Don't celebrate too early, "revamping" usually means removing power from the rotation-immune part of our collections.
Perhaps that is exactly what some people are hoping for. Either way, you are probably right that one shouldn't be too optimistic about a "rebalancing" .
Looking at more recent additions like Righteousness, Radiance or Arcane Devourer, it sure doesn't look like the Core sets are even supposed to have more than a symbolic function in the game. Almost all additions to the Classic and Basic set since the HoF introduction were weak, if not unplayable cards. The new Priest cards were not terrible on paper, but haven't changed or affected the Class playstyle at all, perhaps as intended.
Considering that we will have bigger expansions moving forward, and I wouldn't be surprised if it won't end there, I also can't imagine them having any interest in a decent Basic and Classic set, if they put so much more effort into more new cards.
I still hope that they will reconsider some of their completely failed designs and nerfs, but I think it's more realistic that we'll see the few remaining good cards like Kill Command, Shield Slam, Shadowstep etc. removed in favor of, at best, situationally decent cards.
Don't celebrate too early, "revamping" usually means removing power from the rotation-immune part of our collections.
I won't mind if they'll remove Edwin from my collection and even give me 1600 dust for that...
The recent round of changes for Priest was nice. I won't mind seeing the same for Druid or Warrior
Im VERY concerned if the priest rework is to be any indication of what is to come. They turned the class into a "random bullshit GO!" simulator, when the combo aspect was easily the most fun and skill intensive part of priest. I have not touched the class since and will not do so ever again, rly hope the guy behind that horrible rework doesnt get his hands on any other classes'.
Almost all additions to the Classic and Basic set since the HoF introduction were weak, if not unplayable cards.
Exactly! And this widened the power gap between the weak and strong classes even more. For example Brawl and Shield Slam are still one of the strongest removals in the game, even compared to cards from recent expansions, designed with 6 years of ongoing power creep in mind. In comparison, Warlock's or Priest's basic sets are downright pathetic and they have to rely entirely on expansions. I don't understand why Blizzard weakens some classes with unplayable cards in their basic sets, but leaves others alone. It makes no sense.
Don't celebrate too early, "revamping" usually means removing power from the rotation-immune part of our collections.
I won't mind if they'll remove Edwin from my collection and even give me 1600 dust for that...
The recent round of changes for Priest was nice. I won't mind seeing the same for Druid or Warrior
Im VERY concerned if the priest rework is to be any indication of what is to come. They turned the class into a "random bullshit GO!" simulator, when the combo aspect was easily the most fun and skill intensive part of priest. I have not touched the class since and will not do so ever again, rly hope the guy behind that horrible rework doesnt get his hands on any other classes'.
What are you talking about?
Basic and classic priest changes included two things that can be called "random bullshit" are limited to Psychic Conjurer and buff to Thoughtsteal
Other changes\new cards are either for control tools or buffing minions.
Don't celebrate too early, "revamping" usually means removing power from the rotation-immune part of our collections.
I won't mind if they'll remove Edwin from my collection and even give me 1600 dust for that...
The recent round of changes for Priest was nice. I won't mind seeing the same for Druid or Warrior
Im VERY concerned if the priest rework is to be any indication of what is to come. They turned the class into a "random bullshit GO!" simulator, when the combo aspect was easily the most fun and skill intensive part of priest. I have not touched the class since and will not do so ever again, rly hope the guy behind that horrible rework doesnt get his hands on any other classes'.
What are you talking about?
Basic and classic priest changes included two things that can be called "random bullshit" are limited to Psychic Conjurer and buff to Thoughtsteal
Other changes\new cards are either for control tools or buffing minions.
Its not about what they added, its what they got rid of. Prophet Velen, Mind Blast, Holy Fire, Holy Smite.. priest cant play combo anymore, and i'd be fine with that if they gave priest another gameplan to compensate but they didnt, its just reactive, boring value generation control, thats all priest boils down no matter what list you choose, which is the most boring design choice ever. What if all the other classes get the same treatment and are left with only one kind of gameplan/strategy? The game dies on the spot.
Don't celebrate too early, "revamping" usually means removing power from the rotation-immune part of our collections.
I won't mind if they'll remove Edwin from my collection and even give me 1600 dust for that...
