I see a lot of people talking about how they struggle with demon hunter and as a seasoned control and combo player who don't struggle I just wanna give the community of demon hunter oppressed souls an understanding of what it takes to play control and beat demon hunter damn near every time.
An huge part of what makes demon hunter so strong is not only their high damage, but also their high amount of healing, what this means is that you need to be able to outlast the demon hunter, attacking the demon hunters face is pretty much meaningless till he is out of soul fragments / lifesteal options, so never choose to go face over clearing a minion from the demon hunters board.
A demon hunter runs a lot of draw, this means that they will reach fatigue much sooner than the average control deck, basically they are the ones that need to win the game before their cards run out, so don't feel bad about skipping a turn of play if they develop nothing on the board after you clear it, they need to win you just need not to lose.
you need to have an answer for their only value card soulciologist malicia.
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
cards that are very good if can find place for them is both kobold stickyfingers and hecklebot (a lot of cards find their strength from their battlecry or from being low curved and easily slowballed and this is where hecklebot shines, don't play it carelessly tho, always be ready for what he can bring it, as a bonus he helps a lot vs other control decks and combo decks, not only ruining their value generation but also putting them 1 step closer to fatique and possibly giving you something to spend one of your 10 cards in your hand on, if it is one of those types of fights.
tldr: play control if you want to beat demon hunter
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
Ye, try to apply this to Control Warlock...
Oddly enough Mo’arg artificier and nether breath healing for 8 damage with lifesteal that can go face is way better healing than anything priest has. The real reason demon hunter and also face hunter are flourishing, is that there is a lack of good control cards for priest and warrior. They both have some new cool tricks like the thief cards from scholomance and the rush/menagerie synergy from dark moon, but both classes are lacking pieces for effective control, specifically mass removal and healing. Control Shaman could even be prominent again, if there was better healing than witches brew.
I completely respect OP’s attempts here and IDEALLY it’s should work... and it does work for other aggro like face (plant) Hunter. I love playing control decks and for the most part this advice is solid against all aggro decks... not just DH. But maybe other than that boring Shaman deck that relies on fatigue as it’s only win condition, it’s so much easier said then done when playing DH specifically. Even Priest, who’s “identity” is AoE, stealing and healing, doesn’t currently have the weapons needed to challenge this hero consistently. Again no offense intended. Just my two cents on this subject based on my experience with the new expansion.
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
Ye, try to apply this to Control Warlock...
Oddly enough Mo’arg artificier and nether breath healing for 8 damage with lifesteal that can go face is way better healing than anything priest has. The real reason demon hunter and also face hunter are flourishing, is that there is a lack of good control cards for priest and warrior. They both have some new cool tricks like the thief cards from scholomance and the rush/menagerie synergy from dark moon, but both classes are lacking pieces for effective control, specifically mass removal and healing. Control Shaman could even be prominent again, if there was better healing than witches brew.
You need Mo'arg Artificer and Nether Breath and the dragon in your hand and minion target... This is 4 mana 3 card setup and you can pull it only twice per game. It's way too inconsistent and inefficient when you need this before turn 5 (when most of the games against Face Hunter ends).
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
Ye, try to apply this to Control Warlock...
Control Warlock has a lot of other draw tools now. They don't have to half-kill themselves with life tap. And has plenty of healing with soul fragments, nether breath, broodmother (two of which can be recycled with plot twist).
The only time I'm really struggling with soul demon hunter in the current meta is if it's the Il'gynoth variant. The amount of burst that can put out is pretty crazy and while I'm spending resources recovering they just murder me.
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
Ye, try to apply this to Control Warlock...
Control Warlock has a lot of other draw tools now. They don't have to half-kill themselves with life tap. And has plenty of healing with soul fragments, nether breath, broodmother (two of which can be recycled with plot twist).
It looks good only on paper, in reality it's highly inconsistent and simply doesn't work. That's why Warlock was the worst class in scholomance meta (despite the fact that all the cards you pointed out were available for several months) and why we haven't seen any viable Control Warlock deck in about 2 years (pretty much since Gul'dan rotated out).
Aggro is now way too effective so damage can't be just stopped like in the old days (with taunts, removals or whatever). The only way to survive their aggression is through an effective and reliable source of healing. If certain class lacks it, it won't be able to form successful control deck. And since Warlock will probably never get one (because reasons...), we won't see such deck from him anymore.
And no, Control Warlock has very few tools to draw (or generate) cards aside from hero power.
