Hearthpwn

Quote from adityajibhkate >>

Wait... What is a CONTROL deck???

 A deck that reliably beats aggro and loses to combo.

Quote from Gatormatthew_ >>

This thread is really odd to me. Control Warrior is currently a Tier 1 deck, I don't understand the idea behind "control being dead." 

 I agree somewhat. There’s also a really good control shaman deck that some dude just got legend with. I tried it and it’s pretty consistent. However, it’s not the aggro that bothers me per se, but the fact that the type of aggro deck we are seeing are basically the same for so many years now and it’s tedious (aside from DH because of it being relatively new). 

Aggro will always be relevant it’s true but I really hate when you try playing around with cool fun decks in casual and there are knobs playing face Hunter or aggro DH...I don’t think anything grinds my shit more than queuing into Hunter with always the perfect curve and that stupid beast that summons a secret. I am a bad loser as it is, my nerves can’t take it 😂

I feel like aggro decks right now are too good, they've become so efficient across the board and the anti-aggro tools have not kept up with the power creeps, so it can be really tough to handle the insane early board states or the utterly ridiculous amount of burn the soul fragment DH deck can put out.

I think that Blade Dance is a really broken card right now, it makes it so hard to get a decent board when DH's can easily deal 8+ damage to 3 minions and also push the same damage to face. 

Quote from SuperAga >>

I feel like aggro decks right now are too good, they've become so efficient across the board and the anti-aggro tools have not kept up with the power creeps, so it can be really tough to handle the insane early board states or the utterly ridiculous amount of burn the soul fragment DH deck can put out.

I think that Blade Dance is a really broken card right now, it makes it so hard to get a decent board when DH's can easily deal 8+ damage to 3 minions and also push the same damage to face. 

 This is true. Priest need a better mid range clearance spell. Doing 2 damage to minions as AEO most of the time isn’t enough. It needs to be at least 3. 

I also would like to see better tech cards against secrets since there are so many secrets around now and literally 1 crap tech card against it in standard. 

Blade Dance needs to be changed to something along the lines of:

”when your hero attacks an enemy this turn, deal the same damage to it’s neighbours”.

that card is otherwise doing exactly what Demon Hunter is supposed to be bad at by class design: tall minion removal, with no repercussion.

Quote from Gatormatthew_ >>

The main thing to say is that Hearthstone has changed as a game. Decks are more powerful. Even aggro decks aren't really what they used to be. There is currently Aggro DH, which is the aggro's side of control warrior. You have Highlander hunter, which has more endgame than a normal aggro deck, but still a standard aggro deck. Then things like Doomhammer shaman are just Tempo Mage style decks, not traditional aggro.

I will admit, so far it seems like Warrior is the only class that houses a strong control deck. It has two of them, Bomb and Control. Control Warrior is in fact a tier 1 deck, and I'm not sure why you think you have the credibility to deny that fact. Bomb Warrior, I will also admit, isn't really a "true" control deck, similar to Doomhammer shaman not being a true aggro deck.

The main finger to point at here is that Warrior has essentially monopolized the control market. Brawl is a card which has pushed Warrior control decks since the start of time. However, decks in the current meta are just too powerful for weaker control decks. What can priest do against Evolve Shaman (no, evolve shaman is not an aggro deck, it is by definition a midrange deck). Priest has their AoE at 7 mana, brawl can stop it, soul mirror cannot. 

Now, the claim of control being dead is just not true. There are meta shifts where certain playstyles become null. Last expac decks like Control Shaman, Priest, and Warrior were all perfectly good and viable. If there is one expansion cycle where there is only 1 control deck (keep in mind, that control deck is one of, if not the best deck in the game), that does not mean the archetype is dead. It got bad support. Next expac (or even during the mini expac), it will be back.

This. Control Warrior with ETC OTK combo is probably the best deck in the current meta. It does seem like the only viable control deck currently. Tired of losing to aggro? Give this deck a try.

Don't want to play a grindy control game? Try enrage warrior. Skipper/Armorsmith tools can keep you alive. The addition of that 2/5 pirate that equips a fiery war axe make this deck a pretty dope midrange option. The deck isn't any easy pilot, but really satisfying with practice. I love queueing into DH (aggro or soul) and hunters with this deck. 

I hate smorc based decks as much as the next person. There are viable decks that beat them. They happen to both be warrior decks.

Hogwash. People have been saying this since HS was in beta and the discussion has never ever stopped. Every single expansion has been similar, it starts with an influx of aggro and slowly tapers into a more rounded meta. The exceptions to this would be if something was outright broken preventing the meta from correcting itself (such as HunterTaker or AoO DH) in which case card nerfs had to happen. Aggro is no better in DMF than it was in other expansion release. Soul DH is the top deck to be sure, but I think it's disingenuous to call it an aggro deck, when it's actually a combo deck comprised with 70% being healing and removal similar to Bomb Warrior but just better in every way. I agree with many that Soul DH is too good and should be nerfed, but in fact my biggest grip with it isn't even the face dmg, it's actually the insane healing, silence and AoE combined which prevents you from punishing a deck like that in the way that you normally would.

