Hearthpwn

Quote from CasmX >>

Your point is not a good one. Saying the game is free is like saying World of Warcraft is free. You might only get the first 20 levels, but it's completely free right? Doesn't cost you a single cent to play. The fact that the other 98% of the game is inaccessible is irrelevant, right? But one big difference between HS and WoW is that WoW doesn't cost 30 bucks a month AND when you do pay their cheaper annual fee, you get access to all of it, not some arbitrary percentage of it.

You say people are upset that they have to grind or pay? That's only partially true. Nobody likes having to grind, yes, but what people are most upset about is that they either have to grind or overpay. Well, that and the fact Blizzard lied to their faces. The game is too just too expensive by literally every single metric you can use to measure. You're either grinding, thereby overpaying with time or you give them cash, thereby overpaying with money. If people are willing to put in 2 hours a day, they should get more out of it. If people are willing to drop 10 bucks a month, they should get WAY more out of it.

~$1 a day or 2 hours to grind is not perfectly reasonable, it's outrageous. Yes, people can spend an hour flipping burgers and make 8 bucks, but what I'm saying is, 8 bucks shouldn't get you 8 packs, it should get you probably double that or more. And if people spend that hour working towards in game rewards instead, they too should probably be getting about double than they currently are as well.

I don't think anyone is arguing that people playing for free should be getting as much out of HS as the people putting money into it. If there are, they're wrong. But the game is overpriced and twisting the reality around to make it sound like a pack of cards is equivalent to a cup of coffee from Starbucks is incredibly disingenuous and ignorant to the actual problem of the game. The actual reality is there are people that do in fact have the time to spend 2 hours playing a game and still do not have the disposable income to spend on it. People work 8, 10, 12+ hour days and still cannot afford to spend a dollar a day on Hearthstone. The fact that they manage to set aside 2 hours a day to play Hearthstone is irrelevant to the fact that they cannot afford to spend an extra 30 dollars a month, and I'd say those people have their priorities perfectly in line.

Stop trying to make it look like this game is affordable when it's blatantly overpriced and not being addressed effectively. On the contrary, people being lied to (though again, as I already stated, I think the continued outrage is unnecessary) and that is what people are getting fed up with it.

 You make it sound like someone is forcing you to do all this. The game is expensive - fine. Then don't pay and stop playing. The reason i gave the Starbucks analogy is because i think 7$ for a coffee is terribly overpriced -> so i simply don't go there. I also think it's ridicolous people spend 500$ for a Luis Viton bag -> so i don't buy it. 1200$ for a freaking phone? No, thanks apple. Simple as that. Can't afford it or think it's too much or whatever you want to call it -> simply stop playing. I agree with you 100% that it's a lot of money for some people. Ok, so you can't afford it - move on. There are so many things in life i can't afford. I don't yell at every single company out there selling stuff out of my price range. Why do you think when it comes to HS this is somehow supposed to be different? This is what the OP was talking about.

Well I for one like playing for free simply to complain and even prove the very point to others of what a bad, unfun, imbalanced game looks like...and thats today's Hearthstone.

No, it wasn't always such a thoroughly sh*t experience it is now...but its a pure RNG clown fiesta at the moment and Blizzard has done nothing to prove this will ever change in the near future.

I get proof of this everything I show a new player this game. They aren't interested like I was with the early expansions whatsoever - and actually have been told the game is retarded and makes no sense due to it's current excessive levels of clusterf*ck rng and powercreep. Especially attempting to use the starting cards they're given.

So no I do not care about HS, will never pay for this garbage experience unless these issues get fixed...which will be never.

Quote from Plahtica >>

Quote from DropDeadCynical >>

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

it's funny that the only argument the shills seem to have left is 'stop talking' and 'go away'

 It's funny that the only argument the complainers seem to have is to call anyone who disagrees with them a shill.

 Dude, how can you say that 100$ every 3-4 months for 60% of the product is not too much? Why are you like this? 

Got a couple of questions for ya:

1. Does your momma buy you packs?

2. If not, do you have any compassion towards people that can't afford these insane and bloated prices?

3. Why defend a multi billion company that doesn't care about letting people have fun?

To conclude, due to the high price of the game, many people grind with aggro decks and high winrate decks since they can only craft a few decks, This in turn brings everyone's experience down. 

Stop being a brownnoser and get some heart dude.

1.  No, I'm F2P

2.  No because I'm F2P so I don't buy packs either.

3.  I'm not defending anything, I'm not saying anything about Blizzard/Activision at all.  I'm saying that this community is fucking terrible, which it is.  Without doubt the absolute worst cesspool of whiny, entitled babies that I have ever had the embarrassment to call myself a part of.

Dude, you are defending them. You're probably a redneck that thinks Medicare for all is also not gud and people should just stop living since they cant afford it. Disgusting.

HS f2p players do seem to be an entitled bunch so I broadly agree with the OP. HS is quite expensive for sure, 3 mega packs per year is more than a WoW sub for the year. That being said, you can still play HS without spending a penny and enjoy the game.

