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Meh...really great text to explain why are u defending such a horrible system, but still your math is wrong.
I'm a legend player and used to farm in less than 1h30/40 each day playing aggro decks like Odd pally or Druid or whatever is fast to play and always achieved my 150/160/200 gold daily quest. in 7 days i had 1.120g already. in 4 months 13k+ gold + what bundle or pre order i bought each expansion wich gave me a lot of options to spend my gold on - Adventures - Old packs or just hold the money to spend in another expansion, maybe not even the next one, like rastakan rumble, a horrible expansion that i didn't spend anything on it and saved my gold for the next one totalizing almost 60k gold in two expansions and events...so...no.
ur math is waaaaaaaaaay too wrong.
Great effort for all white knights but that's not what many ppl here are discussing about this trash new system. We want options to spend our gold, i don't care that much for packs of standard every expansion released cause or i buy bundles or pre order or I just play wild and abandon standard that's a shitshow right now.
This new system doesn't give you options, and nobody likes to grind experience. This game, the interface, everything is lookin right now like a FACEBOOK game.
Ah yes, more ''packs'' aside from the latest expansions ones, they are quite useless. Why would anybody playing this game want an Ashes of Outland pack in like way down the road in level 40-50. Lol.
Ad-Hominen attacks on people with different opinions to yours just makes your whole post seem juvenile and it's hard to take seriously.
You clearly grind the game ALOT. Far more than your average person. Yeah, maybe it isn't as good for you but you represent a really small % of the player base.
Liking the new system doesn't make you a 'white knight'. It just means you like the system. If you can't comprehend someone having an opinion that's different to your own then that's your issue and given that this is a digital card game, I would wonder how well you get on with conflict in the real world. Like, if someone at works like an idea and you don't, do you just start attacking and trashing them? Or do you reserve that behaviour for when you're behind a keyboard?
You might have a point but you've articulated it so poorly that it's pretty much just noise. Maybe engage with people and talk to them like they are adults and it might generate some genuine discussion and be a tiny part towards this community maybe steering in one direction on things.
Lots of people may feel the same about the classic pack in brawl. If nothing else it's extra dust? Seeing as AoO is going to be around for another year and a bit though, I'm sure plenty of new players and returning players will benefit from them.
I agree with you on 2 points: Rastakhan was probably the worst expansion, and Im also a wild player like you because Im also not a fan of standard. But my math is not wrong, I have assumed a 50% winrate. If you could beat that, you could get your daily gold much faster for sure. If you are writing an analisys like mine for the community you cant assume extreme winrates.
Im no white knight, and Im certainly not trying to defend Blizzard. I have just stated the facts and did the math. You are welcome.
Though I haven't thought too seriously about it, yet, my hot take on this analysis is that it's based on a lot of unfounded assumptions about player behavior. The OP presents no data to demonstrate that his player profiles approximate reality. You really can't do this kind of analysis without that.
What's needed is to model profiles based on actual player data and to run monte carlo simulations to generate the gold earnings that these profiles might expect. I'm getting the impression that even Blizzard didn't take the time to do that.
What gives you that impression?
I've seen arguments from math showing that the new system is better than the old one, and arguments from math showing that it's worse. However all of these arguments seemed to be coming from the angle that a "casual" player is someone who plays every day and flawlessly completes all quests, and a "hardcore" player is someone who plays every day and flawlessly completes all quests, and also grinds a lot.
This is obviously nonsense. I'm not going to speculate on what proportion of the playerbase play less than that, but there's no way that it isn't significant. And, given how front-loaded the new system is, if there's any debate at all about whether it's better or worse for heavy players, then obviously it's going to be a lot better for light players.
This gives me the impression that Blizzard have absolutely modeled it on actual player data, and come up with a system that is more rewarding for most players (even if it does fall down for some hardcore cohorts like the OP's "farmer" that always belts out 30 wins with an ultra-aggro deck).
True. No one needs 300 gold at once when there isn't an offer for 4 packs for 300 gold in the shop.
