So I spent money on the mini expansions when I first started playing hearthstone, but went f2p when they moved to 3 expansions a year.
Since that time I have been f2p and have been able to maintain a decent collection, get 80-100 packs every expansion and continue to enjoy the game. I make legend pretty much every time I shoot for it (for example 4 of the last 6 months). So I could have continued to go on like this for as long as hearthstone was a thing.
There were leaked details a while back of what this system would look like. The gold rewards would be nerfed, and basically only people who spent money could open enough packs to compete in standard on opening day.
The most fun I would have in hearthstone would be on release day, opening those packs, trying out the new decks, trying to home brew my own, trying to figure out which crafts were worth it. Balancing the need to earn rewards with the limited resources of a f2p. Was a fun little mental challenge which sparked my interest 3x a year.
If what was said about this new track is accurate. All of this will go out the window with the new system. Even with max rewards, you could open max say 40 packs on opening day which would make competing in standard impossible and depressing. I could limp along in wild, which I may do, I do have quite an extensive collection at this point. But basically, unless this new system is completely different than what was leaked. I am basically unable to play standard competively as a F2P next year (I will still be able to buy 100 packs of the new expansion this time around).
So I am curious what the rest of you think of this. Should a f2p be able to compete by grinding quests and managing resources? Or should we be relegated to being 2nd class citizens and lose out on the pleasure of enjoying release day?
I think it's difficult to figure out the economy of it all at this point. I would like to know how you arrived at the 40 packs?
F2P should definitely be able to compete through grinding. I really hope the new system will accommodate that, but I think it's really hard to evaluate right now, not knowing how the new quests will work, how much experience they will give, how much experience is needed to level up etc.
The "leak" was an puplically available survey wich just had an example. How about you wait until they release all the details before you complain about not having enough of something. Oh, but they did mention that you can infinitely grind 150 gold rewards once you are through all the levels.
Re-cheack to revamp, they explicitly say that under the new system every player could earn more gold and cards than under the current system
Well it's not like they'll say "Yes, we're choosing to fuck F2P or low budget players cause we want more money" if that's the case. There's really no way to know how impactful will this new system be until they release it and you can see the actual rewards you get and how realistic the rewards given are and how much time you have to invest in order to achieve the same amount of rewards that the gold and daily quests system provides (even if you can actually get the same amount). The thing that's definitely true is that F2P players will be affected as they won't be able to open the same amount of packs on Day 1. Cause it definitely is not the same to open let's say 70 packs on day 1 and no more packs for the rest of the expansion (you can get that amount by just saving gold easily) than it is to open no packs on day 1 and get 70 free packs in the 4 months expansion life span.
We don't know what they've done yet. They still haven't released the final details on it so the community can't math the 'ish out of it. For me, the biggest concern would have to be the mid season expansion. I mean that's going to be just over a 25% increase in cards per year. So, we're going to need to see a 25% increase in resources to stay on top of that. And this is a bad deal for pay to play players as well, because presumably we'll have new mid-season pre-order packages to go along with it. I mean, more content is nice and all but I'm not sure that players were screaming for yet more cards. We've already got tons of cards available many of which could be tweaked to be made more viable. I'm not really thrilled for yet another card dump where all but a few are unviable but you still need to be able to dump resources into the addon to stay competitive. My guess is they do increase the resources available to f2p players by the same 25% and of course point out how incredibly generous they are.
Edit: Here's my guess how it's going to look. The f2p rewards track will reward an amount of gold similar to what most players usually arrive at when expansion time rolls around. Say 8000 to maybe as high 10,000. Without paying for the experience boost, you won't be able to earn enough experience points during an expansion to reach beyond the maximum level (50?) and earn those 150g per level rewards. The payoff for the experience boost, if we can buy it with gold, probably won't look very attractive compared to buying it with cash. For cash buyers it probably will look about equivalent to buying a pre-order package. So, on top of gold rewards you'll get packs, cosmetics, and free legendary/epic cards. My guess is the total value of those things will come to about the 25% increase needed for the mid-expansion card addon (the expansion-expansion?). If you assume dust value, 2 legendaries, 2 epics, 15 cards packs is about equal to 2500 dust equivalent.
So I spent money on the mini expansions when I first started playing hearthstone, but went f2p when they moved to 3 expansions a year.
Since that time I have been f2p and have been able to maintain a decent collection, get 80-100 packs every expansion and continue to enjoy the game. I make legend pretty much every time I shoot for it (for example 4 of the last 6 months). So I could have continued to go on like this for as long as hearthstone was a thing.
There were leaked details a while back of what this system would look like. The gold rewards would be nerfed, and basically only people who spent money could open enough packs to compete in standard on opening day.