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
Played a game of Control Shaman vs Demon Hunter. It took 3x Witch's Brew (~40 healing, not using each one fully) + 2x Tidal Wave, each for ~15 healing, to outlast their massive damage output. I won with like 10 Health or something. Not that many Control decks have access to that much healing. You get ~30 in Warlock with 2x Moarg + Breath, soul fragments and maybe Aranasi. Priest and Warlock have a bit more, but still not enough sometimes. Classes like Mage (the class can play more control-y with Highlander) can't even compete unless they go exactly freeze.
Also don't forget that DH has a 32+ OTK damage setup. With the complete absence of good anti-combo in standard there's not much you can do about that.
You can kill them before they assemble the combo. I feel like the OTK deck is slightly besides this discussion, as combo decks that get to the very end of their deck and put together their 6+ card combo should beat you most times, IMO, unless you kill them first.
Just got to legend using Soul DH, finishing with a 6 win streak.
Overall reasonable advice against DH, but don't expect it to beat DH "damn near every time". (Which to me would be 80%+ or something.)
Along the streak a Hecklebot priest pulled out my Soulshard Lapidary - am I really supposed to be angry about a free 5/5?
A paladin player swept my two consecutive boards with Libram of Justice + Consecration plays... but little did he know I had 22 damage from hand waiting all the time and the boards were just a ruse while I set things up.
If things work just right for the DH, it is incredibly difficult to stop them. This can be obviously said for all top tier decks.
From my experience, currently warrior is your best beat if you want to bully DH. 1) Warrior can go above 30HP at the timing of their choice, including doing so while clearing a board via Risky Skipper. Timing is often key against DH 2) The bomb variant punishes excessive draw and DH draws a good deal (for Soul DH; aggro DH just draws like crazy).
It is very nice to see a thread like this! I'm a warlock player from the very beginning and I've never hated anything in this game as much as DH. I picked up the new control warlock and I specifically set the deck to face dhs but in the end the matchup feels horrible. In my opinion it is not possible to have a "good" matchup against dh playing control warlock(but I really hope to be wrong this time). In the end I decided to start playing demon zoolock and I had a 11 win streak, having beaten dhs everytime
DH desperately needs several nerfs. They are a tier 0 deck with no bad matchups. I have yet to beat a DH in the last 20+ games. I usually just autoconcede vs. them to save time.
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I see a lot of people talking about how they struggle with demon hunter and as a seasoned control and combo player who don't struggle I just wanna give the community of demon hunter oppressed souls an understanding of what it takes to play control and beat demon hunter damn near every time.
An huge part of what makes demon hunter so strong is not only their high damage, but also their high amount of healing, what this means is that you need to be able to outlast the demon hunter, attacking the demon hunters face is pretty much meaningless till he is out of soul fragments / lifesteal options, so never choose to go face over clearing a minion from the demon hunters board.
A demon hunter runs a lot of draw, this means that they will reach fatigue much sooner than the average control deck, basically they are the ones that need to win the game before their cards run out, so don't feel bad about skipping a turn of play if they develop nothing on the board after you clear it, they need to win you just need not to lose.
you need to have an answer for their only value card soulciologist malicia.
HEALING you need healing a lot of healing, the demon hunter burst potential is huge and you should never be below 16 hp versus one for that very reason, taunts don't make you safe
cards that are very good if can find place for them is both kobold stickyfingers and hecklebot (a lot of cards find their strength from their battlecry or from being low curved and easily slowballed and this is where hecklebot shines, don't play it carelessly tho, always be ready for what he can bring it, as a bonus he helps a lot vs other control decks and combo decks, not only ruining their value generation but also putting them 1 step closer to fatique and possibly giving you something to spend one of your 10 cards in your hand on, if it is one of those types of fights.
tldr: play control if you want to beat demon hunter
Ye, try to apply this to Control Warlock...
Oddly enough Mo’arg artificier and nether breath healing for 8 damage with lifesteal that can go face is way better healing than anything priest has. The real reason demon hunter and also face hunter are flourishing, is that there is a lack of good control cards for priest and warrior. They both have some new cool tricks like the thief cards from scholomance and the rush/menagerie synergy from dark moon, but both classes are lacking pieces for effective control, specifically mass removal and healing. Control Shaman could even be prominent again, if there was better healing than witches brew.
