It has the highest win rate, that doesn’t mean that it is the best deck.
I'm genuinely not being sarcastic, but what other metric could measure what is the "best deck" if not win rate?
IMO the high win rate of Paladin in these early days of the Scholomance meta is skewed due to some reasons:
1) It has a good matchup against Druid, which everyone was playing during the first days. Now that people realize that Druid does not always get the perfect curve it is played a lot less.
2) The deck sort of builds itself. Some slots are up for debate but most picks are obvious. Compare this to the Cyclone Mage that went through quite some iterations already and is probably still not optimal or the numerous Rogue builds that are out there.
3) The deck has a quite linear play style. I’m not saying it doesn’t require any skill at all but on average it has less decision points than other decks. High skill cap decks such as Patron Warrior probably didn’t have the highest win rate back then, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a tier 1 deck and was therefore nerfed.
I'm not sure I agree that points 1 and 2 are good explainations for why win rate isn't a metric for the "best deck" but I totally accept point 3.
I hadn't really considered that the best deck in the hands of the masses (i.e. the people who generate the data for the win rate statistic) might just represent the easiest deck to pilot well while being used by a large number of people.
paladin maybe deserve some nerfs on his buffs ... but idk because his classic set are going to be reworked ( once we see the new mecanics/power on his core set we can actually complain without backfire our face ) .
Imo paladin is strong indeed but is a problem if you dont tech/play around his minions and buffs , im happy to see uther/arthas on ladder.
I'm in the top 1000 legend now (barely) and I can tell you Libram Paladin is not even close to Tier 1. I've been playing it for a week now and it is very hard to gain ranks.
I appreciate the story is different at lower ranks. But the deck is not oppressive and can be easily countered. It does not need to be nerfed.
Pure paladin is currently the #1 deck in top 1000 legend according to the data on Hearthstonetopdecks, which is essentially just another form of Libram Paladin. On HSreplay, Libram Paladin is also listed as #1 in the current meta. If you are playing libram and not performing well, my guess is you're just not playing it right. Either that or you don't quite understand what it means for a deck to be Tier 1. IE: At high ranks, Tier 1 decks doesn't necessarily mean easy ranks. Either way, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but Libram Paladin is absolutely viable in high legend. Not only is it Tier 1 but is the current best deck in the meta. I'm not intending this to be rude or condescending, but from what I can tell, based on the data, you're incorrect.
That being said, that doesn't necessarily mean it needs a nerf but I would argue it at least merits looking into. There's always going to be a best deck and perfect balance is impossible in a game like this. Pure Paladin/Libram Paladin is definitely beatable and counterable. It's just, vs most of the other popular decks currently being played, paladin has the edge.
Libram Paladin is currently listed at the top of tier 2 on HSreplay at top 1000 legend with 4 archetypes above it. The winrates are very close, though, so it is absolutely viable. With 16 (!) different archetypes above 50% and the highest one (Malygos druid) barely above 52%, this is one of the most balanced states the game has ever been in.
Interrestingly, Libram paladin seems to go up in tiers as you go down in ranks.
As I said, top players know to counter it, eventually, the rest will too.
Pure Paladin is pretty easy to beat. U just have to hold on to your hard removal to use against their big minions and make sure u kill every minion that they play even the hero power. Also since Pure paladin still has very little in terms of AOE's going wide and playing aggressive and making them react definitely swings the game in your favor.
For me the 2 manas 11/13 is the only really problematic card, it is way too undercosted for what he does, 3 manas and problem solved, the rest is strong but have the weakness of all buffs in card games, if opponent can deal the buffed minion with a single card they have the card and tempo advantage.
2. Put in the following cards: devolving missiles, polymorph, the amazing Reno, spellbender
3. Fill the rest of the deck with good cards, go Highlander if you want
4. Eat paladins for breakfast, lunch and dinner
Lose to other stuff more often. Besides, a good paladin player can still beat you.
What other stuff?
My Highlander mage is performing pretty well against the overall field at d5-1. Bomb warrior is probably the worst matchup, but still winnable.