The most fun I would have in hearthstone would be on release day, opening those packs, trying out the new decks, trying to home brew my own, trying to figure out which crafts were worth it. Balancing the need to earn rewards with the limited resources of a f2p. Was a fun little mental challenge which sparked my interest 3x a year.
If what was said about this new track is accurate. All of this will go out the window with the new system. Even with max rewards, you could open max say 40 packs on opening day which would make competing in standard impossible and depressing. I could limp along in wild, which I may do, I do have quite an extensive collection at this point. But basically, unless this new system is completely different than what was leaked. I am basically unable to play standard competively as a F2P next year (I will still be able to buy 100 packs of the new expansion this time around).
So I am curious what the rest of you think of this. Should a f2p be able to compete by grinding quests and managing resources? Or should we be relegated to being 2nd class citizens and lose out on the pleasure of enjoying release day?
Ftp here, bro i dont see the problem, we are gonna spend the gold we save until 12 november plus the gold we will loot along the way of the rewards track, on April we just spend the gold we earned playing during the whole expansion. Eitherway play some wild with decks you love, competing the old-timers (mostly) and the classic strong combo aggros control and supermemes. As an ftp balancing the need to earn rewards with the limited resources isn't the only thing you can do while you are also a veteran. You earned it to have some WILD fun with that cards.
It all depends on how the new system exactly works and how much stuff you get within a given period of time. The main factor will be how much exp you can expect to make in relation to how much you'll need per level. The main way to make gold, as it seems, is that every level past 50 awards 150g. But there's no comment on how much exp you get through daily/weekly quests, how much exp you get per win/game (if any), how much exp you need to reach Lv 50 and how long it would normally take to get there, and whether exp requirements go up with each level.
It's all speculation for now, but I'm more than a little concerned too. At the very least, as someone already said, I expect the launch day experience to become significantly worse for F2P moving forward, especially with mid-expansions.
The new system might be as rewarding as the current one, but instead of obtaining gold only, you'll get a mix of gold, packs, cards (random legendaries) and cosmetics. until you maxed the battle pass, and exp are translated into gold. I expect that you'll end up making less gold numerically, but get a similar aount of packs out of it. So, you'll make maybe 5000-6000g, and then you can earn another 30-40 packs.
But since you'll (probably) need to save 2800g every time for the mid expansion, it sounds unlikely that you'll have the resources to buy 60-100 packs on launch day without missing mid expansions. If it's even sustainable in the first place. If the system doesn't compensate for that, you might have to decide case by case, whether you even want to get something from the mid expansion.
With the current system, Galakrond's Awakening was already a problem for me, and I eventually decided to skip the last wing, even though I already bought less packs than normal on launch day. 80 packs + 4x700g was more than I could make in 4 months, so I had to cut it to 70 packs + 3x700g.
We'll see how it plays out. It's possible that the new system makes grinding easier and more rewarding than ever. But it's also possible that it could pressure you even more into planning out your resource management and only get the things you absolutely need. F2P will probably always be viable to make it to legend and stay "competitive", as long as there's an affordable deck of 30 cards that you can do well with. Whether you can maintain a decent collection, or get invested in Duels, is another question though.
EDIT: Went back and rewatched the essential parts. Ben Lee said about the 35 cards mini expansion: "we'll be adding them directly to card packs" (of the same expansion, I assume), and they can be crafted on launch. Guess I missed that bit yesterday.
Anyway, if the rarity distiribution is the same as Galakrond's Awakening, it would mean that 27 of 35 cards are 15 commons and 12 rares, and if you wanted to get 2 copies of those (as the budget option), you'd get them within roughly 18-20 additional packs, though it's a lot less if you factor in the ladder rewards (7 rares for Plat 5, extra packs) as well. If you are willing to wait a couple weeks after launch for monthly rewards, you might actually be able to get all the budget cards without purchasing a single extra pack after launch. This would fit with the statement, that you could get the cosmetic expansion coin (for 135 unique cards) without even owning a single legendary (though you'd probably need most epics).
So, the mini expansion isn't quite as demanding as I thought for getting a good amount of cards out of it, and isn't a huge deal for the "budget" version. However, given that distribution of rarity, we'd go from 25 to 29 legendaries per set, and since legendaries are ultimately what turned adventures into very good deals, the prize for a full collection would go up significantly. From a F2P perspective, it's just more legendaries you carefully have to chose from, which is a bummer, but we are already past the point where you can realistically hope to get all of them.
So I am curious what the rest of you think of this. Should a f2p be able to compete by grinding quests and managing resources? Or should we be relegated to being 2nd class citizens and lose out on the pleasure of enjoying release day?
