Druid was tier 1, but that wasn't the issue. The issue were the games where it did win, they were so swingingly in the Druid's direction unfun that the game just ground to a halt and became a "oh guardian animals turn 3 GG" fest.
Why hunter has been allowed to be tier 0 for so long I have no idea.
Face Hunter does not need a nerf. It's a necessary evil.
Guardian Animals can single-handily tip the Druid in it's favour for the rest of the match if put down early, and that happens alot of the time. The nerf lowers the card's winrate when played.
Yeah, I don't know how you nerf hunter. It's just a really good deck right now. There's no one card in it that's super OP. I'm sure somebody will say Voracious Reader, but go ahead and nerf it. It's really just a card that allows the hunter to pull one out at the end versus a tight match against control. Usually though I've already put the match away 9 times out of 10 when I'm thinking about Voracious Reader. I played a lot of Face Hunter during this expansion and the last. The current deck is way faster than the last expac version with Toxic Reinforcements and Imprisoned Felmaw. I remember facing Murloc Paladin last expac and thinking, "Wow now this deck is way faster than my Face Hunter, lol." I also got rekt by Priest and Warriors while walking all over Mage. Now, Priest and Warrior still isn't a great match up for me, but I don't feel total despair when I match with them. I can definitely beat those decks. Mage on the other hand is way better...I still beat it most of the time, but it's a lot tougher match up. The secrets in the deck are also really powerful against the current meta of cheating out gigantic minions for low cost (Guardian Animals, Libram of Hope, Janice, etc). Again, I don't think the deck is super OP. It just matches up really well in the current Paladin/Druid/Druid/Paladin/Priest/Druid/Paladin meta.
Face Hunter was prevalent in part because there were so many Druids and Face Hunter had a positive win rate against Druid. The nerf to GA ought to reduce the number of Druids, which should have the effect of increasing the Soul Demon Hunters, since Druid was one of Soul DH's main counters. Soul DH counters Face Hunter. So I think Team 5 is guessing that nerfing one of Druid's key cards (and one of Hunter's non-key cards, lol) will have an ancillary result of Face Hunter being kept in check by an increase in Soul DH.
Pure/Libroom Paladin had a positive win rate against Soul DH, Face Hunter and Druid, at least outside of top legend. But Paladin is countered by Cyclone/Reno Mage, and it's reasonable to guess that these Mages will increase with the decrease in Druids (since Druid had a positive win rate against Cyclone/Reno Mage).
In short, nerfing Druid alone might end up being sufficient to keep Face Hunter and (maybe to a lesser extent) Paladin in check by virtue of natural counters to those decks rising in popularity.
Title. They nerf mage (I understand) but then druid? Was Guardian Druid even considered a top tier 1 deck?
If you understood anything about game design you wouldn't be the author of this topic.
Before you say "nerf priest" asks yourself what class is the strong control package now? And if you remove a strong control deck which control deck will replace it?
Is this a serious thread? First of all, priest has been nerfed 2 times already and its not even tier 1 so I dont know why people want to keep going through this. Secondly, I just want to say. DECKS ARE ALLOWED TO BE GOOD. CLASSES AND CARDS ARE ALLOWED TO BE GOOD. Saying a deck is broken with no statistical evidence is just being ignorant. paladin and hunter are fine but druid swingy nature needed to be toned down. If you watch any pros stream druid, you can easily twll how uninteresting and UNINTERACTIVE it can be
Title. They nerf mage (I understand) but then druid? Was Guardian Druid even considered a top tier 1 deck?
If you understood anything about game design you wouldn't be the author of this topic.
Before you say "nerf priest" asks yourself what class is the strong control package now? And if you remove a strong control deck which control deck will replace it?