I completely respect OP’s attempts here and IDEALLY it’s should work... and it does work for other aggro like face (plant) Hunter. I love playing control decks and for the most part this advice is solid against all aggro decks... not just DH. But maybe other than that boring Shaman deck that relies on fatigue as it’s only win condition, it’s so much easier said then done when playing DH specifically. Even Priest, who’s “identity” is AoE, stealing and healing, doesn’t currently have the weapons needed to challenge this hero consistently. Again no offense intended. Just my two cents on this subject based on my experience with the new expansion.
You need Mo'arg Artificer and Nether Breath and the dragon in your hand and minion target... This is 4 mana 3 card setup and you can pull it only twice per game. It's way too inconsistent and inefficient when you need this before turn 5 (when most of the games against Face Hunter ends).
Control Warlock has a lot of other draw tools now. They don't have to half-kill themselves with life tap. And has plenty of healing with soul fragments, nether breath, broodmother (two of which can be recycled with plot twist).
The only time I'm really struggling with soul demon hunter in the current meta is if it's the Il'gynoth variant. The amount of burst that can put out is pretty crazy and while I'm spending resources recovering they just murder me.
It looks good only on paper, in reality it's highly inconsistent and simply doesn't work. That's why Warlock was the worst class in scholomance meta (despite the fact that all the cards you pointed out were available for several months) and why we haven't seen any viable Control Warlock deck in about 2 years (pretty much since Gul'dan rotated out).
Aggro is now way too effective so damage can't be just stopped like in the old days (with taunts, removals or whatever). The only way to survive their aggression is through an effective and reliable source of healing. If certain class lacks it, it won't be able to form successful control deck. And since Warlock will probably never get one (because reasons...), we won't see such deck from him anymore.
And no, Control Warlock has very few tools to draw (or generate) cards aside from hero power.
This spares you taking pointless harm, and encourages you hold control of the board yourtexasbenefits.
If I'm playing paladin, I need to exaxtly draw attendant into truthseeker into libram of hope, with an amver watcher in between.
And then I still die to 24 damage in the face.
it's great to see someone posting a solution about facing demon hunter rather than complaining about it, thanks for the tips!
Played a game of Control Shaman vs Demon Hunter. It took 3x Witch's Brew (~40 healing, not using each one fully) + 2x Tidal Wave, each for ~15 healing, to outlast their massive damage output. I won with like 10 Health or something. Not that many Control decks have access to that much healing. You get ~30 in Warlock with 2x Moarg + Breath, soul fragments and maybe Aranasi. Priest and Warlock have a bit more, but still not enough sometimes. Classes like Mage (the class can play more control-y with Highlander) can't even compete unless they go exactly freeze.
Also don't forget that DH has a 32+ OTK damage setup. With the complete absence of good anti-combo in standard there's not much you can do about that.
You can kill them before they assemble the combo. I feel like the OTK deck is slightly besides this discussion, as combo decks that get to the very end of their deck and put together their 6+ card combo should beat you most times, IMO, unless you kill them first.
Just got to legend using Soul DH, finishing with a 6 win streak.
Overall reasonable advice against DH, but don't expect it to beat DH "damn near every time". (Which to me would be 80%+ or something.)
Along the streak a Hecklebot priest pulled out my Soulshard Lapidary - am I really supposed to be angry about a free 5/5?
A paladin player swept my two consecutive boards with Libram of Justice + Consecration plays... but little did he know I had 22 damage from hand waiting all the time and the boards were just a ruse while I set things up.
If things work just right for the DH, it is incredibly difficult to stop them. This can be obviously said for all top tier decks.
From my experience, currently warrior is your best beat if you want to bully DH. 1) Warrior can go above 30HP at the timing of their choice, including doing so while clearing a board via Risky Skipper. Timing is often key against DH 2) The bomb variant punishes excessive draw and DH draws a good deal (for Soul DH; aggro DH just draws like crazy).
It is very nice to see a thread like this! I'm a warlock player from the very beginning and I've never hated anything in this game as much as DH. I picked up the new control warlock and I specifically set the deck to face dhs but in the end the matchup feels horrible. In my opinion it is not possible to have a "good" matchup against dh playing control warlock(but I really hope to be wrong this time). In the end I decided to start playing demon zoolock and I had a 11 win streak, having beaten dhs everytime
Lol, thanks for the tips, as if no-one knew you basically need to run tons of heal to beat DH
DH desperately needs several nerfs. They are a tier 0 deck with no bad matchups. I have yet to beat a DH in the last 20+ games. I usually just autoconcede vs. them to save time.