I think you should be relegated to 2nd class citizens and lose out on some of the pleasure of enjoying release day.
F2P players provide the community opponents to fight and new meta. It would be a lonely place without them. But paying customers provide the servers, patches, and new content as well as more opponents to fight and new meta. On some level, paying customers are providing the game that F2P players are enjoying for free.
So F2P players are already 2nd class citizens in that respect. Why should their enjoyment be equal to the paying customer's experience?
So I am curious what the rest of you think of this. Should a f2p be able to compete by grinding quests and managing resources? Or should we be relegated to being 2nd class citizens and lose out on the pleasure of enjoying release day?
I think you should be relegated to 2nd class citizens and lose out on some of the pleasure of enjoying release day.
F2P players provide the community opponents to fight and new meta. It would be a lonely place without them. But paying customers provide the servers, patches, and new content as well as more opponents to fight and new meta. On some level, paying customers are providing the game that F2P players are enjoying for free.
So F2P players are already 2nd class citizens in that respect. Why should their enjoyment be equal to the paying customer's experience?
with this level of elitism&entitlement u wouldn't get it even if some1 would explain it to u...
So I am curious what the rest of you think of this. Should a f2p be able to compete by grinding quests and managing resources? Or should we be relegated to being 2nd class citizens and lose out on the pleasure of enjoying release day?
I think you should be relegated to 2nd class citizens and lose out on some of the pleasure of enjoying release day.
F2P players provide the community opponents to fight and new meta. It would be a lonely place without them. But paying customers provide the servers, patches, and new content as well as more opponents to fight and new meta. On some level, paying customers are providing the game that F2P players are enjoying for free.
So F2P players are already 2nd class citizens in that respect. Why should their enjoyment be equal to the paying customer's experience?
with this level of elitism&entitlement u wouldn't get it even if some1 would explain it to u...
I don't think you should devide the player base between FTP and PTW players like that.
There are players who don't pay any real money, and whales which shell out 100s of € every year, but there is also everything in-between. A paying player can stop spending real money if they don't need/want to, a ftp player can buy a good offer etc. In general, just a big player base should be preferable.
So immediately this is a bit concerning. The first 5 levels to grind, page 1 out of 11, so only 10 more to go, and there is absolutely no gold to be earned in sight. There will be some to get later on, no doubt, however right off the bat this is a very bad start. I would much rather get 300 gold to decide what to use it on, so save up for the next expansion pretty much, than get current expansion packs, which are worth a lot less.
Of course, we don't know how the other pages look yet, so we can't determine how much gold exactly you can get under this new system. But we're gonna get fucked one way or the other, that much is certain knowing Blizzard.
So I am curious what the rest of you think of this. Should a f2p be able to compete by grinding quests and managing resources? Or should we be relegated to being 2nd class citizens and lose out on the pleasure of enjoying release day?
I think you should be relegated to 2nd class citizens and lose out on some of the pleasure of enjoying release day.
F2P players provide the community opponents to fight and new meta. It would be a lonely place without them. But paying customers provide the servers, patches, and new content as well as more opponents to fight and new meta. On some level, paying customers are providing the game that F2P players are enjoying for free.
So F2P players are already 2nd class citizens in that respect. Why should their enjoyment be equal to the paying customer's experience?
F2Ps are paying, but with time instead of money. Time is very valuable to a game like Hearthstone that depends on being able to match players up as fast as possible depending on a number of factors (rank, MMR etc.). Hearthstone needs players who play every day, grinding for gold, otherwise matchmaking would suffer, and people would stop playing.
F2Ps are already denied certain cosmetics and perks. They should be reasonably rewarded for their grind and have a great expansion day just like any paying customer.
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So I spent money on the mini expansions when I first started playing hearthstone, but went f2p when they moved to 3 expansions a year.
Since that time I have been f2p and have been able to maintain a decent collection, get 80-100 packs every expansion and continue to enjoy the game. I make legend pretty much every time I shoot for it (for example 4 of the last 6 months). So I could have continued to go on like this for as long as hearthstone was a thing.
There were leaked details a while back of what this system would look like. The gold rewards would be nerfed, and basically only people who spent money could open enough packs to compete in standard on opening day.
The most fun I would have in hearthstone would be on release day, opening those packs, trying out the new decks, trying to home brew my own, trying to figure out which crafts were worth it. Balancing the need to earn rewards with the limited resources of a f2p. Was a fun little mental challenge which sparked my interest 3x a year.