Could you imagine if bars had fp2 play drinkers demanding free drinks from the barman because they were providing company for the paying patrons...? They would stay sober.

To the OP.

You do realise the main reason people are angry is because Blizzard TOLD us that rewards would stay the same or even be improved.
This was to keep the discussion civil as we waited to find out how it would all turn out, despite being skeptical.
It turned out bad. You however completely miss this point (plus the fact that HS is clearly ridiculously expensive), you might have a bit of a case if they hadn't made that promise.

They lied. We're angry. That's it.
(- someone who has bought every pre-order ever and buys 150-200 packs every expansion)

Quote from Plahtica >>

Dude, you are defending them. You're probably a redneck that thinks Medicare for all is also not gud and people should just stop living since they cant afford it. Disgusting.

 Stop making assumptions (you seem to be really bad at it anyway) I'm not even American.

Posts like this is why I wish a downvote option existed. The only one with a toxic entitled attitude here are you yourself. Can't believe you can be so toxic and then complain about others.

You might argue and say that the “free to play friendly” changes they have made are good for the game but you do not realise that these changes should have been in the game anyways. If you want people to have motivation to play the game post-expansion release, you need to have some sort of a fair system for your player base. You also seem to be doubting the way I said “they have gotten greedy over the years” by that i mean the expansions have gotten so much more expensive, it used to be 1 class legendaries +3 whatever neutral legendaries. Right now within the current expansion we have like 20 ? 25 I wouldnt know i havent actually played the game like used to if i have to be honest, but yeah 20 legendaries lets say. 1 free, 1 from first ten packs and also there is Silas which is absolutely viable in every class and deck you make, just like Marinn the Fox and Santhrovas all staple legendaries in every single one of your decks because they are good legendaries and not 8 mana 6-6, 9 mana 5-5, 7 mana 4-4s in some classes. Still that’s like 17 legendaries that I have to grind for or open up and hoard from packs.

The decks went from an average of 1 neutral legendary that can be easily used in any class and maybe a class legendary to an average of 3 legendaries per deck that is if you arent playing a degenerate aggro deck. So what I mean when I say “you know blizzard has been getting stingier and stingier over the years” I mean that the system in general and small integrity changes such as duplication protection and guaranteed legendary in the first 10 packs do help but are sufficient as the times change. 

 

Quote from CasmX >>

Ugh, does anyone else get tired when an argument or debate devolves to 'then just stop playing then.' because the person you're debating can't think of any legitimate counterargument? Can you not see why that would be devastating for the game if people did that and just up and quit? It's been covered in this thread. It's literally a worst case scenario that Blizzard wants to avoid. Blizzard wants to bring more people in, not scare them away. I'm surprised I have to even explain this. Probably a good thing you don't work for Blizzard's PR, lol. Their new logo would become, "Just stop playing". hehehe...okay, jokes aside, that would be one pretty big reason why I think Hearthstone should be different.

Edit: Sorry, my apologies. It's just a really really bad argument to suggest people stop playing the game. I shouldn't have made jokes at your expense. That wasn't very cool.

Clearly didn't get tired enough so you would spare me with your babble. This thread is not about the shortcomings of this game. Or wether or not 120$ is too much for what they offer. My question remains: what else in life can't you afford that is objectively overpriced? I gave a few examples. Do you also parade on their forums and claim how unfair it is you can't buy their luxury product? No, of course you don't. 

Besides, they have been running this business model for years. I am sure they ran the numbers and their predicted income was higher than their predicted churn. Problem with many people is they don't want to realize they wasted half their teenage years on a greedy company and now look for desperate justifications on how they are owed something... That's why i say just quit. Just like i am sure you quit many other things in life that you simply don't like anymore or that are too expensive.

I would agree with you that it's a bad argument if this was the first discussion about Blizzard, ever. But come on man. These outcries have been going on for years. Blizzard does the same thing over and over and over. Either accept youre paying premium prizes for an average product or move on. Same way i will move on from this discussion. I clearly made my point or i will fail to do so no matter what i write.

f2p players are actually the most important players that are critical to the success of any game like this. Without a community whales won't spend any cash. No f2p --> no whales --> no money.

Those "f2p" people is the %90 of the hs's community. What a dumbass opinion lmao.

I've been a F2P player since dropping $100 on standard when it came out. The game stays fun because every expansion I can usually put together 2-4 decks that can get into low platinum and I'm happy with that.  If packs were $0.50 each I'd pay $20 every expansion, get a few more competitive decks per expansion, maybe get into diamond and be perfectly happy with all that.I usually save up ~2k-3k gold before each new expansion drops, so by the time I'm done with my free packs, I have no incentive to drop $20 in the hopes that I get 1-3 cards I want. I accept that this game is for the whales and we all swim in their wake.