I honestly wouldn't know what to drop to include spellbender. Highlander mage is a weak match up to libram paladin at 43%. All the paladins I play against don't over extend and only field enough threat to force removal, and rarely drop both recurring buffs on one target. They often get them back via their legendary. I've played bad players on libram who overextend or stack buffs at d5 - d1, but if they play well it's not a simple matchup.
Also, now that they run consecration with the equality libram, they can often snuff out your win condition (highlander mage doesn't really have that many resources), and generate value to apply late game pressure. I often draw my polymorph late (or devolving), and if they're dropping cost reduced divine shield threats, you can find yourself in a sticky situation. It is beatable though, and I in no way expect a nerf, to be clear.
We're all just gonna ignore Goody Two-Shields being the best Curvestone 3-drop in the game and Argent Braggart being the strongest minion on the board for 2 mana. Okay Hearthpwn.
FWIW - looking at the HSReplays numbers, there are no "counters" to the deck. Among the twenty most-played decks on ladder, the Paladin build has 18 match-ups in the green. It bottoms out against Rogue, with a 46% win-rate against each of the two most-popular decks in the class. Folks can decide for themselves if this represents a balanced meta-game . . .
Even if you don't run these cards you can easily generate them with Sethekk Veilweaver or Invoke/Galakrond hero power.
And in turn Priest gets destroyed by any low curve deck, which is the majority of the meta rn. Not really a good trade-off if you ask me
A low curve deck should also be able to easily win vs Paladin. Because a lot of lists don't even run Consecration anymore. And no board presence for paladin, means no win.
PALADIN, PRIEST & DRUID ALL NEED WORK ALL UNBALANCED. MORE TESTING IS NEEDED BEFORE NEW SETS ARE RELEASED
Are you sure you just don't like decks being good? Saying a third of the decks are unbalanced seems...odd. Especially since it ignores what may be the best deck in the meta, bomb warrior, as well as stealth rogue being able to mulch priest and paladin fairly reliably. Sure, the other classes aren't as strong, but if we're calling for nerfs to 3-4 classes, it's not an issue of them being OP, rather the other classes needing a buff or two.
I'm not sure I agree that points 1 and 2 are good explainations for why win rate isn't a metric for the "best deck" but I totally accept point 3.
I hadn't really considered that the best deck in the hands of the masses (i.e. the people who generate the data for the win rate statistic) might just represent the easiest deck to pilot well while being used by a large number of people.
paladin maybe deserve some nerfs on his buffs ... but idk because his classic set are going to be reworked ( once we see the new mecanics/power on his core set we can actually complain without backfire our face ) .
Imo paladin is strong indeed but is a problem if you dont tech/play around his minions and buffs , im happy to see uther/arthas on ladder.
before he becomes problematic LUL. tell that to Barnes getting nerfed one year after rotating out of standard
I'm in the top 1000 legend now (barely) and I can tell you Libram Paladin is not even close to Tier 1. I've been playing it for a week now and it is very hard to gain ranks.
I appreciate the story is different at lower ranks. But the deck is not oppressive and can be easily countered. It does not need to be nerfed.
Pure paladin is currently the #1 deck in top 1000 legend according to the data on Hearthstonetopdecks, which is essentially just another form of Libram Paladin. On HSreplay, Libram Paladin is also listed as #1 in the current meta. If you are playing libram and not performing well, my guess is you're just not playing it right. Either that or you don't quite understand what it means for a deck to be Tier 1. IE: At high ranks, Tier 1 decks doesn't necessarily mean easy ranks. Either way, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but Libram Paladin is absolutely viable in high legend. Not only is it Tier 1 but is the current best deck in the meta. I'm not intending this to be rude or condescending, but from what I can tell, based on the data, you're incorrect.
That being said, that doesn't necessarily mean it needs a nerf but I would argue it at least merits looking into. There's always going to be a best deck and perfect balance is impossible in a game like this. Pure Paladin/Libram Paladin is definitely beatable and counterable. It's just, vs most of the other popular decks currently being played, paladin has the edge.
