Hearthpwn

I've always given credence to the notion that without f2p players, the game would die . . . because without enough opponents to find a game, the people who spend money on the game would stop playing.  I always assumed everyone who used the line about f2p players being a necessity knew this.  Imagine my horror when I realize that some people actually think that this tautology is true independent of the paying players.

Sorry, let me put that a different way.  If there was a way for Blizzard to retain the paying players independent of (or even as a result of) losing all the f2p players, they would do it IN A HEARTBEAT.  The f2p players are only useful to Blizzard as opponents for paying players.  And if anyone starts bringing up the need for balance statistics and feedback, obviously all that is folded in to the statement, so I'll type it again:  The f2p players are only useful to Blizzard as opponents for paying players.  That is why there will always be a discrepancy in which subset of the player base is embraced.

Does anyone remember Ultima Online?  Did you know that game still exists?  As long as there are enough players paying to populate even one server, the game will endure in cash cow status for Origin or whichever company bought them out.  Because Hearthstone is an iterative game instead of an MMO, it probably requires a larger population to keep afloat, but the principle is the same.

By the way, some folks keep making the comment that whales were screwed too by the new reward system.  That is only true if you EITHER play to complete quests and rarely else wise, OR you play in excess of ten hours a day.  There is a huge range in the middle, a range in which I certainly fit, in which those who consistently play a little each day are receiving more gold under the new system.  That is easily calculable, and don't quote others to me to refute it, do the work yourself.  If you run the numbers correctly, you will see there is a huge midrange between the two extremes of playtime in which the expected gold value is higher today than it has ever been.  Don't be a sheep and swallow other people's half-done work.

I have never agreed with an OP more than this one. 

Chill, dude.

As a person who has played this game since as early as the days of Blackrock Mountain (left in witchwood, cameback in schoolomance) I have to say that this game has done nothing but increase in its greediness over the years. I haven't paid that much money to Blizzard, but that's my thing that's what I do. I consider myself as a no life person that is okay with grinding for months to get free content. The only time I bought something was when I bought like a super small bundle that gave you a classic legendary which costed like no money at all so basically a free to play here.

The problem I have with the game, which by the way I only realized this back when Knights Of The Frozen Throne was released, is that this game is always random no matter what. Just like how a doomsayer might spawn from a shredder to lose you the game, Valeera the Hollow was my free legendary which in the end was just a contribution to my progress towards crafting Deathstalker Rexxar. Now even though you might think im an entitled piece of shit and say that "oh bohoo you got 400 dust for free from our everloving company so bad for you" i have to tell you that, i was grinding my ass off for days and days literally working the game by doing arena cycles non-stop and ending my runs at 10-12 wins to get a golden doomguard and 20 dust as my reward, the difference between free 400 dust and 1600 dust is a lot bigger than you would ever think. However such small things would never be realized by the community and especially not by the Pay2Play parts of the community so people never talked about why Blizzard didn't just gave us a chance to choose our free legendary until the time came around and blizzard realized free2play people werent the only parts of community they can pickpocket and getaway with. They realized "oh you know we have been giving the short end of the stick to the free2plays maybe we can do it to p2w players as well", and then the outrage happened. Don't get me wrong im a person that is willing to say that "remove dailies" for the oppurtunity of having no restrictions on daily 100g quota, im quite the no life. But when the game I play all day doesnt reward me for playing the entire day and instead gives me literally nothing in change, I think I have some type of a right to be able to say "this reward track is absolutely trash". Not because that's what it is but because I have a right to express my opinion.

Now you a "higher class person" might disagree with me and see me as some sort of a rat for not paying money and instead would willingly waste hours and hours playing this game but I think that the general way of how they handled the free content they give us is kinda stingy. That being said im a free to play that plays hunter nonstop so my opinion probably doesnt matter in the eyes of the community :)

Blizzard might pretend they've 'heard the community' when they say you're going to get x amount of gold more on the battle pass now but I'd be very suprised if they wern't expecting this way anyway and had a contingency in place before it even kicked off. They're not stupid, they did the math and they knew other people would do the math too. Will any of this effect their buy numbers when it comes to next expansion though? I might be wrong but I doubt it. Infact in many peoples eyes who don't watch twitch or discuss the game on forums they'll probably be the good guys.