If what was said about this new track is accurate. All of this will go out the window with the new system. Even with max rewards, you could open max say 40 packs on opening day which would make competing in standard impossible and depressing. I could limp along in wild, which I may do, I do have quite an extensive collection at this point. But basically, unless this new system is completely different than what was leaked. I am basically unable to play standard competively as a F2P next year (I will still be able to buy 100 packs of the new expansion this time around).
So I am curious what the rest of you think of this. Should a f2p be able to compete by grinding quests and managing resources? Or should we be relegated to being 2nd class citizens and lose out on the pleasure of enjoying release day?
I think it's difficult to figure out the economy of it all at this point. I would like to know how you arrived at the 40 packs?
F2P should definitely be able to compete through grinding. I really hope the new system will accommodate that, but I think it's really hard to evaluate right now, not knowing how the new quests will work, how much experience they will give, how much experience is needed to level up etc.
The "leak" was an puplically available survey wich just had an example. How about you wait until they release all the details before you complain about not having enough of something. Oh, but they did mention that you can infinitely grind 150 gold rewards once you are through all the levels.
Re-cheack to revamp, they explicitly say that under the new system every player could earn more gold and cards than under the current system
so looking there is still quests that give you what looks to be basically gold for packs so nothing really changing there
Well it's not like they'll say "Yes, we're choosing to fuck F2P or low budget players cause we want more money" if that's the case. There's really no way to know how impactful will this new system be until they release it and you can see the actual rewards you get and how realistic the rewards given are and how much time you have to invest in order to achieve the same amount of rewards that the gold and daily quests system provides (even if you can actually get the same amount). The thing that's definitely true is that F2P players will be affected as they won't be able to open the same amount of packs on Day 1. Cause it definitely is not the same to open let's say 70 packs on day 1 and no more packs for the rest of the expansion (you can get that amount by just saving gold easily) than it is to open no packs on day 1 and get 70 free packs in the 4 months expansion life span.
They removed gold? Time to quit then.
We don't know what they've done yet. They still haven't released the final details on it so the community can't math the 'ish out of it. For me, the biggest concern would have to be the mid season expansion. I mean that's going to be just over a 25% increase in cards per year. So, we're going to need to see a 25% increase in resources to stay on top of that. And this is a bad deal for pay to play players as well, because presumably we'll have new mid-season pre-order packages to go along with it. I mean, more content is nice and all but I'm not sure that players were screaming for yet more cards. We've already got tons of cards available many of which could be tweaked to be made more viable. I'm not really thrilled for yet another card dump where all but a few are unviable but you still need to be able to dump resources into the addon to stay competitive. My guess is they do increase the resources available to f2p players by the same 25% and of course point out how incredibly generous they are.
Edit: Here's my guess how it's going to look. The f2p rewards track will reward an amount of gold similar to what most players usually arrive at when expansion time rolls around. Say 8000 to maybe as high 10,000. Without paying for the experience boost, you won't be able to earn enough experience points during an expansion to reach beyond the maximum level (50?) and earn those 150g per level rewards. The payoff for the experience boost, if we can buy it with gold, probably won't look very attractive compared to buying it with cash. For cash buyers it probably will look about equivalent to buying a pre-order package. So, on top of gold rewards you'll get packs, cosmetics, and free legendary/epic cards. My guess is the total value of those things will come to about the 25% increase needed for the mid-expansion card addon (the expansion-expansion?). If you assume dust value, 2 legendaries, 2 epics, 15 cards packs is about equal to 2500 dust equivalent.
Ftp here, bro i dont see the problem, we are gonna spend the gold we save until 12 november plus the gold we will loot along the way of the rewards track, on April we just spend the gold we earned playing during the whole expansion. Eitherway play some wild with decks you love, competing the old-timers (mostly) and the classic strong combo aggros control and supermemes. As an ftp balancing the need to earn rewards with the limited resources isn't the only thing you can do while you are also a veteran. You earned it to have some WILD fun with that cards.
no
I just think it's fair, with Duels in mind, that they bring back the old adventures for Gold.
Checking the survey it says 70g per gold level, in the announcement that is changed 100g. So ruffly a 43% increase compared to the survey.
It all depends on how the new system exactly works and how much stuff you get within a given period of time. The main factor will be how much exp you can expect to make in relation to how much you'll need per level. The main way to make gold, as it seems, is that every level past 50 awards 150g. But there's no comment on how much exp you get through daily/weekly quests, how much exp you get per win/game (if any), how much exp you need to reach Lv 50 and how long it would normally take to get there, and whether exp requirements go up with each level.
It's all speculation for now, but I'm more than a little concerned too. At the very least, as someone already said, I expect the launch day experience to become significantly worse for F2P moving forward, especially with mid-expansions.