The recent round of changes for Priest was nice. I won't mind seeing the same for Druid or Warrior
Im VERY concerned if the priest rework is to be any indication of what is to come. They turned the class into a "random bullshit GO!" simulator, when the combo aspect was easily the most fun and skill intensive part of priest. I have not touched the class since and will not do so ever again, rly hope the guy behind that horrible rework doesnt get his hands on any other classes'.
What are you talking about?
Basic and classic priest changes included two things that can be called "random bullshit" are limited to Psychic Conjurer and buff to Thoughtsteal
Other changes\new cards are either for control tools or buffing minions.
Its not about what they added, its what they got rid of. Prophet Velen, Mind Blast, Holy Fire, Holy Smite.. priest cant play combo anymore, and i'd be fine with that if they gave priest another gameplan to compensate but they didnt, its just reactive, boring value generation control, thats all priest boils down no matter what list you choose, which is the most boring design choice ever. What if all the other classes get the same treatment and are left with only one kind of gameplan/strategy? The game dies on the spot.
Both Velen and Mind Blast had been HoF'ed before the revamp. Revamping =/= HoFing.
Don't celebrate too early, "revamping" usually means removing power from the rotation-immune part of our collections.
I won't mind if they'll remove Edwin from my collection and even give me 1600 dust for that...
The recent round of changes for Priest was nice. I won't mind seeing the same for Druid or Warrior
Im VERY concerned if the priest rework is to be any indication of what is to come. They turned the class into a "random bullshit GO!" simulator, when the combo aspect was easily the most fun and skill intensive part of priest. I have not touched the class since and will not do so ever again, rly hope the guy behind that horrible rework doesnt get his hands on any other classes'.
What are you talking about?
Basic and classic priest changes included two things that can be called "random bullshit" are limited to Psychic Conjurer and buff to Thoughtsteal
Other changes\new cards are either for control tools or buffing minions.
Its not about what they added, its what they got rid of. Prophet Velen, Mind Blast, Holy Fire, Holy Smite.. priest cant play combo anymore, and i'd be fine with that if they gave priest another gameplan to compensate but they didnt, its just reactive, boring value generation control, thats all priest boils down no matter what list you choose, which is the most boring design choice ever. What if all the other classes get the same treatment and are left with only one kind of gameplan/strategy? The game dies on the spot.
Both Velen and Mind Blast had been HoF'ed before the revamp. Revamping =/= HoFing.
Velen hadn't. That would mean that Priest wouldn't have had a legendary card.
But they took away Priest's direct fact damage, because a class with that much healing and removal also having powerful combos made the class extremely one-note. Which... wasn't good. The priest basic/classic set in theory is good. All the new cards were AT LEAST average in power level (and average is what you want for the basic set, if not the classic set). In fact it's probably the most average pool overall and a good example for the others.
I think they should probably get rid of Thoughtsteal because it is by far the best card in the priest basic/classic set and totally does encourage this idea that priest's identity is stealing their opponent's deck, which I don't think is a good identity for priest. Rather than what it actually is -- generating resources to outvalue the opponent and take board control with big threats. I think the bigger problem is, other control decks (particularly warrior) have so many ways to clear the board reliably that it doesn't matter.
There's a lot of REALLY badly designed cards in the classic and basic set. Especially for a set that should keep things relatively simple. Unleash the Hounds is obviously designed as a pseudo-board clear, but it isn't. Stuff like that can be fixed.
I dont know. I have been 'working' on a complete classic collection for years. It would be a shame to me to see that goal removed with a revamp.
For instance, i just opened Nat Pagel the other day and was excited. Not because ill ever play the card, but because it brings me one step closer to completing my collection.
Every time they HoF a card and replace it with a new one it just pushes back my timeline.
Every time they HoF a card you get the full dust value of that card as a refund AND you get to keep the card. So with that dust you could simply craft the new legendary added to the classic set. You will even end up with extra dust if you also decide to disenchant the card that is now in the HoF. It definitely doesn't push back your timeline
Don't celebrate too early, "revamping" usually means removing power from the rotation-immune part of our collections.
I won't mind if they'll remove Edwin from my collection and even give me 1600 dust for that...