The only part of your experience Blizzard care about is keeping you hooked enough to keep playing. Being angry about the game means you care, and if you care you're probably still playing the game. Coca Cola don't care that your teeth are falling out or that you have diabetes, but they care that their drink tastes sweet enough to keep you addicted to that sugary hit. The only way for things to change whether you're a F2P player who doesn't like the battle pass or a 'whale' who's pissed off that they only got 5 legendaries for their $120 is to vote with your feet and your wallets. I'm dubious as to whether enough people are at that point though to make a difference.

I usually buy both preorders and really only like doing dailies and going about life. I play to have fun.

Got to say, as a whale, I'm not overly thrilled with the new system. Especially if that system forces me into a play mode that I usually only dabble in. It's a shame that ranked play will get more XP per hour than casual. I'm also annoyed by the increase in roping by opponents to max out XP.

I've literally resorted to Battle Grounds to combat this. So now I'm back to making less XP per hour in a format I was never really a fan of. I should make level 25 by the end of the weekend, but the grind is becoming real.

Now if I'm not mistaken, the expansion's Achievement points will come from MDF card collecting and Duels. This is lame, as I absolutely abhor Duels. So that is XP I'm possibly missing out on.

That being said, I agree that F2P players should act a little less entitled.

First of all, everybody is complaining, not only free to play!

The fact that Hearthstone is a a free to play game means they need F2P players and that is enough for F2P to be entitled, the fact they pondered and made the 1350 gold over the 6 pack change its an even more proof they NEED people playing even without paying.

What is exactly your problem with people complaining?, so far people complaining only brought you more stuff without any effort from you what so ever.

What is your reasoning for defending Blizzard profits against the longevity of the game? The thing is absolutely no player NEEDS to play the game we can switch to the all so many alternatives(digital ccg) and that is it, Blizzard cannot switch from us, we can switch from Blizzard. We are the players they were ever going to get, paying or not. There are no new players  that are ever going to replace us because the game is old, people that were going to play it heard of it already and maybe even tried it and liked it or not. 

The thing is the rewards track is not really that rewarding, considering we are not even 2 weeks into the expansion and all progression grew to a halt. There is absolutely no sense of progression. 

But its okay you are part of the super niche player base that actually got a better deal of the reward track, playing even less than those that you are so harsh against. You do not feel it because you are not hit by it, you probably lost those gold daily quests anyway so any change in the system makes little difference to you anyway. 

Quote from hs_Dragonborne >>

As a person who has played this game since as early as the days of Blackrock Mountain (left in witchwood, cameback in schoolomance) I have to say that this game has done nothing but increase in its greediness over the years. 

 

 That is simply not true at all. The whole game became better and better for everyone. Duplicate rule, Quests, free Legendarys, one Legendary in the first 10 packs, free packs of new expansions, legendary quest chains, the preorders got way better than they used to be and end of month rewards. they give more to their players than ever before. I do not support everything they do and i think they should upgrade the new pass. But i hate when people are just on the bash wagon and don't tell the truth

Quote from 30Roman >>

First of all, everybody is complaining, not only free to play!

 I am not complaining. 

I really wonder how some people think the world works. I didn't follow the whole debate about their new achievement system but apparently it offers less than promised. I personally think it gave me quite a nice boost as a returning player. The first 25 levels give you a bunch of gold and 2 free legendaries. That's certainly more than i got before. I get that this is inferior to the grindfest of winning merely 30 games per day before but come on. You got time to win (let alone play more than) 30 games a day? But you don't have time for a job to pay for the game? 120 Dollars for an expansion every 4 months equals roughly 1 dollar a day for a game you apparently spend hours to grind on. Get real people. You just want a free justification for your time-consuming hobby. Now you can't even justify it anymore because even on paper it doesn't make sense to spend that much time grinding a game without paying for the content. Feel free to quit. Reason why people complain so much is cause they "can't" quit...

Dear mr. Phylaroi, 

Here is a metaphor to chew on.

There is a man in a house in a land far far way. Living in his own universe he must leave that house, but is reluctant. His supporters think as he himself says he is being unjustifiably removed. The man is very irresponsible, embarks on one lawsuit after another, just to keep him in that house, lies all the time, fires anybody who doesn't do his bidding. He loves his supporters, his target audience. He doesn't care about The Others. Quintessential dictator-style.  Join or get lost. His supporters don't care. They think that he serves them well. Waving flags, standing ready to bully anyone thinking otherwise. The man polarized the land.