So right now ctrl decks are able to beat aggro, the problem is they lose to mid-range tempo decks. For example, if you try a true healing/fatigue deck such as Healing Shaman or Res Priest, you'll quickly find that it's VERY hard to lose to any aggro matchup. Your losses tend to be from things like Pure Paladin, HL Hunter, Ramp Druid and Casino Mage having a powerful turn every turn from 4-8, with each turn getting progressively more difficult to answer. They also lose to wide board token decks like Zoolock, Murloc Pally and Token Druid but I feel it should be said that wide board decks equally pray upon aggro decks that try to win via face dmg and so the circle continues. When people say aggro beats ctrl, that's a lie. Aggro would only beat ctrl if you're running a ctrl deck that hardly runs anything defensive. You can't build a deck of greedy big value + some removal and get mad when someone drops bombs on your face uncontested. The anti-aggro cards have always been there, but people don't wanna run them because they aren't valuable vs other ctrl decks and that's the truth. You look at the popular ctrl deck list and it's like this thing called taunt and heal doesn't exist... If you run a lot of taunts and heals, you win vs aggro but you have to except the losses when you run out of steam vs the greedy stuff. That's meta teching, that's the game we play, it doesn't mean aggro is too good.

Like some others already said: Control doesnt‘t exist in standard BUT in wild it very well does. Im also someone who doesnt like aggro decks so im playing my own control creations and since i have all the tools in wild, i only play that game mode.

And since priest has so many tools to deal with aggro boards, i feel so satisfied if an aggro player dumps his shit on the board over and over and i wipe it without any effort. The sweet concede of him makes my day everytime xD

I understand the pessimism, but all of the YouTubers and Streamers I've seen have been playing Midrange/Controlling decks and seeing success with them.  It's easy to forget that you're a single person who experiences things from a single perspective, when there's "100 Million" (So I'd say maybe closer to 50 Million who log in and play daily, probably less) players in Hearthstone since 2018.  There's simply too many people for a single person's experiences in this game to really elaborate on the shape of the meta.  Heck, don't different regions have different metas too?

Every expansion has a meta cycle contained within it, like somebody already said, in the beginning aggro decks prosper because people haven't streamlined their slower decks to respond to what's needed yet.  Later on in the expansion, the more late game decks can do well.  Even now Control/ETC Warrior is doing extremely well, as Warrior has a lot of efficient anti-aggro.  Priest still has "Greetings fellow humans" and infinite ways to revive it, so bad start aggro and midrange still have that to contend with.  Mage has Flame Ward and draws it as reliably as Huffer gets summoned off of Animal Companion, along with efficient Discover and resource generation to slow down aggro matchups.  Or hell, go aggro itself because it's Mage.  Shaman has plenty of killer anti-aggro tools, so does Warlock, and Paladin.

It's just a matter of patience.  I'm personally cool with whatever, I play Wild anyway and consider all forms of gameplay valid, aggro, control, and combo.  Aggro is important because it's inexpensive to make aggro decks, and people with less time to play can use aggro to enjoy Hearthstone with what time they have.  Combo and Control decks tend to be rather expensive and time consuming to play, so people with better luck/more money and more time can enjoy those.  It's all a balance, and all a part of what makes card games what they are.  And if you're especially worried, taking a break and waiting for the rotation couldn't hurt, since many classes (barring DH who's still only 1 year old) will lose a lot of their power cards, and things will generally even out.  Heck, maybe I'll play Standard again once Hunter has more viable decks beyond the 2 it's had for 2 straight years!

Long post short, control isn't going anywhere it hasn't gone before.  K&K was my fav expansion season as well, and I'm sure eventually we'll see a return to that format.  In the meantime, it's always possible to make due with what you have and play the way you want to.  And if not, you can take a break!  It's really good for mental health, I take breaks from Hearthstone constantly.

I mean, OP left out seemingly the most powerful deck in the meta, ETC warrior, which is a very unique combination of combo and control.  Well, I suppose more accurately it can be played as either from game to game, though you better have a good idea of which style you're playing by turn 3 or so.

It is very difficult to play, which is why its win rate across the player base will be depressed, but I haven't found much that is a clear favorable matchup against ETC, with the possible exception of Tickatus Lock.

I don't want anyone to cry me a river, but, I don't have risky skipper.  So, I can't play control warrior.

Usually control is king in the last expansion of the year. Not so much this time.

Im only silver 4 right now, but I only really encounter ressurect priest, spell mage and pure paladin - non of which I would classify as aggro. But maybe it is more aggro heavy in higher ranks.

I like playing control warrior with all 4 old gods, I believe I have a decent winrate with it. We need something like antique healbot to bring control back. 

Mistress of mixtures is ur answer sir.