The recent round of changes for Priest was nice. I won't mind seeing the same for Druid or Warrior
Im VERY concerned if the priest rework is to be any indication of what is to come. They turned the class into a "random bullshit GO!" simulator, when the combo aspect was easily the most fun and skill intensive part of priest. I have not touched the class since and will not do so ever again, rly hope the guy behind that horrible rework doesnt get his hands on any other classes'.
What are you talking about?
Basic and classic priest changes included two things that can be called "random bullshit" are limited to Psychic Conjurer and buff to Thoughtsteal
Other changes\new cards are either for control tools or buffing minions.
Its not about what they added, its what they got rid of. Prophet Velen, Mind Blast, Holy Fire, Holy Smite.. priest cant play combo anymore, and i'd be fine with that if they gave priest another gameplan to compensate but they didnt, its just reactive, boring value generation control, thats all priest boils down no matter what list you choose, which is the most boring design choice ever. What if all the other classes get the same treatment and are left with only one kind of gameplan/strategy? The game dies on the spot.
I feel like part of what makes each class kind of stuck into a certain archetype/playstyle is their hero power.
I know some of them are pretty bonkers right now, but look at duels. You can choose a hero power when you start, and this majorly affects how you are going to build your deck and your playstyle.
I'd really like to see something like this applicable to the standard game. Choose from 1 of 3 hero powers (still unique to each class) when you build your deck, vastly expanding on your options during a game.
Perhaps a difficult thing to balance and would probably never happen, but I really think it would open up new avenues for different styles for each class with the existing set of cards.
Hey guys I wanted to ask, I have few unopened classic set packs, should I open them now or wait? Sorry if I ask stupid question but I haven't been paying attention to this classic revamp thing.
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"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
Hey guys I wanted to ask, I have few unopened classic set packs, should I open them now or wait? Sorry if I ask stupid question but I haven't been paying attention to this classic revamp thing.
To my knowledge there has been no news yet and no one knows what is happening with the classic set revamp yet (apart from Blizz).
Hey guys I wanted to ask, I have few unopened classic set packs, should I open them now or wait? Sorry if I ask stupid question but I haven't been paying attention to this classic revamp thing.
To my knowledge there has been no news yet and no one knows what is happening with the classic set revamp yet (apart from Blizz).
A few things have been said, but it's still far from clear what will become of the Classic set and if saving packs is even worth it.
To give a brief overview:
- Edwin VanCleef WILL get unnerfed when the next expansion launches, BUT the devs have said explicitly, that there will be no more Hall of Fame set, and implicitly said, that there's no point in crafting/hoarding it for compensation.
- The above had me believe that Classic would rotate entirely, but Dean Ayala has recently said that some cards will be changed, and that some old cards will have a comeback. But no specifics, only that Barnes and Naga Sea Witch would not be be among them.
That's about it. Unfortunately, it's pure speculation what that actually means for Classic and for packs. I have a few scenarios in mind:
- Maybe we'll just see some cards changed, some cards removed and others added, and they only rename Hall of Fame and drop the compensation bit. But if old cards are added, it could either mean that you can use the cards you already have, or that they are reprinted and you need to get the Standard version through packs or crafting again.
- Another option would be that Classic will indeed rotate entirely, but we instead get a placeholder set that consists of a select few old cards and changes periodically, much like the Hollow's End Event in 2019. Back then, you got those cards temporarily added to your collection for free. Could also mean that they'll be added to an expanded Basic set that you don't need packs for.
- Yet another possibility is that Classic will be split up, with one part moving to Wild, and the other starting as a new "Modern" set introduced to Standard, In which case, there'd probably be a new type of packs.
I'm personally sitting on 45 Classic packs myself, just to be safe, although I'm still a good number of legendaries (like 15) away from actually having the set complete. With Edwin disappearing, there needs to be a new Rogue legendary, but the scenarios I just mentioned could also result in an entirely new set where you need new packs anyway, or Edwin getting replaced in Standard by an old Rogue legendary, or everyone getting the new one for free.
To be clear, we'll probably get news when they announce the new year at Blizzcon on the 19th. My assumption is they'll start doing rotations for the classic and basic set the same way the other sets rotate. Some cards will come back, some cards will rotate.