Is this a serious thread? First of all, priest has been nerfed 2 times already and its not even tier 1 so I dont know why people want to keep going through this. Secondly, I just want to say. DECKS ARE ALLOWED TO BE GOOD. CLASSES AND CARDS ARE ALLOWED TO BE GOOD. Saying a deck is broken with no statistical evidence is just being ignorant. paladin and hunter are fine but druid swingy nature needed to be toned down. If you watch any pros stream druid, you can easily twll how uninteresting and UNINTERACTIVE it can be
Priest? I never mentioned priest. Unless you're replying to someone in the thread but you statement seems like one directed to the OP. Not sure what you're on about.
Given Blizzard's recent trent of nerfing cards that allowed for HUGE swing turns (first DQA and the Rogue Galakrond, now also GA), I am surprise Mage (Apprentice) was left untouched. Playing Apprentice, followed by 5 spells, followed by Cyclone, followed by 3 more spells, followed by evocation, followed by another 5 spells, followed by a couple of 0-mana 8/8s is exactly the kind of huge swing turns that for example Galakrond Rogue used to do and was nerfed for that
combo decks are the only problem in the game, not aggro decks.
Not sure if you are serious, but this is the worst thing about hs players and developers listning to them. A card game SHOULD have good aggro decks, combo decks, control decks, tempo decks, midrange decks etc. If a meta has everything then it's a good balance.
You do not decide what's "fun" or not, because it's d7fferent from person to person. I can't stand playing with or against aggro but I don't cry for nerfs everytime there is a somewhat good aggro deck.
combo decks are the only problem in the game, not aggro decks.
Not sure if you are serious, but this is the worst thing about hs players and developers listning to them. A card game SHOULD have good aggro decks, combo decks, control decks, tempo decks, midrange decks etc. If a meta has everything then it's a good balance.
You do not decide what's "fun" or not, because it's d7fferent from person to person. I can't stand playing with or against aggro but I don't cry for nerfs everytime there is a somewhat good aggro deck.
I don't think he was being serious. The alternative is too awkward, lol.
You can't really nerf Face Hunter, unless you literally nerfe a bunch of cards. Such decks will always be around, you nerf some card, they just put Wolfrider in. This won't work. For Face Hunter to be irrelevant it's other decks to be able to combat it.
There are metas, where Face decks are trash and metas, where it's good. It has nothing to do with the overall power ceiling of the deck, it's down to meta.
Even though I don't play it I hunter is a fine deck . It has no cards or plays that feel unanswerable and most decks can fit in a khartut defender or 2 to help counter it. Only card that feels cheaty and bad is Voracious Reader.
Title. They nerf mage (I understand) but then druid? Was Guardian Druid even considered a top tier 1 deck?
combo decks are the only problem in the game, not aggro decks.
Druid was tier 1, but that wasn't the issue. The issue were the games where it did win, they were so swingingly in the Druid's direction unfun that the game just ground to a halt and became a "oh guardian animals turn 3 GG" fest.
Why hunter has been allowed to be tier 0 for so long I have no idea.
CRUISIN YEEEAH! CRUISIN USA!
Hunter has nothing to be nerfed but priest does and druid does and paladin does they’re all broken
Still waiting for the Kill command HoF
Hunter got nerfed. Guardian Animals is a hunter card too lol
lol yeah but not really in a relevant way.
Face Hunter does not need a nerf. It's a necessary evil.
Guardian Animals can single-handily tip the Druid in it's favour for the rest of the match if put down early, and that happens alot of the time. The nerf lowers the card's winrate when played.
Yeah, I don't know how you nerf hunter. It's just a really good deck right now. There's no one card in it that's super OP. I'm sure somebody will say Voracious Reader, but go ahead and nerf it. It's really just a card that allows the hunter to pull one out at the end versus a tight match against control. Usually though I've already put the match away 9 times out of 10 when I'm thinking about Voracious Reader. I played a lot of Face Hunter during this expansion and the last. The current deck is way faster than the last expac version with Toxic Reinforcements and Imprisoned Felmaw. I remember facing Murloc Paladin last expac and thinking, "Wow now this deck is way faster than my Face Hunter, lol." I also got rekt by Priest and Warriors while walking all over Mage. Now, Priest and Warrior still isn't a great match up for me, but I don't feel total despair when I match with them. I can definitely beat those decks. Mage on the other hand is way better...I still beat it most of the time, but it's a lot tougher match up. The secrets in the deck are also really powerful against the current meta of cheating out gigantic minions for low cost (Guardian Animals, Libram of Hope, Janice, etc). Again, I don't think the deck is super OP. It just matches up really well in the current Paladin/Druid/Druid/Paladin/Priest/Druid/Paladin meta.