The new system might be as rewarding as the current one, but instead of obtaining gold only, you'll get a mix of gold, packs, cards (random legendaries) and cosmetics. until you maxed the battle pass, and exp are translated into gold. I expect that you'll end up making less gold numerically, but get a similar aount of packs out of it. So, you'll make maybe 5000-6000g, and then you can earn another 30-40 packs.
But since you'll (probably) need to save 2800g every time for the mid expansion, it sounds unlikely that you'll have the resources to buy 60-100 packs on launch day without missing mid expansions. If it's even sustainable in the first place. If the system doesn't compensate for that, you might have to decide case by case, whether you even want to get something from the mid expansion.
With the current system, Galakrond's Awakening was already a problem for me, and I eventually decided to skip the last wing, even though I already bought less packs than normal on launch day. 80 packs + 4x700g was more than I could make in 4 months, so I had to cut it to 70 packs + 3x700g.
We'll see how it plays out. It's possible that the new system makes grinding easier and more rewarding than ever. But it's also possible that it could pressure you even more into planning out your resource management and only get the things you absolutely need. F2P will probably always be viable to make it to legend and stay "competitive", as long as there's an affordable deck of 30 cards that you can do well with. Whether you can maintain a decent collection, or get invested in Duels, is another question though.
EDIT: Went back and rewatched the essential parts. Ben Lee said about the 35 cards mini expansion: "we'll be adding them directly to card packs" (of the same expansion, I assume), and they can be crafted on launch. Guess I missed that bit yesterday.
Anyway, if the rarity distiribution is the same as Galakrond's Awakening, it would mean that 27 of 35 cards are 15 commons and 12 rares, and if you wanted to get 2 copies of those (as the budget option), you'd get them within roughly 18-20 additional packs, though it's a lot less if you factor in the ladder rewards (7 rares for Plat 5, extra packs) as well. If you are willing to wait a couple weeks after launch for monthly rewards, you might actually be able to get all the budget cards without purchasing a single extra pack after launch. This would fit with the statement, that you could get the cosmetic expansion coin (for 135 unique cards) without even owning a single legendary (though you'd probably need most epics).
So, the mini expansion isn't quite as demanding as I thought for getting a good amount of cards out of it, and isn't a huge deal for the "budget" version. However, given that distribution of rarity, we'd go from 25 to 29 legendaries per set, and since legendaries are ultimately what turned adventures into very good deals, the prize for a full collection would go up significantly. From a F2P perspective, it's just more legendaries you carefully have to chose from, which is a bummer, but we are already past the point where you can realistically hope to get all of them.
They DELAYED DELIVERY of gold.
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
I think you should be relegated to 2nd class citizens and lose out on some of the pleasure of enjoying release day.
F2P players provide the community opponents to fight and new meta. It would be a lonely place without them. But paying customers provide the servers, patches, and new content as well as more opponents to fight and new meta. On some level, paying customers are providing the game that F2P players are enjoying for free.
So F2P players are already 2nd class citizens in that respect. Why should their enjoyment be equal to the paying customer's experience?
with this level of elitism&entitlement u wouldn't get it even if some1 would explain it to u...
I don't think you should devide the player base between FTP and PTW players like that.
There are players who don't pay any real money, and whales which shell out 100s of € every year, but there is also everything in-between. A paying player can stop spending real money if they don't need/want to, a ftp player can buy a good offer etc. In general, just a big player base should be preferable.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
can you provide the source please?
So immediately this is a bit concerning.
The first 5 levels to grind, page 1 out of 11, so only 10 more to go, and there is absolutely no gold to be earned in sight.
There will be some to get later on, no doubt, however right off the bat this is a very bad start.
I would much rather get 300 gold to decide what to use it on, so save up for the next expansion pretty much, than get current expansion packs, which are worth a lot less.
Of course, we don't know how the other pages look yet, so we can't determine how much gold exactly you can get under this new system.
But we're gonna get fucked one way or the other, that much is certain knowing Blizzard.
well said lol but according to sum elitist ... (u fill in the blanks) we kinda deserve it :
"So F2P players are already 2nd class citizens in that respect. Why should their enjoyment be equal to the paying customer's experience?"
F2Ps are paying, but with time instead of money. Time is very valuable to a game like Hearthstone that depends on being able to match players up as fast as possible depending on a number of factors (rank, MMR etc.). Hearthstone needs players who play every day, grinding for gold, otherwise matchmaking would suffer, and people would stop playing.
F2Ps are already denied certain cosmetics and perks. They should be reasonably rewarded for their grind and have a great expansion day just like any paying customer.