I will say that the "revamp" or whatever has been soft-confirmed on a twitter AMA with Iksar, where somebody asked him to tease what the changes were and he said "Some old cards coming in, some new cards coming in, and some old cards changing" or something like that. So a change is coming, but the details are light. We'll probably learn more "at" Blizzcon next week. I won't link the whole twitter thread but here is the specific question that he answered.
How about they pick a strong identity for each class and just go with it?
Rogue: Obviously Miracle. Give them Oil. Rogue players love playing Miracle, don't they? Make Auctioneer a class card.
Shaman: Who knows? Totems I guess. They can have that 1/2 punch they had for shamanstone back. Trogg and totem golem.
Warrior: Gotta be control. Dr. Boom Mad Genius needs to be evergreen. Heck, put that nice 5 mana healing mech here.
Hunter: I just hate Hunter in general. But give them undertaker, unnerfed and deal with it.
Paladin: Call to Arms. Quartermaster. Muster for Battle.
Priest: Dragons, dragons, dragons. Duskbreaker especially. Maybe Dr. 5.
Mage: Combo time. Give them ways to play exodia mage.
Druid: Ya'll hate me, but, I liked Jade Druid. I say give em the whole package. Jade forever!
Warlock: Only lock deck I ever liked was Cube. Give em cube, and that 3/9 taunt that never went away.
Demonhunter: Give em whatever you like as long as it isn't that stupid skull card.
Neutral: Dirty Rat. unnerfed Albatross. Tar Creeper. Dr. Boom. Lich King.
They're going to be given a much simpler class identity than this. Nothing as specific as jade druid. The core set is going to change every year, though. S9 maybe some form of jade druid will return. Probably in a less degenerative form, though.
How about they pick a strong identity for each class and just go with it?
Rogue: Obviously Miracle. Give them Oil. Rogue players love playing Miracle, don't they? Make Auctioneer a class card.
Shaman: Who knows? Totems I guess. They can have that 1/2 punch they had for shamanstone back. Trogg and totem golem.
Warrior: Gotta be control. Dr. Boom Mad Genius needs to be evergreen. Heck, put that nice 5 mana healing mech here.
Hunter: I just hate Hunter in general. But give them undertaker, unnerfed and deal with it.
Paladin: Call to Arms. Quartermaster. Muster for Battle.
Priest: Dragons, dragons, dragons. Duskbreaker especially. Maybe Dr. 5.
Mage: Combo time. Give them ways to play exodia mage.
Druid: Ya'll hate me, but, I liked Jade Druid. I say give em the whole package. Jade forever!
Warlock: Only lock deck I ever liked was Cube. Give em cube, and that 3/9 taunt that never went away.
Demonhunter: Give em whatever you like as long as it isn't that stupid skull card.
Neutral: Dirty Rat. unnerfed Albatross. Tar Creeper. Dr. Boom. Lich King.
Pigeon holing every class into a single playstyle/strategy is the worst thing they could do, you dont want that, ever.
HS is at its best when most classes have two or more different gameplans, not knowing exactly what your opponent is playing makes the mulligan much harder, and the game much more interesting.
All it took to get me excited for the classic rework was Shadowform coming back to Priest, this is HUGE. It shows Team 5 learned that in order to make the game more fun, they have to give the player OPTIONS. Giving all classes a way to change their heropower is a must imo, that alone would make HS feel like a completely different game.
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Opening Book of Heroes packs before Release date is a bad idea, Ya sounds about right.
Perhaps that is exactly what some people are hoping for. Either way, you are probably right that one shouldn't be too optimistic about a "rebalancing" .
Looking at more recent additions like Righteousness, Radiance or Arcane Devourer, it sure doesn't look like the Core sets are even supposed to have more than a symbolic function in the game. Almost all additions to the Classic and Basic set since the HoF introduction were weak, if not unplayable cards. The new Priest cards were not terrible on paper, but haven't changed or affected the Class playstyle at all, perhaps as intended.
Considering that we will have bigger expansions moving forward, and I wouldn't be surprised if it won't end there, I also can't imagine them having any interest in a decent Basic and Classic set, if they put so much more effort into more new cards.