Libram Paladin is currently listed at the top of tier 2 on HSreplay at top 1000 legend with 4 archetypes above it. The winrates are very close, though, so it is absolutely viable. With 16 (!) different archetypes above 50% and the highest one (Malygos druid) barely above 52%, this is one of the most balanced states the game has ever been in.
Interrestingly, Libram paladin seems to go up in tiers as you go down in ranks.
As I said, top players know to counter it, eventually, the rest will too.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Libram Paladin is a noob killer like Rez Priest, high winrate at bronze and low winrate at high legend.
Pure Paladin is pretty easy to beat. U just have to hold on to your hard removal to use against their big minions and make sure u kill every minion that they play even the hero power. Also since Pure paladin still has very little in terms of AOE's going wide and playing aggressive and making them react definitely swings the game in your favor.
For me the 2 manas 11/13 is the only really problematic card, it is way too undercosted for what he does, 3 manas and problem solved, the rest is strong but have the weakness of all buffs in card games, if opponent can deal the buffed minion with a single card they have the card and tempo advantage.
135 card each expansion...c'mon dude. Git gud
I can't remember the last time Paladin had an even remotely competitive deck. Honestly don't think it needs to be nerfed.
If you're sick of running into them tech in Tink Master, Owl, sap or polymorph type effects.
The card which seems really good (but not broken) is goodie two shields if they drop it on turn 2/3 as it is so hard to remove.
I honestly wouldn't know what to drop to include spellbender. Highlander mage is a weak match up to libram paladin at 43%. All the paladins I play against don't over extend and only field enough threat to force removal, and rarely drop both recurring buffs on one target. They often get them back via their legendary. I've played bad players on libram who overextend or stack buffs at d5 - d1, but if they play well it's not a simple matchup.
Also, now that they run consecration with the equality libram, they can often snuff out your win condition (highlander mage doesn't really have that many resources), and generate value to apply late game pressure. I often draw my polymorph late (or devolving), and if they're dropping cost reduced divine shield threats, you can find yourself in a sticky situation. It is beatable though, and I in no way expect a nerf, to be clear.
We're all just gonna ignore Goody Two-Shields being the best Curvestone 3-drop in the game and Argent Braggart being the strongest minion on the board for 2 mana. Okay Hearthpwn.
FWIW - looking at the HSReplays numbers, there are no "counters" to the deck. Among the twenty most-played decks on ladder, the Paladin build has 18 match-ups in the green. It bottoms out against Rogue, with a 46% win-rate against each of the two most-popular decks in the class. Folks can decide for themselves if this represents a balanced meta-game . . .
You eat them easily as priest
Libram of Hope, Bragart and Authority are counterable with: Shadow Word: Death, Time Rip, Aeon Reaver, Natalie Seline, Plague of Death, Mass Dispel, Shadow Word: Ruin, Mind Control, Galakrond, Azeroth's End and then there's also all the combos you can do with Wave of Apathy
Even if you don't run these cards you can easily generate them with Sethekk Veilweaver or Invoke/Galakrond hero power.
And in turn Priest gets destroyed by any low curve deck, which is the majority of the meta rn. Not really a good trade-off if you ask me
A low curve deck should also be able to easily win vs Paladin. Because a lot of lists don't even run Consecration anymore. And no board presence for paladin, means no win.
PALADIN, PRIEST & DRUID ALL NEED WORK ALL UNBALANCED. MORE TESTING IS NEEDED BEFORE NEW SETS ARE RELEASED
Are you sure you just don't like decks being good? Saying a third of the decks are unbalanced seems...odd. Especially since it ignores what may be the best deck in the meta, bomb warrior, as well as stealth rogue being able to mulch priest and paladin fairly reliably. Sure, the other classes aren't as strong, but if we're calling for nerfs to 3-4 classes, it's not an issue of them being OP, rather the other classes needing a buff or two.
lightforged zealot: cant attack heroes this turn.
authority : 6/6 taunt lifesteal