Face Hunter was prevalent in part because there were so many Druids and Face Hunter had a positive win rate against Druid. The nerf to GA ought to reduce the number of Druids, which should have the effect of increasing the Soul Demon Hunters, since Druid was one of Soul DH's main counters. Soul DH counters Face Hunter. So I think Team 5 is guessing that nerfing one of Druid's key cards (and one of Hunter's non-key cards, lol) will have an ancillary result of Face Hunter being kept in check by an increase in Soul DH.
Pure/Libroom Paladin had a positive win rate against Soul DH, Face Hunter and Druid, at least outside of top legend. But Paladin is countered by Cyclone/Reno Mage, and it's reasonable to guess that these Mages will increase with the decrease in Druids (since Druid had a positive win rate against Cyclone/Reno Mage).
In short, nerfing Druid alone might end up being sufficient to keep Face Hunter and (maybe to a lesser extent) Paladin in check by virtue of natural counters to those decks rising in popularity.
If you understood anything about game design you wouldn't be the author of this topic.
Before you say "nerf priest" asks yourself what class is the strong control package now? And if you remove a strong control deck which control deck will replace it?
It’ll think this meta is as close to a “balance” meta we will get tbh
Is this a serious thread? First of all, priest has been nerfed 2 times already and its not even tier 1 so I dont know why people want to keep going through this. Secondly, I just want to say. DECKS ARE ALLOWED TO BE GOOD. CLASSES AND CARDS ARE ALLOWED TO BE GOOD. Saying a deck is broken with no statistical evidence is just being ignorant. paladin and hunter are fine but druid swingy nature needed to be toned down. If you watch any pros stream druid, you can easily twll how uninteresting and UNINTERACTIVE it can be
I never even mentioned priest smh.
Priest? I never mentioned priest. Unless you're replying to someone in the thread but you statement seems like one directed to the OP. Not sure what you're on about.
Given Blizzard's recent trent of nerfing cards that allowed for HUGE swing turns (first DQA and the Rogue Galakrond, now also GA), I am surprise Mage (Apprentice) was left untouched. Playing Apprentice, followed by 5 spells, followed by Cyclone, followed by 3 more spells, followed by evocation, followed by another 5 spells, followed by a couple of 0-mana 8/8s is exactly the kind of huge swing turns that for example Galakrond Rogue used to do and was nerfed for that
Not sure if you are serious, but this is the worst thing about hs players and developers listning to them. A card game SHOULD have good aggro decks, combo decks, control decks, tempo decks, midrange decks etc. If a meta has everything then it's a good balance.
You do not decide what's "fun" or not, because it's d7fferent from person to person. I can't stand playing with or against aggro but I don't cry for nerfs everytime there is a somewhat good aggro deck.
I don't think he was being serious. The alternative is too awkward, lol.
You can't really nerf Face Hunter, unless you literally nerfe a bunch of cards. Such decks will always be around, you nerf some card, they just put Wolfrider in. This won't work. For Face Hunter to be irrelevant it's other decks to be able to combat it.
There are metas, where Face decks are trash and metas, where it's good. It has nothing to do with the overall power ceiling of the deck, it's down to meta.
Even though I don't play it I hunter is a fine deck . It has no cards or plays that feel unanswerable and most decks can fit in a khartut defender or 2 to help counter it. Only card that feels cheaty and bad is Voracious Reader.