I still hope that they will reconsider some of their completely failed designs and nerfs, but I think it's more realistic that we'll see the few remaining good cards like Kill Command, Shield Slam, Shadowstep etc. removed in favor of, at best, situationally decent cards.
I won't mind if they'll remove Edwin from my collection and even give me 1600 dust for that...
The recent round of changes for Priest was nice. I won't mind seeing the same for Druid or Warrior
Im VERY concerned if the priest rework is to be any indication of what is to come. They turned the class into a "random bullshit GO!" simulator, when the combo aspect was easily the most fun and skill intensive part of priest. I have not touched the class since and will not do so ever again, rly hope the guy behind that horrible rework doesnt get his hands on any other classes'.
Exactly! And this widened the power gap between the weak and strong classes even more. For example Brawl and Shield Slam are still one of the strongest removals in the game, even compared to cards from recent expansions, designed with 6 years of ongoing power creep in mind. In comparison, Warlock's or Priest's basic sets are downright pathetic and they have to rely entirely on expansions. I don't understand why Blizzard weakens some classes with unplayable cards in their basic sets, but leaves others alone. It makes no sense.
What are you talking about?
Basic and classic priest changes included two things that can be called "random bullshit" are limited to Psychic Conjurer and buff to Thoughtsteal
Other changes\new cards are either for control tools or buffing minions.
Its not about what they added, its what they got rid of. Prophet Velen, Mind Blast, Holy Fire, Holy Smite.. priest cant play combo anymore, and i'd be fine with that if they gave priest another gameplan to compensate but they didnt, its just reactive, boring value generation control, thats all priest boils down no matter what list you choose, which is the most boring design choice ever. What if all the other classes get the same treatment and are left with only one kind of gameplan/strategy? The game dies on the spot.
Both Velen and Mind Blast had been HoF'ed before the revamp. Revamping =/= HoFing.
Velen hadn't. That would mean that Priest wouldn't have had a legendary card.
But they took away Priest's direct fact damage, because a class with that much healing and removal also having powerful combos made the class extremely one-note. Which... wasn't good. The priest basic/classic set in theory is good. All the new cards were AT LEAST average in power level (and average is what you want for the basic set, if not the classic set). In fact it's probably the most average pool overall and a good example for the others.
I think they should probably get rid of Thoughtsteal because it is by far the best card in the priest basic/classic set and totally does encourage this idea that priest's identity is stealing their opponent's deck, which I don't think is a good identity for priest. Rather than what it actually is -- generating resources to outvalue the opponent and take board control with big threats. I think the bigger problem is, other control decks (particularly warrior) have so many ways to clear the board reliably that it doesn't matter.
There's a lot of REALLY badly designed cards in the classic and basic set. Especially for a set that should keep things relatively simple. Unleash the Hounds is obviously designed as a pseudo-board clear, but it isn't. Stuff like that can be fixed.
I dont know. I have been 'working' on a complete classic collection for years. It would be a shame to me to see that goal removed with a revamp.
For instance, i just opened Nat Pagel the other day and was excited. Not because ill ever play the card, but because it brings me one step closer to completing my collection.
Every time they HoF a card and replace it with a new one it just pushes back my timeline.
Galavant Animation
Every time they HoF a card you get the full dust value of that card as a refund AND you get to keep the card. So with that dust you could simply craft the new legendary added to the classic set. You will even end up with extra dust if you also decide to disenchant the card that is now in the HoF. It definitely doesn't push back your timeline
I feel like part of what makes each class kind of stuck into a certain archetype/playstyle is their hero power.
I know some of them are pretty bonkers right now, but look at duels. You can choose a hero power when you start, and this majorly affects how you are going to build your deck and your playstyle.
I'd really like to see something like this applicable to the standard game. Choose from 1 of 3 hero powers (still unique to each class) when you build your deck, vastly expanding on your options during a game.
Perhaps a difficult thing to balance and would probably never happen, but I really think it would open up new avenues for different styles for each class with the existing set of cards.
Hey guys I wanted to ask, I have few unopened classic set packs, should I open them now or wait? Sorry if I ask stupid question but I haven't been paying attention to this classic revamp thing.
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
To my knowledge there has been no news yet and no one knows what is happening with the classic set revamp yet (apart from Blizz).