I seem to be the exact type of person Blizzard is targeting with these changes, but I'm just going to accept the fact that I'm going to be a little less competitive going forward, but they'll never squeeze more money out of me unless they drop prices for their card packs. The idea of paying the same as in store prices for CCG is ridiculous: there is no physical copy, I can't sell them, can't trade them and if blizzard stops supporting Hearthstone, they all turn into smoke and disappear forever.

Plus Blizzard are a bunch of CCP bootlickers and a hollow shell of the company they used to be, it's no longer a company i inherently want to support.

Yeah, you made your point and I respect your views. I just disagree with them. We aren't talking Prada bags, we're talking Hearthstone and Blizzard. I'm not really a 'bend over and take it' kind of guy when I feel like any company is deliberately trying to screw over their customers.

So how does this translate to other products?  Like, you could divide every product available into roughly two groups

1.  Products that are worth the money (i.e. you will buy them at their current price, either regularly or at least under some circumstances)

2.  Products that are not worth the money (i.e. you would never buy them at their current price but you might at a cheaper price)

I have no idea what products you would put into each group (it doesn't really matter and it's a personal value judgement).  For me, examples of products in group #2 would be Macbooks, Fanta, Sugar Puffs, Audis, golf club membership, Beats headphones, Tony Romas, the list is near infinite.

So in order to avoid "bending over" do I need to go to all of these companies, spam their Twitter feed, spam their Facebook page, post on reddit etc complaining loudly about how I consider their product is too expensive?  Or should I just shrug my shoulders, spend my money on other things instead (things that are in group 1) and just move on with my life?

And if the answer is the latter (and I'm sure for all but the 0.0001% of really crazy people it is the latter) why should it be different for Hearthstone?

Quote from Cataras >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

 

Dear mr. Phylaroi, 

Here is a metaphor to chew on.

There is a man in a house in a land far far way. Living in his own universe he must leave that house, but is reluctant. His supporters think as he himself says he is being unjustifiably removed. The man is very irresponsible, embarks on one lawsuit after another, just to keep him in that house, lies all the time, fires anybody who doesn't do his bidding. He loves his supporters, his target audience. He doesn't care about The Others. Quintessential dictator-style.  Join or get lost. His supporters don't care. They think that he serves them well. Waving flags, standing ready to bully anyone thinking otherwise. The man polarized the land.

Blizzard employs the same tactics. They have a target audience too. Blizzard too doesn't care about The Others. As long as base notions of the target audience is served, they will remain in da house of making revenues. Although here in part the comparison goes wacky (the man will have to leave the house), Blizzard is here to stay with HS, serving those who don't care about skill, balance, fairness, diversity, steep RPS, polarization.... as long as the target audience keep buying packs.

And yes there's lip service to all I've just mentioned, but every expansion The Others will have to put up with the same mindlessness of the target audience. Waving their flags as base notions are met time and again.

So you see, keeping the power, staying in da house of money, the F2p are being seen as free riders, useful idiots, the glue making up the flag waving masses. 

The real issue here is not the F2P 'problem' but the denial of The Others. 

 

 Except you don't have to put up with it.

Exactly. Thats the joy of capitalism. If you don't like the service you're getting here, you're free to move on. If you don't like my product, you move onto the next. If people complain, but my revenue keeps increasing, why would I change anything. If enough people have a problem, and move to a competitor, the company will be forced to change things. That's how a market works. You as an individual don't get to determine what is "good" or "fun", the market decides. 

You guys act like we're playing a Communist, state mandated game, where there is no market. Complain until you're blue in the face, but until it affects the bottom line, noting will change.

Quote from DropDeadCynical >>

Yeah, you made your point and I respect your views. I just disagree with them. We aren't talking Prada bags, we're talking Hearthstone and Blizzard. I'm not really a 'bend over and take it' kind of guy when I feel like any company is deliberately trying to screw over their customers.

So how does this translate to other products?  Like, you could divide every product available into roughly two groups

1.  Products that are worth the money (i.e. you will buy them at their current price, either regularly or at least under some circumstances)

2.  Products that are not worth the money (i.e. you would never buy them at their current price but you might at a cheaper price)

I have no idea what products you would put into each group (it doesn't really matter and it's a personal value judgement).  For me, examples of products in group #2 would be Macbooks, Fanta, Sugar Puffs, Audis, golf club membership, Beats headphones, Tony Romas, the list is near infinite.

So in order to avoid "bending over" do I need to go to all of these companies, spam their Twitter feed, spam their Facebook page, post on reddit etc complaining loudly about how I consider their product is too expensive?  Or should I just shrug my shoulders, spend my money on other things instead (things that are in group 1) and just move on with my life?

And if the answer is the latter (and I'm sure for all but the 0.0001% of really crazy people it is the latter) why should it be different for Hearthstone?

 this...

What's it got to do with you if people complain?  Nothing, that's the answer, I see zero point to this thread tbh.  Not F2P btw, and never complained about any of the recent updates - I just wouldn't go thinking I'm above the average F2Per in any way, bit high horsey and obnoxious.  Also, calling people A-holes? since when was this allowed on here?