Hearthpwn

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

You are not alone in hating this meta. It is awful. And it's not just shaman. Rogue is completely out of control too. The value they can create is ridiculous. And that stupid card that creates new combo cards is an endless resource generator. Including more copies of Edwin. It's a joke, and the balance team should be ashamed of themselves.

 The poor Whirlkick Master... released in the Uldum expansion, and only now, right before rotation, finds her spot in the meta, and suddenly it's a disgraceful card.

Obviously, if this card was the problem, people would have used it back when it came out. So what is the real culprit here?

Rogue Is strong, bomb warrior is strong, control priest is strong... Lot of strong deck, but evolve shaman is fu*ked up. I don't see Rogue as a problem. Is playable against it as against any other meta decks, but not against shaman.

Quote from Pherosizm >>

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

You are not alone in hating this meta. It is awful. And it's not just shaman. Rogue is completely out of control too. The value they can create is ridiculous. And that stupid card that creates new combo cards is an endless resource generator. Including more copies of Edwin. It's a joke, and the balance team should be ashamed of themselves.

 The poor Whirlkick Master... released in the Uldum expansion, and only now, right before rotation, finds her spot in the meta, and suddenly it's a disgraceful card.

Obviously, if this card was the problem, people would have used it back when it came out. So what is the real culprit here?

 It's the same story as with all sorts of semi-random value generation from a restricted pool of cards. Last few expansions we had some very strong cards printed with the Combo keyword (and also quite cheap ones) and suddenly Whirlkick Master can consistently generate a lot of value instead of mostly high-cost junk (like the 2 5-drops).
Same thing happened in Ashes of Outland with Galakrond Priest. Galakrond was completely unplayable in Priest but then 3-sets worth of crappy Priest minions rotate out to wild, the new set brings some very strong priest minions and all of the sudden the Galakrond hero power and the invoke cards become an excellent source of value.

If only Blizzard gave us the option to ban a certain class...

Then all shaman players would only play other shamans. Game fixed.

Shaman does almost nothing its first few turns; it took some nerfs to DH aggro to allow the evolve thing to dominate. Win rates for shaman are close to 60% now? An over-costed junk card like sticky finger is in almost every deck now? If every deck has to hard-counter a certain class/deck type, it’s probably too strong. 

Right now I’m playing a Warrior deck with 2x Bloodsail Corsair, 2x Acidic Swamp Ooze and 2x Kobold Stickyfinger. 

Happy new year shaman!

DUDE....Hearthstone fucking SUCKS. It is living off of the reputation it established 5 years ago when it was a (mostly) very very very good game.  It fucking sucks now, though.  I feel sorry for anyone trying to actually play it now and never having experienced when it actually WAS fun to play.

Quote from Pr1ncipe4i20 >>

Quote from Loomineyes >>

I'm finding the game to be nearly unplayable at the moment. You've read threads like this before, I try not to write them, or to complain for complaining sake, but I'm adding my voice in regards to this dogshit meta.

Evolve shaman is everything wrong with competitive, worthwhile HS. It combines to massive effect both extreme mana cheat, and RNG. Like two months ago Guardian Druid was nerfed, not because it was too strong, but because it was an unfun play experience when it Overgrowthed into Guardian Animals. Evolve Shaman is this exact experience made even worse by being given a tutor. At least when Druid drew poorly they would be left with a heavy brick of a hand and were quickly overwhelmed. Resulting in a normalized winrate.

Not the case with Shaman. I have experienced very few games that Knuckles doesn't come down on five. And then the mana cheating begins. Huge, uncontestable boards that must be dealt with while simultaneously dealing with the weapon. Some decks fair better then others vs this, but overall it's a tyrant of a deck that is choking out many other strategies and basically wasting my collection. Honest to goodness, there are so many interesting cards and potential decks out there. 

I for one am not enjoying this helpless feeling.

 Go watch pornhub. it may relieve some frustration for you. Or just git gud, meta is good

 LOFL.  Clearly you never played the game when it was ACTUALLY good.  The game fucking sucks now and has for some time.  "Git gud" you suggest??  Get a fucking CLUE.

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

You are not alone in hating this meta. It is awful. And it's not just shaman. Rogue is completely out of control too. The value they can create is ridiculous. And that stupid card that creates new combo cards is an endless resource generator. Including more copies of Edwin. It's a joke, and the balance team should be ashamed of themselves.

 The design teams clearly wanted more fast paced, aggro based games. And it worked. Rogue can just spam out entire hands and almost instantly reload. Shaman can instantly unload cheap shit and easily hi-roll evolving minions by turns 4/5. 

They aren't ashamed of themselves. By rights they should be, but why would they have shame in something they intended on? 

At least standard does get some balancing love though. You guys feel bad? Feel bad for us poor wild players. Big/res priest builds still run rampant with out consequence and with impunity, secret mages are just evil incarnate. Embiggen aggro druids only slight "wild" inclusion is Patches but made more toxic. It's sickening. It'd be nice if the format got some love once in a while. 

Standard gets hit with nerfs a few times a year. Wild is lucky to get ONE every 2-3 YEARS. 

Quote from BravoTeam >>

Madness at the Darkmoon Faire has been a shitshow of an expansion. None of the big cool new things (the Old Gods coming back!) have made a big impact on the meta, and we've just been flooded with slightly modified Scholomance era Aggro decks. I think the most disappointing thing is it seems like Blizzard has reverted to their old "One set of balance changes halfway through an expansion cycle" philosophy, as opposed to the rapid and constant changes they've been doing for a few sets now. I really don't understand how it's not clear that Evolve Shaman is a problem that needs fixing.