Blizzard employs the same tactics. They have a target audience too. Blizzard too doesn't care about The Others. As long as base notions of the target audience is served, they will remain in da house of making revenues. Although here in part the comparison goes wacky (the man will have to leave the house), Blizzard is here to stay with HS, serving those who don't care about skill, balance, fairness, diversity, steep RPS, polarization.... as long as the target audience keep buying packs.

And yes there's lip service to all I've just mentioned, but every expansion The Others will have to put up with the same mindlessness of the target audience. Waving their flags as base notions are met time and again.

So you see, keeping the power, staying in da house of money, the F2p are being seen as free riders, useful idiots, the glue making up the flag waving masses. 

The real issue here is not the F2P 'problem' but the denial of The Others. 

Except you don't have to put up with it.

Quote from Hooghout >>

 

Dear mr. Phylaroi, 

Here is a metaphor to chew on.

There is a man in a house in a land far far way. Living in his own universe he must leave that house, but is reluctant. His supporters think as he himself says he is being unjustifiably removed. The man is very irresponsible, embarks on one lawsuit after another, just to keep him in that house, lies all the time, fires anybody who doesn't do his bidding. He loves his supporters, his target audience. He doesn't care about The Others. Quintessential dictator-style.  Join or get lost. His supporters don't care. They think that he serves them well. Waving flags, standing ready to bully anyone thinking otherwise. The man polarized the land.

Blizzard employs the same tactics. They have a target audience too. Blizzard too doesn't care about The Others. As long as base notions of the target audience is served, they will remain in da house of making revenues. Although here in part the comparison goes wacky (the man will have to leave the house), Blizzard is here to stay with HS, serving those who don't care about skill, balance, fairness, diversity, steep RPS, polarization.... as long as the target audience keep buying packs.

And yes there's lip service to all I've just mentioned, but every expansion The Others will have to put up with the same mindlessness of the target audience. Waving their flags as base notions are met time and again.

So you see, keeping the power, staying in da house of money, the F2p are being seen as free riders, useful idiots, the glue making up the flag waving masses. 

The real issue here is not the F2P 'problem' but the denial of The Others. 

 

 Except you don't have to put up with it.

Quote from LandT >>

Quote from 30Roman >>

First of all, everybody is complaining, not only free to play!

 I am not complaining. 

 I am not complaining. 

Actually I feel the old system of 10 gold per wins have quite a number of flaws.

Causal was never casual as players use meta decks to farm gold on newbies, making it unpleasant experience for them.

Aggro decks are more popular because games are finished fast so you earn gold fast. Whereas control players get penalised because each game ends up taking more than 10 mins. 

You get gold only when you win, which means it is much harder for newbies to earn gold. They can play for hours without earning anything with poor win rates. 

The new system gives xp based on playtime, which eliminates some issues above. Control and aggro gets similar rewards if playing one long game gets similar xp to playing 3 fast games. 

Newbies will still get xp for losing. And there is no point farming newbies on causal mode. 

Sure, the new system just started so it is still experimental and they may have underestimated the time it takes to level up after level 20+, but it just started so give them time to adjust with feedback.

In the long run, if they adjust the xp requirements, I feel xp based on playtime is a better system than gold for wins

What about popularity ? Renown ? Esport ? Parallel economy ?

One player, whatever time he spends on the game, is a mouth, talking about the game, making it live. He is free advertising, base audience for streamers, Twitch (aka Amazon), YouTube, Reddit and amongst others, Hearthpwn.

Hearthstone is not the only CCG, maybe not the funniest (I haven't played many CCG), definitely not the cheapest. What makes his strength is as well as almost all Blizzard games, his community. And every hardcore gamer, whale, cosplayer etc was at one point a newbie, a casual.

You know, it makes me question what humanity sees as important when I see that people are claiming that they are cutting Hearthstone out of their lives now, when you had a huge swath of the community nuking their accounts after how Blizzard absolutely fucked up during the Blitzchung fiasco in October 2019. I bet some people whining about the Tavern Pass were trying to find some way to justify giving Blizzard $80 for a giant 80-pack bundle right after that fiasco. Or even dismiss it entirely.

That is entirely opinion, show me figures and ill be inclined to agree.

Quote from LandT >>

Quote from 30Roman >>

First of all, everybody is complaining, not only free to play!

 I am not complaining. 

 I am