A few things have been said, but it's still far from clear what will become of the Classic set and if saving packs is even worth it.
To give a brief overview:
- Edwin VanCleef WILL get unnerfed when the next expansion launches, BUT the devs have said explicitly, that there will be no more Hall of Fame set, and implicitly said, that there's no point in crafting/hoarding it for compensation.
- The above had me believe that Classic would rotate entirely, but Dean Ayala has recently said that some cards will be changed, and that some old cards will have a comeback. But no specifics, only that Barnes and Naga Sea Witch would not be be among them.
That's about it. Unfortunately, it's pure speculation what that actually means for Classic and for packs. I have a few scenarios in mind:
- Maybe we'll just see some cards changed, some cards removed and others added, and they only rename Hall of Fame and drop the compensation bit. But if old cards are added, it could either mean that you can use the cards you already have, or that they are reprinted and you need to get the Standard version through packs or crafting again.
- Another option would be that Classic will indeed rotate entirely, but we instead get a placeholder set that consists of a select few old cards and changes periodically, much like the Hollow's End Event in 2019. Back then, you got those cards temporarily added to your collection for free. Could also mean that they'll be added to an expanded Basic set that you don't need packs for.
- Yet another possibility is that Classic will be split up, with one part moving to Wild, and the other starting as a new "Modern" set introduced to Standard, In which case, there'd probably be a new type of packs.
I'm personally sitting on 45 Classic packs myself, just to be safe, although I'm still a good number of legendaries (like 15) away from actually having the set complete. With Edwin disappearing, there needs to be a new Rogue legendary, but the scenarios I just mentioned could also result in an entirely new set where you need new packs anyway, or Edwin getting replaced in Standard by an old Rogue legendary, or everyone getting the new one for free.
To be clear, we'll probably get news when they announce the new year at Blizzcon on the 19th. My assumption is they'll start doing rotations for the classic and basic set the same way the other sets rotate. Some cards will come back, some cards will rotate.
I think it'll be pretty simple to be honest.
I will say that the "revamp" or whatever has been soft-confirmed on a twitter AMA with Iksar, where somebody asked him to tease what the changes were and he said "Some old cards coming in, some new cards coming in, and some old cards changing" or something like that. So a change is coming, but the details are light. We'll probably learn more "at" Blizzcon next week. I won't link the whole twitter thread but here is the specific question that he answered.
please don't bully my son
How about they pick a strong identity for each class and just go with it?
Rogue: Obviously Miracle. Give them Oil. Rogue players love playing Miracle, don't they? Make Auctioneer a class card.
Shaman: Who knows? Totems I guess. They can have that 1/2 punch they had for shamanstone back. Trogg and totem golem.
Warrior: Gotta be control. Dr. Boom Mad Genius needs to be evergreen. Heck, put that nice 5 mana healing mech here.
Hunter: I just hate Hunter in general. But give them undertaker, unnerfed and deal with it.
Paladin: Call to Arms. Quartermaster. Muster for Battle.
Priest: Dragons, dragons, dragons. Duskbreaker especially. Maybe Dr. 5.
Mage: Combo time. Give them ways to play exodia mage.
Druid: Ya'll hate me, but, I liked Jade Druid. I say give em the whole package. Jade forever!
Warlock: Only lock deck I ever liked was Cube. Give em cube, and that 3/9 taunt that never went away.
Demonhunter: Give em whatever you like as long as it isn't that stupid skull card.
Neutral: Dirty Rat. unnerfed Albatross. Tar Creeper. Dr. Boom. Lich King.
Galavant Animation
They're going to be given a much simpler class identity than this. Nothing as specific as jade druid. The core set is going to change every year, though. S9 maybe some form of jade druid will return. Probably in a less degenerative form, though.
Pigeon holing every class into a single playstyle/strategy is the worst thing they could do, you dont want that, ever.
HS is at its best when most classes have two or more different gameplans, not knowing exactly what your opponent is playing makes the mulligan much harder, and the game much more interesting.
All it took to get me excited for the classic rework was Shadowform coming back to Priest, this is HUGE. It shows Team 5 learned that in order to make the game more fun, they have to give the player OPTIONS. Giving all classes a way to change their heropower is a must imo, that alone would make HS feel like a completely different game.