Honestly, I'm sort of annoyed at how good everything about Scholomance was. If it'd been a less fun expansion I probably would've finally pulled the trigger on leaving the game, since I've not really enjoyed a meta since like... Saviors of Uldum? It seems like every time there's a long enough streak of bad expansions they drop one really good one that gets me hooked for a few more years - I was at the verge of leaving right before Un'Goro, and then that brought about the most fun meta since like... vanilla. I just wish they could consistently do things that good, instead of feeding us crap like Darkmoon Faire and Ashes of Outland most of the time.

 I feel like you do, only this time hand on heart I think they have blown it. The expansion is bad and the lack of changes to shift the meta is now just too tedious. I actually feel a sense of relief not playing everyday. These companies (like many others) use addictions against us, use all kinds of psychological tricks to keep us parting with our money. They all end up fucking it up in the end when they get too greedy and mis-read the customer base. 

The fact that the battlepass system was a fiasco, the pure and utter greed of the cost of buying packs with such poor legendary rates and even worse dust system has pushed the meta to be stale simple because people can’t afford to have a full collection. I’ve said it for years (being a whale, tho not anymore after this shit expansion) the only way to have a more creative mega for longer is if more people have access to the full collection. Of course the meta does still settle after some time but people are more willing to be creative nonetheless. 

I think the only thing now that will make me play again is if the mid expansion set ends up being free. The chances of that happening are like next to none, so I will take my custom elsewhere. I see a genuine trend happening this time though, it’s not the same as usual where people moan but still play. Streamers are haemorrhaging viewers far quicker than normal and no one ever gives a shit about the tournaments because they just gift it to already popular streamers and don’t open it up to the people grinding away to compete. It’s a giant slap in the face when you charge extreme amounts for a game and then go and give away $250,000 to people who make $20,000-$50,000 a month in some cases. 

 

Quote from Krewger >>

Quote from BravoTeam >

The fact that the battlepass system was a fiasco, the pure and utter greed of the cost of buying packs with such poor legendary rates and even worse dust system has pushed the meta to be stale simple because people can’t afford to have a full collection.

 This combined with huge F2P community is the death of the game. These players all gravitate towards the same lowcost decks making the game stale and repetitive. Blizzard should make every player contribute by making season pass obligatory. You don’t pay? You don’t play! 

More income from subscriptions would facilitate cheaper/better packs with a more diversed and interesting meta as the result.

Quote from Leifster >>

If only Blizzard gave us the option to ban a certain class...

Then all shaman players would only play other shamans. Game fixed.

 that fixes nothing and just adds more complexity to matchmaking.

Evolve Shaman is not particularly overpowered. It's only slightly ahead of other tier 1 decks in winrate and it does have weak matchups (vs aggro).

The problem is that the deck wins or loses through sheer luck. It's a casino deck and thst means one of the two players is having a bad time in every game.

Casino decks should not be tier 1.

Quote from Bengalaas >>

Evolve Shaman is not particularly overpowered. It's only slightly ahead of other tier 1 decks in winrate and it does have weak matchups (vs aggro).

The problem is that the deck wins or loses through sheer luck. It's a casino deck and thst means one of the two players is having a bad time in every game.

Casino decks should not be tier 1.

One. It has one bad matchup.

Don't play much Standard, my only exposure to it is through content creators and occasionally being here.

On a per-card basis, Evolve Shaman is already looking to be totally crushed by rotation, losing several Uldum cards that make its plays work.  Not only that, but depending on what cards are included in the upcoming mini-set, it could get worse by having weaker matchups against new cards, as well as having worse rolls into new cards.  I do think it should be nerfed, so that the community can be angry about something else, but I'm not sure how.  I'd be interested in seeing them pursue changes that aren't strictly mana-cost related, like actual words on the card maybe, but ever since Warsong Commander completely embarrassed them they've been hesitant to do that.

Rogue is only strong because Swindle and Foxy Fraud exist.  Whirlkick Master would have remained irrelevant until its rotation if these cards weren't made, so I suspect the cards to change would be them.  Swindle should cost more, and Foxy Fraud should discount less.  Maybe one of those, maybe both.  If only one change I'd point it to Swindle, because it synergizes stronger with Whirlkick.

Not really aware of any other relevant, hated decks atm other than them.  I hope changes come soon so people can relax a bit, and when another deck becomes the best deck in the meta people will complain about that.  But if it's a control deck, they won't be so mad, so I'm rooting for ETC Warrior.  Odds are it'll be Warlock if that happens though, Tickatus being the absolute BEAST that he is.

Don't feel bad about complaining.  Everybody gets grouchy about things, especially when something you like or care about starts being kinda shit.

Quote from MoonUnit >>

 

One. It has one bad matchup.

 Change the setting from "all ranks". The higher you go, the less green it is.

Quote from Bengalaas >>

Quote from MoonUnit >>

 

One. It has one bad matchup.

 Change the setting from "all ranks". The higher you go, the less green it is.

Regardless of the rank bracket you highlight, it has just one matchup that’s bad (40/60). It has a few coin flips, but every other matchup at Legend is over 55% with the majority being over 60%. You can’t have a deck running around with a 55% average win rate at the highest level of ladder that can only be targeted by one tier 3 deck, especially when said tier 3 deck is 35% against the other dominant class.