mage deck will be would be nice. Where's the control mage with Jaina, Highlander Mage, Galaxy mage, elemental jaina and others
I mean, they already have a solution to the problem of decks staying strong for too long, it's called standard. Wild exists so that old cards can be played, but on the flipside, a part of that means that the amazing decks stay amazing for very long. Secret Mage isn't more of a problem than any other wild deck. The problems with Secret Mage are inherent to Wild itself. It won't be fixed for wild, because the solution is playing standard.
I'm not up for quest vargoth mage being the meta, but at least some variance in what a mage deck will be would be nice. Where's the control mage with Jaina, Highlander Mage, Galaxy mage, elemental jaina and others
Same place as entire classes, I'd wager. Face hunter (where's the other hunters anyway? Remember midrange hunter?)/DHs/Shammies? Most classes will have 1-2 archetypes, so that one archetype has subsumed others isn't really an issue. It's traditionally only been lock (zoo/hand), rogue (miracle/tempo), hunter (face/midrange) and mage (freeze/tempo) that have had multiple viable decks, with pirate warrior not really overlapping with CW due to the core cards in that deck getting powercreeped. I guess Patron and CW overlapped too.
It does have to be like that, yes. Because there are people saying the same things about every deck in Wild. But the reason why Wild exists at all is precisely to use all cards, and the only way to spice that up is the nullify the purpose of wild to begin with. If you want variety, the intended venue is standard. Wild is explicitly designed to be the playground where all the cards exist simultaneously.
But does it have to be like that? Who wants lack of varience? :)
It's like complaining about politics but always electing the same officials. If something isn't mixed up, it'll always stay cancer
Because that's how metagames go. Literally, in the history of hearthstone, there's been miniscule times when classes have >2 viable decks simultaneously, and most have one at a time. Having 20 relatively balanced decks is quite an ask (particularly when blizz don't want combo to be top-tier), and that's just with two per class. Blizzard devs - IMO - aren't capable enough to balance that many decks, and that's not really an insult to them.
Problematic metagames are usually ones where formats warp heavily around one deck, usually to the extent that you see deckbuilding choices to up win rate in the meta. Prime example from MTG - Mental misstep. Heavily warped the metagame to the extent that you'd have deckslike goblins running misstep just to counter.... misstep. In HS, the Hysterical Tiller decks warped the meta, and usually focussed on beating the mirror and secret mage.
In addition, whilst Blizz do balance stuff for Wild, it's a secondary concern, and you'll not see the same attention that WotC gives to MTG's eternal formats, for example (though since I've stepped away they've gone wonky on powercreep, tbh).
No. The problem is that Secret mage lost its 2 main weaknesses: card draw and access to AOE. Nerfing Kirin Tor Mage is not the way to do it, the card was not even viable for the years!
No Kirin is fine. The problem since forever is Counterspell. That card should be just deleted. It basically shut down any board clear answers and if you dont have cheap spell or saving coin, it wins games because it will ruin whole round for you. There is no way to play around counterspell even if you know the "secret"
No Kirin is fine. The problem since forever is Counterspell. That card should be just deleted. It basically shut down any board clear answers and if you dont have cheap spell or saving coin, it wins games because it will ruin whole round for you. There is no way to play around counterspell even if you know the "secret"
Nah, you can play around CS. Cheap spells, spells you don't care too much about, that kinda thing. It's a tax and spell eater, and that's fine. There's bigger issues; a mixture of draw secrets, board clears and high tempo minions are always tough. Keeping cheap spells and knowing what you can afford to toss to it is a skill testing facet of playing against secret mage. Same with stuff like Loatheb.
When it comes to playing around secrets, the main pains for fair decks are the twin threats of mirror entity and runes; one encourages dropping something small/easily removed, the otherencourages dropping something with high HP.
Still feel like crystal runner is a lot of the issue, due to that typically being a lot of the decks' power, but there's no denying that boardwipe with secret fellow and rigged faire game have helped a lot with some of the weaknesses of the deck, which is a large part of why it's so common.
No Kirin is fine. The problem since forever is Counterspell. That card should be just deleted. It basically shut down any board clear answers and if you dont have cheap spell or saving coin, it wins games because it will ruin whole round for you. There is no way to play around counterspell even if you know the "secret"
Paladin gets a 1-mana "Counterspell" with a possibility for it even to backfire (either way). But I must admit this is the first time that I've ever heard someone complain that particular secret as being a problem. It's a nuisance, sure, and even has the chance to wreck your game plan - but it is so easily avoidable and nullifiable too that it cant really be considered something to demand is changed (or worse, removed).
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Hi people,
I think this change is much needed to slow down the overpowered Secret mage deck without completely killing it. a mana nerf to Kirin Tor Mage would mean the deck can't that consistently have a secret and a body going into turn 3
This deck has been OP for too long and we wild players could get some peace with it being toned down just a bit.
Thoughts?
It must have a secret in hand to combo, so the nerf is not necessary.
I mean, it is strange that a 3 mana 4/3 enables a player to make a 6 mana play on turn 3 with no conditions or challenges, but is Kirin Tor mage really the source of the problem with secret mage? Does secret mage even need a nerf? It’s totally beatable, and not a huge problem in wild.
Learn how to play dude. I don't even use this card, he's not the core of secret mage. Try again. Legend multiple times using this deck.