They can make different paths - such with fast steps between rewards - 100 - 100 - 100 - OR the case now but with less XP required than the 3x100. Also, paths with gold only instead of packs would be nice too. Let the player choose his path depending on what he wants...
Why do I have the impression that Blizzard hadn't done the proper analysis? Why should I presume otherwise? They haven't shown us their data. They could end this debate quickly if they did. That suggests to me either that they haven't done the work, or it shows that the new system isn't as good for the average player as they claim.
It seems more charitable to conclude that they simply haven't done the proper work.
I figure that the people that are whining about the new awards system never really cared about the rewards, they just wanted farms and bots to do the work for them.
Two points off of this: i) I think you lowballed the average for the Questing Adventurer since they will minmax and reroll 50g quests as much as possible and they will occasionally get friend quests or 100g quests. I think using 60g is a better figure for this purpose. ii) 3 packs at the beginning and a legendary that are frontloaded into the new system used to be given as part of a new expansion launching anyways, now they're baked into the system. So you could subtract their value or add it to the old system total whichever you prefer.
Thanks for the breakdown, but I personally can only see this system as worse. The devs said you wouldn't receive less gold and packs but they've finagled it so you receive a similar value but with less choice and receiving it solely as gold is defintiely better, bar maybe the legendary and epic. I think time will tell how good the system is but I see a lot of people faring worse since some of the weekly quests require you to get 4 wins in an Arena run which players either won't bother with or won't succeed in doing on their first try, thus reducing their net gold. This system isn't an improvement, it's a sidegrade that only improves Bli$$ard's bottom line with the Tavern Pass. They might tweak things a lil due to the outrage but I can't see anything positive coming out of this.
You have a point. But about the quests, you can reroll the ones you dont like, like I reroll the battlegrounds quests because I dont play BG.
XP gain per hour IS NOT 400 exp constructed, 300 exp battlegrounds as announced.
It is around 1/4 less what they said it would be.
You forgot that from now on blizzard will print 25% more cards (170 instead of 135) so we are fucked anyway
Whatever addition somehow f**ks farmers (especially the casual ones) is a very welcome one, imo.
I played two days at the Weekend and I have a Tavern Ticket today in Level 15 . : (
I was able to get 2 new expansion packs normally ( Weekend I'm able to play a bit more compared to weekdays). Sorry, but I don't need to make high-level calculations. This system is completely worst than the old one but most important is they lied to us, they didn't give details for weeks.
C_A_W wrote (post #9) "The system is marginally better for most people which is not enough. HS is already very expensive as compared to other games, we need a lot better rewards or a better dust economy. Blizzard gave us neither.
Don't forget they are going to do mini-sets from now on, so more cards which are good but where is the gold to compensate for the increase in the total price of the game?"
C_A_W, I'd like to ask: Why is marginally better not enough?
In the old system we were able to amass somewhere in the vicinity of 8000 / 9000 gold per Xpac. (Much more of course, if you are a grinder.)
What will these 80 / 90 packs net you? 1 or 2 meta decks, totally made, all 30 cards. Maybe unless you'd like to play an expensive deck.
This is in addition to all the cards you collected in the previous Xpac-cycle. In addition to all the wild cards you still have.
C_A_W, why would blizz give you more than this? Aren't 1 or 2 meta decks per Xpac for free, very reasonable?
If you'd like to be able to play a variety of decks, spend some money on the game you love?
Yes Poghy, thanks so much for taking the time to make your excellent write-up!
I like your calculations. In most parts I totally agree and like the nw system for myself aswell. It feels more rewarding.
About the the gold/dust calculations in the new system I got a slighly improvement:
I would not add all the early rewards to the calculations. For example: the packs from older expansions are not worth 100g, they are for most people outdated and max worth 60-80% than packs from the latest expansion. The free given legandary does not count aswell, because blizzard gave a free legendary for all players in the past aswell.
This makes your calculations a bit worse for the new system.
I like your efford and appreciate that work. Thanks.
Please explain to me how the new system, based purely on time you play, is worst for bots than the one when you need to accually win something. I'm quite sure that noone loves the new system more than bot users.