Thoughts are it's wild and wild nerfs should never effect cards that still exist in standard.
in terms of the card itself, it is completely fine and certainly not in need of a Nerf. For the most part, the card is usually fairly underpowered in most metas. The real problem with secret Mage is the secrets. In particular, the one that deals 6 damage when a minion is played compare that to Snipe for example.
secret mage problem is not just one card. so nerfing the deck becomes really weird and they shouldnt affect a standard card. maybe the 6 mana 5/5 that gets discounted by 2 with each secret i really dont know.
hey people,
can we do something about this deck? it's too prelevant in the wild meta for 4 years already. please nerf something here. a few key cards at least
Eh, as someone who likes to run jank that dies to secret mage (adding secret hate would weaken the combo to a hilarious degree), that's the game. It's dominant, it's common as muck, but something always is. Most non-jank can at least put up a fight, and I take the losses to mages on the chin because janky combo. Something will be dominant. Could probably do with being taken down a notch, but shouldn't take much; a minor nerf to kabal crystal runner would probably sort it. It can also get shredded by most decks with tech cards.
It also feels worse because combo mages were dominant before secret mage.
Hey fusili,
I'm not up for quest vargoth mage being the meta, but at least some variance in what a mage deck will be would be nice. Where's the control mage with Jaina, Highlander Mage, Galaxy mage, elemental jaina and others
I mean, they already have a solution to the problem of decks staying strong for too long, it's called standard. Wild exists so that old cards can be played, but on the flipside, a part of that means that the amazing decks stay amazing for very long. Secret Mage isn't more of a problem than any other wild deck. The problems with Secret Mage are inherent to Wild itself. It won't be fixed for wild, because the solution is playing standard.
Same place as entire classes, I'd wager. Face hunter (where's the other hunters anyway? Remember midrange hunter?)/DHs/Shammies? Most classes will have 1-2 archetypes, so that one archetype has subsumed others isn't really an issue. It's traditionally only been lock (zoo/hand), rogue (miracle/tempo), hunter (face/midrange) and mage (freeze/tempo) that have had multiple viable decks, with pirate warrior not really overlapping with CW due to the core cards in that deck getting powercreeped. I guess Patron and CW overlapped too.
Lack of variance is the way things go.
But does it have to be like that? Who wants lack of varience? :)
It's like complaining about politics but always electing the same officials. If something isn't mixed up, it'll always stay cancer
It does have to be like that, yes. Because there are people saying the same things about every deck in Wild. But the reason why Wild exists at all is precisely to use all cards, and the only way to spice that up is the nullify the purpose of wild to begin with. If you want variety, the intended venue is standard. Wild is explicitly designed to be the playground where all the cards exist simultaneously.
Because that's how metagames go. Literally, in the history of hearthstone, there's been miniscule times when classes have >2 viable decks simultaneously, and most have one at a time. Having 20 relatively balanced decks is quite an ask (particularly when blizz don't want combo to be top-tier), and that's just with two per class. Blizzard devs - IMO - aren't capable enough to balance that many decks, and that's not really an insult to them.
Problematic metagames are usually ones where formats warp heavily around one deck, usually to the extent that you see deckbuilding choices to up win rate in the meta. Prime example from MTG - Mental misstep. Heavily warped the metagame to the extent that you'd have deckslike goblins running misstep just to counter.... misstep. In HS, the Hysterical Tiller decks warped the meta, and usually focussed on beating the mirror and secret mage.
In addition, whilst Blizz do balance stuff for Wild, it's a secondary concern, and you'll not see the same attention that WotC gives to MTG's eternal formats, for example (though since I've stepped away they've gone wonky on powercreep, tbh).
No. The problem is that Secret mage lost its 2 main weaknesses: card draw and access to AOE. Nerfing Kirin Tor Mage is not the way to do it, the card was not even viable for the years!
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agree,would be a great and much needed nerf.
BUT .. blizzard gives some OP stuff to all classes,and they consider this balanced next to a 6 mana nourish for example
No Kirin is fine. The problem since forever is Counterspell. That card should be just deleted. It basically shut down any board clear answers and if you dont have cheap spell or saving coin, it wins games because it will ruin whole round for you. There is no way to play around counterspell even if you know the "secret"
Nah, you can play around CS. Cheap spells, spells you don't care too much about, that kinda thing. It's a tax and spell eater, and that's fine. There's bigger issues; a mixture of draw secrets, board clears and high tempo minions are always tough. Keeping cheap spells and knowing what you can afford to toss to it is a skill testing facet of playing against secret mage. Same with stuff like Loatheb.
When it comes to playing around secrets, the main pains for fair decks are the twin threats of mirror entity and runes; one encourages dropping something small/easily removed, the otherencourages dropping something with high HP.
Still feel like crystal runner is a lot of the issue, due to that typically being a lot of the decks' power, but there's no denying that boardwipe with secret fellow and rigged faire game have helped a lot with some of the weaknesses of the deck, which is a large part of why it's so common.
Paladin gets a 1-mana "Counterspell" with a possibility for it even to backfire (either way).
But I must admit this is the first time that I've ever heard someone complain that particular secret as being a problem.
It's a nuisance, sure, and even has the chance to wreck your game plan - but it is so easily avoidable and nullifiable too that it cant really be considered something to demand is changed (or worse, removed).